Hybrid compatibility in next patch

Gan Xing

For those crazy off meta fighters like me,

Do you think next patch will provide any changes to hybrid builds? If so, what do you recommend?

If not, what are solid Hybrid builds that you have come across?

Countcalorie

not really.Hybrids have allways been the worst of the niche builds in my experience.

_Salty_

I will be trying innate Axiom next patch on my stamblade tank pvp and pve. This set is built for night blades since they have every class skill you could ask for.

Stam and mag morphs of:

Class gap closer
Class execute
Class spammable.
Class ults

Plus access to

Major sorcery and brutality from sap essence
Minor mending
Minor berserk
Increase crit % and damage

Its worth a try at least, how effective it will be remains to be seen.

Azurya

I will definetely give it a try with Innate Axiom and with Mechanical Acuity, the build I am working on runs now with Daedric Trickery and Shacklebreaker, due to lvling issues and doing this I try develop the build all new.

Gan Xing

From my experiences with PTS, I haven't yet found a good Axiom combo set... I should prolly try harder

Gan Xing

Countcalorie wrote: »

not really.Hybrids have allways been the worst of the niche builds in my experience.

They are, but I'd rather a extremely difficult niche build than blindly follow the meta

Grim13

I miss my hybrid build from 1.5... ahhh, those were the days.

Gan Xing

Grim13 wrote: »

I miss my hybrid build from 1.5... ahhh, those were the days.

Lol If only I wasn't so stubborn about sticking to my NB (which I was terrible at)

Gorrest

Have a Hybrid DK build in the works for next patch(Testing on PTS), the only issue is stopped me doing running this patch is I have to get VDSA dual wield axes which you cant get this patch. So I have to wait till that comes.

But so far, its going good. In duels its working very nicely. Will post my stats soon.

Vapirko

I’ve been running a semi hybrid stam sorc using SB and ice staff. It’s not bad, useful for keep defense because I can utilize wall of elements to Slow people and the destro ult is strong even with only 18k mag. Although when vma nerfs come it’s gonna ruin some of my spell damage. It’s hard though. Sustain is difficult because it’s not a burst build but sustain has to come from heavy attacks so it’s not well suited to open world 1vX situations. It’s just really hard to build into both mag and stam and damage and sustain. It almost requires you to run proc damage sets.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Gan Xing wrote: »

Countcalorie wrote: »

not really.Hybrids have allways been the worst of the niche builds in my experience.

They are, but I'd rather a extremely difficult niche build than blindly follow the meta

Your using blindly follows wrong. It implies that the meta might be suboptimal to any other setup and thus you want to discover the best.
If you want to run suboptimal gear it's your choice but you won't discover the new bis that way.

Gan Xing

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Countcalorie wrote: »

not really.Hybrids have allways been the worst of the niche builds in my experience.

They are, but I'd rather a extremely difficult niche build than blindly follow the meta

Your using blindly follows wrong. It implies that the meta might be suboptimal to any other setup and thus you want to discover the best.
If you want to run suboptimal gear it's your choice but you won't discover the new bis that way.

I say blindly, cause there are players that just copy-paste builds without really understanding it, and are thus utterly incapable of playing the build the same as the creator. Perhaps Naively is a better choice for wording. Throughout the past year, I've been testing a lot of Pelinial + ___ armor sets, figuring out what works best with my Hybrid DK (as well as with the warden too) I think it mostly is based on your play style, which is something i've been figuring out this past three years. Even now, my set up isn't bis for hybrids, but it works fairly well. In general, one thing I noticed about hybrids is the lack in spell/weapon penetration, and since I already have a mundus stone for weapon damage (which brings my weapon damage and spell damage up above 3k when buffed), I still lack penetration. I'm currently testing an odd set up in PTS, and will look to next pts patch to see how they change Heavy Armor.

From what I've seen, building up for weapon damage, and then building up max magicka is ideal, currently my Hybrid DK has around 32k max magicka, 24k max stam, and 18k (or 23k in cyrodiil) max health. At the moment, building similar to a magicka build but utilizing a lot of stamina skills for utility or damage is what is bis for Hybrids.

technohic

I have tried coming up with a hybrid but then wind up wondering “why?”

What can I get out of magicka abilities I can’t from stam and vice versa? All I can come up with is shields and purge from mag, break free and roll dodge sustain from stam. Think that’s why I like my Stamplar. I just use extended ritual and forgo shields.

My NB might have something as I think I prefer stamblade damage but magblade utility so much that it’s too costly as stam. Might look into doing something there.

Gan Xing

technohic wrote: »

I have tried coming up with a hybrid but then wind up wondering “why?”

What can I get out of magicka abilities I can’t from stam and vice versa? All I can come up with is shields and purge from mag, break free and roll dodge sustain from stam. Think that’s why I like my Stamplar. I just use extended ritual and forgo shields.

My NB might have something as I think I prefer stamblade damage but magblade utility so much that it’s too costly as stam. Might look into doing something there.

Hybrid NB? i've considered it, but haven't gotten around to testing it. My only NB has become my crafter, so I don't really take him out into battle anymore... He is an old retired man now. I have been considering making a new NB, and will try a few things for NB hybrid

technohic

Gan Xing wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I have tried coming up with a hybrid but then wind up wondering “why?”

What can I get out of magicka abilities I can’t from stam and vice versa? All I can come up with is shields and purge from mag, break free and roll dodge sustain from stam. Think that’s why I like my Stamplar. I just use extended ritual and forgo shields.

My NB might have something as I think I prefer stamblade damage but magblade utility so much that it’s too costly as stam. Might look into doing something there.

Hybrid NB? i've considered it, but haven't gotten around to testing it. My only NB has become my crafter, so I don't really take him out into battle anymore... He is an old retired man now. I have been considering making a new NB, and will try a few things for NB hybrid

I went to look at sets right after and pretty much came up with that I could provide my magicka sustain for utility by using prisoners but it really wouldnt be a hybrid

Gan Xing

technohic wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I have tried coming up with a hybrid but then wind up wondering “why?”

What can I get out of magicka abilities I can’t from stam and vice versa? All I can come up with is shields and purge from mag, break free and roll dodge sustain from stam. Think that’s why I like my Stamplar. I just use extended ritual and forgo shields.

My NB might have something as I think I prefer stamblade damage but magblade utility so much that it’s too costly as stam. Might look into doing something there.

Hybrid NB? i've considered it, but haven't gotten around to testing it. My only NB has become my crafter, so I don't really take him out into battle anymore... He is an old retired man now. I have been considering making a new NB, and will try a few things for NB hybrid

I went to look at sets right after and pretty much came up with that I could provide my magicka sustain for utility by using prisoners but it really wouldnt be a hybrid

Bone pirate + Witchmothers gives you decent magicka and stamina sustain

And there are Werewolves who run Pelinial, Prisoners, and Troll king since the WW heal is based off of magicka and spell damage.

technohic

Gan Xing wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I have tried coming up with a hybrid but then wind up wondering “why?”

What can I get out of magicka abilities I can’t from stam and vice versa? All I can come up with is shields and purge from mag, break free and roll dodge sustain from stam. Think that’s why I like my Stamplar. I just use extended ritual and forgo shields.

My NB might have something as I think I prefer stamblade damage but magblade utility so much that it’s too costly as stam. Might look into doing something there.

Hybrid NB? i've considered it, but haven't gotten around to testing it. My only NB has become my crafter, so I don't really take him out into battle anymore... He is an old retired man now. I have been considering making a new NB, and will try a few things for NB hybrid

I went to look at sets right after and pretty much came up with that I could provide my magicka sustain for utility by using prisoners but it really wouldnt be a hybrid

Bone pirate + Witchmothers gives you decent magicka and stamina sustain

And there are Werewolves who run Pelinial, Prisoners, and Troll king since the WW heal is based off of magicka and spell damage.

I’m thinking with NB, even with clever alchemist nerf making it harder to set up to gank, I could still deal with its 50% uptime using prisoners for recovery and to sprint to go along with shades and cloak to disengage during the downtime. Really; I think I could even gank like this even with alchemist nerf seeing as ganking is already down anyway with Miats; my shade starting combat isn’t a big deal.

I can put 5 alchemist on one bar then 5 prisoners just on my bow bar for roll then sprint and run 2 piece monster set. Wish I could run dual wield and take advantage of just 1 master/asylum 1h weapon on front bar so may just go 2h and keep rally.

kaithuzar

This is always an awkward topic for me because at launch I played a primarily magblade hybrid.
I had both capped spell & weapon damage.

But I feel for the last few years, if you were/are primarily a stam build, you can go hybrid because magicka offers great support skills.
But if you're magic damage focused, I don't feel like the same can be said for stamina offering magic class good support skills.

Also I'm just stuck on the point that stam can exist without magicka but magicka can not exist without stamina. I just think the resource balance isn't as usable/fair/practical.
I mean if you're stam nb, you use cloak & what else??? And cloak isn't even necessary if you build for heavy armor.

Gan Xing

technohic wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I have tried coming up with a hybrid but then wind up wondering “why?”

What can I get out of magicka abilities I can’t from stam and vice versa? All I can come up with is shields and purge from mag, break free and roll dodge sustain from stam. Think that’s why I like my Stamplar. I just use extended ritual and forgo shields.

My NB might have something as I think I prefer stamblade damage but magblade utility so much that it’s too costly as stam. Might look into doing something there.

Hybrid NB? i've considered it, but haven't gotten around to testing it. My only NB has become my crafter, so I don't really take him out into battle anymore... He is an old retired man now. I have been considering making a new NB, and will try a few things for NB hybrid

I went to look at sets right after and pretty much came up with that I could provide my magicka sustain for utility by using prisoners but it really wouldnt be a hybrid

Bone pirate + Witchmothers gives you decent magicka and stamina sustain

And there are Werewolves who run Pelinial, Prisoners, and Troll king since the WW heal is based off of magicka and spell damage.

I’m thinking with NB, even with clever alchemist nerf making it harder to set up to gank, I could still deal with its 50% uptime using prisoners for recovery and to sprint to go along with shades and cloak to disengage during the downtime. Really; I think I could even gank like this even with alchemist nerf seeing as ganking is already down anyway with Miats; my shade starting combat isn’t a big deal.

I can put 5 alchemist on one bar then 5 prisoners just on my bow bar for roll then sprint and run 2 piece monster set. Wish I could run dual wield and take advantage of just 1 master/asylum 1h weapon on front bar so may just go 2h and keep rally.

If I were you, sit by monsters that get aggro easily, so the player would think less of suddenly getting shot by a magick arrow

Morvane

seems all fans of hybrid buildds with their "pelinal is OP I have 3k dmag and 30k stam 25k mana" dont count CP at all

Gan Xing

Morvane wrote: »

seems all fans of hybrid buildds with their "pelinal is OP I have 3k dmag and 30k stam 25k mana" dont count CP at all

How do you mean? that I'm not inputting what I have for CP?

Soris

Trying to create a decent pvp stamplar build who runs blazing shield as main defence. (2h/SnB, like in the old times pre IC patch)

No luck yet.. Shield is too damn small in pvp under 40-50k health. And with that much health i have massive problems regarding magicka and stamina costs of skills/actions and my regen and damage sucks so bad.

In pve however, it rocks!

/sadface

Morvane

Gan Xing wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

seems all fans of hybrid buildds with their "pelinal is OP I have 3k dmag and 30k stam 25k mana" dont count CP at all

How do you mean? that I'm not inputting what I have for CP?

I mean CP system isnt designed for hybrids.
I can also add that skills damage based on resource pool is painful blow to hybrids builds too

technohic

Morvane wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

seems all fans of hybrid buildds with their "pelinal is OP I have 3k dmag and 30k stam 25k mana" dont count CP at all

How do you mean? that I'm not inputting what I have for CP?

I mean CP system isnt designed for hybrids.
I can also add that skills damage based on resource pool is painful blow to hybrids builds too

Yeah. It’s where you pretty much do your damage and healing from 1 pool and use the other for utility. That’s what I was saying with NB is basically it’s not really not a hybrid once you look at it.

Gan Xing

technohic wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

seems all fans of hybrid buildds with their "pelinal is OP I have 3k dmag and 30k stam 25k mana" dont count CP at all

How do you mean? that I'm not inputting what I have for CP?

I mean CP system isnt designed for hybrids.
I can also add that skills damage based on resource pool is painful blow to hybrids builds too

Yeah. It’s where you pretty much do your damage and healing from 1 pool and use the other for utility. That’s what I was saying with NB is basically it’s not really not a hybrid once you look at it.

In general, none of the mechanics are suitable for hybrid. You can make the CP system work for hybrids, but you are giving up a lot of extra damage. You are also loosing out with max-resources because the current mechanics favors max resources + weapon/spell damage for overall damage of abilities. Because of this, you loose out on a chance to increase your penetration, however, if you run 5/1/1 with light armor, you get almost 5k spell penetration, encouraging the player to focus more on max magicka rather than having magicka and stamina even. It also encourages the player to be more of a magicka damage with stamina utilities (and other abilities that you might not have in the class toolkit).

kaithuzar

So one part of the solution would be to buff weapon & spell damage & not have damage scale off of stamina or magicka?

I miss soft caps.

Gorrest

These are my stats, this is outside of Cyro so Im missing 5k health. During Duels I have infinite Sustain, not sure how it will perform being outnumbered. (Due note this is PTS and I dont have Agility on EU, so Im missing like 500 stam and 50 weapon damage)

kaithuzar

Gorrest wrote: »

These are my stats, this is outside of Cyro so Im missing 5k health. During Duels I have infinite Sustain, not sure how it will perform being outnumbered. (Due note this is PTS and I dont have Agility on EU, so Im missing like 500 stam and 50 weapon damage)

It looks like you're wearing that one set which makes your spell damage & weapon damage the same as a 5 piece + alchemist & then popped a potion

Looks like 0 sustain to me

Gorrest

kaithuzar wrote: »

Gorrest wrote: »

These are my stats, this is outside of Cyro so Im missing 5k health. During Duels I have infinite Sustain, not sure how it will perform being outnumbered. (Due note this is PTS and I dont have Agility on EU, so Im missing like 500 stam and 50 weapon damage)

It looks like you're wearing that one set which makes your spell damage & weapon damage the same as a 5 piece + alchemist & then popped a potion

Looks like 0 sustain to me

Pelinals is such a bad Hybrid set(plus if I had it I would have 4k spell also), and no Im not using CA. Sustain is not an issue since I am getting sustain from Pots, Argonian, and Battle Roar. Plus Heavies when I need it. Since its a Hybrid, you can pull from both resources so I can focus on Stam when no Mag and vise versa. (I guess I could of pop a pot to get the 20% buff before taking it, but oh well)

Gan Xing

Gorrest wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Gorrest wrote: »

These are my stats, this is outside of Cyro so Im missing 5k health. During Duels I have infinite Sustain, not sure how it will perform being outnumbered. (Due note this is PTS and I dont have Agility on EU, so Im missing like 500 stam and 50 weapon damage)

It looks like you're wearing that one set which makes your spell damage & weapon damage the same as a 5 piece + alchemist & then popped a potion

Looks like 0 sustain to me

Pelinals is such a bad Hybrid set(plus if I had it I would have 4k spell also), and no Im not using CA. Sustain is not an issue since I am getting sustain from Pots, Argonian, and Battle Roar. Plus Heavies when I need it. Since its a Hybrid, you can pull from both resources so I can focus on Stam when no Mag and vise versa. (I guess I could of pop a pot to get the 20% buff before taking it, but oh well)

That is some crazy stats there! I think it's safe to assume you have shacklebreaker, but I can't tell what else you have with that set up

GrumpyDuckling

When I see a set like Innate Axiom I get really excited about the potential for hybrid builds, but then I remember attribute damage scaling and hang my head.