TIME TO RETHINK CHAMPION POINTS

Crom_CCCXVI

As a day 1 player, I think PvP has never been worse than right now.
A couple points.
1) People Should Die
2) People Should Have to Work to Maintain Resources
3) Most Damage Should Come From Your Base Attacks (Ult's should be a bonus, not your only way to get a kill)
4) When you have a combat game and 1 v 1's are taking 20 minutes, and players can tank an entire zerg... you have gone too far in that direction.

Use the population of the game to determine what directions it needs to go, not the most whining. Most of the people in here complaining are already playing the Meta, and are just whining because their Meta isn't Meta enough. I actually think this is a major problem with games, about 75% of your PvP population is a sheild stacking Sorc, and the forums are full of complaining sheild stacking Sorcs... where are your Magic Templars? your Stam Templars, your Magic Nightblades? get it...... those are the classes that need something, the ones no one is playing.

That said, I think the No CP mechanic is pretty good. I get it, that most people won't play it, but that is the nature of an MMO more than anything else. MMO populations want to feel like they are achieving something, like they are building something, people plays these characters for months, the customization that comes from even a small amount of change is the attraction-

I hear people say, "I don't play CP because I don't have sustain" --- yeah, you need to kill someone, not fight them for 20 minutes with no chance of you ever dying..... People will argue with me, but the game population speaks for itself. It is low right now, and it's because CP isn't fun. You have to zerg to kill most of the time, and then so much of the population is some sort of 3 shield stacking, 2 skill spamming, destro Ult bomb combo.
I remember when people used to complain about Wrecking Blow Spam, sure.. but you had to hit them 3 or 4x, and they could block, dodge roll etc.. it was actual combat- and the game population reflected it. It was more fun.

FYI- I have 775 CP, I consider myself a decent player. This isn't a whine post, this is me looking at a game I have invested in, watching the population dwindle, and trying to help keep it alive.
and PVE, you don't have to change it at all ( I don't care) -- they never had to be the same, when you go into Cyrodil is what I am concerned about it.

IxSTALKERxI

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

A couple points.
1) People Should Die
2) People Should Have to Work to Maintain Resources
3) Most Damage Should Come From Your Base Attacks (Ult's should be a bonus, not your only way to get a kill)
4) When you have a combat game and 1 v 1's are taking 20 minutes, you have gone too far in that direction.

I agree with these points. Although the last 2 patches have nerfed some of the crazy tank builds introduced in one tamriel so they aren't as much of an issue anymore imo. But I definately agree with the 'ult's should be a bonus'.

Turelus

Could we rethink them in a way that they're not even in the game any more? Seriously I hate the entire system.

We have no-cp campaigns though and they just don't prove as popular as the CP campaigns, meaning the majority seems happier with CP in PvP.

Storymaster

Taking CP fully out of PVP is one thing, but removing CP from the PVE game is quite another. Personally I think CP enhances the replayability of the PVE game and gives an incentive to continuing to play as well as rolling new toons.

Turelus

Storymaster wrote: »

Taking CP fully out of PVP is one thing, but removing CP from the PVE game is quite another. Personally I think CP enhances the replayability of the PVE game and gives an incentive to continuing to play as well as rolling new toons.

Other progression systems could do that and be less imbalanced messes though. CP is at it's heart a nice idea, but it never should have been a stats mechanic and the longer it stays the more it creeps up and up and up and the longer the new people have to grind skyreach to have a chance in CP enabled content.

Rickter

I dont think CP was designed for PvP.

and maybe thats the problem. The lead designer, Maria Aliprando, bless her heart, played a PvE tank. and you see the trinity of PvE in CP. Blue = DPS Green = Resource mgmt Red = survival

where was pvp? now i guess thats the green tree. after how many years?

Red tree needs to be reworked.

OR

take cp out of pvp. but we all know how that went (hello CP vet BGs!!!)

CyrusArya

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

1) People Should Die
2) People Should Have to Work to Maintain Resources
3) Most Damage Should Come From Your Base Attacks (Ult's should be a bonus, not your only way to get a kill)
4) When you have a combat game and 1 v 1's are taking 20 minutes, and players can tank an entire zerg... you have gone too far in that direction.

1.) People do die (not everyone builds tanky)
2.) People do have to work for resources.
3.) Over the course of a fight, most damage does come from base damage. Ultimate is just the x factor needed to secure kills. Unless ofc you get 2 shot in one rotation for whatever reason.
4.) Most 1v1s don't last 20 mins. A 20 min duel where both sides come close to dying over and over is an exciting and dynamic fight. If its a stale match where one or both sides are just playing defensively the whole time and arent facing lethal pressure, then yeah, thats whats wrong with the game.

I agree with your points in principle, I disagree that they aren't the case already. All I'm saying is: don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There are some serious issues with PvP, but it isn't the base mechanics. Rather, its over performing sets and skill added to the game in order to "raise the floor and lower the ceiling". Think earthgore, destro ulti, sword and board ulti, resto ulti, proc sets (pre-nerf)etc.

jaws343

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

As a day 1 player, I think PvP has never been worse than right now.
A couple points.
1) People Should Die
2) People Should Have to Work to Maintain Resources
3) Most Damage Should Come From Your Base Attacks (Ult's should be a bonus, not your only way to get a kill)
4) When you have a combat game and 1 v 1's are taking 20 minutes, and players can tank an entire zerg... you have gone too far in that direction.
.

A day one player should be playing in Kyne, where they will not see any of these issues. If they are playing in Vivec, they already have a problem.

Storymaster

Turelus wrote: »

Storymaster wrote: »

Taking CP fully out of PVP is one thing, but removing CP from the PVE game is quite another. Personally I think CP enhances the replayability of the PVE game and gives an incentive to continuing to play as well as rolling new toons.

Other progression systems could do that and be less imbalanced messes though. CP is at it's heart a nice idea, but it never should have been a stats mechanic and the longer it stays the more it creeps up and up and up and the longer the new people have to grind skyreach to have a chance in CP enabled content.

I'm still not sure how this makes CP bad for PVE. Again, remove it from PVP if you must, but I hope CP is here to stay with the PVE content until the sun finally sets on this incarnation of Tamriel.

Every MMO under the sun caters to gear-based power which comes solely from raiding and pvping and a min-maxxer's heaven of end-game content. ESO is the first game where power is placed in the hands of average joe's like myself strictly for playing the game and being a loyal member over time. We're not hurting anyone being powerful in overland questing and normal dungeons after years. Leave our CP alone, Britney style.