PTS 3.2.3 Clever Alchemist - What a joke.

GreenSoup2HoT

Check this out everyone:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Clever Alchemist: This item set’s proc now requires that you are in combat for it to function.
Developer Comments: This solves the issue where some players would activate their potion with this item set, then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus. We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth.

Now there is multiple issues with this developer comment.

1: "This solves the issue".

• Since when has a ganker using clever alchemist ever been an issue?
• Gankers are annoying yes but its apart of the game and a dynamic of an open-world pvp environment.

2: "We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth."

• What is stopping people from using this set strategically in combat if they choose to rather then ganking?
• Just because your data may favor medium ganking play-styles with this set does not mean people cannot use this set in a different manner.

3: "then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus"

• If you don't like players using unique duration sets as "off-bar" sets why don't you just hit them all?

3: Did you know that gankers used to sacrifice quite a lot to "one-shot" players?.. which is no longer the case due to your insanely overpowered monster sets?
Did you know if a player fails to gank someone with clever alchemist that they are now down a potion cool-down but also a 5 piece set bonus? High Cost/Risk for High Reward?


This game has no pvp direction and its sad to see. You continue to ruin counter-play.


You wan't to know what the issues really were?

• The issue is high dps proc based monster helmets that allow any build/spec in game to burst players down with no damage at all (Hello 5k Seleane procs).
• The issue is increasing enchant damage by 300% increasing burst damage (this happend long ago).
• The issue is removing Radiant Mage Lights stealth damage mitigation and now players who complain about ganking cannot protect themselves.
• The issue was removing stealth crit damage when in reality it was really mage light empower (use-able in stealth) making one-shots damage out of control (snipe/onslaught/heavy att).
• The issue was snipe emote glitching allowing players to queue up 3+ snipes without even knowing you've been hit.
• The issue was removing crit's from proc's instead of nerfing the few that were over-performing. (Hello blanket fixes). Now you have a whole slue of useless sets that were still bad when they could crit.

You developers continue to dumb down the game and many of your balance changes are just simply whack. You have a large number of competent forum users and you completely ignore them. Just wanted to throw this out there also, the change to Eye of the Storm won't change a thing. Don't let people gap close while its active. That's a real change.


Overall the patch notes were pretty positive but some of the changes were straight up whack.

Teeba_Shei

Yeah the logic on the nerf is flawed. "We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth." You don't make players do something more by nerfing a completely different style of play. You will only see players use something more by buffing it.

Make the bonus(a buff to the set) larger when used in combat and make the bonus less when used outside combat. That would encourage more people to use it in combat, but no one will use the set at all if you just nerf it.

GreenSoup2HoT

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Yeah the logic on the nerf is flawed. "We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat, rather than it only being used to one-shot players from stealth." You don't make players do something more by nerfing a completely different style of play. You will only see players use something more by buffing it.

I find it also funny when they say "one-shot".

Yet the death cap reads usally this:

heavy att
enchant
incap
light att
execute

heavy att
enchant
soul assault

wrecking blow
enchant
onslaught
execute (if onslaught doesn't do it)

snipe
snipe
snipe
snipe

snipe
dual posion proc
light att
poison injection


throw seleane/veli/tremorscale + viper/sheer venom basically into any of the above combos.

Teeba_Shei

I really wrote the developers didn't write that description because it makes them look pretty bad if they did. They use flawed logic and a poor description of what's actually happening.

SanTii.92

The only joke here is this overreaction.

Valve

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

3: "then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus"

• If you don't like players using unique duration sets as "off-bar" sets why don't you just hit them all?

It's actually because people could use 5 pieces of this set, get the buff and then change their gear to an entirely different set (not via weapon swapping like you were thinking).

People would do this with an outfitter addon, which swaps each piece of gear they were wearing to an entirely different setup.

The new change means combat is required to obtain the buff, which fixes the problem because you can't change gear in combat.

A better solution would've have been to just remove the buff if the player changes some of their gear, but oh well.

Teeba_Shei

SanTii.92 wrote: »

The only joke here is this overreaction.

I think it's important to give the feedback deserved for a bad change and make sure they realize it's bad.

GreenSoup2HoT

Valve wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

3: "then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus"

• If you don't like players using unique duration sets as "off-bar" sets why don't you just hit them all?

It's actually because people could use 5 pieces of this set, get the buff and then change gear to an entirely different set (no weapon swapping).

People would do this with an outfitter addon.

The new change means combat is required, which fixes the problem because you can't change gear in combat.

Zenimax could of just as easily made it so you cannot change gear while in stealth. That fixes the issue of switching entire gear sets with add-on's while in stealth. Good point but still the wrong change in my opinion if thats what they were trying to fix.

Valve

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Valve wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

3: "then completely switch their gear to a new item set while retaining the bonus"

• If you don't like players using unique duration sets as "off-bar" sets why don't you just hit them all?

It's actually because people could use 5 pieces of this set, get the buff and then change gear to an entirely different set (no weapon swapping).

People would do this with an outfitter addon.

The new change means combat is required, which fixes the problem because you can't change gear in combat.

Zenimax could of just as easily made it so you cannot change gear while in stealth. That fixes the issue of switching entire gear sets with add-on's while in stealth. Good point but still the wrong change in my opinion if thats what they were trying to fix.

Yeah, I don't agree with how they're changing it, either.

Completely ruins the set for a lot of people, myself included.

clocksstoppe

>We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat

That would be nice except there is no strategic use of potions in the middle of combat considering you have to drink your immovable pots on cooldown

Lexxypwns

The reason for this change is simple. With add-ons you could proc alchemist, change that 5pc for spriggans(example) and pair that with 5 hundings(another example) and be able to get: Alchemist proc+Hunding's damage+Spriggan's pen.

The change makes sense although I wonder if it means leaving combat with the proc up means that you lose the bonus.

Maulkin

clocksstoppe wrote: »

>We want this item set to be used more strategically in the middle of combat

That would be nice except there is no strategic use of potions in the middle of combat considering you have to drink your immovable pots on cooldown

What on earth?

GreenSoup2HoT

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The reason for this change is simple. With add-ons you could proc alchemist, change that 5pc for spriggans(example) and pair that with 5 hundings(another example) and be able to get: Alchemist proc+Hunding's damage+Spriggan's pen.

The change makes sense although I wonder if it means leaving combat with the proc up means that you lose the bonus.

Yeah we covered that in earlier posts. If that is why the change occurred it could of been handled differently since console users do not face this issue.

Changing something because of an add-on doesn't seem right.

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets. That would solve that issue in my opinion.

clocksstoppe

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets.

Yeah, simple and elegant solution. Should have just made clever alchemist effect force the player into being in combat.

Teeba_Shei

Seems like a lazy change.

Maulkin

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The reason for this change is simple. With add-ons you could proc alchemist, change that 5pc for spriggans(example) and pair that with 5 hundings(another example) and be able to get: Alchemist proc+Hunding's damage+Spriggan's pen.

The change makes sense although I wonder if it means leaving combat with the proc up means that you lose the bonus.

Yeah we covered that in earlier posts. If that is why the change occurred it could of been handled differently since console users do not face this issue.

Changing something because of an add-on doesn't seem right.

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets. That would solve that issue in my opinion.

I don't think they can make exceptions easily to when you can or cannot change gear based on active effects. The potential to introduce bugs where people can't change gear is pretty big.

I think a better fix would have been that when you consume the pot and the set procs, it puts you in combat. Minimum duration for being in combat is like 30" in PvP, so you shouldn't be able to swap sets and get double benefit while the proc is active.

Teeba_Shei

Just make it so if you change what gear you're wearing(not swapping weapon) you lose the buff.

GreenSoup2HoT

clocksstoppe wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets.

Yeah, simple and elegant solution. Should have just made clever alchemist effect force the player into being in combat.

Maulkin wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The reason for this change is simple. With add-ons you could proc alchemist, change that 5pc for spriggans(example) and pair that with 5 hundings(another example) and be able to get: Alchemist proc+Hunding's damage+Spriggan's pen.

The change makes sense although I wonder if it means leaving combat with the proc up means that you lose the bonus.

Yeah we covered that in earlier posts. If that is why the change occurred it could of been handled differently since console users do not face this issue.

Changing something because of an add-on doesn't seem right.

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets. That would solve that issue in my opinion.

I don't think they can make exceptions easily to when you can or cannot change gear based on active effects. The potential to introduce bugs where people can't change gear is pretty big.

I think a better fix would have been that when you consume the pot and the set procs, it puts you in combat. Minimum duration for being in combat is like 30" in PvP, so you shouldn't be able to swap sets and get double benefit while the proc is active.

Would being in-combat pull you out of stealth though if someone wanted to still use the set for ganking?

Maulkin

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets.

Yeah, simple and elegant solution. Should have just made clever alchemist effect force the player into being in combat.

Maulkin wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The reason for this change is simple. With add-ons you could proc alchemist, change that 5pc for spriggans(example) and pair that with 5 hundings(another example) and be able to get: Alchemist proc+Hunding's damage+Spriggan's pen.

The change makes sense although I wonder if it means leaving combat with the proc up means that you lose the bonus.

Yeah we covered that in earlier posts. If that is why the change occurred it could of been handled differently since console users do not face this issue.

Changing something because of an add-on doesn't seem right.

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets. That would solve that issue in my opinion.

I don't think they can make exceptions easily to when you can or cannot change gear based on active effects. The potential to introduce bugs where people can't change gear is pretty big.

I think a better fix would have been that when you consume the pot and the set procs, it puts you in combat. Minimum duration for being in combat is like 30" in PvP, so you shouldn't be able to swap sets and get double benefit while the proc is active.

Would being in-combat pull you out of stealth though if someone wanted to still use the set for ganking?

Good question. I don't know, I don't run gank builds.

clocksstoppe

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets.

Yeah, simple and elegant solution. Should have just made clever alchemist effect force the player into being in combat.

Maulkin wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The reason for this change is simple. With add-ons you could proc alchemist, change that 5pc for spriggans(example) and pair that with 5 hundings(another example) and be able to get: Alchemist proc+Hunding's damage+Spriggan's pen.

The change makes sense although I wonder if it means leaving combat with the proc up means that you lose the bonus.

Yeah we covered that in earlier posts. If that is why the change occurred it could of been handled differently since console users do not face this issue.

Changing something because of an add-on doesn't seem right.

A better change would be to make it so during the duration of the proc you cannot change gear sets. That would solve that issue in my opinion.

I don't think they can make exceptions easily to when you can or cannot change gear based on active effects. The potential to introduce bugs where people can't change gear is pretty big.

I think a better fix would have been that when you consume the pot and the set procs, it puts you in combat. Minimum duration for being in combat is like 30" in PvP, so you shouldn't be able to swap sets and get double benefit while the proc is active.

Would being in-combat pull you out of stealth though if someone wanted to still use the set for ganking?

Don't think it would matter that much, you can always cloak.

Teeba_Shei

No you can be in combat and in stealth. This is especially true if you're in a group with someone. The irony is all this change will do is force me to get an addon to tell me whether I'm in combat or not. Screws over console players pretty hard though.

Narvuntien

You destroied my chatacter.

Now I can no longer play thanks

I hate you.

How about you just have the buff leave when you take off the gear instead of removing my ability to play the game.

Jake1576

If this change makes it to live it's going to affect one of the best sets stamina nightblades have yet sorcerers changes to frags looked to have been reverted @ZOS_Wrobel why are you picking on the ganking play style so much first it was the bow heavy attack then the nerf to stealth then proc sets now this nerf to clever alchemist you don't even play this game do you I think you have to be the worst person to be working on combat changes maybe they should down grade you to more of a janitor job maybe you would actually be able to do that right

zyk

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The change makes sense although I wonder if it means leaving combat with the proc up means that you lose the bonus.

The change is lazy. Rather than fix the underlying issue, they're changing the set in an unfortunate way that will make it awkward to use. It's extremely disrespectful to players.

This is yet another case of ZOS unnecessarily taking something away from players.

Tirps

How the heck I will kill anyone with shields or guy with decent heavy armor build? WTB stamina based DoT for nb or something lol.

Ankael07

Look at you telling developers what is an issue and what isnt. If you're justifying 1 shotting people from stealth as ''its a part of the game'' then guess what? It isnt a part of the game anymore.
It doesn't even matter what you sacrifice to 1 shot people. ''1 shot or get 1 shot'' isnt a healthy combat style for an MMO.

Narvuntien

Okay I have 400 to +999 ping and 60 that drops to 2 FPS in combat.

Tell me how do I kill someone?

I have to set up before the fight starts because I lag out when I get close to someone.

Subversus

I really hope they revert this change. This nukes my bombblade and is yet ANOTHER buff to those 60 man zergs stacking on resources. Good thing I'm quitting this *** mess of a game

Jake1576

...

Derra

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

[*] Gankers are annoying yes but its apart of the game and a dynamic of an open-world pvp environment.

Quite obviously this form of ganking was not intended to be part of this games open-world pvp environment.

Subversus

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

[*] Gankers are annoying yes but its apart of the game and a dynamic of an open-world pvp environment.

Quite obviously this form of ganking was not intended to be part of this games open-world pvp environment.

This forces everyone to run groups in cyrodiil. No longer will anyone be able to solo wipe huge zergs in cyrodiil. Let's be real now, no playstyle can have a chance against blobs stacking heals unless you instantly nuke most of them on a bombblade and even then it's a longshot.

Game promoting free gameplay yet is basically forcing you to go into a group (be it big or small) in order to survive in open world.