PVP- Game is Not Easier for new players, it's the opposite

Crom_CCCXVI

I've heard justification for many of the PvP changes to make the game easier for new players. I understand that to a degree, you don't want someone to jump into a game and have no idea of ever how to kill anyone without months of work.

However, the direction the game has gone in the past year has done exactly that. (Especially in CP)

I imagine when you released the desto Ult the idea was that now even a new player can drop a bomb on people and get kills, but the enjoyment in the game isn't a bomb once and a while then you get destroyed the other 90% of the time. -- and that is what we have.
The game would be better served to where the majority of damage actually comes from hitting someone with a weapon or a spell.- There is just too much defense, between the absurd sheild stacking and the no death builds anywhere. Can you imagine being a new player, jumping into Cyrodil, even if you have decent gear, you run up to someone land a bunch of attacks and then they took no damage they turn around and blast you with some cheap spammable attack or destro ult your group.. it's gotten dumb.

I have 775 CP, I am fine, I'm not whining... I'm looking at a thinning population and watching my guildmates move on to other games because CP play just isn't that fun right now. You almost have to zerg just to kill anyone, and then it's just a mob.- it's not skilled group combat.

If you reduced the CP effects by 80%, lowered regen, lowered Ult damage and raised base damage it would be a better game. LOL, Players are suppose to resource out or kill you.. these 20 min 1 v 1's are horrible for a combat game.

amir412

So pepole who spent 3 years playing this game, should be equal to new born players?
lel, Thats exactly where this game is going to, just wait a bit.

Chelo

This isn't a ''combat game'', its an MMO and its exactly the same for any game of the genre... If you want a game where newbies start at the same level as old players, play PUBG, or other Battle Royale games...

GrumpyDuckling

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I've heard justification for many of the PvP changes to make the game easier for new players. I understand that to a degree, you don't want someone to jump into a game and have no idea of ever how to kill anyone without months of work.

However, the direction the game has gone in the past year has done exactly that. (Especially in CP)

I imagine when you released the desto Ult the idea was that now even a new player can drop a bomb on people and get kills, but the enjoyment in the game isn't a bomb once and a while then you get destroyed the other 90% of the time. -- and that is what we have.
The game would be better served to where the majority of damage actually comes from hitting someone with a weapon or a spell.- There is just too much defense, between the absurd sheild stacking and the no death builds anywhere. Can you imagine being a new player, jumping into Cyrodil, even if you have decent gear, you run up to someone land a bunch of attacks and then they took no damage they turn around and blast you with some cheap spammable attack or destro ult your group.. it's gotten dumb.

I have 775 CP, I am fine, I'm not whining... I'm looking at a thinning population and watching my guildmates move on to other games because CP play just isn't that fun right now. You almost have to zerg just to kill anyone, and then it's just a mob.- it's not skilled group combat.

If you reduced the CP effects by 80%, lowered regen, lowered Ult damage and raised base damage it would be a better game. LOL, Players are suppose to resource out or kill you.. these 20 min 1 v 1's are horrible for a combat game.

Some will disagree, but I think it's worth TESTING potion removal in PVP.

Destro ult becomes a problem when an immovable potion is used and the player spams a gap closer. Remove the potion, reduce the problem.

20 min 1v1's become possible due to resource buffs that players receive from potions. Remove the potion, reduce the problem.

Airyus

Chelo wrote: »

This isn't a ''combat game'', its an MMO and its exactly the same for any game of the genre... If you want a game where newbies start at the same level as old players, play PUBG, or other Battle Royale games...

^^^ this. Earn your dam stripes. Casuals have already ruined this game enough.

idk

Nothing can really be done to make the game easy for new players and still keep some semblance of what makes PvP worthy. They need to figure out the mechanics and PvP should never really be easy.

As for the existing players that were challenged in PvP before the changes, skilled players will usually overpower them. Choice of builds and most especially tactics will win almost every time, and should.

Narvuntien

Well I find it to be a lot like real (medievil) warfare but with magic.... nothing is fair and it is all brutal melee none of that noble knight nonsense its people trying to kill each other any way nessairy. Of course powerful healing magic makes it a lot different.

The Zerg is a feature of cryodil PVP not a bug. It is something you manipulate as a general, getting the zerg to be where you want it is a highly entertaining part of the Cryodil Chess match. You have to stop resenting the Zerg and use it as a tool. Split it, confuse it, lead it away from where it needs to be... there is so much game play there.

New players in PVP can man siege and PVDoor they don't have to fight 1v1. Having good generals/group leaders will allow them to really learn fast about how to play and how to deal with failure about where they need to be.

Your intiail PVP experience I find is really down to how good your General/group leader is.

Barbara73

After experiencing PvP here I think it would be better to just let the nOObs (like me) have their area and keep the players that like to be professional PvP'ers out of that area. I know there are some that have played for years then make a new toon and fit it with the best gear and go kill nOObs, I've met them, one or two players killing large groups over and over. As for making players like me equal to the experts that seems unfair and boring to me.

Skander

Game is not easy for old champ that wants to fight, since is a zergfest.

zaria

Barbara73 wrote: »

After experiencing PvP here I think it would be better to just let the nOObs (like me) have their area and keep the players that like to be professional PvP'ers out of that area. I know there are some that have played for years then make a new toon and fit it with the best gear and go kill nOObs, I've met them, one or two players killing large groups over and over. As for making players like me equal to the experts that seems unfair and boring to me.

A good PvP players can easy kill small groups of noobs like me.
Not an zerg, yes an small coordinated group can kill an large zerg, either by bombing them or simply battlefield tactic like hitting in the back or spread out and defeat in detail.

Biro123

The older a game gets, the harder it is for new players - as their opposition is always so much more experienced.

In one way that's good because it means that the game does (despite what some say) has an element of skill involved. But in another way its bad, because unless the game is big enough to have some kind of tiered matchmaking system (which can only work in small-scale stuff like BG's anyway) - there will be a point where its almost impossible for new players to get started and the PVP aspect of the game will eventually die.

WhoThenNow7

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I've heard justification for many of the PvP changes to make the game easier for new players. I understand that to a degree, you don't want someone to jump into a game and have no idea of ever how to kill anyone without months of work.

However, the direction the game has gone in the past year has done exactly that. (Especially in CP)

I imagine when you released the desto Ult the idea was that now even a new player can drop a bomb on people and get kills, but the enjoyment in the game isn't a bomb once and a while then you get destroyed the other 90% of the time. -- and that is what we have.
The game would be better served to where the majority of damage actually comes from hitting someone with a weapon or a spell.- There is just too much defense, between the absurd sheild stacking and the no death builds anywhere. Can you imagine being a new player, jumping into Cyrodil, even if you have decent gear, you run up to someone land a bunch of attacks and then they took no damage they turn around and blast you with some cheap spammable attack or destro ult your group.. it's gotten dumb.

I have 775 CP, I am fine, I'm not whining... I'm looking at a thinning population and watching my guildmates move on to other games because CP play just isn't that fun right now. You almost have to zerg just to kill anyone, and then it's just a mob.- it's not skilled group combat.

If you reduced the CP effects by 80%, lowered regen, lowered Ult damage and raised base damage it would be a better game. LOL, Players are suppose to resource out or kill you.. these 20 min 1 v 1's are horrible for a combat game.

Some will disagree, but I think it's worth TESTING potion removal in PVP.

Destro ult becomes a problem when an immovable potion is used and the player spams a gap closer. Remove the potion, reduce the problem.

20 min 1v1's become possible due to resource buffs that players receive from potions. Remove the potion, reduce the problem.

Yeah but then you can say goodbye to using clever alchemist and no one would pick argonians either. I don't think that's the way to go.. I just think they added way too many features. I would be fine with simple resource potions.

thedude33

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

..........There is just too much defense, between the absurd sheild stacking and the no death builds anywhere. Can you imagine being a new player, jumping into Cyrodil, even if you have decent gear, you run up to someone land a bunch of attacks and then they took no damage they turn around and blast you with some cheap spammable attack or destro ult your group.. it's gotten dumb.

........
If you reduced the CP effects by 80%, lowered regen, lowered Ult damage and raised base damage it would be a better game. LOL, Players are suppose to resource out or kill you.. these 20 min 1 v 1's are horrible for a combat game.

Don't you see the paradox in what you wrote? You mention not being able to damage someone, yet they turn around and blast you down easily. So which is the problem? Players are too hard to kill and it takes 20 minutes to kill someone, or, players die too quickly?

Now I do understand how you feel. I can attack an afk player and might eventually kill him after a few minutes ... or he can return to the keyboard, and all he has to do is look at me and I die. That's my own issue though because I suck. It's not the games fault.

FloppyTouch

That's why new players should play in big groups and non cp campaign. They can learn the ropes start to get good. Eventually they will be running back to a fight and be able to hold there own against some one. Learning is a part of getting better and getting better takes time. I have seen new players and brought them into pvp and with in a few months hold there own.

Vapirko

I play solo or duo and occasionally in small flips of players and get kills all the time. You can find good solo and small scale fights in shor during prime time. You can even find 1v1 or 1vX in vivec. I like CP play.

Bkella

Uhhhh there is Pre-50 and No-CP campaigns, so yes there are areas for noobs where the playing field is level.

NyassaV

As someone who knows what they are doing, take responsibilty and start teaching the new populus

Chelo

Barbara73 wrote: »

After experiencing PvP here I think it would be better to just let the nOObs (like me) have their area and keep the players that like to be professional PvP'ers out of that area. I know there are some that have played for years then make a new toon and fit it with the best gear and go kill nOObs, I've met them, one or two players killing large groups over and over. As for making players like me equal to the experts that seems unfair and boring to me.

If you are bored because other players are better than you, its your own fault... Nothing the game could do to help you, there's no handicaps here (that would be unfair)...

Honestly you only have 2 options, keep losing or try to get better, and thats it...

jaws343

People really need to just do better at learning mechanics and survivability in PVP.

I remember my first adventure in Cyrodil at around 200CP. I thought to myself, this should be ok, I am champ level. I rode towards the first battle I saw, dismounted, got within range of an attack and before I could do anything I was melted by a CP 500 player. I immediately left the CP campaign and realized I wasn't ready.

However, what I didn't do was quit PVP. Instead, I built an alt and too it into BwB/Kyne. Once I hit vet with that alt, I rolled another and another until I had played through to 50 and practiced on every class. This allowed me to learn mechanics, counterplay, and each classes weaknesses and strengths. I am still learning, but now I can bring level 15 characters into Vivec and hold my own for the most part and do very well on my CP characters.

So yes, there is a place to learn PVP, it's called Kyne.

katamuro11b16_ESO

I really get it. I am not much interested in PVP but I want to quest in Cyrodil however I get ganked by all these peeps. Though because I am a temptank I am hard to kill but at the same time I simply don't do the damage to them so...

GrigorijMalahevich

Oh yes, the good old newbie player problems...

I remember when I just moved from xbox to PC and just leveled up to 250cp, got blue seducer and random lich items. My new PC guild had a 1x1 evening to understand who sucks and who can hold their own. Oh the agony of one max cp Khajit stamnb that had 90%crit and was supposed to be "god of ganking" and he didn't want to accept a duel invetation from my magsorc, as it was too easy for him, at least from his point of view... and then boom, 25 second fights and he is already login in on his magblade... stamdk... magplar... probably fought for couple of hours with little to no success. But after couple of weeks he started to understand that PvP is not only about attacking someone from sneak...

It is up to you to teach your friends and pass the potatoe skill on word!!!

Witar

You can always go to nocp if you don't like cp. Just saying.

chris25602

So I think there should be 2 more divisions made to cyrodil campaigns as it is lvl 50 CP thats great but, we should also have dedicated campaigns for cp 160+ and another for cp 450+ ...to not drain the pvp culture the advanced campaigns should only be 7 day campaigns the overall 30 day campaigns remain. would give a cool boost to having a guest and home campaign might make each fun.

Drakkdjinn

Try NoCP. Bikes are more fun without the training wheels.

DosPanchos

Some good suggestions. I'd like to see ONE non-cp campaign to consolidate the population. Make it 14 days.

Adding a 450+ campaign is also really interesting.

We just need concentrated campaigns no matter the solution...

P.S. If any noob needs help in pvp just tell them to run a stamward.

klink012

Get rid of all the useless 7 day camps (that have 1 bar during primetime) and make 1 camp 14 day in length.

Vivec
14 day CP enabled
Non CP (New player friendly)

Below 50 - I'd remove this too. New players go there and get wasted by all the trolls and players who just stay in that camp. They can play in no CP and get taught correctly. Battle leveling helps anyway.

Make small scale viable again please.

doslekis

If new players can't understand that they won't be as good as someone who's played since the game launched then that's their problem.

I took the whooping I got when I first tried pvp as a challenge to get gud.

Been playing for a little less than a year now. At 450 CP, and I'm not even close to being as good as some of these vet players. I still die a lot, but I've learned to get a lot more kills than when I started.

Vizier

This is an MMO RPG, NOT a FPS. If I wanted no progression for my time played I'd play COD or PUBG or some such. There should be no expectation from new players to be on par with veterans. As it is the ESO offers no CP campaigns and under lvl 50 PvP where stats are somewhat evened out across the board. So I'm pretty much not feeling your sentiment.

The game definitely has some issues where overall balance between classes and Stam/Mag builds is an issue but that is a whole other matter.

Alexandrious

Airyus wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

This isn't a ''combat game'', its an MMO and its exactly the same for any game of the genre... If you want a game where newbies start at the same level as old players, play PUBG, or other Battle Royale games...

^^^ this. Earn your dam stripes. Casuals have already ruined this game enough.

They have? How?

altemriel

pvp is hard, you get wrecked by great players so many times, mount riding simulator for me. but as a diamond, you get forged to a fortress, noone could conquer.

VaranisArano

PVP contains multitudes. Without pre-made builds that eliminate diversity, there are so many different builds, so many different situations, so many different tactics, and so many different counters that new players will always be at a disadvantage entering PVP regardless of skill level. They simply don't have the experience.

A new PVE player can learn and memorize tactics for dungeons bosses. How do you memorize what to do when a bomber springs in the middle of your group, when the pair of "unkillable" tanks turtle up, when you bust down the front door of a keep running full tilt into a full raid of the enemy, or when you need to purge, break free, roll dodge, or just plain run away...if you don't experience it? How can you learn to PVP without doing it?

Now, how do players get that experience? Some will figure it out on their own. Some will go to the Below LVL 50 campaign and practice there. Some will pug until they make it. Others will end up in organized small groups or raids that train their members.

My point is that the specifics of player skills are less important to PVP difficulty than the sheer complexity of the ESO PVP experience. To players who are first starting, PVP is chaos. Experience is what brings order to the chaos and allows players to find their own place in PVP and become better players, not tweaking skills or making certain builds more or less powerful. When the enemy faction players have access to exactly the same skills, gear and builds you do (something that's true currently), the only real edge is knowledge and your ability to execute properly.

If you want to even the playing field, eliminate diversity and limit team size. New players will have far less to learn...but they will lose out on the chaotic richness that is Cyrodiil, which supports PVP on any build, any class, any weapon, playing the map, AP farming, and fights for everyone from solo players to organized 24-man raids+pugs. Frankly, its amazing that one arena supports that varied experience of PVP as well as Cyrodiil does.