No weighted drop chances? Isn't it past time for this feature?

Mystrius_Archaion

I look at the Perfected Asylum Weapon drop conditions requirements and I think to myself:
1) "If it takes that much work on the hardest difficult, will I still get a shield in well-fitted trait when I really need a staff on all my characters?".
2) "Other games have drops influenced by the gear you actually are using or a choice of what type you want to see drop, even if parts are still random, so why can't ESO do this sort of weighted drop chance system?"

Isn't it about time we got weighted drop chances, especially for the hardest content? Hasn't it been past time for all games to do this for years? This is NOT hard to introduce to the game at all.
I know you may want to gear up your alts doing the content, but wouldn't it be better if the drop chances weren't just each weapon type and armor type drops equally but more than the one you are using has at least a 50% chance to drop while the next most likely for you to choose, such as the other types of staves or other types of stamina weapons, have a 25% chance and the remaining 25% is divided equally among all the other types of weapons? Armor could be the same way with the one you are using most of, like how skills detect when you have 5 or more on, drops most often and then the one of your primary stat drops next most often and finally the other you don't use at all on that character drops least often.

I certainly like seeing this feature in other games so that I at least get something remotely usable for my characters, even if not ideal, for all all the effort I put in. Anybody else want to see weighted drop chances?

paulsimonps

With the introduction of the retrait system I really don't think they are gonna make a change like that.

Mystrius_Archaion

paulsimonps wrote: »

With the introduction of the retrait system I really don't think they are gonna make a change like that.

You can't retrait the wrong type of weapon. How do you retrait a shield into a restoration staff or destruction staff or bow?
That's the problem.

I run magicka characters almost every time. I need a destruction or restoration staff, almost nothing else. I can make either work, but I can't make a stamina weapon work because I can't regain magicka from a heavy attack with a "stamina weapon".

Tannus15

Certainly some magic along these lines should be implemented, under whatever criteria ZoS deem appropriate.

I finally got my first maelstrom bow drop last night after 30+ runs.
I don't care what trait, I was just after a bow.

SirAndy

ESO RNG is already heavily weighted, just not in the way you are suggesting.

I doubt they will change their implementation to add a weight according to the players preferences.

Mystrius_Archaion

SirAndy wrote: »

ESO RNG is already heavily weighted, just not in the way you are suggesting.

I doubt they will change their implementation to add a weight according to the players preferences.

So..."doubt" = "do not want"?

Forget about what they will or won't do because we can only suggest and hope. Just post what you want..."in your heart". /carebearstare
I couldn't resist a joke at the end.

SirAndy

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

So..."doubt" = "do not want"?

No, "doubt" as in:

I have been here for over 4 years and was part of the super secret 24/7 in-house beta and i just can't see ZOS ever committing to such a change.

Mystrius_Archaion

SirAndy wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

So..."doubt" = "do not want"?

No, "doubt" as in:

I have been here for over 4 years and was part of the super secret 24/7 in-house beta and i just can't see ZOS ever committing to such a change.

Things change, mostly because they need to. They seem to be actually concerned with lowering grind with the new transmutation system. Just check the patch notes spoiler tag in that section.

If they really want players to not complain about getting "another useless drop for the hardest mode of veteran trials" then they really need this.
And, it would take all of 5 minutes to add in. I already gave them possible numbers and the code for the checks already exists. I believe some quest rewards(or was it CE chests?) are already weighted even for them to copy-paste code from.

Almost every other game has added this feature while the others started with this feature to begin with, either that or they use straight up tokens as drops and you purchase exactly what you want.
Casual, or limited time hardcore, is the new majority customer, and they really need to follow the majority and do this.


For example, I've already written off trying for any of the perfected weapons if they don't have weighted chances. I'll never get one because it's too much effort to ask of me. I'll do the one completion for the skin and then be happy with normal mode, not even veteran.
They really wouldn't want the majority of players to do what I have decided to do because then there wouldn't be enough players interested in veteran hard mode for you people farming the best weapon or the runebox.

idk

Will multiple runs be likely to get an rStaff, very possibly though 4 may drop in the first clear.

In the end, it will be much better since we can re-trait the weapon to what we want after we get the weapon.

With the ability to trade weapons within the group the RNG is reduced further. I know if I get the perfect rStaff I would be happy to give it to our healer and I expect he/she would be happy to give me the dStaff they get.

All much better.

Taleof2Cities

idk wrote: »

With the ability to trade weapons within the group the RNG is reduced further. I know if I get the perfect rStaff I would be happy to give it to our healer and I expect he/she would be happy to give me the dStaff they get.

All much better.

Agreed, not sure if that's something the OP simply overlooked ... or if that info was "conveniently omitted" from the initial post.

At any rate, you're right. You can freely trade perfect and imperfect weapons within your group. It gets to be more of a non-issue the more runs the group makes.

In addition, if there was an influential choice by the player (combined with the ability to transmute the trait), no one would have incentive to run the content.

Mystrius_Archaion

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

idk wrote: »

With the ability to trade weapons within the group the RNG is reduced further. I know if I get the perfect rStaff I would be happy to give it to our healer and I expect he/she would be happy to give me the dStaff they get.

All much better.

Agreed, not sure if that's something the OP simply overlooked ... or if that info was "conveniently omitted" from the initial post.

No, I just admit that everyone has alts and may just save such an item for a possible alt even or just be really selfish.
There is no guarantee anyone would trade it.
Also, I happen to go for restoration staff for the increased magicka recovery and survivability from Ward Ally, especially on my templar.
Also, what if nobody in the group gets the right weapon for you, or they have to decide who to give the ONE right weapon that dropped to?

This also is not just meant for group content. The maelstrom arena weapons can't be traded to anybody.
There are SO MANY reasons to have weighted drop chances.


I wonder, if nobody asked for drop chance improvements would we still be back in the old Everquest days of one person getting the 1/1000 drop chance item from a boss that also had to be camped and tagged or you couldn't even get a chance at loot.
Anybody want to roll for loot again????

You're saying we shouldn't have a convenience quality of life and believability improvement for this so would you like to go the other way and make it even worse?

By the way, why are we getting a super amazing weapon from a boss when that boss doesn't use it against us and couldn't have made it itself and isn't guaranteed to have it so we have to break the space-time continuum to farm it for a random drop?
It's not believable or fun.

Mystrius_Archaion

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

In addition, if there was an influential choice by the player (combined with the ability to transmute the trait), no one would have incentive to run the content.

So you get a specific item anywhere? not just the specific content it is said to drop in?

You still have reason to do the content, but don't kid yourself thinking everyone is going to be farming Vet hard mode as often as they can even after they get the weapon they want and the runebox.
People find what they want and try every possible way to get it faster and then they are done. That's the way it has always been and always will be, especially the harder they make the content.

Now, if you want people to actually repeat stuff because they enjoy it so people can find groups then you need to make the content fun and rewarding and maybe leave the only reward for hardmode being bragging rights and maybe a title saying "insane hardmode head-bashing-against-wall winner".

You can't retrait the wrong item type into another item type, like shield to staff, and you can't count on the right item to drop at all for your entire group or enough for each person in the group who may need it for them or their alts and you can't count on people not being selfish and hoarding them even if they can't currently use it.
Every last possibility makes it worse when a weapon or other item that you don't want drops.


FYI, I would hoard every last weapon drop for future alts even if I can't yet use it, unless I didn't have the item I needed more yet and somebody was willing to trade, but that lasts all of one trade. I would be the most selfish hoarder I am allowed to be afterwards.
#sorrynotsorry (funny, I wonder how common this is?)

Mystrius_Archaion

Also, weighted drop chances would encourage people to actually play their alts in the content as well, either to get that item type faster or to sell a specific type, which would increase the amount of understanding of more classes and character types while also incentivizing running the content more with a specific build to sell a specific type of weapon.

There is absolutely no downside to players for this idea.

The only people who would ever see a downside are those who just "don't want scrubs to get dat same lootz as mah 1337 self", and these people are not good people or good for the game actually staying alive with enough paying players.

So, if you don't want the game to die because it becomes discouraging to new players who can't find a group because the established players won't invite them or already quit the content because they farmed it enough and many of them leave also then you really need to support making things smarter in how they are obtained.
Anything locked behind group content requires a group and if nobody else wants to group then nobody will ever do it and it becomes a forgotten piece of wasted development time and money and contributes to the reasons for anybody leaving because "there isn't enough to do".

Feanor

The problem is that "smart loot" works the way that it doesn't drop a set piece only if the 5pc can't be utilized in any way at all. That's why stuff like a restoration staff of the hunt drops from vMA. It's not really very smart.

SaintSubwayy

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

You can't retrait the wrong type of weapon. How do you retrait a shield into a restoration staff or destruction staff or bow?
That's the problem.

actually since its a trial you can trade the dropped items arround for 2 hrs. It seems it'd be hard af to do this in pug groups for the first 2-3 month anyways. So IF you're running it with your guild im sure some ppl will give the items you want to you for free. Even in the wrong traits.

kojou

ZoS weights drop chances all the time... they figure out the pieces of sets that everybody wants and sets their drop rate to near 0.0000000001%. That way you have to run the content more to get what you want.

If the Destro Staff becomes the most desirable piece then it will soon be the one that drops the least...

NyassaV

Retrait is nice, I can work with that, but I'm tried of getting vMA ice staves

Mystrius_Archaion

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

You can't retrait the wrong type of weapon. How do you retrait a shield into a restoration staff or destruction staff or bow?
That's the problem.

actually since its a trial you can trade the dropped items arround for 2 hrs. It seems it'd be hard af to do this in pug groups for the first 2-3 month anyways. So IF you're running it with your guild im sure some ppl will give the items you want to you for free. Even in the wrong traits.

That doesn't apply to Veteran Maelstrom Arena or when nobody in the 12 person trial group, due to RNG, gets the weapon that you need most or decides not to trade because they are allowed to be selfish(I'm guilty of it often enough like anybody else can choose to be),
You can say all you want on the forums that "I would trade and so would anybody else" /carebearstare, but you're either a minority(thank you for being so) or would change that position in the moment especially if the content felt so difficult that you really hate repeating it.

So, do you have a better easier solution to solo incorrect item type drops and group RNG and selfishness?


Edit:
Maybe, I would possibly be less selfish if I had friends in the group, but I'm not going to give up what I can use for an alt to some random I never met before and likely won't play with again, unless they offer up the item I really need more for my main and most common build type and I don't already have it.
I'm selfish until it benefits me or my friends not to be, just like most other people. #sorrynotsorry

Mystrius_Archaion

Feanor wrote: »

The problem is that "smart loot" works the way that it doesn't drop a set piece only if the 5pc can't be utilized in any way at all. That's why stuff like a restoration staff of the hunt drops from vMA. It's not really very smart.

That's how it currently works. They have done a lot to remove those "completely wrong set" type pieces as they have noted in previous patch notes.
And actually, that happens because the loot generator code isn't smart. It just picks from random sets and a completely random item type, weighted for what sets are possible and what item they think should drop, like legs or jewelry or weapons, on a specific enemy. They still also leave some of those odd combinations in for those who like the oddball weapon for the second bar.

You can't say my idea would not work because it currently works in very many games out there, many of which are far older than this one. It's also relatively easy when they already have drop pool code to separate out other things and adding a little "generate random number, if 1-50 then x, if 51-75 then y, if else z". That's almost all the code they would need.

Nestor

Lets get them to remove the Staffs from Stamina Sets, and the Melee weapons from Magic Sets first.

Then we can see about getting them to weight drops.

Mystrius_Archaion

Nestor wrote: »

Lets get them to remove the Staffs from Stamina Sets, and the Melee weapons from Magic Sets first.

Then we can see about getting them to weight drops.

How about at the same time?
But, there are some people who like those weapons in those sets, either for the second bar or because they want those set bonuses. So that is short-sighted and unnecessary to just remove them.

Also, if they do make this weighted drop chances happen then they can also have it check if the player actually has the item equipped or in inventory(yes, games can check that when loot drops) and then revert to normal random drop chances.



Am I arguing with people who have no idea how to code anything and thus no idea how simple and awesome this would easily be?