Why Is Soul Assault Looked Down Upon More Than Shield Ult?

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

RE: SA vs SnB ulti.
It's a terrible ultimate in a 1v1.

@DDuke

This is how I read all these kinds of posts:

Magus wrote: »

RE: SA vs SnB ulti.
It's a terrible ultimate in a 1v1.I don't play medium armor.

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

RE: SA vs SnB ulti.
It's a terrible ultimate in a 1v1.

@DDuke

This is how I read all these kinds of posts:

Magus wrote: »

RE: SA vs SnB ulti.
It's a terrible ultimate in a 1v1.I don't play medium armor.

Medium and light are just entirely at a loss compared to heavy.

Realisticly what keeps light relevant are: transmutation, wizards riposte and shield(stacking/necro 50k+ magica).
Medium armor has the problem of not only offering bad defensive sets but also offering offensive sets that don´t compare to heavy.
This gets topped off by medium being too "sneak focused" in passives - as a direct result of this sneak focus we will most likely not see medium armor receive in combat buffs.

amir412

Magus wrote: »

RE: SA vs SnB ulti.
SA is typically used in an Xv1 environment. It's a terrible ultimate in a 1v1. It's a zerg enabling tool, that is most effective used hiding behind 20 other people and just ulting them from ranged safety. The part where it pulls them from cloak and can't be roll dodged triggers saltlords the most, because the type of person to complain is a stam nightblade running eternal hunt set in medium armor and using shadow image and cloak for escape and mobility, they aren''t build for blocking, which is the only counter to this for a stam build, block and heal. Magicka user can easily just spam harness magicka to make this skill completely useless.
Likewise, SnB ulti is a terrible ultimate in a 1v1. It's semi anti-zerg tool, as it scales very nice against multiple attackers. Make no mistake, it's very easy to hold block and heal until out of stam, cast SnB ulti to regen stam and/or mist form around. When you see 10 people wailing on a tank, it's because of sword and board ulti and LoSing with mist form around trees and rocks. Without that tool, they would not live as long as they do. There's more synergy to it than that but not worth going into.

So in short, SA gets more hate because it's more of a zerg tool, SnB ulti gets less hate but it's sorta anti-zerg. The saltlords getting salty about it are probably trying to small man, the SA ruins their small man experience, while the SnB ulti makes it possible. Like you mentioned, you can't do anything else while channeling SA, so if a small man tried to use it in outnumbered situations, they would get melted.

For second part about, the PVP perceptions, when those small mans happily surf 40 people in their alliance and kill you. Then you kill their small man with 10, you are a zergling while they are not.

LEL, Soul Ass is by far op in 1 vs 1.
You should really change the enemies ur'e fighting in duels...

UppGRAYxDD

Is it bad that I use SA on my front and SnB ulti on back bar....

mb10

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Is it bad that I use SA on my front and SnB ulti on back bar....

@UppGRAYxDD

Its not bad at all in my opinion. The skills are available in the game so why should you not use them.

Its like going to war and being at the armory and saying "ah ill pick the lesser weapon or else our opponents will say Im doing things the easy way"

Mazbt

People are like l2p when complaining about soul assault but the s/b ulti (which I back bar when my buff bar is a s/b) is like a hard counter to it. No nerf needed.

BohnT

Both ults need to be nerfed.

Oh no he said the forbidden word.
Yes i and i stand to it.
If you think that Resto ult, S&B ult, Warden trees, Harness magicka shieldbreaker, birds or soulstrike are balanced you are either ignorant or just too bad to use things to their full potential.

All these things grant you way too much survivability, sustain or damage or they hard counter certain playstyles.

Soulstrike is a Xv1 nightmare for everyone and a death sentence for medium armor builds who are not at full resources.

Shieldult protects you from 28 block cost ticks. Meaning on a char that only wears S&B it can save you 38707,2 Stamina on any build.
That means a magicka spec can block as long as a stamina spec at full stam while getting 3.5 stamina regen ticks and having no stamina issues afterwards.
And with 100 ult cost you can easily spam it back to back making you invulnerable while you can go full offensive mode. If you actually think S&B ult is used by troll builds that can't kill you you haven't met a good player with it yet.

Restoult and Warden trees can keep you alive even when 6 ppl are hitting you.
You get 6 ticks from resto ult, on my magnb i can get 84k health back over 5 seconds while dealing 15% more crit damage and having major protection on me for 9 seconds. So in order to kill me my enemy has to deal 109.2k damage to me to actually touch my health. Well let's be honest even in PvE this would be hard for many players and in pvp they deal 50% less damage to me.
With 100 ult cost you can spam it. The old defensive ults are much more expensive and are less effective.
Warden ult costs 75 ult or 55 ult depending on its morph but in practice they are the same. Both can be used to give you their effect at all time.
That is ridiculous having the effects of an ultimate for 100% of the time during a fight. No other ultimate can do that.

Harness magicka restores more magicka than it costs while giving you a decent shield ~8-11k. So you actually gain something from using your defensive ability along with its effect on your survivability.

Shieldbreaker, Soulstrike and birds are plain hard counters. And hard counters are just bad for a game. If you lose a fight simply by having a spec that can be killed without any chance for you to win the fight is the most stupid thing in the history of video games.
You should always have a chance to win a fight against an equally skilled player no matter which spec you are using. (Talking about competetive usefull specs, not deaths wind + galerions revenge medium armor mag sorcs)

Alpheu5

mb10 wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Is it bad that I use SA on my front and SnB ulti on back bar....

@UppGRAYxDD

Its not bad at all in my opinion. The skills are available in the game so why should you not use them.

Its like going to war and being at the armory and saying "ah ill pick the lesser weapon or else our opponents will say Im doing things the easy way"

A dead opponent IRL can't say you have a small willie.

#ESOpride

Biro123

mb10 wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Is it bad that I use SA on my front and SnB ulti on back bar....

@UppGRAYxDD

Its not bad at all in my opinion. The skills are available in the game so why should you not use them.

Its like going to war and being at the armory and saying "ah ill pick the lesser weapon or else our opponents will say Im doing things the easy way"

So is it bad of me to NOT use them?

I'm so confused... Somebody tell me if I'm bad or not!!

SodanTok

Biro123 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Is it bad that I use SA on my front and SnB ulti on back bar....

@UppGRAYxDD

Its not bad at all in my opinion. The skills are available in the game so why should you not use them.

Its like going to war and being at the armory and saying "ah ill pick the lesser weapon or else our opponents will say Im doing things the easy way"

So is it bad of me to NOT use them?

I'm so confused... Somebody tell me if I'm bad or not!!

Well, you need one to counter the second. Anything is free to take really. You start being bad once you jump on forum and say how soul assault is bad and everyone should l2p while in game you just use it off cooldown every time you see dodge roller, because they deserve it, because they dodged all your attacks when you wanted to kill them.

Everybody should use soul assault. Once people start getting hit by soul assault every 4 seconds they will quickly change their mind about playing in medium and we may finally see some buffs

Biro123

I quite like using meteor to counter soul-assault.

Drummerx04

To all the people saying you don't get Xv1ed by resto or shield ult... I call bull. When I'm kiting around a bunch of people, turn around to burst one of them, they just break free and resto/shield ult and continue attacking me with a temporary God Mode.

Try a 1v2 where both of them have a resto ult and they cover each other with it, or being a projectile mag build while fighting an s&b stamina user popping shield ult when you switch focus to stop him from shield charge spamming you while you are getting zerged down.

The defensive weapon ults are ridiculous.

Minno

Drummerx04 wrote: »

To all the people saying you don't get Xv1ed by resto or shield ult... I call bull. When I'm kiting around a bunch of people, turn around to burst one of them, they just break free and resto/shield ult and continue attacking me with a temporary God Mode.

Try a 1v2 where both of them have a resto ult and they cover each other with it, or being a projectile mag build while fighting an s&b stamina user popping shield ult when you switch focus to stop him from shield charge spamming you while you are getting zerged down.

The defensive weapon ults are ridiculous.

The resto ulti has better time hitting you than healing Ward does. I'm not sure how it works, but I remember once trying to cast out on my buddy who was half health and it gave it to me at 80% or so. Bizarre lol.

Drummerx04

Minno wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

To all the people saying you don't get Xv1ed by resto or shield ult... I call bull. When I'm kiting around a bunch of people, turn around to burst one of them, they just break free and resto/shield ult and continue attacking me with a temporary God Mode.

Try a 1v2 where both of them have a resto ult and they cover each other with it, or being a projectile mag build while fighting an s&b stamina user popping shield ult when you switch focus to stop him from shield charge spamming you while you are getting zerged down.

The defensive weapon ults are ridiculous.

The resto ulti has better time hitting you than healing Ward does. I'm not sure how it works, but I remember once trying to cast out on my buddy who was half health and it gave it to me at 80% or so. Bizarre lol.

Regardless, the defensive ults are arguably a bigger slap in the face (for me) when being zerged down then Soul Assault. Like, you outnumber me 8 to 1 and you pop 3 defensive ultimates just in case I could have killed you or one of your 7 friends as you run me down on horseback? gtfo! lol

Bam_Bam

Would love this ulti to do something different. At the moment its just a gash players Jesus Beam.

Would like to see it used to increase weapon/spell damage while its firing - you then get the bonus damage for 15 seconds once it fully loaded (max added damage) or the beam is broken by LoS (random added damage). could also mess around with the cost and possible cooldown.

Baconlad

If your a stam build...and having issues with soul assault...its because you decided you wanted to stack damage of different types and not passive mitigation...if the toon using soul assault is hitting for MASSIVE amounts...it could be the he is also a glass cannon build, and begging for you to open him like a cooked green bean.

I find it funny that you complain about magic toons options for defensive gear such as transmutation or wizards riposte. You think if i wanted to deal MAX damage i would wear one of these sets? No i would not, plenty of more damaging sets out there, i chose wizards riposte or transmutation because i dont like dying to your crit charge, wrecking blow, light attack, *** you combo. Of course many different choices, the point being that your max damage spec was a counter to my squish butt. So i chose to become more passively deffensive.

Its funny that you never hear of any other magick classes like templar or mag dk complaining about soul assault...and no these classes do not commonly wear damage shields. Reason they dont is because its stupid how easy it is to counter. Why do you think stamina is any different? Personally i would rather get hit by it on my med stamplar than on my light magplar...

You can learn how to build passive mitigation, it happens with an end to your obsession with max damage and a realization that there are other ways to build or play. Have a problem with a skill? Build to counter it...so freaking simple why do we have to explain so many times that you need to rebuild? Max damage is for gankers and zerg surfers...no one else worth their salt should be aiming for it

SodanTok

Baconlad wrote: »

If your a stam build...and having issues with soul assault...its because you decided you wanted to stack damage of different types and not passive mitigation...if the toon using soul assault is hitting for MASSIVE amounts...it could be the he is also a glass cannon build, and begging for you to open him like a cooked green bean.

I find it funny that you complain about magic toons options for defensive gear such as transmutation or wizards riposte. You think if i wanted to deal MAX damage i would wear one of these sets? No i would not, plenty of more damaging sets out there, i chose wizards riposte or transmutation because i dont like dying to your crit charge, wrecking blow, light attack, *** you combo. Of course many different choices, the point being that your max damage spec was a counter to my squish butt. So i chose to become more passively deffensive.

Its funny that you never hear of any other magick classes like templar or mag dk complaining about soul assault...and no these classes do not commonly wear damage shields. Reason they dont is because its stupid how easy it is to counter. Why do you think stamina is any different? Personally i would rather get hit by it on my med stamplar than on my light magplar...

You can learn how to build passive mitigation, it happens with an end to your obsession with max damage and a realization that there are other ways to build or play. Have a problem with a skill? Build to counter it...so freaking simple why do we have to explain so many times that you need to rebuild? Max damage is for gankers and zerg surfers...no one else worth their salt should be aiming for it

Easy to say 'build mitigation' and using light/heavy examples. First has access to shield and damage passives that do not require using damage boosting set. Second has already great passive mitigation and access to the best damage sets in the game. You can build tanky medium losing some of the damage power. You also can build tankier heavy armor getting even more damage.
So yes, people are building to counter soul assault (and other high damage) by playing in heavy.

Also nobody cares about the damage. At least noone slightly better than noob player cares. The power of the damage is that it is too high to NOT BLOCK it and block is what screws you on medium. You literally pay half of your stam pool not to die to this ultimate.


I feel like people giving advice to build more tankier medium have no idea what the passives on medium actually do.