The final nail in the medium armor coffin: undodgeable CC's for DK and Sorcs

ManDraKE

Adding a plethora of undodgeable skills and ultimates wasn't enough to kill the already crippled medium armor on PvP, so they took the next step and added undodgeable CC for everyone. Now the main (and only) defense of medium armor builds is 100% out of the picture.

GJ ZoS, last patch you took an small step in the right direction with balance, and now you are going 2 steps back.

Ocelot9x

They keep beating a dead horse,I think I'm the only one playing medium Stam dk on my server (yeah, those cp130 dont count)

Vapirko

Forum QQers win again.

Feanor

The armour lines just need a major overhaul. HA needs to be brought down, MA and LA buffed, and when LA is buffed you can get rid of shield stacking.

kaithuzar

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

Beardimus

Do people even know about Rune, it was unblockable anyway lol

This is hardly a game changer at all, just salty QQ as with every change....

Docmandu

Newsflash: they both already had undodgeable CC. But now it doesn't break when they attack you, meaning you HAVE to CC break it to get out of it... that's the big change. Before you could just wait until the DK/Sorc hit you and broke his own CC (which many people didn't seem to realize).

Docmandu

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

3) warden with necropotence

kaithuzar

Docmandu wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

3) warden with necropotence

Oh, I forgot about blood spawn + decisive resto ult spam

WillhelmBlack

4) DK

Chilly-McFreeze

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

kaithuzar wrote: »

There are officially 2 methods for pvp'ing
1) roll sorc
2) if not sorc, use shieldbreaker

Wow, I should make an album out of your words of wisdowm. But I've got one of my own:

There are only 2 methods for being a pvp NB on this forum.
1) downplay the own class
2) cry out for sorc nerfs

Subversus

Not like any good sorc or mdk would be able to lose to a medium armor build, this just makes the fight easier

Drdeath20

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

kaithuzar wrote: »

There are officially 2 methods for pvp'ing
1) roll sorc
2) if not sorc, use shieldbreaker

Wow, I should make an album out of your words of wisdowm. But I've got one of my own:

There are only 2 methods for being a pvp NB on this forum.
1) downplay the own class
2) cry out for sorc nerfs

Sorcs are easy mode

Biro123

Vapirko wrote: »

Forum QQers win again.

The only forum QQ's I ever see are 'Sorc OP, Waah!'. Anything else is just countering the over-inflated views as to why.

I don't think I've seen any thread titles lately saying that med is too strong and needs nerfing..

Docmandu

kaithuzar wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

3) warden with necropotence

Oh, I forgot about blood spawn + decisive resto ult spam

I use neither on my warden... yet still able to survive in light armor...

Chilly-McFreeze

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

kaithuzar wrote: »

There are officially 2 methods for pvp'ing
1) roll sorc
2) if not sorc, use shieldbreaker

Wow, I should make an album out of your words of wisdowm. But I've got one of my own:

There are only 2 methods for being a pvp NB on this forum.
1) downplay the own class
2) cry out for sorc nerfs

Sorcs are easy mode

You may confuse skill floor and skill cap. Is sorc easy to pick up? Sure, no one argues about that. But to master this class is something different. It's just blatant annoying that the forum is full of QQ about sorcs all while ignoring in which ways they lack and other classes come ahead, especially from people that seem to have never ran a mS. They just read tooltips or patch notes and come to a conclusion they never really tested themselfs. But that's just the pack mentality. If the forum states something is OP, it must be OP.

QQ about rune cage changing to an unblockable stu while forgetting that Rune Cage already is unblockable.
QQ about Mass Hysteria getting nerfed without acknowleding that MoT will fear 3x as much players than on live.
Just as two examples.

Brrrofski

I mean, this was undodgeable and unlockable anyway.

The real change here is now it doesn't break on damage. Honestly, it's not a huge change. You would still eat the next attack anyway. I can't see many sorcs finding room for it on their bar anyway.

I do agree that medium armor is bad though. I use it on a stamblade. Anything else, why would I not use heavy? Just stick fury, 7th, ravager on and you're good to go. There is little deterrent to use it.

Aedaryl

Rune cage is not OP at all.

Firstly it was already unblockable and used to make combo touch.

Secondly sorc have already an undogeable cc : streak.

Ocelot9x

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

kaithuzar wrote: »

There are officially 2 methods for pvp'ing
1) roll sorc
2) if not sorc, use shieldbreaker

Wow, I should make an album out of your words of wisdowm. But I've got one of my own:

There are only 2 methods for being a pvp NB on this forum.
1) downplay the own class
2) cry out for sorc nerfs

Sorcs are easy mode

You may confuse skill floor and skill cap. Is sorc easy to pick up? Sure, no one argues about that. But to master this class is something different. It's just blatant annoying that the forum is full of QQ about sorcs all while ignoring in which ways they lack and other classes come ahead, especially from people that seem to have never ran a mS. They just read tooltips or patch notes and come to a conclusion they never really tested themselfs. But that's just the pack mentality. If the forum states something is OP, it must be OP.

QQ about rune cage changing to an unblockable stu while forgetting that Rune Cage already is unblockable.
QQ about Mass Hysteria getting nerfed without acknowleding that MoT will fear 3x as much players than on live.
Just as two examples.

1)
Of course the forum is full of thread about sorc,but every time they got zerged by the sorc community
2)
Fossilize was undodgeable but if outnumbered you didn't have to break free,just roll,now you all spend 5k more stamina. I'm not sure runecage was already undodgeable,and no one cares about the unblockable part.
3)
Master the sorc is easy. Just remember to shield every rotation and the burst is easy to learn. Doesn't seems so difficult lol
(Played sorc for few months then I got bored)
4)
I love people saying "yeah medium armor need a buff.. LA too" lol LA is finr, lately I've seen a lot of people running it on their magdk(still cancerous permablocking,5 impreg sturdy) and templars. LA has a lot of damage 5k pen > 10% WD and still lot of survivability thanks to their main resource recovery active while blocking (you can't do a block build in medium armor),lot of burst heals (you can spam many of those,try spamming 2 rally in 3 seconds) and last but not least mistforming > roll dodge for LoS

Maulkin

Brrrofski wrote: »

I mean, this was undodgeable and unlockable anyway.

The real change here is now it doesn't break on damage. Honestly, it's not a huge change. You would still eat the next attack anyway. I can't see many sorcs finding room for it on their bar anyway.

Absolutely. It's a decent buff on the skill but who's gonna run it?

Non-pet Sorc in small scale PvP will almost certainly roll with: 3 Shields, Streak, Power Surge, Crushy, Frags, Curse, Execute... that's 9 skills. Which means Prison is competing for the last spot with Boundless Storm, Dark Deal and Mines. Very unlikely to get a look in ahead of the former two. Nobody sane would be pick it as Sorcs can use Streak CC to land Meteor-Curse-Execute burst.

AoE spec'ed Sorcs won't even bother as they need space for Encase and Wall of Elements and they don't have many single target abilities.

Ultimately, I only see people using it in duels to land burst on perma-blocking tanks. Outside of that very niche scenario I don't really see the benefit.

Brrrofski

Maulkin wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I mean, this was undodgeable and unlockable anyway.

The real change here is now it doesn't break on damage. Honestly, it's not a huge change. You would still eat the next attack anyway. I can't see many sorcs finding room for it on their bar anyway.

Absolutely. It's a decent buff on the skill but who's gonna run it?

Non-pet Sorc in small scale PvP will almost certainly roll with: 3 Shields, Streak, Power Surge, Crushy, Frags, Curse, Execute... that's 9 skills. Which means Prison is competing for the last spot with Boundless Storm, Dark Deal and Mines. Very unlikely to get a look in ahead of the former two. Nobody sane would be pick it as Sorcs can use Streak CC to land Meteor-Curse-Execute burst.

AoE spec'ed Sorcs won't even bother as they need space for Encase and Wall of Elements and they don't have many single target abilities.

Ultimately, I only see people using it in duels to land burst on perma-blocking tanks. Outside of that very niche scenario I don't really see the benefit.

Yeh, that is every sorcs bar lol. Nailed it.

My choice is mines, but the other two are used. Nobody runs overload anymore because resto ulti is too good. So this won't be an issue in PvP. I use DB as my ult anyway, so I really don't need rune.

Yeh, someone in a 20 man group will have a job at spamming it. But that's more a problem of group combat more than anything.

Chilly-McFreeze

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

kaithuzar wrote: »

There are officially 2 methods for pvp'ing
1) roll sorc
2) if not sorc, use shieldbreaker

Wow, I should make an album out of your words of wisdowm. But I've got one of my own:

There are only 2 methods for being a pvp NB on this forum.
1) downplay the own class
2) cry out for sorc nerfs

Sorcs are easy mode

You may confuse skill floor and skill cap. Is sorc easy to pick up? Sure, no one argues about that. But to master this class is something different. It's just blatant annoying that the forum is full of QQ about sorcs all while ignoring in which ways they lack and other classes come ahead, especially from people that seem to have never ran a mS. They just read tooltips or patch notes and come to a conclusion they never really tested themselfs. But that's just the pack mentality. If the forum states something is OP, it must be OP.

QQ about rune cage changing to an unblockable stu while forgetting that Rune Cage already is unblockable.
QQ about Mass Hysteria getting nerfed without acknowleding that MoT will fear 3x as much players than on live.
Just as two examples.

1)
Of course the forum is full of thread about sorc,but every time they got zerged by the sorc community
2)
Fossilize was undodgeable but if outnumbered you didn't have to break free,just roll,now you all spend 5k more stamina. I'm not sure runecage was already undodgeable,and no one cares about the unblockable part.
3)
Master the sorc is easy. Just remember to shield every rotation and the burst is easy to learn. Doesn't seems so difficult lol
(Played sorc for few months then I got bored)
4)
I love people saying "yeah medium armor need a buff.. LA too" lol LA is finr, lately I've seen a lot of people running it on their magdk(still cancerous permablocking,5 impreg sturdy) and templars. LA has a lot of damage 5k pen > 10% WD and still lot of survivability thanks to their main resource recovery active while blocking (you can't do a block build in medium armor),lot of burst heals (you can spam many of those,try spamming 2 rally in 3 seconds) and last but not least mistforming > roll dodge for LoS

1) You mean just like the QQ community zergs the forum? Or are you trying to say that you just want one side of the story, a pat on the shoulder and confirmation without letting players who know this class very well let have their opinion be heard? By your choice of words and how Sorc players PoV get's ignored continously in these kind of threads I guess it's the latter.

2) Not sure about the undodgeable part of RC either. But I agree, these changes are not needed and iIrc are to encourage larger encounters since disorients always broke in anything but 1v1 situations. Talk about raising the floor.

3) Strongly disagree here. Not going too deeply into this, just remark that the main and only defense of this class is shield stacking. Or did I miss the boni to healing or blocking we know from other classes? Also doesn't chance the fact that mS burst is easily predictable and, if you didn't only fought scrubs, you should be well aware how easily it's countered.

4) Don't know where you get this demand from. Haven't read anything about "LA needs a buff" lately. Granted, I don't have the time nor the will to read every thread. Personally, I think LA and HA are in great spots with MA being rather lackluster due to numerous counters to their primary defense.

Feanor

@Chilly-McFreeze

I advocated a buff to LA if shields get changed. Or else you'll be better off just running HA like everyone else already does.

Aerem

ManDraKE wrote: »

Adding a plethora of undodgeable skills and ultimates wasn't enough to kill the already crippled medium armor on PvP, so they took the next step and added undodgeable CC for everyone. Now the main (and only) defense of medium armor builds is 100% out of the picture.

GJ ZoS, last patch you took an small step in the right direction with balance, and now you are going 2 steps back.

You do realize Petrify has been an undodgeable CC since pretty much forever right?

STEVIL

i could have sworn i have seen the "death of medium armor" thread several times before... so how is this killing it since it is already dead thread after thread ago?

Lexxypwns

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

I strongly disagree with you here. I think light armor is BiS on ALL magika builds that are also required to kill people. The passives are too efficient and hard to replace, whereas the advantages of heavy can be added back into your build rather easily. You can't just wear light, completely forgo passive defense, and expect to just be tanky by existing. Riposte, trans, bloodspawn, chudan, pirate skelly, or 1pc chudan 1pc pirate are all viable defensive options for light armor, so is impregnable in sturdy with permablock.

I do agree that if you're trying to play light armor without any sort of additional mitigation that you're in for a hurting, but I think that applies to mag sorc as well.

Also, both of these have been undodgeable since like 2016

Riggsy

MMAGA!
The changes would be fairly simple but ZOS refuses to entertain them.

kaithuzar

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

kaithuzar wrote: »

There are officially 2 methods for pvp'ing
1) roll sorc
2) if not sorc, use shieldbreaker

Wow, I should make an album out of your words of wisdowm. But I've got one of my own:

There are only 2 methods for being a pvp NB on this forum.
1) downplay the own class
2) cry out for sorc nerfs

You do realize I was joking/laughing about those post right?
I'm not certain if I've ever actually asked for sorc nerfs, can you point me to where are on the forum I've done so?
I have however, asked for sorc not to be buffed, which is what I think most people are doing as there isn't a current need for it in the opinion of almost every non-sorc.

Minno

kaithuzar wrote: »

Right now there are only 2 effective methods for wearing light armor in pvp.
1) play as sorc
2) if not sorc then wizard riposte

3) 4k crit resist+ resist stack+adding healing received.

kaithuzar

Biro123 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Forum QQers win again.

The only forum QQ's I ever see are 'Sorc OP, Waah!'. Anything else is just countering the over-inflated views as to why.

I don't think I've seen any thread titles lately saying that med is too strong and needs nerfing..

In order for medium armor to need a nerf it would have to be OP, which it never has been. It's been competitive, but not OP.
People cry over sorc but there's also plenty of references on the forum for why, I suggest you search around as I'm not going to do the searching for you.
It's already been posted by other people but lets go through one more time: (in order assuming all pts changes go live)

mobility: sorc, nb, warden, magplar, dk - clear winner is sorc with streak/bol, cloak doesn't purge dots like it use to & only works sometimes

dps: sorc, nb, dk, warden, magplar - sorc gets a spell damage buff just for putting sorc abilities on their bar; GG

cc: dk, sorc, nb, magplar, warden - they're nerfing nb cc's & buffing sorc cc's; GG

tankiness: dk, sorc, magplar, nb, warden - sorc comes in 2nd b/c shield stacking is still a thing & pets typically have to be killed 1st allowing them to use their mobility listed above to just escape the situation & not die.

healing: magplar, warden, dk, nb, sorc - the one thing sorc isn't great at; congrats there is 1 thing!

Ragnaroek93

Medium armor is a complete joke right now, I will just go heavy armor on my nightblade now and join this dumb facetank train. It's just laughable, you die so easily while light armor and heavy armor can just do mistake after mistake after mistake.

Don't see the issue with magicka sorcs anymore, the other magicka classes seem way superior (just more difficult to play). Magsorc is just a good newbie stomper these days and can't do anything against the stupid bruiser meta.