I am disgusted...

auronessb16_ESO

Zypheran wrote: »

...Also, guilds can be great places where players of all experience levels can do content together without the aggressive reactions that can sometimes be found in PUGs

I know there are good people, but I'm on a console, without a mic or keyboard. Communication with guild mates is near impossible, which is why I get booted from guilds, even when I am active. I need to accept that I cannot enjoy much of ESO.

I posted in this thread to let @Vimora know that not everyone is not out to make his life miserable. Some people just want to be a part of things too.

Slick_007

theamazingx wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

[

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

You literally felt nauseated or repulsed by somebody with low DPS?!
A bit extreme don't you think?
Everyone has low DPS at the beginning. Its new players coming in every week (with their low DSP) that keeps this game alive.

In the beginning? You realize that many of the players in question are cp300+, right?

and many of those players may not have done dungeons where it mattered. since overland is almost doable blindfolded, people wouldnt know.

starkerealm

Trashkan wrote: »

Hey now I am pulling 12k with my level 27 Khajiit. Just cause he's fat and challenged doesn't mean he can't play.

12k is fine. Less than you would like for a vet run, but for non-vet dungeon runs, that's cool. It's the players with 4k DPS or lower that are the subject of this rant.

And, yeah, I still remember seeing a group almost wipe on Bloodspawn normal after OneTam dropped. Still not even sure how that's possible.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

While you expect people to go your speed.

I don't expect that - and never said so.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

starkerealm wrote: »

Trashkan wrote: »

Hey now I am pulling 12k with my level 27 Khajiit. Just cause he's fat and challenged doesn't mean he can't play.

12k is fine. Less than you would like for a vet run, but for non-vet dungeon runs, that's cool. It's the players with 4k DPS or lower that are the subject of this rant.

And, yeah, I still remember seeing a group almost wipe on Bloodspawn normal after OneTam dropped. Still not even sure how that's possible.

Dont be mean... they might have no arms. /joke

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

While you expect people to go your speed.

I don't expect that - and never said so.

mask it how you want.

RANKK7

I understand this is one of those days in which it's a big risk to pug as a healer, BC2 (not bugged anymore) CoA2 and Falkhreat are too much in one day even if you don't plan to do the dlc one in hm since that requires truly lucky pug
BUT
ZOS is the only one to blame.

There is not requirement to enter those places, you are good to go even if your dps would be 1 and obviously the players paid for the game and want to enjoy the content, there is no warning whatsoever you will be considered an awful disgrace.

No tutorials teaching roles, I mean it's the basic of this game in terms of pve, as there is no word about the minimum damage you are supposed to do during those runs in order to be considered smooth runs (or at least not tragic), so the newcomer say: oh look, a dungeon I CAN ENTER and it's NOT his fault.

Who is to blame? ZOS

Even worse, there is no explanation whatsoever in game about how the game works for newcomers, hell we must install an addon in order to know our penetration! And of course there is not even explanation of what penetration is for that matter, as anything else.

Who is to blame?

So yes, I agree about to be disgusted, by ZOS though.

The more I see the more this game studio seems to be the nemesis of its own customers. Add some damn INFO in game about how the game works!

zaria

puffytheslayer wrote: »

Trashkan wrote: »

Hey now I am pulling 12k with my level 27 Khajiit. Just cause he's fat and challenged doesn't mean he can't play.

but 12K DPS is more than adequate for normal dungeons & most non DLC vet dungeons!

This, if the other DD did 12 to and 6 from tank and healer and group dps is 30. this works well in pretty much any content

jaws343

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

I've played solo for 8 months, guilds never seem to work out for me. But all the hype about awesome group dungeons, people talking about trophy and helmets. I wanted to see what it was like. First few random dungeons were fun. I could hold my own, not die very often and not get left behind. I thought the random dungeons were based on average level of the group, and a mid-30's character would make it little easier for everyone.

Then I was placed in White Gold Tower. I didn't even know a person could be voted out, but I found out. Now I quit when I find out it is one of the Imperial City dungeons, I know I am not good enough and never will be. I've got better armor, better weapons, improved buffs and improve my skill selection and want to try again. I'm up to level 45 now. I can do PvE much easier. I like to try random dungeons from time to time, but the anger I get from some groups keeps me out.


I just wish the random (non-vet) dungeon would account for levels. A group of 100+ level people don't want to get stuck with a level 30, and I don't want to disappoint them.

I have completed nWGT with a group of under 30s (We all had CP in the background). Challenging, yes, but no reason to kick before the first boss. Honestly, no reason to ever kick someone before the first boss or at least the first add pull.

Ozstryker

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

I've played solo for 8 months, guilds never seem to work out for me. But all the hype about awesome group dungeons, people talking about trophy and helmets. I wanted to see what it was like. First few random dungeons were fun. I could hold my own, not die very often and not get left behind. I thought the random dungeons were based on average level of the group, and a mid-30's character would make it little easier for everyone.

Then I was placed in White Gold Tower. I didn't even know a person could be voted out, but I found out. Now I quit when I find out it is one of the Imperial City dungeons, I know I am not good enough and never will be. I've got better armor, better weapons, improved buffs and improve my skill selection and want to try again. I'm up to level 45 now. I can do PvE much easier. I like to try random dungeons from time to time, but the anger I get from some groups keeps me out.


I just wish the random (non-vet) dungeon would account for levels. A group of 100+ level people don't want to get stuck with a level 30, and I don't want to disappoint them.

If u are on pc eu hit me up in game, I'll happily tank or heal with you @auronessb16_ESO


Personally I never kick or rage at dd that are underperforming, (I've left a few runs that were not happening). But... generally my pug experience has been positive! Is it worth getting mad at folk on a video game.... really?

Defilted

No one here is offering any solutions to the issue. It is easy to not like something... Harder to fix it so it is "Fair".

Not using the tool it one solution although not a good one.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

While you expect people to go your speed.

I don't expect that - and never said so.

mask it how you want.

No, no, my dear. YOU quote where I said that. You can't throw lies out like this.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Every post you put up lately is implying that EVERYONE has to go as slow as the slowest in the group and that if someone goes fast but isnt kicked they are still doing something wrong... Two sided.. der..

bebynnag

Defilted wrote: »

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to resolve this through group finder?

Should players be rated somehow and then put together based on the rating? Like 3 good rates and 1 bad one for example? Should you be able to determine the lowest rated players you will group with (This will of course make the wait longer).

Should rating determine what dungeons you can queue for in group finder? For example you must complete X dungeons at Y difficulty in order to qualify to run Z dungeon. Different dungeons could be rated differently. From easiest to hardest...

This of course does not stop people from forming their own groups and going into whatever dungeon they want, whenever they want.

If you start rating players internally within the system what would you rate them on?
DPS Overall
DPS Boss only
Healers HPS overall
Healers HPS Boss only
Tank, How do you mathematically rate a tank?

Should only DPS have ratings? So if I queue as DPS I am now in a rated queue. What is to stop people from doing what they do now and that is queue as a tank or healer?

Maybe we make the player with that character determine what they are going to queue as and lock them to that for 24 hours. This of course back fires if they choose a healer and they are DPS.

I understand it is frustrating. I have been there many times myself with players that are very clueless and refuse to interact with the group and take suggestions on Boss fights.

Just seems if we start to put systems like this in place it would make it worse not better?

i think a good start would be if zos introduced better tutorials,

you get a PvP tutorial teaching you haw to seige & repair,
why not a Dungeon tutorial teaching you how not to stand in stupid,
if you select DD how to aoe,
if you select tank how to taunt
if you select heal how to (you guessed it) heal

Demolitionary

Half of this problem is due to high CP farmers pushing ahead in random normal causing people new to dungeons not to learn a thing, as, well, by the time they get to the trash mob or boss it is dead. Then those said players think it is normal as it does happen more times than not recently in random normal.

Flameheart

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

I am off from ESO right now since a few weeks, but good to hear nothing has changed :-)

DocFrost72

auronessb16_ESO wrote: »

I've played solo for 8 months, guilds never seem to work out for me. But all the hype about awesome group dungeons, people talking about trophy and helmets. I wanted to see what it was like. First few random dungeons were fun. I could hold my own, not die very often and not get left behind. I thought the random dungeons were based on average level of the group, and a mid-30's character would make it little easier for everyone.

Then I was placed in White Gold Tower. I didn't even know a person could be voted out, but I found out. Now I quit when I find out it is one of the Imperial City dungeons, I know I am not good enough and never will be. I've got better armor, better weapons, improved buffs and improve my skill selection and want to try again. I'm up to level 45 now. I can do PvE much easier. I like to try random dungeons from time to time, but the anger I get from some groups keeps me out.


I just wish the random (non-vet) dungeon would account for levels. A group of 100+ level people don't want to get stuck with a level 30, and I don't want to disappoint them.

If you're on PC NA, send me a mail (@KohtSeht72). I will personally group up with you and run the DLC dungeons on reg, and we'll kick some serious tail. No one should have their first pve experience soured by insecure divas with unrealistic expectations.

Zypheran

puffytheslayer wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to resolve this through group finder?

Should players be rated somehow and then put together based on the rating? Like 3 good rates and 1 bad one for example? Should you be able to determine the lowest rated players you will group with (This will of course make the wait longer).

Should rating determine what dungeons you can queue for in group finder? For example you must complete X dungeons at Y difficulty in order to qualify to run Z dungeon. Different dungeons could be rated differently. From easiest to hardest...

This of course does not stop people from forming their own groups and going into whatever dungeon they want, whenever they want.

If you start rating players internally within the system what would you rate them on?
DPS Overall
DPS Boss only
Healers HPS overall
Healers HPS Boss only
Tank, How do you mathematically rate a tank?

Should only DPS have ratings? So if I queue as DPS I am now in a rated queue. What is to stop people from doing what they do now and that is queue as a tank or healer?

Maybe we make the player with that character determine what they are going to queue as and lock them to that for 24 hours. This of course back fires if they choose a healer and they are DPS.

I understand it is frustrating. I have been there many times myself with players that are very clueless and refuse to interact with the group and take suggestions on Boss fights.

Just seems if we start to put systems like this in place it would make it worse not better?

i think a good start would be if zos introduced better tutorials,

you get a PvP tutorial teaching you haw to seige & repair,
why not a Dungeon tutorial teaching you how not to stand in stupid,
if you select DD how to aoe,
if you select tank how to taunt
if you select heal how to (you guessed it) heal

In fairness to ZOS they have been putting up the player help videos and they are quite good

SoLooney

i just hate skyreach babies that bowtard light attack or heavy attack spam, whats worse is when the vote kick fails like people enjoy absolute miserable dps. dont try to be a hero, if you see a dps severely underperforming in a vet dungeon, do your group a favor and kick him out... until you get a proper rotation down, dont queue for vet dungeons, olease have like 10k dps minimum...

dont care if people disagree with me, i want to get a dungeon done asap, i dont find it fun trying to finish a vet daily dungeon for more than 30min, you dont deserve the two keys if you cant pull at least 10k on your dps char

The_Old_Goat

I'd like to relate my experience tanking 2 dungeons yesterday on my lev. 46 tank. The first que gave me 2 dps'ers in their 20's(not a big deal) then I start noticing that I'm doing roughly 48% of the damage. And I start watching them, one is randomly wandering around the room looking at stuff in between spats of attacks and the other would stop every so often like they were busy texting someone. At the second boss thing's fell apart, the healer died and these guys wouldn't res the healer, even after being asked/told to about 5 times in group chat, so I quietly left. Dungeon number 2 consisted of me, a healer(roughly in the cp100), a dps in the 30's and another in the 300's. The cp300ish fellow insisted we skip bosses and trash packs but refused to answer the dps asking him in group chat 2 or 3 times if it would affect the dungeon quest and he finally started yelling that "if we wanted to pull that other stuff, it was our problem". I can generally make a group with anyone that puts in an effort but things have gotten noticeably worse lately.

WildWilbur

Yeah, sux... To bad there are no guilds or somfing or nuffing...

Khaeon

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

So what's the solution?

Get yourself a guild. Make friends. Socialize. Run with them. Problem solved.

Well from the way he went off this will be a problem for him too.

rotaugen454

My TANK was pulling 20% of group damage recently. I knew I was in trouble when I see a portal and they are halfway through the dungeon. The healer was good. The DPS didn't use any AOE or DOTs, just light attacks. We ground through the normal dungeon, then I tried to tell the DPS how to do much more, but they just left and I was talking to the healer. I reran the dungeon solo with my DPS, and completed the entire thing in half the time of doing the last half. That's pugging, but at least listen to someone who is politely telling you how to do better. Wasn't condescending or insulting, just explained how their DPS could skyrocket with a few changes.

parkham

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

MAKE FRIENDS

bebynnag

Zypheran wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to resolve this through group finder?

Should players be rated somehow and then put together based on the rating? Like 3 good rates and 1 bad one for example? Should you be able to determine the lowest rated players you will group with (This will of course make the wait longer).

Should rating determine what dungeons you can queue for in group finder? For example you must complete X dungeons at Y difficulty in order to qualify to run Z dungeon. Different dungeons could be rated differently. From easiest to hardest...

This of course does not stop people from forming their own groups and going into whatever dungeon they want, whenever they want.

If you start rating players internally within the system what would you rate them on?
DPS Overall
DPS Boss only
Healers HPS overall
Healers HPS Boss only
Tank, How do you mathematically rate a tank?

Should only DPS have ratings? So if I queue as DPS I am now in a rated queue. What is to stop people from doing what they do now and that is queue as a tank or healer?

Maybe we make the player with that character determine what they are going to queue as and lock them to that for 24 hours. This of course back fires if they choose a healer and they are DPS.

I understand it is frustrating. I have been there many times myself with players that are very clueless and refuse to interact with the group and take suggestions on Boss fights.

Just seems if we start to put systems like this in place it would make it worse not better?

i think a good start would be if zos introduced better tutorials,

you get a PvP tutorial teaching you haw to seige & repair,
why not a Dungeon tutorial teaching you how not to stand in stupid,
if you select DD how to aoe,
if you select tank how to taunt
if you select heal how to (you guessed it) heal

In fairness to ZOS they have been putting up the player help videos and they are quite good

have they? because i have no idea that these guides exist,

probably because im on console & the only time zos communicate with us is regarding the crown store....

so i stand by my opion that zos need to incorporate a forced tutorial in the actual game, it will ensure everyone who plays the game is introduced to the fundemental basics of each role rather than just the people who watch these player help videos (wherever they are)

Ommy71

Maybe it's time to find a guild.

theamazingx

It's just bewildering that the average skill level of the playerbase is SO LOW. You could drop 2 dots and heavy attack, and still pull better numbers. No one here is expecting 2 40k dds to show up everytime you use the group finder, but these are literally light attack spammers. They're not completing content "their own way", they're just not completing content, and preventing any group they're a part of from doing so. You shouldn't need a tutorial to know that damage skills are there to do damage. The only way to reliably clear is to be a top tier dps that carries the group kicking and screaming, so support mains are effectively screwed.

I understand playing how you want, I really do. But even the most obscure hybrid roleplay build can perform just fine for this content if the person actually tries. These people aren't even trying.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Khaeon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

So what's the solution?

Get yourself a guild. Make friends. Socialize. Run with them. Problem solved.

Well from the way he went off this will be a problem for him too.

I get that too. The problem is that at some stage it becomes a vicious circle : afraid of people => can't make friends => resorts to randoms => expecting everything from randoms => getting p*ssed by randoms => thinking negatively of people => afraid of people => can't make friends => etc. This circle needs to get broken at some stage.

Not only do I feel a bit sorry for people who are stuck that way, but I am getting increasingly annoyed by people complaining on forums about the community, making it sound as if the ESO community is an awful crowd of demanding, elitist and uncivil people surrounded by leeching scrubs. It's just sooo wrong ! I'm not saying either that we're all angels and all, but still, the ingame community is really nice for the most part. I hate that this image is being spread by some people whose major problem, after all, is their own inability at socializing.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

theamazingx wrote: »

It's just bewildering that the average skill level of the playerbase is SO LOW. You could drop 2 dots and heavy attack, and still pull better numbers. No one here is expecting 2 40k dds to show up everytime you use the group finder, but these are literally light attack spammers. They're not completing content "their own way", they're just not completing content, and preventing any group they're a part of from doing so. You shouldn't need a tutorial to know that damage skills are there to do damage. The only way to reliably clear is to be a top tier dps that carries the group kicking and screaming, so support mains are effectively screwed.

I understand playing how you want, I really do. But even the most obscure hybrid roleplay build can perform just fine for this content if the person actually tries. These people aren't even trying.

Seeing how most the content in the game can actually be completed using light attacks, it isn't really surprising people go into dungeons thinking it will be enough.

CavalryPK

Betheny wrote: »

10 Get an addon that shows group damage so you can kick them; else if on console then buy a PC and goto 10

What's the name if this addon ? I wanna knownfor reasons