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Zenimax, please have a look at this nearly unkillable stamina block build

Letho2469
Letho2469
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Hey, I am posting this although I can imagine that many players already know of it's existence, yet only few know how to do it. Furthermore this post is directed to the developer, as a hint to a possible problem and not intended to be a cry/rage thread. The recent changes to blocking (reducing it to 0.25s)clearly indicate, that Zenimax does not want people to be unkillable via perma blocking or tanking entire zergs, which is the only reason why I created this post.

Please have a look at those two videos:

things get interesting @:0:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3n4F1O6Jy0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45YLm720oKo

To the guys who created them: thanks for not sharing those builds, they would CLEARLY ruin the game if becoming meta.

As both videos prove, it is still easily possible to outtank whole zergs and dish out heavy damage afterwards. Those kind of builds simply destroy pvp, as they are ridiculously overpowered by doing something that the developer, as stated above, probably does not want people to do.

Also heavy armor magicka templars are still close to being unkillable in pvp, despite the recent nerfs.

Please have a look at it and adjust mechanics accordingly.
Trial Progression:
vAA: Hardmode
vHRC: Hardmode
vSO: Hardmode
vMoL: Hardmode + dro-m'Athra-Destroyer
vHoF: Hardmode + Tick Tock Tormentor
vAS: Hardmode + Immortal Redeemer
vCR: Hardmode + Gryphon Heart
vSS: Hardmode
  • Slack
    Slack
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    Malubeth, pariah, leeching plate ? My guess

    All I see is a well built character fighting a horde of gimps.

    You want ZOS to take actions because you assume they don't want such playstyles.
    Putting good sets together and make them work on your char should be rewarded.
    Only "effective" way to prevent such things is...more nerfs..
    Or implement something like a set-block option - "you may not use set X because you already have Y equipped" and that would be absolute *** for pve
    Edited by Slack on August 31, 2017 7:48PM
    PC EU
    Betty Breeze - Magwarden
    Hunts S'hitblades - Stamplar
    Aschavi - Magplar
  • Koolio
    Koolio
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    I'll have to take a better look at the video but from what I can see it's a bunch of unorganized people not coordinating anything. Didn't really see any unblockable dots or fears. Saw one guy literally resto heavy attacking the whole time. Random ultimates here and there. I personally like this about pvp. Even 1 guy can cause issues for groups of plebs. I'll watch again in a little while and repost if needed.
  • SodanTok
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    I dont know what ZoS wants or does not want or what is broken and what is not, but by simply comparing what you say to what i saw...

    I think you are confused what whole zerg and heavy damage means. Nowhere in this videos he tanked whole zerg and then dish out heavy damage. Everytime he was against more than 10 people he just died.
    And all the people he killed were noobs that literally let him kill them by underestimating leap.
    Edited by SodanTok on August 31, 2017 7:51PM
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Seen some of the comments on that build.

    Seventh legion and malubeth. The third set I don't currently know, maybe something like leeching or impregnable. Seventh legion gives high damage and healing. (no cooldown of heal) Using a hotpot, seventh (and maybe leeching) in conjunction with igneous and vigor means high heals.

    And the group he is against isn't organised enough to burst or cc together, so of course he will win.
    Edited by ak_pvp on August 31, 2017 7:59PM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    Funny how no stamina while blocking hurts people who dont block more.
    PS4 NA DC
  • Letho2469
    Letho2469
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    I definetely agree that those pugs are totally uncoordinated. I am speaking of blocking cost, though, which is not affected bei dmg done but solely by hits per second. Even with all sturdy+3 cost reduction + max cp he should lose 1.5k stamina per second when blocking a whole raid. His stamina bar doesn't even move much, though, so ppl are either not attacking at all or he has found a way to sustain stamina easily. Earthen heart should give about 1k per activation and he is not spaming his shield. AFAIK yachtboy stated he was wearing bloodspawn and no 7th legion nor rage.

    In a more general perspective: there is still many magplars and dks running around that can be barely scratched. Heavy armor is totally broken imo.
    Edited by Letho2469 on August 31, 2017 9:05PM
    Trial Progression:
    vAA: Hardmode
    vHRC: Hardmode
    vSO: Hardmode
    vMoL: Hardmode + dro-m'Athra-Destroyer
    vHoF: Hardmode + Tick Tock Tormentor
    vAS: Hardmode + Immortal Redeemer
    vCR: Hardmode + Gryphon Heart
    vSS: Hardmode
  • BohnT
    BohnT
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    Not hard to manage Permblock on any class.
    Guess you haven't seen the meta on PC-Eu.
    Heavy Armor Magdks with 7 sturdy
    blood spawn/ skoria
    Desert rose jewellery+ 1h+s
    + other random set

    Put enough points into block cost reduction and you can perma block on an magdk with perfect sustain due to igneous shield while having enough damage to kill any stam char except for very good stammbs which won't win in a fight.

    The only spec you'll have a hard time fighting is magplar and that only because you won't kill them but neither will they.


    For the build above it'll only work against the most stupid stam players and even worse mag players.
    It will have no success against more than 2 mag sorcs who are not completely reta*ded or any organized group, resource poisons and major defile wreck this build in no time


    The build is not bad with 71 points into befoul and malubeth you get 45% more healing couple this with major mending, 18% from dk passives, vigor, rally and 7th legion bug and you have insanely strong heals on a permablock build that can use
    a monster set + 2 other 5pc sets even on the 2h bar (all hail 7th legion exploit)
  • Letho2469
    Letho2469
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    BohnT wrote: »
    (...)
    The build is not bad with 71 points into befoul and malubeth you get 45% more healing couple this with major mending, 18% from dk passives, vigor, rally and 7th legion bug and you have insanely strong heals on a permablock build that can use
    a monster set + 2 other 5pc sets even on the 2h bar (all hail 7th legion exploit)
    I didn't even know there is a seventh legion bug. Pls don't tell us how to exploit it, but will I trigger it by just using the set or does it require some special setup? I play EU-PC btw., just posting here in the hope of getting a higher chance of catching a devs attention... That meta should be pretty weak against heavy dot builds, unless using this magma scale set (that's the name? I mean this 2500 impen set). If you use that your damage probably suffers :/ Never played magicka in pvp.
    BohnT wrote: »
    (...)
    The only spec you'll have a hard time fighting is magplar and that only because you won't kill them but neither will they.
    Thing is as part of an organized group they can easily make their allies tank your dps if you dont bring a proper counter. As it happens none of my mates brings a good healing reduction build, thats our current problem.
    BohnT wrote: »
    (...) It will have no success against more than 2 mag sorcs who are not completely reta*ded or any organized group, resource poisons and major defile wreck this build in no time
    Yep, poison snipe ftw. I don't use poisons myself, as I cannot validate their effect on the enemy. But thats a personal problem, I think^^
    Edited by Letho2469 on August 31, 2017 11:08PM
    Trial Progression:
    vAA: Hardmode
    vHRC: Hardmode
    vSO: Hardmode
    vMoL: Hardmode + dro-m'Athra-Destroyer
    vHoF: Hardmode + Tick Tock Tormentor
    vAS: Hardmode + Immortal Redeemer
    vCR: Hardmode + Gryphon Heart
    vSS: Hardmode
  • BohnT
    BohnT
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    Letho2469 wrote: »
    BohnT wrote: »
    (...)
    The build is not bad with 71 points into befoul and malubeth you get 45% more healing couple this with major mending, 18% from dk passives, vigor, rally and 7th legion bug and you have insanely strong heals on a permablock build that can use
    a monster set + 2 other 5pc sets even on the 2h bar (all hail 7th legion exploit)
    I didn't even know there is a seventh legion bug. Pls don't tell us how to exploit it, but will I trigger it by just using the set or does it require some special setup? I play EU-PC btw., just posting here in the hope of getting a higher chance of catching a devs attention...
    BohnT wrote: »
    (...)
    The only spec you'll have a hard time fighting is magplar and that only because you won't kill them but neither will they.
    Thing is as part of an organized group they can easily make their allies tank your dps if you dont bring a proper counter. As it happens none of my mates brings a good healing reduction build, thats our current problem.
    BohnT wrote: »
    (...) It will have no success against more than 2 mag sorcs who are not completely reta*ded or any organized group, resource poisons and major defile wreck this build in no time
    Yep, poison snipe ftw. I don't use poisons myself, as I cannot validate their effect on the enemy. But thats a personal problem, I think^^

    I've reported the bug 5 times now both on pts and on live and I don't see any changes coming.
    @ZOS_GinaBruno can we have an insight if you are aware of the bug / exploit?
    The poison effect is best seen when they are used against you I've never used them aswell as they are just an I win button in outnumbered fights and a big FU in duels.
    If your group has 1 nb you can kill him in less than 10 seconds maybe 15 if he's really good. Just fear him and kill him easiest tactic against permablock.

  • Vizier
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    Letho2469 wrote: »
    Hey, I am posting this although I can imagine that many players already know of it's existence, yet only few know how to do it. Furthermore this post is directed to the developer, as a hint to a possible problem and not intended to be a cry/rage thread. The recent changes to blocking (reducing it to 0.25s)clearly indicate, that Zenimax does not want people to be unkillable via perma blocking or tanking entire zergs, which is the only reason why I created this post.

    Please have a look at those two videos:

    things get interesting @:0:34
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3n4F1O6Jy0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45YLm720oKo

    To the guys who created them: thanks for not sharing those builds, they would CLEARLY ruin the game if becoming meta.

    As both videos prove, it is still easily possible to outtank whole zergs and dish out heavy damage afterwards. Those kind of builds simply destroy pvp, as they are ridiculously overpowered by doing something that the developer, as stated above, probably does not want people to do.

    Also heavy armor magicka templars are still close to being unkillable in pvp, despite the recent nerfs.

    Please have a look at it and adjust mechanics accordingly.

    They are already out there though and they are pretty much ruining the game with an obvious imbalance. As imbalanced as the old 1 shot from Stealth NB builds everyone whined about. At least those were glass cannons that died if they ever got attacked. But this stuff seen in the video has been going on way too long in PvP. Players have no confidence in ZoS to reasonably balance this game and why should they?
  • Letho2469
    Letho2469
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    BohnT wrote: »
    (...)
    If your group has 1 nb you can kill him in less than 10 seconds maybe 15 if he's really good. Just fear him and kill him easiest tactic against permablock.
    Well, he can still break and continue. I think you have no chance without defile, at least not if you dont outnumber these builds.
    Just gave up playing a stam warden with bloodspawn, 7th legion and bone pirate... it just sucked, because burst and dps are lol (mainly becuz underground assault is so difficult to land on good players and has a high recharge time).


    Vizier wrote: »
    (...) But this stuff seen in the video has been going on way too long in PvP. Players have no confidence in ZoS to reasonably balance this game and why should they?
    ZOS has proven to be overstrained with balancing this game often enough. Tbh. I've never seen a pvp game that was as unbalanced as ESO. It's just a "family and fun" game.

    Edited by Letho2469 on August 31, 2017 11:43PM
    Trial Progression:
    vAA: Hardmode
    vHRC: Hardmode
    vSO: Hardmode
    vMoL: Hardmode + dro-m'Athra-Destroyer
    vHoF: Hardmode + Tick Tock Tormentor
    vAS: Hardmode + Immortal Redeemer
    vCR: Hardmode + Gryphon Heart
    vSS: Hardmode
  • KingYogi415
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    Look at this magplar video by the same player.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gSCVrUFrp0

    It looks like he has around 50k magic. I have never seen stats even close to this for a magplar.

    Im the last person to call exploits because it is on console. But how is he the only person in the game that can pull off those kind of stats?
  • Jake1576
    Jake1576
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    Look at this magplar video by the same player.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gSCVrUFrp0

    It looks like he has around 50k magic. I have never seen stats even close to this for a magplar.

    Im the last person to call exploits because it is on console. But how is he the only person in the game that can pull off those kind of stats?

    emperor bonus maybe but on second thought nevermind I seen who it was in the video and wouldn't doubt if there might be an exploit happening said player was banned before is what I heard for people saying they was exploiting but was unbanned according to their youtube
    Edited by Jake1576 on September 1, 2017 12:26AM
  • KingYogi415
    KingYogi415
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    You watch him eat a tri food after it is traded to him then his front bar magic go from 47k to 48k.
    Edited by KingYogi415 on September 1, 2017 11:55AM
  • Olen_Mikko
    Olen_Mikko
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    Didn't see a lot of counterplay. Fear, DoTs, rightly timed CCs would have drained his health.

    Most of the damage was done by that other player, so i assume that build isn't capable of doing lot of damage by itself.
    NB enthusiastic:
    1. Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
    2. Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
    3. Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
    4. Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE

    Go dominion or go home

    Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Letho2469 wrote: »
    I definetely agree that those pugs are totally uncoordinated. I am speaking of blocking cost, though, which is not affected bei dmg done but solely by hits per second. Even with all sturdy+3 cost reduction + max cp he should lose 1.5k stamina per second when blocking a whole raid. His stamina bar doesn't even move much, though, so ppl are either not attacking at all or he has found a way to sustain stamina easily. Earthen heart should give about 1k per activation and he is not spaming his shield. AFAIK yachtboy stated he was wearing bloodspawn and no 7th legion nor rage.

    In a more general perspective: there is still many magplars and dks running around that can be barely scratched. Heavy armor is totally broken imo.

    Heavy armor got a massive nerf and is in now way broken. There is a big cost increase that comes from using it and you can still be killed by any player that knows what they're doing. People need to stop calling for nerfs on it. It's not heavy armor that leads to what you're seeing here because wearing heavy armor alone doesn't make you anywhere near invincible.
  • tunepunk
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    Looks more like High ultimate regen and spell wall.

    1hs - Spell wall = No block cost for 6 seconds, and returns projectiles.
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    BohnT wrote: »
    Not hard to manage Permblock on any class.
    Guess you haven't seen the meta on PC-Eu.
    Heavy Armor Magdks with 7 sturdy
    blood spawn/ skoria
    Desert rose jewellery+ 1h+s
    + other random set

    Put enough points into block cost reduction and you can perma block on an magdk with perfect sustain due to igneous shield while having enough damage to kill any stam char except for very good stammbs which won't win in a fight.

    The only spec you'll have a hard time fighting is magplar and that only because you won't kill them but neither will they.


    For the build above it'll only work against the most stupid stam players and even worse mag players.
    It will have no success against more than 2 mag sorcs who are not completely reta*ded or any organized group, resource poisons and major defile wreck this build in no time


    The build is not bad with 71 points into befoul and malubeth you get 45% more healing couple this with major mending, 18% from dk passives, vigor, rally and 7th legion bug and you have insanely strong heals on a permablock build that can use
    a monster set + 2 other 5pc sets even on the 2h bar (all hail 7th legion exploit)

    There´s a 7th Legion exploit?? What?

    The healing received is due to a bug/exploit/abuse of Befoul in the Shadow tree not working as it should. Combo that with dk passive, malubeth and HP-regen pots and you´ll get huge amount of healing. Not very difficult to figure out.
    The only thing I don´t get from the 2nd video is how he gains stamina while blocking (talking about when he´s not using ultimates or igneous). Constitution passive alone can´t give him that stamina alone.

    @BohnT Any thoughts about that?
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Letho2469 wrote: »
    I definetely agree that those pugs are totally uncoordinated. I am speaking of blocking cost, though, which is not affected bei dmg done but solely by hits per second. Even with all sturdy+3 cost reduction + max cp he should lose 1.5k stamina per second when blocking a whole raid. His stamina bar doesn't even move much, though, so ppl are either not attacking at all or he has found a way to sustain stamina easily. Earthen heart should give about 1k per activation and he is not spaming his shield. AFAIK yachtboy stated he was wearing bloodspawn and no 7th legion nor rage.

    In a more general perspective: there is still many magplars and dks running around that can be barely scratched. Heavy armor is totally broken imo.

    Never take the comments from the creators of these builds by their word. They will mislead you and go very far to protect their builds. You could name every set in the game and they would still deny using them. Best way to figure out their builds is to watch their videos and see if they have a buff-tracker on or not.
    And to all you people who says you´re happy they don´t tell their builds: You would jump on this "block-train" 24/7 if you where given the build. I would rather see these builds go out to the public, sacrifice a few weeks of "broken" pvp so that ZOS get a chance to fix what´s obviously broken.
  • BohnT
    BohnT
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    BohnT wrote: »
    Not hard to manage Permblock on any class.
    Guess you haven't seen the meta on PC-Eu.
    Heavy Armor Magdks with 7 sturdy
    blood spawn/ skoria
    Desert rose jewellery+ 1h+s
    + other random set

    Put enough points into block cost reduction and you can perma block on an magdk with perfect sustain due to igneous shield while having enough damage to kill any stam char except for very good stammbs which won't win in a fight.

    The only spec you'll have a hard time fighting is magplar and that only because you won't kill them but neither will they.


    For the build above it'll only work against the most stupid stam players and even worse mag players.
    It will have no success against more than 2 mag sorcs who are not completely reta*ded or any organized group, resource poisons and major defile wreck this build in no time


    The build is not bad with 71 points into befoul and malubeth you get 45% more healing couple this with major mending, 18% from dk passives, vigor, rally and 7th legion bug and you have insanely strong heals on a permablock build that can use
    a monster set + 2 other 5pc sets even on the 2h bar (all hail 7th legion exploit)

    There´s a 7th Legion exploit?? What?

    The healing received is due to a bug/exploit/abuse of Befoul in the Shadow tree not working as it should. Combo that with dk passive, malubeth and HP-regen pots and you´ll get huge amount of healing. Not very difficult to figure out.
    The only thing I don´t get from the 2nd video is how he gains stamina while blocking (talking about when he´s not using ultimates or igneous). Constitution passive alone can´t give him that stamina alone.

    @BohnT Any thoughts about that?
    there are a few sets which could provide him Stamina while blocking: Bloodthorn, Black Rose and Barkskin.
    When you watch the Video carefullly he gets only ~1k stam back. and recovers more with heavy attacks when he has shield ultimate, and a potion from time to time. Don't think there's anything Special about the stam sustain it's easy doable and Keep in mind that you often don't see igneous shield as it instantly vanishes because of incoming damage
  • Qbiken
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    Another thing I notice in the first video is how he gets 15 ultimate every once in a while. He´s not using Tava´s so I´ve no idea how you can get 15 ultimate with a split second. Anyone got an explanation to this? @BohnT Hope it´s ok if I "bother" you again with my questions ^^
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Another thing I notice in the first video is how he gets 15 ultimate every once in a while. He´s not using Tava´s so I´ve no idea how you can get 15 ultimate with a split second. Anyone got an explanation to this? @BohnT Hope it´s ok if I "bother" you again with my questions ^^

    Blood Spawn
    Werewolf Hide
    PS4 NA DC
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Another thing I notice in the first video is how he gets 15 ultimate every once in a while. He´s not using Tava´s so I´ve no idea how you can get 15 ultimate with a split second. Anyone got an explanation to this? @BohnT Hope it´s ok if I "bother" you again with my questions ^^

    Bloodspawn?
    PC EU

    All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!

    Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA
  • Qbiken
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    Masel92 wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Another thing I notice in the first video is how he gets 15 ultimate every once in a while. He´s not using Tava´s so I´ve no idea how you can get 15 ultimate with a split second. Anyone got an explanation to this? @BohnT Hope it´s ok if I "bother" you again with my questions ^^

    Bloodspawn?

    Afternoon braindead here........never work 15 hour shift and write stuff on forums.....
  • BohnT
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Another thing I notice in the first video is how he gets 15 ultimate every once in a while. He´s not using Tava´s so I´ve no idea how you can get 15 ultimate with a split second. Anyone got an explanation to this? @BohnT Hope it´s ok if I "bother" you again with my questions ^^
    I think your question got answered. But i have no idea what he's playing on this magplar with stats like this.
    The only thing you see is bloodspawn but other than that the visible stats are waaaaaay better than anything i've seen on a magplar before
  • Asmael
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    Sturdy, CP campaign with investment in Shadow ward, stack up block cost reduction glyphs, use sets to compensate for missing weapon damage, use either Malubeth or Bloodspawn. the 5p sets matter a bit, but they are flexible.

    Stam DKs happen to be good with Battle roar / helping hands since they return stamina while blocking - same for stam wardens to an extent, but any class can permablock with ease.

    Difference would be that a magicka DK can permablock AND kill people at the same time a lot easier since Morrowind.

    It takes literally 5mn to learn how to make this kind of build. Do your theorycrafting people.
    PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
    Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.
  • tunepunk
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Another thing I notice in the first video is how he gets 15 ultimate every once in a while. He´s not using Tava´s so I´ve no idea how you can get 15 ultimate with a split second. Anyone got an explanation to this? @BohnT Hope it´s ok if I "bother" you again with my questions ^^

    I have can get to 48k magicka on my magplar too. Infused on big pieces, and The Mage mundus and food will get you to that.

    For the fast ultimate regen, maybe he's using vamp skill.
    Invigorating drain - 5 ulti per second.

    He's probably also using Akaviri Dragonguard 15% reduced Ultimate cost.
    Maybe Blessing of the Potentates as well... 10% reduced Ultimate cost.
    Decisive Weapons.
    Templar Passive 4% reduced ulti cost.
    Prism Passive - Activating a Dawn's Wrath ability grants 3 additional Ultimate. This can only occur once every 6 seconds.
    Light Weaver Helps as well.
    Spear wall helps.

    I played around with some build like that before, and I could keep up the Spell Wall ulti almost constantly.




  • brtomkin
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    Look at this magplar video by the same player.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gSCVrUFrp0

    It looks like he has around 50k magic. I have never seen stats even close to this for a magplar.

    Im the last person to call exploits because it is on console. But how is he the only person in the game that can pull off those kind of stats?

    I threw this together in about 5 mins:

    http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=24932

    PS5 NA: Pickmans__Model, CP 2000+
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    Werewolf hide/tavas? With that and bloodspawn your ulti gen is off the charts, that alone gives decent sustain. Bunch of sturdy and some number of block cost glyphs. You can still fit a damage set in there too, proc an infused damage glyph and 7th legion, wrath and you're sitting at what, 3.7k weapon damage? That's enough to burst potatoes.
    Edited by Lexxypwns on September 1, 2017 3:35PM
  • Letho2469
    Letho2469
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    Asmael wrote: »
    Sturdy, CP campaign with investment in Shadow ward, stack up block cost reduction glyphs, use sets to compensate for missing weapon damage, use either Malubeth or Bloodspawn. the 5p sets matter a bit, but they are flexible.

    Stam DKs happen to be good with Battle roar / helping hands since they return stamina while blocking - same for stam wardens to an extent, but any class can permablock with ease.

    Difference would be that a magicka DK can permablock AND kill people at the same time a lot easier since Morrowind.

    It takes literally 5mn to learn how to make this kind of build. Do your theorycrafting people.

    I have done it and minimum blocking cost, calculated the way you suggested, would be ~400 (dont have the actual numbers). 400 every .25 seconds is 1600 per second. In no way can you sustain block that way, even not as a dk.
    Trial Progression:
    vAA: Hardmode
    vHRC: Hardmode
    vSO: Hardmode
    vMoL: Hardmode + dro-m'Athra-Destroyer
    vHoF: Hardmode + Tick Tock Tormentor
    vAS: Hardmode + Immortal Redeemer
    vCR: Hardmode + Gryphon Heart
    vSS: Hardmode
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