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Horns of the Reach - Non-Pet-Sorc ?

  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
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    dpencil1 wrote: »
    When I did my 35.5k parse, I had 76% Shock damage. It is not too hard to get, and if you're using Julianos with it anyway, drawing a comparison between them is somewhat pointless.

    @Deyoz
    My rotation was not static. It was based on priorities:
    1. Potion, Ulti, and Ele Drain on cooldown
    2. Liquid Lightning and Blockade of Storms every 8 seconds
    3. Haunting Curse reapplied as soon after second explosion as possible (front-barred for easier access)
    4. Heavy attack once or twice in each rotation after dots are up depending on how much magicka is left (always leading into Force Pulse or Haunting Curse)
    5. Force Pulse when there's nothing else to do
    6. Crystal Frags any time it procs
    7. Use Endless Fury during execute, keeping Liquid Lightning and Blockade up

    Bar setup:
    1. Crystal Frags, Force Pulse, Haunting Curse, Inner Light, Bound Aegis, Shooting Star
    2. Liquid Lightning, Blockade of Storms, Endless Fury, Ele Drain (Empowered Ward in group), Bound Aegis, Thunderous Rage

    Edit: I'm sure Nirn vMA is fine. The nice thing about Infused is its benefit to LA and HA stays when you barswap, and the added Spell Damage almost equalls Julianos, so there's very little SD loss only having Julianos' 5th piece bonus on the front bar.

    Sooo .. you use Netch and Julianos on this build? Because the only difference would be that I would have nirn backbar and you infused. Does the 3-4k DPS really matter?

    My dream would be to have 34-35k DPS :sweat_smile:
    Edited by Deyoz on September 4, 2017 4:50AM
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
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  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    Vaoh wrote: »
    Deyoz wrote: »
    Vaoh wrote: »
    Please link a vid of a DPS parse and Ill try to help as much as possible!

    I'll do that, thanks a lot dude :open_mouth:
    Vaoh wrote: »
    5x Julianos + 5x Netch would be good. Combine with either 1x Iceheart (Julianos staves) or 1x vMA Staff + 1x Master/non-set staff.

    Can you tell me which traits your vMA and Master staff has? Because I use sharpend :sweat_smile:

    Infused would be the best trait for all of the staves.

    Have changed on my build :) Thanks! I try to upload today a video of my rotation, would be really nice if someone can look over it :)
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
    Sorcerer Magicka/Stamina | Off-/Maintank | Templar Magicka | Dragonknight Stamina
    vHOF [✘] | vMOL HM [✘] | vMOL [✔] | vSO HM [✔] | vHRC HM [✔] | vAA HM [✔] | vDSA [✔]
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  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
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    Deyoz wrote: »
    Croblasta wrote: »
    What skills and rotation are you using?

    Skills:

    bl5bhs7p.png


    Rotation:
    (Elemental Rage) -> LA -> Liquid Lightning -> LA -> Blockade -> LA -> Curse -> LA -> WS -> Destructive Clench -> LA -> Force Pulse -> HA -> Force Pulse -> WS (repeat)

    Sorry for the question but what does WS mean ?
  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
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    Weapon swap
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
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    Thanks lol
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
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    Edit:

    My best score at the moment is 31,4k DPS with 5x IA, 5x Juli, 1x Ilambris, frontbar Juli infused and backbar vMA nirn (both lightning. It is like your build @dpencil1 from your "(Pet Sorc DPS Set Comparison with Parse Data)" thread.

    What am I doing wrong that I can not get to your 35-36k? Have it tested over 20-25 times and always the same value :/
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
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  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdbeivtnTzk&t=22s

    @dpencil1 @Vaoh maybe u can check my rotation (If you dont mind) .. :smile:
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Deyoz wrote: »
    Croblasta wrote: »
    What skills and rotation are you using?

    Skills:

    bl5bhs7p.png


    Rotation:
    (Elemental Rage) -> LA -> Liquid Lightning -> LA -> Blockade -> LA -> Curse -> LA -> WS -> Destructive Clench -> LA -> Force Pulse -> HA -> Force Pulse -> WS (repeat)

    If using non-pet you most definitely want to have Frags or Mines in your rotation. Also an Inferno front bar may be better on a non pet build. in which case you'd want:
    Inferno bar: Frags, FP, Clench, Aegis, Inner Light
    vMA bar: WoE, LL, Curse, Fury, Aegis

    You rota would look like this:
    Curse > LL > Blockade > WS > Reach > FP/Frags x4 > WS
    LL > Blockade > WS > Reach > FP/Frags x3 > HA

    Since the rota isn't as magicka heavy as the pet rota, you can allow yourself to only use 1 HA.
    Edited by Izaki on September 8, 2017 2:05PM
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
    #MoreDPSthanYou
    #Stamblade
  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
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    @Deyoz
    Your rotation looks good for the most part. Your timing between skills is sometimes a little slow. You were probably using more heavy attacks than you really needed to. You finished the fight with almost a full magicka bar. You should be pushing to nearly empty by the end. Only worry about heavy attacking when you are around 50% magicka. You'll also get a little more dps using Force Pulse instead of Crushing Shock.

    Try this: Just sit on the dummy hitting it with Force Pulse for a while. Hit the button as fast as you can at first. Then try to anticipate when the next time the skill would actually fire will be and try hitting the button right then, so the speed of the hits doesn't change, but you adjust how fast you are pressing the button. Then try to add light attacks just before each hit while having minimal loss of time between Force Pulses. Get a sense of the timing, and then do your rotation at that pace.

    P.S. You are following my build specs exaxtly, right? Same CP, gold gear, etc.
    Edited by dpencil1 on September 8, 2017 2:16PM
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
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    Deyoz wrote: »
    Croblasta wrote: »
    What skills and rotation are you using?

    Skills:

    bl5bhs7p.png


    Rotation:
    (Elemental Rage) -> LA -> Liquid Lightning -> LA -> Blockade -> LA -> Curse -> LA -> WS -> Destructive Clench -> LA -> Force Pulse -> HA -> Force Pulse -> WS (repeat)

    If using non-pet you most definitely want to have Frags or Mines in your rotation. Also an Inferno front bar may be better on a non pet build. in which case you'd want:
    Inferno bar: Frags, FP, Clench, Aegis, Inner Light
    vMA bar: WoE, LL, Curse, Fury, Aegis

    You rota would look like this:
    Curse > LL > Blockade > WS > Reach > FP/Frags x4 > WS
    LL > Blockade > WS > Reach > FP/Frags x3 > HA

    Since the rota isn't as magicka heavy as the pet rota, you can allow yourself to only use 1 HA.

    In a Raid Situation I use a Inferno backbar (vMA) to have netter sustain.

    And Thanks, I'll try it :)
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
    Sorcerer Magicka/Stamina | Off-/Maintank | Templar Magicka | Dragonknight Stamina
    vHOF [✘] | vMOL HM [✘] | vMOL [✔] | vSO HM [✔] | vHRC HM [✔] | vAA HM [✔] | vDSA [✔]
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  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    dpencil1 wrote: »
    @Deyoz
    Your rotation looks good for the most part. Your timing between skills is sometimes a little slow. You were probably using more heavy attacks than you really needed to. You finished the fight with almost a full magicka bar. You should be pushing to nearly empty by the end. Only worry about heavy attacking when you are around 50% magicka. You'll also get a little more dps using Force Pulse instead of Crushing Shock.

    Try this: Just sit on the dummy hitting it with Force Pulse for a while. Hit the button as fast as you can at first. Then try to anticipate when the next time the skill would actually fire will be and try hitting the button right then, so the speed of the hits doesn't change, but you adjust how fast you are pressing the button. Then try to add light attacks just before each hit while having minimal loss of time between Force Pulses. Get a sense of the timing, and then do your rotation at that pace.

    P.S. You are following my build specs exaxtly, right? Same CP, gold gear, etc.

    Just staffs and jewelry is gold
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
    Sorcerer Magicka/Stamina | Off-/Maintank | Templar Magicka | Dragonknight Stamina
    vHOF [✘] | vMOL HM [✘] | vMOL [✔] | vSO HM [✔] | vHRC HM [✔] | vAA HM [✔] | vDSA [✔]
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  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
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    @Deyoz
    With purple divines gear and the Lover stone, you will be getting a bit less spell penetration than if they were gold, and also less max magicka, I believe. Upgrading your gear won't make as big a difference as tightening up your rotation, but it should still help some.
    Edited by dpencil1 on September 8, 2017 3:06PM
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    @dpencil1
    I'll try this. But I've one question: I know, that im using to much HA so is it better to use it every second rotation? I'm not really sure when I've to use my HA ..
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
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  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    @dpencil1
    and a big thanks to your support!
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
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  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Ill be that guy. If you want to play a ranged magic character without a pet, play magic NB. mNB is miles ahead of a Non-pet sorc. Even a pet sorc cant compete with a mNB in pure single target, but the pet pushes them ahead in AOE. Take the pet away, and your just going to be frustrated with your numbers.
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    Ill be that guy. If you want to play a ranged magic character without a pet, play magic NB. mNB is miles ahead of a Non-pet sorc. Even a pet sorc cant compete with a mNB in pure single target, but the pet pushes them ahead in AOE. Take the pet away, and your just going to be frustrated with your numbers.

    sure, but 36-37k DPS is for me enough. I'll only reach this number to be happy :smiley:
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
    Sorcerer Magicka/Stamina | Off-/Maintank | Templar Magicka | Dragonknight Stamina
    vHOF [✘] | vMOL HM [✘] | vMOL [✔] | vSO HM [✔] | vHRC HM [✔] | vAA HM [✔] | vDSA [✔]
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  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
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    @Deyoz
    Start with every other rotation until you are at 50% magicka. Then you could do a few rotations with a HA every time. You should probably be at able 50% when you get to execute range, then just unload with Endless Fury while keeping LL and Blockade up, no more HAs.
    Edited by dpencil1 on September 8, 2017 4:30PM
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    @dpencil1
    Alright, I'll test it :)
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
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    vHOF [✘] | vMOL HM [✘] | vMOL [✔] | vSO HM [✔] | vHRC HM [✔] | vAA HM [✔] | vDSA [✔]
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  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    @Deyoz So this is what I've found.

    Your main issue so far is with the rotation - in particular you seem to not be totally sure of the timing of your DoTs. Magicka Sorc is very easy rotation-wise. Regardless of whether or not it is a pet build, non-pet build, etc, your rotation will follow a simple pattern wth almost no variation.

    On a non-pet Magicka Sorc, there are 8 skill casts to use before repeating everything.
    1. Liquid Lightning (always #1)
    2. Blockade of Elements (always #2)
    3. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase) OR Haunting Curse (every other rotation)
    4. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    5. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    6. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    7. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    8. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    ----> REPEAT

    Notes:
    - If applying your own Elemental Drain, use it in place of a Force Pulse/Frag/Mages' Wrath. You can also apply this same idea of reapplying a long duration ability as soon as it needs to be refreshed to Haunting Curse, but it is tougher to do.
    - A much easier way to think about your rotation is that you cast your two main DoTs (Liquid Lightning, Blockade of Elements) and then you have 6 skill casts left before having to recast them. Those 6 casts can be anything, but after 6 skill casts you have to reapply your main two AoE DoTs
    - A Lightning Staff Heavy Attack is equal to almost exactly 2x skill casts (0.1sec less time or so). Lightning Staff Heavy Attack in place of 2x Force Pulse/Frag/Mages' Wrath casts when needed
    - If using Destructive Clench, cast it on the 3rd skill cast and use Haunting Curse on the 4th
    - For Pet builds...... cast your Volatile Familiar Pulse on the 3rd skill cast and Daedric Prey on the 4th skill cast. If also using Destructive Touch, cast it on the 5th or 7th skill cast.

    Another thing is that I am not a fan of "artificial" DPS on target skeletons. A Warden for example will use a Bear Ult in hopes of artificially boosting their target skeleton DPS even though that Bear is never used in actual trials. Your build is double-slotting Inner Light when you should have Mages' Wrath on. Also ofc use The Apprentice stone, CPs specced for group play, etc. Against a Target Dummy you might be pulling higher DPS without these things but in a trial or dungeon you need this all so you might as well use the same setup on a target skeleton to see how much DPS you'd really pull. Ele Drain always goes in place of your damage shield when doing a solo parse.

    Lastly you really don't need to block animation cancel all of your skill casts. Mainly do not block animation cancel your Force Pulse/Crystal Frag/Mages' Wrath/Haunting Curse/Elemental Rage casts. It's obviously recommended to animation cancel them with bar swaps though when repeating your rotation. This overall will smoothen out your rotation and make things easier to follow. It will also make actual content easier as you do not want to block animation cancel all of those skills in a long trial boss fight with lag and (since you're on console like me) certain 5-10FPS boss fights.

    Hope that helped! Lmk if I need to elaborate on anything. I think I covered it all for now. For non-pet Sorc DPS you have to keep in mind that your DPS (not yours in particular) is very meh this patch. Pet builds always beat non-pet Sorc DPS by a lot. Also Mag NB beats Pet Sorc, so in general non-pet Sorc is not that great. For the most part, the main role of Magicka Sorc in trials now is to apply Blockade of Lightning for off-balance uptime.
    Edited by Vaoh on September 8, 2017 7:50PM
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
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    @Vaoh wow, thats amazing. Its sounds so easy what you say, I hope I'll reach my dream dps with your help :)

    In terms of gear: how much dps will I get If I upgrade my gear to legendary?
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
    Sorcerer Magicka/Stamina | Off-/Maintank | Templar Magicka | Dragonknight Stamina
    vHOF [✘] | vMOL HM [✘] | vMOL [✔] | vSO HM [✔] | vHRC HM [✔] | vAA HM [✔] | vDSA [✔]
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  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    @Deyoz Well it is important to upgrade weapons to Gold-quality. With armor it's not as important, but armor bonuses were buffed in HotR so the loss from not being legendary is also a bit greater. Not too sure how much DPS you'd really gain by upgrading. Probably a few thousand DPS if I had to guess.

    Make sure you have gold weapons and a gold set of Julianos at least since you'll basically always use this set.
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Also in Vet Trials it is important for Magicka builds to have mostly Gold gear in particular because the armor you gain from doing so means you take less damage.
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    @Deyoz So this is what I've found.

    Your main issue so far is with the rotation - in particular you seem to not be totally sure of the timing of your DoTs. Magicka Sorc is very easy rotation-wise. Regardless of whether or not it is a pet build, non-pet build, etc, your rotation will follow a simple pattern wth almost no variation.

    On a non-pet Magicka Sorc, there are 8 skill casts to use before repeating everything.
    1. Liquid Lightning (always #1)
    2. Blockade of Elements (always #2)
    3. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase) OR Haunting Curse (every other rotation)
    4. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    5. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    6. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    7. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    8. Force Pulse or Crystal Frags (if procced) or Mages' Wrath (if in execute phase)
    ----> REPEAT

    Notes:
    - If applying your own Elemental Drain, use it in place of a Force Pulse/Frag/Mages' Wrath. You can also apply this same idea of reapplying a long duration ability as soon as it needs to be refreshed to Haunting Curse, but it is tougher to do.
    - A much easier way to think about your rotation is that you cast your two main DoTs (Liquid Lightning, Blockade of Elements) and then you have 6 skill casts left before having to recast them. Those 6 casts can be anything, but after 6 skill casts you have to reapply your main two AoE DoTs
    - A Lightning Staff Heavy Attack is equal to almost exactly 2x skill casts (0.1sec less time or so). Lightning Staff Heavy Attack in place of 2x Force Pulse/Frag/Mages' Wrath casts when needed
    - If using Destructive Clench, cast it on the 3rd skill cast and use Haunting Curse on the 4th
    - For Pet builds...... cast your Volatile Familiar Pulse on the 3rd skill cast and Daedric Prey on the 4th skill cast. If also using Destructive Touch, cast it on the 5th or 7th skill cast.

    Another thing is that I am not a fan of "artificial" DPS on target skeletons. A Warden for example will use a Bear Ult in hopes of artificially boosting their target skeleton DPS even though that Bear is never used in actual trials. Your build is double-slotting Inner Light when you should have Mages' Wrath on. Also ofc use The Apprentice stone, CPs specced for group play, etc. Against a Target Dummy you might be pulling higher DPS without these things but in a trial or dungeon you need this all so you might as well use the same setup on a target skeleton to see how much DPS you'd really pull. Ele Drain always goes in place of your damage shield when doing a solo parse.

    Lastly you really don't need to block animation cancel all of your skill casts. Mainly do not block animation cancel your Force Pulse/Crystal Frag/Mages' Wrath/Haunting Curse/Elemental Rage casts. It's obviously recommended to animation cancel them with bar swaps though when repeating your rotation. This overall will smoothen out your rotation and make things easier to follow. It will also make actual content easier as you do not want to block animation cancel all of those skills in a long trial boss fight with lag and (since you're on console like me) certain 5-10FPS boss fights.

    Hope that helped! Lmk if I need to elaborate on anything. I think I covered it all for now. For non-pet Sorc DPS you have to keep in mind that your DPS (not yours in particular) is very meh this patch. Pet builds always beat non-pet Sorc DPS by a lot. Also Mag NB beats Pet Sorc, so in general non-pet Sorc is not that great. For the most part, the main role of Magicka Sorc in trials now is to apply Blockade of Lightning for off-balance uptime.

    @Vaoh
    I like it. It's very similar to how I describe a pet sorc rotation. I always use the counting music analogy. Everything is a 4 count. Your first Four Count: LL,Blockade, Pet, Prey. Your second Four Count: Basically everything else. FP, Frags, Mages Wrath, Shield, Ele Drain, whatever, just count to 4. Just make sure that you never miss a beat.

    LL is your biggest damage skill. This ensures it is cast on cooldown. The biggest mistake I see with new players is spending too much time on their front bar and letting their back bar DOTs expire.
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
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    After considering a long time, I have found out that the combination of:

    - 5x Netch
    - 2x Ilambris
    - 4x Moondance (infused staff on the frontbar and nirnhorned MSA staff)

    the best is currently, at least I have thereby set my own best values ​​of 35k-36k DPS.

    The rotation is fairly simple and easy to play and I find the sustainability of the resources is perfect.
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
    Sorcerer Magicka/Stamina | Off-/Maintank | Templar Magicka | Dragonknight Stamina
    vHOF [✘] | vMOL HM [✘] | vMOL [✔] | vSO HM [✔] | vHRC HM [✔] | vAA HM [✔] | vDSA [✔]
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  • Daila820
    Daila820
    @Deyoz Do you mind sharing your rotation? Really appreciate it! Thanks!
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    @Daila820 sure :)


    (LA = light attack | HA = heavy attack | WS = weapon swap)

    LA ► Liguid Lightning ► LA ► Elemental Blockade ► LA ► Scalding Rune (mages guild skill) ► WS ► LA ► Hunting Curse ► HA ► fast LA ► Destructive Clench ► LA ► WS ► "REPEAT"

    The light attack after the heavy can be canceled with some exercise.

    Caution: use the curse only every second rotation


    And that are my skills:

    RJRymgKE.PNG

    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
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  • Daila820
    Daila820
    @Deyoz Thank you! <3
  • Deyoz
    Deyoz
    ✭✭
    @Daila820 You're welcome :smile:
    Platform: PS4 | Championpoints: 750+ ►
    Sorcerer Magicka/Stamina | Off-/Maintank | Templar Magicka | Dragonknight Stamina
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