How about we stop spamming resto/shield ultis on 1v1s

Waffennacht

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

Or he's a dd thats come across and perfectly balance heavy magplar or warden in a 1v1.

Gl bursting heavy s&b user with 26k+ hp. With access to cheap ults like tree's, s&b ult, resto ult or templar ult.

At which point I'm thinking it's gonna be a draw. And that's ok

Koolio

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

What am I suppose to do with my Duoble resto Shalk Eyes of Mara build? Lmao

Lol, nothing. But don't get all worked up when I call out your cheese.

If I have to deal with incap every 10 secs then they have to deal with resto ultimate every 10 secs lol.

apostate9

If you don't want to face certain setups/ults/skills...don't duel. This thread is silly.

SanTii.92

Baconlad wrote: »

Try it. Start a duel with the intention that you wont go offensive, even on your most ofensive build, you should not die if all you do is concentrate on defense. Its the going offensive that makes us have mistakes in our defense...so leave those ultis alone

Exactly, this is way spaming this deffensive ults is just downright disrespectful. I can also sit on resto bar, spam heavies and never die, but then what's the point.

apostate9 wrote: »

If you don't want to face certain setups/ults/skills...don't duel. This thread is silly.

This thread is so we agree on that spaming these ultis is not a valid tactic, or if you will I'm going to shamelessly run ravage resource poisons and I don't want to hear you compain.

Waffennacht

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Try it. Start a duel with the intention that you wont go offensive, even on your most ofensive build, you should not die if all you do is concentrate on defense. Its the going offensive that makes us have mistakes in our defense...so leave those ultis alone

Exactly, this is way spaming this deffensive ults is just downright disrespectful. I can also sit on resto bar, spam heavies and never die, but then what's the point.

apostate9 wrote: »

If you don't want to face certain setups/ults/skills...don't duel. This thread is silly.

This thread is so we agree on that spaming these ultis is not a valid tactic, or if you will I'm going to shamelessly run ravage resource poisons and I don't want to hear you compain.

I especially agree to those terms. See, I use to not run things, or not use certain abilities, but then you run into about 5 #$&+ in a row that do and T-Bag you etc. So for them, I run it all.

Now, if you don't run that and if I'm aware you want me to not use these in a duel, I'll certainly change it up

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

Or he's a dd thats come across and perfectly balance heavy magplar or warden in a 1v1.

Gl bursting heavy s&b user with 26k+ hp. With access to cheap ults like tree's, s&b ult, resto ult or templar ult.

At which point I'm thinking it's gonna be a draw. And that's ok

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

Or he's a dd thats come across and perfectly balance heavy magplar or warden in a 1v1.

Gl bursting heavy s&b user with 26k+ hp. With access to cheap ults like tree's, s&b ult, resto ult or templar ult.

At which point I'm thinking it's gonna be a draw. And that's ok

He forgot magika builds can have good sustain or damage in heavy, not both.

Lexxypwns

WhiteMage wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

I think this comment captures the essence of ESO combat. Burst is king. Pressure means nearly nothing when you can everyone can cast a full heal within 2 seconds and have some defensive mechanic to facilitate that, like dodge rolls or shields or block. To get through that, you need burst.

It's such a mess. Practically everyone in ESO is a healer (though many are limited to self heals) so the only thing left is to chose between sky high damage (burst) or even higher tankiness. I don't think it would be too far off the mark to judge players' "skill" based on how well they can (self-)heal.

It's both a symptom and a cause of low TTK.

Pressure means nothing? Lol man, just no. Fight a good mageblade, stam sorc, or magplar and tell me again how pressure means nothing

br0steen

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

I build as offensive as possible, but you just can't one shot good players.

AHA! So you admit it then, its the players skill not the abilities themselves!

SanTii.92

br0steen wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

I build as offensive as possible, but you just can't one shot good players.

AHA! So you admit it then, its the players skill not the abilities themselves!

Of course it is, to an extent. That doesn't mean those ultis are ridiculous in certain situations.

OdinForge

Not just resto and 1 hand ults, but warden tree ult and remembrance as well. Either way the types of players that do *** like this tend to be *** and/or of very minimal threat, you can just teabag them and not worry about dying yourself.

The game is too far gone to lobby for meaningful 1v1s.

Lexxypwns

I'm also perfectly content to use defensive ultis when my opponent is just turtling waiting for an offensive ulti to burst. This is literally the ideal counter to that strategy. I don't really see how a sorc camping mines and shield stacking waiting for DBoS to be up so he has a hope of bursting(or a stam build turtling while fury and leap/db are charging) is any different from me playing aggressively and using defensive ultis to supplement my survivability.

WhiteMage

Lexxypwns wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

I think this comment captures the essence of ESO combat. Burst is king. Pressure means nearly nothing when you can everyone can cast a full heal within 2 seconds and have some defensive mechanic to facilitate that, like dodge rolls or shields or block. To get through that, you need burst.

It's such a mess. Practically everyone in ESO is a healer (though many are limited to self heals) so the only thing left is to chose between sky high damage (burst) or even higher tankiness. I don't think it would be too far off the mark to judge players' "skill" based on how well they can (self-)heal.

It's both a symptom and a cause of low TTK.

Pressure means nothing? Lol man, just no. Fight a good mageblade, stam sorc, or magplar and tell me again how pressure means nothing

I main a magplar and it is from this perspective that I say it doesn't mean much. I very much appreciate pressure of my rather high damage build, when it amounts to anything. When it does, it's a very powerful tool in the kit, especially in tandem with the single greatest skill in a templar, nay, the game: backlash. Even then, though, it almost always plays second fiddle to burst.

It just so happens that yesterday I met my first-ever opponent where pressure mattered more than burst. This was a competent player on a newly-rolled stamden (which he soon after trashed) and my usual tactic of slowly building up burst then laying it down didn't work. Like, at all. It wasn't until that I decided to just keep jabbing that I could kill him. This felt very odd, because I'm used to fighting opponents than can shield or block for days while I jab and get nowhere. They have a practically impenetrable defense that I must wait till they leave an opening for me to stick as much burst as I can manage in that small opening. For almost all competent opponents, this is the only tactic that works. For them, burst is more valuable than pressure, because it's what does the killing. We can, of course, discount the opponents that will crumple to any damage, be it burst or pressure, because the have no self heals or are just bad.

As for mNBs or sSorcs, those guys can be huge trouble but it's the burst combo that does the killing from the mNB. As for sSorcs, I haven't seen one without proc sets since it feels like ever, and none at all since HotR for some reason. That isn't much there to be said though because I don't run them so I don't know how they do their killing on non-light-armored-magplars. I'm susceptible to pressure. Many mSorcs and sDKs aren't.

So we can put pressure on a pedestal, but no matter how much I'd like it to mean, it's got nothing on burst. Burst is king. Burst decides (most) fights, and it does so in an instant; it's not often that you can call a fight quite a bit before it happens. If the TTK was higher, pressure would be more important and you would.

ezeepeezee

WhiteMage wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Your build can't burst damage for 22k+?

Your a DD that doesn't have enough burst... That's your prob right there

I think this comment captures the essence of ESO combat. Burst is king. Pressure means nearly nothing when you can everyone can cast a full heal within 2 seconds and have some defensive mechanic to facilitate that, like dodge rolls or shields or block. To get through that, you need burst.

It's such a mess. Practically everyone in ESO is a healer (though many are limited to self heals) so the only thing left is to chose between sky high damage (burst) or even higher tankiness. I don't think it would be too far off the mark to judge players' "skill" based on how well they can (self-)heal.

It's both a symptom and a cause of low TTK.

Pressure means nothing? Lol man, just no. Fight a good mageblade, stam sorc, or magplar and tell me again how pressure means nothing

I main a magplar and it is from this perspective that I say it doesn't mean much. I very much appreciate pressure of my rather high damage build, when it amounts to anything. When it does, it's a very powerful tool in the kit, especially in tandem with the single greatest skill in a templar, nay, the game: backlash. Even then, though, it almost always plays second fiddle to burst.

It just so happens that yesterday I met my first-ever opponent where pressure mattered more than burst. This was a competent player on a newly-rolled stamden (which he soon after trashed) and my usual tactic of slowly building up burst then laying it down didn't work. Like, at all. It wasn't until that I decided to just keep jabbing that I could kill him. This felt very odd, because I'm used to fighting opponents than can shield or block for days while I jab and get nowhere. They have a practically impenetrable defense that I must wait till they leave an opening for me to stick as much burst as I can manage in that small opening. For almost all competent opponents, this is the only tactic that works. For them, burst is more valuable than pressure, because it's what does the killing. We can, of course, discount the opponents that will crumple to any damage, be it burst or pressure, because the have no self heals or are just bad.

As for mNBs or sSorcs, those guys can be huge trouble but it's the burst combo that does the killing from the mNB. As for sSorcs, I haven't seen one without proc sets since it feels like ever, and none at all since HotR for some reason. That isn't much there to be said though because I don't run them so I don't know how they do their killing on non-light-armored-magplars. I'm susceptible to pressure. Many mSorcs and sDKs aren't.

So we can put pressure on a pedestal, but no matter how much I'd like it to mean, it's got nothing on burst. Burst is king. Burst decides (most) fights, and it does so in an instant; it's not often that you can call a fight quite a bit before it happens. If the TTK was higher, pressure would be more important and you would.

On point. There's a reason you see so many of the 'top' players running Crit Rush > Uppercut > DB. There are easy combos that you can pair with certain gear sets and CP setups that just annihilate most every target that isn't explicitly tanky. It's a joke, honestly.

DeHei

I would support duells without any ultimates. Then its fine

DeHei

Baconlad wrote: »

I have a high damage magplar light armor build, i use bloodspawn, i use resto ult...

You see as a light armor magplar, my shields are nowhere near as strong as a NB, warden or sorc, there fore i must rely on mitigating damage through resists, and healing up. The problem with that is it forces magplars into defensive stances, when the other classes can just pop two shields and go back offensive.

The resto ulti allows me to build for damage and have more time being offensive. But look at what i have to sacrifice in order to get that. I dont get to use a offensive ultimate unless you suck and dont pressure me properly, i dont get to use an offensive monster helm, i dont get the same damage numbers or burst as a magsorc, magwarden, magblade or any stamina toon.

Now i can understand if you used resto ult as a magsorc woth 50k magic, thats kinda low. But hes not using an offensive ulti if hes using resto ult.

You need to time your burst, one good thing about magplars is they they are noticably harder to burst down due to having to build more for passive mitigation, but that come at a price of us not being able burst as well as others.

Its not to say my magplar sucks. My setup allows me to take on the most competent players in the game, and its a very well set up toon. I believe you should not be able to single handedly beat another player 1v1. All classes have great defense and only a improperly played or built toon who makes mistakes can lose. But thats the fun of dueling, everyone always makes mistakes at some point.

Try it. Start a duel with the intention that you wont go offensive, even on your most ofensive build, you should not die if all you do is concentrate on defense. Its the going offensive that makes us have mistakes in our defense...so leave those ultis alone

I explained this in a other thread allready and earned only crticism for that from a lot of nightblades or sorcs... They want back a dummy (templar) for example to kill and no fair duell. As magicka Templar you need to play very defensive and there is nearly no option to make much pressure to the enemy. Only with ultis like the restro you can do pressure like sorcs and nightblades and we have something like a balance. You can compare templarultis with ultis from other classes and you see the problem... templar dont have just 1 ultimate, which is useful like ultis from these other classes and make him similar successful in reason of that... For this other classes this ultimate isnt a big buff like it is especially for templar!

Derra

ezeepeezee wrote: »

[
On point. There's a reason you see so many of the 'top' players running Crit Rush > Uppercut > DB. There are easy combos that you can pair with certain gear sets and CP setups that just annihilate most every target that isn't explicitly tanky. It's a joke, honestly.

I´ve not seen one "top player" running critrush uppercut dawnbreaker. Not. a. single. one.

It´s generally the trashsetup for mediocre players thinking of themselves way better than they truely are while killing noobs with that.
Only execeoption being this used from stealth. You´ll kill almost anyone bc they won´t see you

Derra

DeHei wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I have a high damage magplar light armor build, i use bloodspawn, i use resto ult...

You see as a light armor magplar, my shields are nowhere near as strong as a NB, warden or sorc, there fore i must rely on mitigating damage through resists, and healing up. The problem with that is it forces magplars into defensive stances, when the other classes can just pop two shields and go back offensive.

The resto ulti allows me to build for damage and have more time being offensive. But look at what i have to sacrifice in order to get that. I dont get to use a offensive ultimate unless you suck and dont pressure me properly, i dont get to use an offensive monster helm, i dont get the same damage numbers or burst as a magsorc, magwarden, magblade or any stamina toon.

Now i can understand if you used resto ult as a magsorc woth 50k magic, thats kinda low. But hes not using an offensive ulti if hes using resto ult.

You need to time your burst, one good thing about magplars is they they are noticably harder to burst down due to having to build more for passive mitigation, but that come at a price of us not being able burst as well as others.

Its not to say my magplar sucks. My setup allows me to take on the most competent players in the game, and its a very well set up toon. I believe you should not be able to single handedly beat another player 1v1. All classes have great defense and only a improperly played or built toon who makes mistakes can lose. But thats the fun of dueling, everyone always makes mistakes at some point.

Try it. Start a duel with the intention that you wont go offensive, even on your most ofensive build, you should not die if all you do is concentrate on defense. Its the going offensive that makes us have mistakes in our defense...so leave those ultis alone

I explained this in a other thread allready and earned only crticism for that from a lot of nightblades or sorcs... They want back a dummy (templar) for example to kill and no fair duell. As magicka Templar you need to play very defensive and there is nearly no option to make much pressure to the enemy. Only with ultis like the restro you can do pressure like sorcs and nightblades and we have something like a balance. You can compare templarultis with ultis from other classes and you see the problem... templar dont have just 1 ultimate, which is useful like ultis from these other classes and make him similar successful in reason of that... For this other classes this ultimate isnt a big buff like it is especially for templar!

I´ve fought actually good templars that did not use restoulti or 1h+shield.
Templar was the only class that could annihilate me through shieldcasting in 1tam + homestead patches.

If you can only go offensive on templar with resto/1h shield ulti you´ve been doing something wrong.

I want back proper fighting and not playing passively defensive until resto ult is back up. If that is what enables you to kill an opponent you´re in for a suprise when they start doing the same - because you´ll be back at the point where you don´t/can´t kill anything because you rely on a crutch mechanic to bolster your otherwise inadequate offense.
If your enemy chooses to just counterult you every time (resto v resto) you loose your only offensive window. Then you´re left with playing very defensively for the rest of the fight.
As stated before:

Baconlad wrote: »

Try it. Start a duel with the intention that you wont go offensive, even on your most ofensive build, you should not die if all you do is concentrate on defense. Its the going offensive that makes us have mistakes in our defense...so leave those ultis alone

You´re basically doing that. You play only defensively until your ult is up. Your opponent now chooses to counter your ultimate every time.
You´re left with only playing defensive. Only defense can hardly be broken at all.


Edit: Btw i don´t disagree about available ultimates for templar being subpar. They´re subpar for DK and Sorc (you can make an argument about attro but it´s still highly situational) aswell when they have to compete with incap for NB and Trees for warden.

DeHei

Derra wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I have a high damage magplar light armor build, i use bloodspawn, i use resto ult...

You see as a light armor magplar, my shields are nowhere near as strong as a NB, warden or sorc, there fore i must rely on mitigating damage through resists, and healing up. The problem with that is it forces magplars into defensive stances, when the other classes can just pop two shields and go back offensive.

The resto ulti allows me to build for damage and have more time being offensive. But look at what i have to sacrifice in order to get that. I dont get to use a offensive ultimate unless you suck and dont pressure me properly, i dont get to use an offensive monster helm, i dont get the same damage numbers or burst as a magsorc, magwarden, magblade or any stamina toon.

Now i can understand if you used resto ult as a magsorc woth 50k magic, thats kinda low. But hes not using an offensive ulti if hes using resto ult.

You need to time your burst, one good thing about magplars is they they are noticably harder to burst down due to having to build more for passive mitigation, but that come at a price of us not being able burst as well as others.

Its not to say my magplar sucks. My setup allows me to take on the most competent players in the game, and its a very well set up toon. I believe you should not be able to single handedly beat another player 1v1. All classes have great defense and only a improperly played or built toon who makes mistakes can lose. But thats the fun of dueling, everyone always makes mistakes at some point.

Try it. Start a duel with the intention that you wont go offensive, even on your most ofensive build, you should not die if all you do is concentrate on defense. Its the going offensive that makes us have mistakes in our defense...so leave those ultis alone

I explained this in a other thread allready and earned only crticism for that from a lot of nightblades or sorcs... They want back a dummy (templar) for example to kill and no fair duell. As magicka Templar you need to play very defensive and there is nearly no option to make much pressure to the enemy. Only with ultis like the restro you can do pressure like sorcs and nightblades and we have something like a balance. You can compare templarultis with ultis from other classes and you see the problem... templar dont have just 1 ultimate, which is useful like ultis from these other classes and make him similar successful in reason of that... For this other classes this ultimate isnt a big buff like it is especially for templar!

I´ve fought actually good templars that did not use restoulti or 1h+shield.
Templar was the only class that could annihilate me through shieldcasting in 1tam + homestead patches.

If you can only go offensive on templar with resto/1h shield ulti you´ve been doing something wrong.

I want back proper fighting and not playing passively defensive until resto ult is back up. If that is what enables you to kill an opponent you´re in for a suprise when they start doing the same - because you´ll be back at the point where you don´t/can´t kill anything because you rely on a crutch mechanic to bolster your otherwise inadequate offense.
If your enemy chooses to just counterult you every time (resto v resto) you loose your only offensive window. Then you´re left with playing very defensively for the rest of the fight.
As stated before:

Baconlad wrote: »

Try it. Start a duel with the intention that you wont go offensive, even on your most ofensive build, you should not die if all you do is concentrate on defense. Its the going offensive that makes us have mistakes in our defense...so leave those ultis alone

You´re basically doing that. You play only defensively until your ult is up. Your opponent now chooses to counter your ultimate every time.
You´re left with only playing defensive. Only defense can hardly be broken at all.


Edit: Btw i don´t disagree about available ultimates for templar being subpar. They´re subpar for DK and Sorc (you can make an argument about attro but it´s still highly situational) aswell when they have to compete with incap for NB and Trees for warden.

Let me explain again. Discribed wrong. I was learning how do go offensiv because of restoult and not before, because you dont had any time to go offensiv more then 3seconds in most fights. I can go offensiv without, but its much saver with this ultimate active, while i got much pressure. I learned that now, how i can play my templar more effective and build this build i actually play.

Fairest thing, would be stop using any ultimates in duell

Lord-Otto

Please, just let duels die. They're an unbalanced, monotonous mess and when they start affecting the real PvP's balance, we got a problem. Resto ult is one of the few things that can help certain classes a bit against being outnumbered. Don't nerf that for a terrible game mode that is insignificant in this game.

Betsararie

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Please, just let duels die. They're an unbalanced, monotonous mess and when they start affecting the real PvP's balance, we got a problem. Resto ult is one of the few things that can help certain classes a bit against being outnumbered. Don't nerf that for a terrible game mode that is insignificant in this game.

Nerfing resto ult would be terrible for the game and PvP, some people are just confused.

Lord-Otto

Blanco wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Please, just let duels die. They're an unbalanced, monotonous mess and when they start affecting the real PvP's balance, we got a problem. Resto ult is one of the few things that can help certain classes a bit against being outnumbered. Don't nerf that for a terrible game mode that is insignificant in this game.

Nerfing resto ult would be terrible for the game and PvP, some people are just confused.

Yeah, it's already hard enough to balance PvE with PvP. If we now start balancing for BG, duels, non-CP, Imp City, open Cyro and keeps, there is bound to appear chaos and confusion.

SanTii.92

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Please, just let duels die. They're an unbalanced, monotonous mess and when they start affecting the real PvP's balance, we got a problem. Resto ult is one of the few things that can help certain classes a bit against being outnumbered. Don't nerf that for a terrible game mode that is insignificant in this game.

I'm not asking for a nerf. I'm asking for common decency.

Lord-Otto

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Please, just let duels die. They're an unbalanced, monotonous mess and when they start affecting the real PvP's balance, we got a problem. Resto ult is one of the few things that can help certain classes a bit against being outnumbered. Don't nerf that for a terrible game mode that is insignificant in this game.

I'm not asking for a nerf. I'm asking for common decency.

Fair enough. Would be cool.
Won't happen, though.
._.

Emma_Overload

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm also perfectly content to use defensive ultis when my opponent is just turtling waiting for an offensive ulti to burst. This is literally the ideal counter to that strategy. I don't really see how a sorc camping mines and shield stacking waiting for DBoS to be up so he has a hope of bursting(or a stam build turtling while fury and leap/db are charging) is any different from me playing aggressively and using defensive ultis to supplement my survivability.

You're right, it's NOT any different. Reading through this thread, it's just obvious some guys are trying to use "forum-crafting" to negate the builds that give their builds some trouble. I've gotten salty whispers about the Resto ult from gankers who cloak away every time their HP gets within execute range... it's ridiculous!

Lexxypwns

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm also perfectly content to use defensive ultis when my opponent is just turtling waiting for an offensive ulti to burst. This is literally the ideal counter to that strategy. I don't really see how a sorc camping mines and shield stacking waiting for DBoS to be up so he has a hope of bursting(or a stam build turtling while fury and leap/db are charging) is any different from me playing aggressively and using defensive ultis to supplement my survivability.

You're right, it's NOT any different. Reading through this thread, it's just obvious some guys are trying to use "forum-crafting" to negate the builds that give their builds some trouble. I've gotten salty whispers about the Resto ult from gankers who cloak away every time their HP gets within execute range... it's ridiculous!

Look, I start all duels off playing aggressive and I think turtling of any kind for prolonged periods of a duel is generally going to negatively effect the fun of one or both parties and I absolutely avoid it unless some salty scrub hit me with that "100k duel" before hand. However, I don't think any form of doing it is worse than another.

In the current meta you can turtle for extreme amounts of time, even on heavy damage builds, without ever needing a defensive ultimate. Block casting BoL waiting for soul assault to come up so you can try to vamps bane+pl+soul assault+stun combo is far more assholish in duels as popping resto ult to relieve pressure and allow you to go offensive.

@SanTii.92 I'm curious, is it only defensive ultis or is it just outright turtling regardless of how it's done?

Waffennacht

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm also perfectly content to use defensive ultis when my opponent is just turtling waiting for an offensive ulti to burst. This is literally the ideal counter to that strategy. I don't really see how a sorc camping mines and shield stacking waiting for DBoS to be up so he has a hope of bursting(or a stam build turtling while fury and leap/db are charging) is any different from me playing aggressively and using defensive ultis to supplement my survivability.

You're right, it's NOT any different. Reading through this thread, it's just obvious some guys are trying to use "forum-crafting" to negate the builds that give their builds some trouble. I've gotten salty whispers about the Resto ult from gankers who cloak away every time their HP gets within execute range... it's ridiculous!

Look, I start all duels off playing aggressive and I think turtling of any kind for prolonged periods of a duel is generally going to negatively effect the fun of one or both parties and I absolutely avoid it unless some salty scrub hit me with that "100k duel" before hand. However, I don't think any form of doing it is worse than another.

In the current meta you can turtle for extreme amounts of time, even on heavy damage builds, without ever needing a defensive ultimate. Block casting BoL waiting for soul assault to come up so you can try to vamps bane+pl+soul assault+stun combo is far more assholish in duels as popping resto ult to relieve pressure and allow you to go offensive.

@SanTii.92 I'm curious, is it only defensive ultis or is it just outright turtling regardless of how it's done?

I dueled another Warden last night, he had the Shimmering Forest going, if he wanted. It wasn't gonna end unless I stopped using ults. I did eventually lose, no ults vs ults, ults gonna win

Baconlad

I want to make this clear. Ive been quoted a bit as if i only play defensive when dueling...thats just dumb. The goal of a fight is to win. Not draw. I start a fight with the intent on winning. As a magplar, i also understand that my best class defense is not dodgerolling, not block spamming, but PASSIVE MITIGATION and healing up damage done to me. Typically that means i must use heavy armor, or bloodspawn with light armor, sword and shield back bar.

This does not mean i stay defensive untill my spell wall is up, although somtimes i must due to the amount of pressure/ burst a magsorc puts down. Somtimes i wish my damage done would equal my defense. For example a magsorc casts two shields, and has 5 seconds of instant cast massive damage offense to throw down. Magplar do not work in this maner, if i want to win a fight, i cannot just throw on annulment in heavy armor with stacked spell damage lightarmor set up, i NEED mitigation. Without passive mitigation im playing a very risky set up. One that a sorc will be able to end me with one simple rotation. The resto ult or sword and shield ult allot me to go into defebsive and offensive phases while giving me the passive mitigation i need, much like a sorc stacking his shields, or a stam build casting weapon damage stacked vigor.

Give magplar a huge hot similar to vigor and you will see a much differebt playstyle comming from templar. I would like that accually, i wouldnt be forced to waste my ultimate usage on defense, and get to use my ultimate offensively like a sorc or stamblade.

VirtualElizabeth

Posts like this annoy me. No, other player, don't use anything that might possibly make me lose!

OdinForge

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Posts like this annoy me. No, other player, don't use anything that might possibly make me lose!

Based on your post you seem to think that popping defensive ults in a 1v1, will make your opponent lose. This isn't the case for even half decent players, although really newby players might lose to someone using defensive ults.

Otherwise I'm not really sure why your post is relevant to this thread. The underlying point by OP is that some players discard all chance of winning a fight by only using defensive ults, because they aren't comfortable going on the offensive. Resulting in fights that just never end, not like this is a new thing to ESO though.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Stalling fights for 10-15 minutes +. Or do I need to slot ravage resources poisons. Hope not.

By the time 1.5 was coming to an end, 1v1s between certain classes were impossible to finish (magsorc vs magsorc for example). And that was at a time where defensive ults like 1H & Resto were not around. Use whatever ult you need to at the end of the day, but it's silly to think delaying the end of a 1v1 you clearly cannot win by using defensive ults is okay to some people.

The best scenario I can come up with was a pretty decent magwarden of recently in IC. The dude must have popped like 15 trees over the course of a ridiculous 10 minute 1v1 where neither of us were using poisons. I was fighting him on a medium armor stamplar setup I was using to grind skills, and had he simply just tried to combo one or two meteors I probably would have lost. Every time he popped a tree I just spent my time getting some of my resources back, instead of losing what little I had left to stave off a meteor combo or something.

Delaying 1v1 fights by any means be it cloak, LOS or being overly defensive is pretty lame, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't voice or opinion about defensive ults. As I said there isn't much point because it doesn't seem like ZOS has any interest in getting to a point where 1v1s matter, there was a time where they did work well. ZOS has been pushing the game into a rock paper scissor tossup for a while.

Meh.

DeHei

Baconlad wrote: »

I want to make this clear. Ive been quoted a bit as if i only play defensive when dueling...thats just dumb. The goal of a fight is to win. Not draw. I start a fight with the intent on winning. As a magplar, i also understand that my best class defense is not dodgerolling, not block spamming, but PASSIVE MITIGATION and healing up damage done to me. Typically that means i must use heavy armor, or bloodspawn with light armor, sword and shield back bar.

This does not mean i stay defensive untill my spell wall is up, although somtimes i must due to the amount of pressure/ burst a magsorc puts down. Somtimes i wish my damage done would equal my defense. For example a magsorc casts two shields, and has 5 seconds of instant cast massive damage offense to throw down. Magplar do not work in this maner, if i want to win a fight, i cannot just throw on annulment in heavy armor with stacked spell damage lightarmor set up, i NEED mitigation. Without passive mitigation im playing a very risky set up. One that a sorc will be able to end me with one simple rotation. The resto ult or sword and shield ult allot me to go into defebsive and offensive phases while giving me the passive mitigation i need, much like a sorc stacking his shields, or a stam build casting weapon damage stacked vigor.

Give magplar a huge hot similar to vigor and you will see a much differebt playstyle comming from templar. I would like that accually, i wouldnt be forced to waste my ultimate usage on defense, and get to use my ultimate offensively like a sorc or stamblade.

You can use rapid regeneration like me from healingstaff. This is a very strong hot, together with your ritual (next hot) and the hot from purifying light, when the enemy is in meleerange. Then you have Degeneration, its a hot and a chance for a small heal with every weaponattack. You can go with very much healing, so you dont need 1H+shield or heavy armor.

But its true, what you say, we need damage mitigation, else we are a onehit against every good placed rotation..