Make crime more of a risk

coop500

Edit: I give up, no one wants to have a meaningful discussion about this and rather just insult my intelligence, so you all may calm down now about your precious crime sprees.

Seriously, it's so easy to rob and murder the NPCs in this game it's so easy mode these days. Crime is a risk, yet it has zero risk in this game. If you get caught, at the worst you'll die, have to wait until heat dies down, then pay your bounty. That's at the worst and if you don't know the tricks. The tricks being, all you have to do is log off, wait or play a different toon, come back and you're fine. The guards are a joke about actually being a true danger, so basically it's all free gold.

We need something that's reasonable, but makes it a actual risk, make people be careful and think twice. I hear players in chat not even sneaking when they steal, they just grab, run to the hideouts and sell the stuff, no actual stealth involved there, just running. Just about anyone can do it too. It needs a good drawback to being caught, so at least people will have to care more about messing up. What happened to risk and reward? Instead of all just reward with little risk.

Edit: Some folks wanted a suggestion, so here: But if you really want a suggestion, how about time for time? If you get caught, you suffer a decrease in XP gain for a few hours that acts as a XP buff, as in, no logging off to avoid it. It doesn't have to be big, just enough to be irking so people will go occasionally "eh I don't feel at the top of my game, so I'll wait until I feel more sneaky"

Megabear

Yes, crime deserves a bigger risk for the reward

Well, I'm really voting for bigger risk "BIGGER" reward.

theher0not

No! It's fine the way it is.

IMHO the reward isn't big enough to justify more risk.

Though I'd be fine with it if they increase the rewards (as long as it isn't unfair)

twev

Other

Responses #2 and #3 are correct.

dpencil1

I was hoping there would be some suggestions by the OP about what greater risks there should be. It certainly stings when a guard catches you while you're bag is full of stolen stuff, so you either pay the fine and lose everything or try to run and possibly die and lose everything.

If you made it too "dangerous" players would just stop doing it at all.

TempusFugit

No! It's fine the way it is.

coop500 wrote: »

...If you get caught, at the worst you'll die, have to wait until heat dies down, then pay your bounty. That's at the worst and if you don't know the tricks. The tricks being, all you have to do is log off, wait or play a different toon, come back and you're fine. The guards are a joke about actually being a true danger, so basically it's all free gold.

Agreed that accumulating bounty is part of the risk that can be dealt with as you have stated.

However, part of the risk also includes losing all the items you lifted during an items liberation run. Thus, I had to vote no. Things are fine as they are.

Best Regards,

coop500

Yes, crime deserves a bigger risk for the reward

dpencil1 wrote: »

I was hoping there would be some suggestions by the OP about what greater risks there should be. It certainly stings when a guard catches you while you're bag is full of stolen stuff, so you either pay the fine and lose everything or try to run and possibly die and lose everything.

If you made it too "dangerous" players would just stop doing it at all.

It's so easy to run though, it's hardly a challenge.

coop500

Yes, crime deserves a bigger risk for the reward

TempusFugit wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

...If you get caught, at the worst you'll die, have to wait until heat dies down, then pay your bounty. That's at the worst and if you don't know the tricks. The tricks being, all you have to do is log off, wait or play a different toon, come back and you're fine. The guards are a joke about actually being a true danger, so basically it's all free gold.

Agreed that accumulating bounty is part of the risk that can be dealt with as you have stated.

However, part of the risk also includes losing all the items you lifted during an items liberation run. Thus, I had to vote no. Things are fine as they are.

Best Regards,

That's not a risk, that's just losing what you gained, but overall you lost nothing but a bit of time. I mean a real risk.

Megabear

Yes, crime deserves a bigger risk for the reward

coop500 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

I was hoping there would be some suggestions by the OP about what greater risks there should be. It certainly stings when a guard catches you while you're bag is full of stolen stuff, so you either pay the fine and lose everything or try to run and possibly die and lose everything.

If you made it too "dangerous" players would just stop doing it at all.

It's so easy to run though, it's hardly a challenge.

Yup, no suspense whatsoever. It's like, meh/annoying.

coop500

Yes, crime deserves a bigger risk for the reward

dpencil1 wrote: »

I was hoping there would be some suggestions by the OP about what greater risks there should be. It certainly stings when a guard catches you while you're bag is full of stolen stuff, so you either pay the fine and lose everything or try to run and possibly die and lose everything.

If you made it too "dangerous" players would just stop doing it at all.

I didn't make any suggestions because there's always someone who'll pick out a small detail of what they don't like and ignore the rest.

But if you really want a suggestion, how about time for time? If you get caught, you suffer a decrease in XP gain for a few hours that acts as a XP buff, as in, no logging off to avoid it. It doesn't have to be big, just enough to be irking so people will go occasionally "eh I don't feel at the top of my game, so I'll wait until I feel more sneaky"

Khenarthi

No! It's fine the way it is.

It's fine the way it is, the risk vs reward is balanced. You can make much more gold running other kinds of content for far less risk, and I for one do not feel the need for extra challenge - when I do, I will respec my passives away and go stealing naked.

SisterGoat

No! It's fine the way it is.

I wonder how many people have gotten a bounty large enough to need the Grand Amnesty Edict.

Tandor

Other

I wouldn't vote for increased risk without knowing what the actual proposal was, too many griefers and exploiters wanting to jump on a vote in that direction to claim it supports adding PvP to it.

I'm certainly not averse to making the PvE risks and penalties for PvE crimes a bit more severe, but bear in mind (1) that if you make it too tough then it will simply deter people from participating, the game is meant to be fun rather than a battle against the odds, and (2) that any risks and penalties need to be set against the standards of the average player, not the ones with maxed out sneaking and thieving skills, CPs and gear. With the second point in mind, there's certainly an argument for saying it's fine as it is even if some do find it all a bit too easy.

What I am firmly against is ZOS introducing stealing into basic and festival event quests without offering an alternative option. A lot of players adopt a position of not being overt lawbreakers with certain characters - in my case it's my holy paladin-type templar even tho I'm not a roleplayer as such - and it's extremely irksome to find yourself locked out of certain quests and achievements because you're unwilling to have that character stealing or trespassing etc.

TheShadowScout

Yes, crime deserves a bigger risk for the reward

coop500 wrote: »

Seriously, it's so easy to rob and murder the NPCs in this game it's so easy mode these days. Crime is a risk, yet it has zero risk in this game. If you get caught, at the worst you'll die, have to wait until heat dies down, then pay your bounty...

Agreed, it is a bit annoying how the risks are so low, some people don't even bother to try and not get caught anymore. And yes, it makes me wish there were some more risk options as well... not mere fines, or bounty that decreased over time, but something more. Like...
...timeout, spending ten minutes of your game time in the stocks (with other players getting a "throw rotten fruit" emote when near you)?
...or a public whipping if you rack up more of a bounty, with a lingering debuff to HP for a time afterwards?
...or for hardened career criminals, even a "prison isle" public dungeon, where they have to work off their bounty through mind-numbing repetetive tasks like breaking rocks or sweing jute sacks... (or find the hidden "jailbreak" quest)

One other thing might be a bounty that -never- decreases, but -has- to be paid off. Possibly even split between the alliances, so someone could be a hero in the pact, but public enemy number one in the dominion...
In that idea the heat would die down, but the bounty would not. Guards would only go after you if the heat was high, but not recognize you after the heat died down... but -IF- you get cauight, all the old bounty will still be there, waiting for you... and of course, the higher your bounty climbed, the slower the heat would decrease, until at some point your bounty because so high that -every- guard was expected to have seen your wanted poster, and the heat never dies down again until your bounty is taken care of...

Or both. I'd love a rework of the justice system with both "eternal bounty" and "alternate punishments"...

Tandor wrote: »

What I am firmly against is ZOS introducing stealing into basic and festival event quests without offering an alternative option. A lot of players adopt a position of not being overt lawbreakers with certain characters - in my case it's my holy paladin-type templar even tho I'm not a roleplayer as such - and it's extremely irksome to find yourself locked out of certain quests and achievements because you're unwilling to have that character stealing or trespassing etc.

Agreed.

There ought to be ways around this. Now, there are several mainstory quests where you are supposed to treaspass... but they are either very minor and thus skippable, or with a nice righteous backstory... though I still wish there was a "search warrant" item that would unlock a door and let you go in without it being a crime to retrieve stolen goods for the "artisan" quest in greenshade for example...

And that goes twice for any festival stuff! I would much have preferred it if you were given a chopice... for example, -either- steal the apple from the stables, -or- go to the other end of the map to pick your own apple. Etc.

TheAngelofDeath99

No! It's fine the way it is.

theher0not wrote: »

IMHO the reward isn't big enough to justify more risk.

Though I'd be fine with it if they increase the rewards (as long as it isn't unfair)

This

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Other

If you are going to raise the risk the reward needs to go up. It is rewarding long term now so the risk is pretty in target for such a grindy thing. But if it became more risky I would want more out of it.

Theosis

I don't think the reward is worth it. the risk is minimal because the rewards are minimal.

Runschei

No! It's fine the way it is.

With a hogh enough bounty no NPC want to deal with you unless you're in an outlaw. Too bad if you don't have the DLCs/ESO+ as TG and DB allows you to even visit guild store and bank, while regular outlaws only gives you your own bank option. I have not tested the bank in Coldharbour yet, but I think you can cjeck out guild bank and/or store there with a bounty tho.

kargen27

coop500 wrote: »

TempusFugit wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

...If you get caught, at the worst you'll die, have to wait until heat dies down, then pay your bounty. That's at the worst and if you don't know the tricks. The tricks being, all you have to do is log off, wait or play a different toon, come back and you're fine. The guards are a joke about actually being a true danger, so basically it's all free gold.

Agreed that accumulating bounty is part of the risk that can be dealt with as you have stated.

However, part of the risk also includes losing all the items you lifted during an items liberation run. Thus, I had to vote no. Things are fine as they are.

Best Regards,

That's not a risk, that's just losing what you gained, but overall you lost nothing but a bit of time. I mean a real risk.

That is more of a risk than running a dungeon. Die in a dungeon and you don't lose all the things you looted in the dungeon. Really the only two things in the game that have any risk at all is getting caught thieving while you have loot on you and dying in Imperial City or the sewers with Telvar stones in your pockets.

STEVIL

Other

i choose other because i have a disagreement and an agreement.

First, no crime is not too rewarding.

Go run maybe an horu each of the casual repeatable content type and then see what you gained.

1. Delving thru delves as part of dailies, especially ones with motifs and sets that are worthwhile.
2. Just running up and down a beach killing mudcrabs.
3. Running around a good location farming beasties
4. Running around a good location farming mats of value.
5. Running quests in the main line and side lines.
6. Stealing stuff without accruing bounty or paying off bounty sustainably
7. Murder NPCs without accruing bounty or paying off bounty sustainably.

if you do these for a good time each, do each with planning and praparation and skill, dont do any exploit type stuff like finding a repeating insta-spawn chest or something, and you will find that the gains per time overall are not greater for the injustice ones than for the others. You will likely find delving in good motif drop delves with dailies to be the most overall profitable considering the variety of reqards including xp and other goods not just gold.

last time i ran these comparisons, the injustice fell in the middle - with delving and mudcrabbing actulally being pretty much tops. that has been a while but it was after 1T.

So, NO the generic injustice content does not have an out-of-whack risk-to-reward over time ratio for its play when compared to the other casual repeatable content.

As such, it does not need to be changed to get that. there is no reason to change the content others are playing and enjoying just because it isn't challening to those well equipped and well prepared.

Now for the agreement - i would LOVE to see more injustice content added with it including higher level gameplay of higher difficulty. there is nothing wrong with ADDING new higher difficulty or vet-level injustice pve content... none at all.

But to do that does not require replacing or removing the stuff we already have and that is not out of whack.

ADD more or better if what is there is not to your liking, but dont takeaway what some are now enjoying.

maybe take a cue from the dungeons - they did not remove normal dungeons - they added tougher vet and hard modes with higher rewards and kept the normals.

Someone else does not have to lose stuff for you to get stuff you like, really, they dont.

altemriel

Other

coop500 wrote: »

Seriously, it's so easy to rob and murder the NPCs in this game it's so easy mode these days. Crime is a risk, yet it has zero risk in this game. If you get caught, at the worst you'll die, have to wait until heat dies down, then pay your bounty. That's at the worst and if you don't know the tricks. The tricks being, all you have to do is log off, wait or play a different toon, come back and you're fine. The guards are a joke about actually being a true danger, so basically it's all free gold.

We need something that's reasonable, but makes it a actual risk, make people be careful and think twice. I hear players in chat not even sneaking when they steal, they just grab, run to the hideouts and sell the stuff, no actual stealth involved there, just running. Just about anyone can do it too. It needs a good drawback to being caught, so at least people will have to care more about messing up. What happened to risk and reward? Instead of all just reward with little risk.

Edit: Some folks wanted a suggestion, so here: But if you really want a suggestion, how about time for time? If you get caught, you suffer a decrease in XP gain for a few hours that acts as a XP buff, as in, no logging off to avoid it. It doesn't have to be big, just enough to be irking so people will go occasionally "eh I don't feel at the top of my game, so I'll wait until I feel more sneaky"

Your soul will be delivered to Sithis soon

With dark event in her mind
Maoimii the Elder Vampire Shade of Death

PlagueSD

No! It's fine the way it is.

coop500 wrote: »

I hear players in chat not even sneaking when they steal, they just grab, run to the hideouts and sell the stuff, no actual stealth involved there, just running.

I guess you don't know about Night's Silence (stam) or Shadow Dancer's Raiment (magica) armor sets. These completely remove the movement speed penalty of sneak. You can also add the 3 piece Night Terror set bonus for reduced detection range and lower sneak cost. (along with wood elf or Khajit racial and medium armor passives) I can easily run up, use "force lock" on a lockbox, loot and be gone in about 2 seconds. With barrels and bags, I barely stop moving.

out51d3r

PvE is easy in general in this game. Theft isn't any easier than the rest of it.

crjs1

No! It's fine the way it is.

Rewards aren't worth an increase in risk. If you could gain a lot more gold through theft then yes increase risk, but not as it currently stands. Theft is a great way for low level players to make a bit of gold early, making it too risky will be too off putting

MehrunesFlagon

coop500 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

I was hoping there would be some suggestions by the OP about what greater risks there should be. It certainly stings when a guard catches you while you're bag is full of stolen stuff, so you either pay the fine and lose everything or try to run and possibly die and lose everything.

If you made it too "dangerous" players would just stop doing it at all.

I didn't make any suggestions because there's always someone who'll pick out a small detail of what they don't like and ignore the rest.

But if you really want a suggestion, how about time for time? If you get caught, you suffer a decrease in XP gain for a few hours that acts as a XP buff, as in, no logging off to avoid it. It doesn't have to be big, just enough to be irking so people will go occasionally "eh I don't feel at the top of my game, so I'll wait until I feel more sneaky"

so then basically go to coldharbour and set a macro so you don't get auto booted?

ADarklore

No! It's fine the way it is.

Sorry, but there are DLCs devoted specifically to forcing you to rob and murder... so no, penalizing someone for following a quest line is a no go!

idk

No! It's fine the way it is.

OP says the worst that happens when one has a bounty is they can die. I cannot think of anything worse than death itself.

Oh, and one loses their stolen loot they may have on them.

BrianDavion

No! It's fine the way it is.

I have a question for the OP "is your ledgermain maxed out?" because if it is then yeah, it's gonna be pretty easy, you've invested time and points into making it easy.

Honghua

No! It's fine the way it is.

Someone has to be not right in the head if want to make theving in this game harder to do.

You actually could farm gold by killing hordes of mobs and sell items to make twice as much gold than you would do with thieving.
Put on top of that dropping some rare items from the world bosses and you are three times more effective than thief + you are lvling as well, and you cant lose the gold you made already.
I was a big fan of the robbing in the game, until i hit 160 cp and realized there is absolutely no point in doing that other than for fun...
If anything, we have to make crime more rewarding and interesting to do, because right now it is only newbies job and there is literally no point of doing it at the end game, it's absolute useless waste of time, the rewards are shait.

ProfessorKittyhawk

I just went on a killing spree on my serial killer nightblade argonian. Had to basically fight guards to have any threat of dying. Intentionally racked up 143k+ bounty on him before dying. Didn't have any gold or loot on me. Felt like I had to try to die. That was when I was going to end my spree. Went on longer than I'd anticipated.

Alchemical

No! It's fine the way it is.

Stealing doesn't even reward very much, unless you're selling 150 purples per day, which you are probably not going to accomplish. I got my first purple a week ago after MONTHS of raiding pockets.

Having a huge bounty isn't that big a deal because you can just deposit all your gold and walk around consequence free. If you watch the guard rotations you can still walk around town with, say, a 200k bounty on your head not that I ever did such a thing. It IS an inconvenience not to have freedom of movement without harassment, and it does take a modicum of paying attention to get around it.

Still, with 50 pardon edicts in my bags I don't really worry about being seen. It's easier to just murder someone in broad daylight and write it off. I wish there was more, harder sneaking content besides the sacraments and heists, but pickpocketing/stealing alone as is barely breaks even if you get caught a lot.