Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

PVP - Any plans on balancing heavy armor finally?

  • DeHei
    DeHei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Against all math, it is just a fact, that medium armor players can lose there life in just 1 soul assoult ult. Only nightblades can use cloak to break that ult or other stuff like purifying light!

    In heavy armor this all doesnt matter..

    I dont play staminachars very much, because i am just really not good at them like i would be. But i see, that medium armor is to weak in defense in realtion to heavy armor. My pressure on heavy armor guys is lower too, so i get bigger damage from heavy armor guys too. Medium armor is not bad, you can try to burst people down, but it really need a kind of damage mitigationbuff.
    DeHei - EP Magicka Templar Allrounder
    De Hei(Youtube)
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Honghua wrote: »

    In a world where more experienced players than you play.

    So you are telling me, 189 magicka and stamina regeneration from constitute is overpowered?
    28% stamina regeneration boost and 14% cost reduction is useless right?
    800 stamina saved and regenerated each second is useless, even if you consider rapid mending passive, medium armor stamina sustain is still superior to heavy armor and is much more reliable.


    Oh, go ahead - just ignore all the math done previously on this thread and post your own bogus numbers. Wonderful.

    Constitution 189 magicka & stamina regeneration, what?

    I'll break it down to you:
    Constitution procs every 4 seconds, unless you've got absolutely no one attacking you and no DoTs on you.
    Regen ticks every 2 seconds.

    Constitution=108 stamina/magicka for each piece of heavy armor every proc

    108*5 (5/1/1 setup)=540 every 4 seconds, or 270 every 2 seconds, meaning 270 "regen", not 189.

    But since you were comparing this to 7 medium setup (which gets the 0.28 modifier to stamina regen):
    108*7 (7 heavy)=756 every 4 seconds, or 378 every 2 seconds, meaning 378 "regen", definitely not 189.

    Also, there are no skills that get reduced by "800 per second" with the cost reduction. In fact, the cost reduction is much less than you'd think.

    Surprise Attack in 5/1/1 Heavy costs you 2250 stamina
    Surprise Attack in 5/1/1 Medium costs you 2066 stamina - Cost reduced by 184.
    Surprise Attack in 7 Medium costs you 1974 stamina - Cost reduced by 276.

    Shuffle in 5/1/1 Heavy costs you 4234 stamina
    Shuffle in 5/1/1 Medium costs you 3888 stamina - Cost reduced by 346
    Shuffle in 7 Medium costs you 3716 stamina - Cost reduced by 518


    So even if you were spamming Shuffle (1.3s between casts btw) for some mysterious reason, the most you'd save per second would be around 440 stamina. For something more ordinary (e.g. Surprise Attack), you'd get the equivalent of roughly 235 stamina/second.

    In reality though, you won't be spamming stamina skills every second as there'll be magicka costing things inbetween, CC breaks, dodge rolls, blocking etc.


    Bottom line is, the only way a medium build is going to get better sustain than heavy is by sacrificing a lot of damage for stam regen bonuses.
    Honghua wrote: »
    Heavy attack is interuptable and you dont have to take damage all the time to make an use of constitution passive.
    And what about the 28% dodge roll cost reduction on medium armor? Which is essential against roots and other CC.

    And the next thing to correct... there are no interruptable heavy attacks, period. There are dodgeable ones though (and undodgeable ones).

    The amount of dodge rolls you can make is roughly the same between heavy & medium thanks to the exponential cost (see my calculations on previous page).
    Honghua wrote: »
    We are really playing the different games, otherwise i cannot tell, if people saying heavy armor grants more sustain and damage than medium armor are serious or just trolling.
    Wrath passive grants 200 weapon and spell damage, but you have to survive 20 hits from the enemy and sustain that for all the time, otherwise you will lose it in 5 seconds. And its not like stamina characters could heal of for enough to sustain those hits, and the shields doesnt really have the heavy armor resistances either.
    Medium armor passive grants 12% weapon damage, which it is easly around 300 permament weapon damage and 2296 crit rate on top of that.

    Yes, agreed. Wrath passive is quite weak, unless you're comparing it to some potato stam build with less than 2000 unbuffed weapon damage.

    Around 2000 is the breaking point where Agility starts outperforming Wrath.
    2000+12%(Agility)=240 weapon damage
    200(Wrath)+20% (Major Brutality)=240

    Of course Dragonknight has access to Minor Brutality, in which case Wrath gives 250 weapon damage and you'd need 2084 base weapon damage for Agility to outperform Wrath, and there are various other percentage modifiers that apply to Wrath (Flawless Dawnbreaker etc).


    But for any serious build (3k+ base), Agility is the stronger passive - there's no question about that.

    That said, if you're having trouble taking hits in heavy armor you're doing something wrong. A good stamina heavy armor build can easily outheal any incoming damage (as long as you block or dodge heavy hitters like Incap/frags etc), unless you're severely outnumbered.
    Honghua wrote: »
    People are trying to do math and compare the armor passives, but keeps ignoring the conditions you have to fulfill to actually get any benefits from heavy armor itself.
    Sure the resistances makes the difference and thats all, but dont tell people heavy armor grants more of X than medium because its absolute *** seriously.
    Its not like you do the balancing at all.

    No, it's not absolute ***, it's demonstrably true.

    And I wish atleast someone did the balancing (perhaps the developers of this game) so that medium armor is enjoyable to play.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Honghua wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    SydneyGrey wrote: »
    Heavy armor was already nerfed.
    Also, people have a DPS and sustain loss when they use heavy armor. If you think heavy armor is so OP, they why aren't you using it? Oh, right .. because you know your DPS and sustain will go down the toilet if you do.
    #NoMoreNerfs
    Buff medium, leave heavy alone.

    There's another very simple explanation as to why some people don't use heavy (despite it obviously being better): they don't want to.

    I, for instance, have mained "rogue" characters in pretty much every (MMO)RPG I've played - if you slap on heavy armor & S&B, you're not playing a rogue character, you're playing a "tank" character and that entirely changes how you play (and enjoy/don't enjoy) the game.


    As to why heavy armor is significantly better (no, your DPS & sustain won't go "down the toilet"), here's some numbers for you:

    Medium 5/1/1 with 5x Hunding's 4/5x Sheer Venom 2x Selene (a *very* high dmg setup) - 3911 Weapon Damage (with Major Brutality), 33,5k Stam

    Heavy 5/1/1 with 5x Fury 5x Legion 2x Selene - 4926 Weapon Damage (with Major Brutality), 29,8k Stam


    ...well well, heavy armor gets more damage (yes, those sets are up close to 100% of time, even in 1v1).

    And sustain in that gear is much easier than in damage heavy medium gear, trust me.


    But yeah, I agree that nerfs aren't necessarily in order, it should simply be a matter of buffing medium armor as light vs heavy is much more comparable in terms of survivability & dmg.

    A good place to start would be giving medium armor a reliable way of surviving that isn't mitigation/blocking (that's heavy armor's thing) - dodge roll is virtually useless these days with most skills ignoring it entirely.

    Sure, 10% chance to get weapon damage, and 30 weapon damage increase stacking up 25 times for 6 seconds for each critical hit RECEIVED in pvp.
    Good luck on that.

    Assuming there's a light attack+skill (every 1,3s) & 2 DoTs ticking (every 1-2s), it's not that hard to imagine a 10% chance on occurring atleast once every 5 seconds (it has no cooldown).

    As for Fury, all it takes is one DoT on you & it's basicly impossible to lose your stacks. The only way for your opponent to get rid of them is to stop attacking you, which is not a winning strategy in any fight (the heavy armor user can just use that time to deal damage to you and/or regain resources).

    If there's multiple people hitting you, you'll be fully capped in a matter of seconds.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Lots of insights in this thread, I hope dev eyes find it. Heavy armor has a certain stigma about it, but there also seems to be a lot of general agreement that the skill line passives are actually in a very respectable place and seem to be somewhat balanced with light armor passives.

    I really hope medium gets the buff it deserves (without buffing stamblades ffs). The obvious choice is to replace Improved Sneak but it would be muy bueno if they also completely replaced passive dodge with a parry mechanic.

    I also hope Healing Ward size scaling gets nerfed a bit and resto/snb ultimate costs get increased, but that's not super relevant here.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    Lots of insights in this thread, I hope dev eyes find it. Heavy armor has a certain stigma about it, but there also seems to be a lot of general agreement that the skill line passives are actually in a very respectable place and seem to be somewhat balanced with light armor passives.

    I really hope medium gets the buff it deserves (without buffing stamblades ffs). The obvious choice is to replace Improved Sneak but it would be muy bueno if they also completely replaced passive dodge with a parry mechanic.

    I also hope Healing Ward size scaling gets nerfed a bit and resto/snb ultimate costs get increased, but that's not super relevant here.

    Trust me, medium armor being garbage affects stamblades just as well (maybe not as much as the other classes, but it's still garbage). You deal a ton of damage as stamblade, but in medium armor you're just free AP to anyone with undodgeable skills and ways to counter cloak.

    Today I learned that Burning Embers alone deals 200 more damage than my Vigor heals (with 7 impen, 4,9k weapon dmg & 34k stamina). Try surviving that when it procs 3k Skorias, ignores your dodge roll & the magicka DK spams Volatile Armor whenever you try to cloak, and any burst you might have gets mitigated by heavy armor+block.

    Experiences like that just make me wonder why am I still playing this game.
    Edited by DDuke on August 23, 2017 4:02AM
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    Lots of insights in this thread, I hope dev eyes find it. Heavy armor has a certain stigma about it, but there also seems to be a lot of general agreement that the skill line passives are actually in a very respectable place and seem to be somewhat balanced with light armor passives.

    I really hope medium gets the buff it deserves (without buffing stamblades ffs). The obvious choice is to replace Improved Sneak but it would be muy bueno if they also completely replaced passive dodge with a parry mechanic.

    I also hope Healing Ward size scaling gets nerfed a bit and resto/snb ultimate costs get increased, but that's not super relevant here.

    Trust me, medium armor being garbage affects stamblades just as well (maybe not as much as the other classes, but it's still garbage). You deal a ton of damage as stamblade, but in medium armor you're just free AP to anyone with undodgeable skills and ways to counter cloak.

    Today I learned that Burning Embers alone deals 200 more damage than my Vigor heals (with 7 impen, 4,9k weapon dmg & 34k stamina). Try surviving that when it procs 3k Skorias, ignores your dodge roll & the magicka DK spams Volatile Armor whenever you try to cloak, and any burst you might have gets mitigated by heavy armor+block.

    Experiences like that just make me wonder why am I still playing this game.

    Haha! I feel ya @DDuke, I've got some real Skoria PTSD from battlegrounds since Morrowind dropped. Combat has been very discouraging overall for a medium bowplar - It's going to be painful to wallow at the bottom of the meta totem pole for at least another 3 months. Am I a masochist?
  • Cyrediath
    Cyrediath
    ✭✭✭
    Oh let me tel you something heavy magdks udually have around 1.5-1.7k spell damage
    DDuke wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    Lots of insights in this thread, I hope dev eyes find it. Heavy armor has a certain stigma about it, but there also seems to be a lot of general agreement that the skill line passives are actually in a very respectable place and seem to be somewhat balanced with light armor passives.

    I really hope medium gets the buff it deserves (without buffing stamblades ffs). The obvious choice is to replace Improved Sneak but it would be muy bueno if they also completely replaced passive dodge with a parry mechanic.

    I also hope Healing Ward size scaling gets nerfed a bit and resto/snb ultimate costs get increased, but that's not super relevant here.

    Trust me, medium armor being garbage affects stamblades just as well (maybe not as much as the other classes, but it's still garbage). You deal a ton of damage as stamblade, but in medium armor you're just free AP to anyone with undodgeable skills and ways to counter cloak.

    Today I learned that Burning Embers alone deals 200 more damage than my Vigor heals (with 7 impen, 4,9k weapon dmg & 34k stamina). Try surviving that when it procs 3k Skorias, ignores your dodge roll & the magicka DK spams Volatile Armor whenever you try to cloak, and any burst you might have gets mitigated by heavy armor+block.

    Experiences like that just make me wonder why am I still playing this game.

    so ember deals less than you think. oh skoria is prpccing dks have aoe skills that makes me cloak useless so heavy armor is op and medium sucks. Best argument here.

    Im not choosing any side but comments are so biased.

    People saying 2k weapon damage + medium equaks to wrath + major brutality. yea how about adding major brutality to both equations?

    Its just so obvious some medium armor users here trying to manipulate people. Let me tell you something. Medium armor always will have more weapon damage + sustain co pared to heavy no matter what. if you wear medium armor and try to play it like heavy you are doing it wrong. you will dodge roll and use evasion. you are trying to tank the incoming damage or block/heal like heavy and you fail that well its your problem. they have different play styles. if you want to tank and block wear heavy. if you are wearing medium get used to dodge rolling, timing your stuns and bursts.

    if you are having hard time against heavy armor its because they time their bursts when they have their buffs up. Wepon damage sets in heavy usually requires for yoh to take damage. if you are playing against a sorcerer that using curse + frag or nb using concealed weapon etc you wont be sitting at 200 weapon damage all the time trust me.

    to sum up; if you want to have more mobility, run faster, sneak, dodge roll etc use medium armor. if you like blocking, taking damage and heal through it use heavy armor. if you want to play in this style but wearing medium armor you are doing it wrong.

    and just advice, you can use incap, disease damage etc to reduce the healing of your oppenent and its super effective. you can reduce the resists of heavy armor by having more penetration or with debuffs. but you cant do anything againts sustain, roll dodge cost reduction etc of medium (except poisons)
  • Honghua
    Honghua
    ✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Oh, go ahead - just ignore all the math done previously on this thread and post your own bogus numbers. Wonderful.

    Constitution 189 magicka & stamina regeneration, what?

    it regains 108 magicka and stamina each piece every 4 seconds, 108 x7 / 4 = 189. Eot.
    DDuke wrote: »
    Also, there are no skills that get reduced by "800 per second" with the cost reduction. In fact, the cost reduction is much less than you'd think.

    800 stamina per second is including stamina regeneration gap.
    Having 1100 base stamina regen, you have 308 more stamina regeneration than the someone with the heavy armor set.
    Include into it spamming skills from idk 2h weapon that on average cost 2500 stamina, and you have 350 stamina saved each cast.
    That means 350 stamina saved each ability cast + 308 stamina regen, and thats all in the lowest possible scenario.
    The higher cost the bigger advantage on medium armor side.
    DDuke wrote: »
    And the next thing to correct... there are no interruptable heavy attacks, period. There are dodgeable ones though (and undodgeable ones).

    The amount of dodge rolls you can make is roughly the same between heavy & medium thanks to the exponential cost (see my calculations on previous page).

    You are vuneruable to the CC's during heavy attack winding up, if something will be thrown at you, you will not gain any stamina.
    DDuke wrote: »
    That said, if you're having trouble taking hits in heavy armor you're doing something wrong. A good stamina heavy armor build can easily outheal any incoming damage (as long as you block or dodge heavy hitters like Incap/frags etc), unless you're severely outnumbered.

    Sure it does, but not the ones that are aimed 100% on dealing damage, and we are talking about these, not the builds that makes you impossible to kill tank.
    There is about 27% difference in resistances between medium and heavy, and the difference is one digit high in real damage mitigation you cant jump over that.
    DDuke wrote: »
    No, it's not absolute ***, it's demonstrably true.

    And I wish atleast someone did the balancing (perhaps the developers of this game) so that medium armor is enjoyable to play.

    And the truth is, if something needs extreme conditions to be served in order to outperform other things, that doesnt mean it is "stronger".
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    so ember deals less than you think. oh skoria is prpccing dks have aoe skills that makes me cloak useless so heavy armor is op and medium sucks. Best argument here.

    Im not choosing any side but comments are so biased.

    People saying 2k weapon damage + medium equaks to wrath + major brutality. yea how about adding major brutality to both equations?
    DDuke wrote: »
    Yes, agreed. Wrath passive is quite weak, unless you're comparing it to some potato stam build with less than 2000 unbuffed weapon damage.

    Around 2000 is the breaking point where Agility starts outperforming Wrath.
    2000+12%(Agility)=240 weapon damage
    200(Wrath)+20% (Major Brutality)=240

    He did add major brutality. For medium armor it wouldn't make any difference, bc agility and major/minor brutality are additive, so they don't effect each other.
    Honghua wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Oh, go ahead - just ignore all the math done previously on this thread and post your own bogus numbers. Wonderful.

    Constitution 189 magicka & stamina regeneration, what?

    it regains 108 magicka and stamina each piece every 4 seconds, 108 x7 / 4 = 189. Eot.

    regeneration ticks every 2 seconds, so it's 108 per piece * 7 =756 every 4 seconds; 756/2 =378 every 2 seconds and therefore comparable to regeneration.

    people should really learn base-game mechanics before discussing here...
    Noobplar
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I would highly suggest people to play a bit in medium armor if they think that this armor type is fine. All you need is basically Major Defile (which you get from the Disease enchantment, you can even run that with infused which is extremely powerful this patch) and something to deal a bit pressure (basically to break cloak in my case) and call it a day.

    I have a heavy armor stamblade too and I lost two duels in total between Morrowind patch and Horns of the Reach with a stupid berserc build (one against a magicka dk while I was in vampire stage 4 and one against a petsorc... won the other 10 fights against them tho...). Even with a crafted only heavy armor build (lol) I won against people who just smash me now when I'm in a med armor build.
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Drakkdjinn wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Drakkdjinn wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    UppGRAYxDD wrote: »
    As a Heavy armored magicka user since before the Imperial City patch, I disagree with alot of comments in here. I have stated before that light and heavy armor are both in a good place, but YES medium armor needs A SLIGHT BUFF. Just a little one, a huge buff would just set back the balance that ZoS is trying to create. A few ppl think it is the armor sets...this is incorrect, any character can use these hvy dmg sets by simply slotting weapons, 2 pieces on the body, and one accessory. I also disagree with any notion that the dodgeroll/shuffle combo is not an effective defensive measure. Mobility is the strength of medium armor and any good player knows this. The main problem I see is that most players dont want to think about positioning or plan attacks. They just roll in expecting to win and when things dont go their way they come to the forums and QQ and whine to the devs for a nerf. What ever happened to learning from failure? Theory crafting to overcome obstacles that you encounter? I understand being frustrated by getting whipped by another player constantly in duels or open world pvp, but dont just write it off as "they are using OP sets and need to get nerfed". Overcome the obstacles, improve your gameplay, and reap the rewards when you beat these so-called OP individuals through the power of thought and execution...

    Not every character can use heavy sets. Its not just about using them just for the sake of using them.
    Heavy armor comes in healthy jewellery meaning u have to give up ur main resources to run a heavy set. And its not only about finding a way to use heavy sets. Heavy sets such as fury and 7th legion require to constantly getting hit. They dont synergize with medium armor. Light/medium find limited use of heavy sets in general. But in heavy you can use those sets effectively and then just grab a light/medium sustain/dmg set to complete the build.

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Crafted+Sets

    Last time i checked fury and 7th legion are not craftable and they are both better than hundings rage.

    LoL...just LoL.

    Even if that were true, 7th and fury come in jewelry. 3 Piece Jewelry + 1h/shield or DW; voila you're wearing a "heavy" set with no pieces of heavy equipped. You're welcome.

    So you basically didnt read a single thing of what i said and you just decided to post and spread your BS for whatever reason. Ok then, lets go again.

    Its not "even if that were true". It is true. Hundings give you less than half of the wpn dmg fury will give you. 7th legion also gives you almost double the wpn dmg hundings give you and legion also has a healing attached to the 5 piece. Stop arguing facts. They make you look stupid.

    And if you have actually read what i said then you wouldnt post ur stupid argument about wearing fury/legion in medium. Its not about using them just for the sake of using them. Putting on a heavy set in medium means giving up 3k+ stamina so there is no point in using it in the first place. And thats not even the biggest problem. The problem is that they dont synergize with medium armor. Those are two sets based on you constantly getting hit. Medium armor is based on you not getting hit. There is no synergy between them.

    So yeah, please tell me again how is using fury in heavy armor the same as using fury in medium armor.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Destruent wrote: »
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    so ember deals less than you think. oh skoria is prpccing dks have aoe skills that makes me cloak useless so heavy armor is op and medium sucks. Best argument here.

    Im not choosing any side but comments are so biased.

    People saying 2k weapon damage + medium equaks to wrath + major brutality. yea how about adding major brutality to both equations?
    DDuke wrote: »
    Yes, agreed. Wrath passive is quite weak, unless you're comparing it to some potato stam build with less than 2000 unbuffed weapon damage.

    Around 2000 is the breaking point where Agility starts outperforming Wrath.
    2000+12%(Agility)=240 weapon damage
    200(Wrath)+20% (Major Brutality)=240

    He did add major brutality. For medium armor it wouldn't make any difference, bc agility and major/minor brutality are additive, so they don't effect each other.
    Honghua wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Oh, go ahead - just ignore all the math done previously on this thread and post your own bogus numbers. Wonderful.

    Constitution 189 magicka & stamina regeneration, what?

    it regains 108 magicka and stamina each piece every 4 seconds, 108 x7 / 4 = 189. Eot.

    regeneration ticks every 2 seconds, so it's 108 per piece * 7 =756 every 4 seconds; 756/2 =378 every 2 seconds and therefore comparable to regeneration.

    people should really learn base-game mechanics before discussing here...

    Indeed. But that doesn't change the facts that:

    A ) 2k base weapon dmg is a very low threshold
    B ) Wrath and Constitution demand you to get hit constantly

    Plus: If you take 378 "regen" from 7 heavy Constitution als breaking point.. 28% more regen from 7 medium is also 378 regen at 1350 stam regen. Not that high either.

    Therefore Agility will always outperform wrath, or will you tell me that some stamina PvP will ever sit under 2K weapon dmg?
    Also, like someone wrote before, if something is better under specific circumstances, but worse in others - or to say it with other words: if one thing has a requierement to be activated, and something else does not - does that make it automatically OP?
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on August 23, 2017 10:26AM
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    If "getting hit" is a special circumstance in PvP i don't know what to say...even in battlegrounds i get constantly hit and can survive some time with 5 light and no damage-shield...
    I can't imagine fighting in cyro without getting hit tbh...

    regarding stamregen: 1350 BASE-regen equals ~2.3k stamreg with 7 medium, 10% from CP and minor/major stamreg-buff...don't think that's extremely low...with redguard passive you get to 2.4k, with bosmer even higher iirc.
    Edited by Destruent on August 23, 2017 10:47AM
    Noobplar
  • Cyrediath
    Cyrediath
    ✭✭✭
    I cant believe how people claim heavy is op then bragging about 7th legion and fury. its a set. it wprl well with heavy but heavy armor is not a problem. i like ethernal hunt set. i cant roll dodge much in heavy. so medium is op? that is non sense.

    I just want to asl something to people believe that heavy has better sustain + damage + defence than medium. please answer.

    why no one invites heavy armor dds to their trial raids or even vet dungeons?
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    I cant believe how people claim heavy is op then bragging about 7th legion and fury. its a set. it wprl well with heavy but heavy armor is not a problem. i like ethernal hunt set. i cant roll dodge much in heavy. so medium is op? that is non sense.

    I just want to asl something to people believe that heavy has better sustain + damage + defence than medium. please answer.

    why no one invites heavy armor dds to their trial raids or even vet dungeons?

    bc you f****ing want crit and more or less low survivability + supportsets for pve...that's the reason medium/light is better for dps there...
    You know, there's a difference between pve and pvp...
    Noobplar
  • Cyrediath
    Cyrediath
    ✭✭✭
    Destruent wrote: »
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    I cant believe how people claim heavy is op then bragging about 7th legion and fury. its a set. it wprl well with heavy but heavy armor is not a problem. i like ethernal hunt set. i cant roll dodge much in heavy. so medium is op? that is non sense.

    I just want to asl something to people believe that heavy has better sustain + damage + defence than medium. please answer.

    why no one invites heavy armor dds to their trial raids or even vet dungeons?

    bc you f****ing want crit and more or less low survivability + supportsets for pve...that's the reason medium/light is better for dps there...
    You know, there's a difference between pve and pvp...

    now medium has more crit, more or less survivability + synergy huh? what about few comments back when people claiming heavy is superior to medium because has more superior weapon damage and superior survivability?
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    I cant believe how people claim heavy is op then bragging about 7th legion and fury. its a set. it wprl well with heavy but heavy armor is not a problem. i like ethernal hunt set. i cant roll dodge much in heavy. so medium is op? that is non sense.

    I just want to asl something to people believe that heavy has better sustain + damage + defence than medium. please answer.

    why no one invites heavy armor dds to their trial raids or even vet dungeons?

    bc you f****ing want crit and more or less low survivability + supportsets for pve...that's the reason medium/light is better for dps there...
    You know, there's a difference between pve and pvp...

    now medium has more crit, more or less survivability + synergy huh? what about few comments back when people claiming heavy is superior to medium because has more superior weapon damage and superior survivability?

    bc weapon damage is only one part of your stats defining damage. You need wep-dmg, stamina, crit, crit-dmg, penetration for best possible DPS in PvE...crit and critdmg don't matter that much in pvp bc of impen and no warhorns used constantly.

    Stam: same for heavy/medium
    wep-dmg: higher for medium from passive, but heavy gets better with vertain sets
    crit: medium >heavy all day
    critdmg: same for heavy/medium
    edit: pen: same for heavy/medium but medium has sets for increased penetration (but those don't really work constantly in pvp)
    You got it?
    Edited by Destruent on August 23, 2017 11:30AM
    Noobplar
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    Oh let me tel you something heavy magdks udually have around 1.5-1.7k spell damage
    DDuke wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    Lots of insights in this thread, I hope dev eyes find it. Heavy armor has a certain stigma about it, but there also seems to be a lot of general agreement that the skill line passives are actually in a very respectable place and seem to be somewhat balanced with light armor passives.

    I really hope medium gets the buff it deserves (without buffing stamblades ffs). The obvious choice is to replace Improved Sneak but it would be muy bueno if they also completely replaced passive dodge with a parry mechanic.

    I also hope Healing Ward size scaling gets nerfed a bit and resto/snb ultimate costs get increased, but that's not super relevant here.

    Trust me, medium armor being garbage affects stamblades just as well (maybe not as much as the other classes, but it's still garbage). You deal a ton of damage as stamblade, but in medium armor you're just free AP to anyone with undodgeable skills and ways to counter cloak.

    Today I learned that Burning Embers alone deals 200 more damage than my Vigor heals (with 7 impen, 4,9k weapon dmg & 34k stamina). Try surviving that when it procs 3k Skorias, ignores your dodge roll & the magicka DK spams Volatile Armor whenever you try to cloak, and any burst you might have gets mitigated by heavy armor+block.

    Experiences like that just make me wonder why am I still playing this game.

    so ember deals less than you think. oh skoria is prpccing dks have aoe skills that makes me cloak useless so heavy armor is op and medium sucks. Best argument here.

    Im not choosing any side but comments are so biased.

    No they're not, and it should be fairly simple.

    In a situation like that where most dmg (DoTs & Skorias etc) go through dodge roll and your cloak is broken every time, a person in medium armor dies (because you can't outheal and you can't avoid any damage).

    A person in heavy armor doesn't die (because you heal for more & mitigate more). It's atleast a 30% difference in damage taken/second (see my math on previous page) between a Fury+Legion build & the highest damage/healing medium setup you can build.

    Cyrediath wrote: »
    People saying 2k weapon damage + medium equaks to wrath + major brutality. yea how about adding major brutality to both equations?

    Its just so obvious some medium armor users here trying to manipulate people. Let me tell you something. Medium armor always will have more weapon damage + sustain co pared to heavy no matter what.

    Categorically not true.

    Fully buffed, a 5/1/1 medium build in Sheer Venom+Hunding's+Selene gets 34 380 stamina & 4867 weapon damage (+398 weapon damage from Agility here btw) -
    Fully buffed, a 5/1/1 heavy build in Fury+Legion+Selene gets 30 737 stamina & 5566 weapon damage

    1k stamina/100 weapon dmg=1.2%~ dmg

    3643 stamina more with medium armor setup, so that's around 4,3% dmg
    699 weapon damage more with heavy armor setup, so that's around 8,4% more dmg

    ...well well, what do you know, heavy armor gets more damage.

    Well, it must come at a great cost of sustain, right?

    Not really. To get 4,9k weapon damage we obviously aren't running much regen in medium armor.

    Medium setup: 1641 buffed stam regen
    Heavy setup: 1341 buffed stam regen

    So you get 300 more stam regen in medium, but heavy gets +270 from Constitution - sustain remains more or less the same, unless you consider a scenario where you're spamming stam skills every weave and never cast magicka skills or heavy attack a realistic one. In those cases medium would likely get better sustain thanks to the cost reduction.

    Except that you don't have to spam dodge roll just to have a slim chance of staying alive (and probably still dying to undodgeable shite) in heavy armor, so in fact your sustain is likely to be far, far better in heavy armor.
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    if you wear medium armor and try to play it like heavy you are doing it wrong. you will dodge roll and use evasion. you are trying to tank the incoming damage or block/heal like heavy and you fail that well its your problem. they have different play styles. if you want to tank and block wear heavy. if you are wearing medium get used to dodge rolling, timing your stuns and bursts.

    Yes, you will "dodge roll and use evasion" - and then you'll die to undodgeable shite (majority of the skills in the game).

    I guess you don't play medium, otherwise you wouldn't be making *** comments like that to someone who does.

    "Timing your stuns and bursts" does jack *** when you're almost dead to undodgeable shite before you even get your Incap up and your opponent is permablocking & mitigating any burst you have.
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    if you are having hard time against heavy armor its because they time their bursts when they have their buffs up. Wepon damage sets in heavy usually requires for yoh to take damage. if you are playing against a sorcerer that using curse + frag or nb using concealed weapon etc you wont be sitting at 200 weapon damage all the time trust me.

    Are you telling me there's a sorcerer who doesn't run any pets, doesn't light/heavy attack you and doesn't have any kind of DoT proc whatsoever? If so, you're likely going to win that fight anyway as a heavy armor user.

    Pretty much every magicka NB runs Crippling Grasp, so that point is moot.
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    to sum up; if you want to have more mobility, run faster, sneak, dodge roll etc use medium armor. if you like blocking, taking damage and heal through it use heavy armor. if you want to play in this style but wearing medium armor you are doing it wrong.

    To sum it up: if you want to be a completely useless roleplayer, wear medium. If you want to compete and have a chance of staying alive, wear heavy.

    I've been wearing medium since 2014 and it has never been as useless garbage as it is right now.
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    and just advice, you can use incap, disease damage etc to reduce the healing of your oppenent and its super effective. you can reduce the resists of heavy armor by having more penetration or with debuffs.

    Oh really? I didn't know I could reduce my opponents healing and armor. /s

    What is the relevance of this comment? A medium armor user's armor/healing can get reduced just as well.
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    but you cant do anything againts sustain, roll dodge cost reduction etc of medium (except poisons)

    Have you been reading anything that's been written? Anything at all?

    90% of skills in the game are undodgeable. If you think you can't do anything against medium armor users, you must be really *** at this game. That cost reduction does jack *** when you're dying despite any skill on your bar you might be able to spam.

    And using poisons against a medium armor user is a really, really bad idea - poisons are one of the very few things you can avoid by dodging (as they're procced by light/heavy attacks & weapon skills, which are mostly dodgeable). You'll have maybe 10% uptime on poisons vs a medium armor user.

    In fact, using poisons at all is a really, really bad idea. They suck. Just get infused weapon+enchant of your choice.
    Edited by DDuke on August 23, 2017 12:11PM
  • Honghua
    Honghua
    ✭✭✭
    Destruent wrote: »


    bc weapon damage is only one part of your stats defining damage. You need wep-dmg, stamina, crit, crit-dmg, penetration for best possible DPS in PvE...crit and critdmg don't matter that much in pvp bc of impen and no warhorns used constantly.

    Stam: same for heavy/medium
    wep-dmg: higher for medium from passive, but heavy gets better with vertain sets
    crit: medium >heavy all day
    critdmg: same for heavy/medium
    edit: pen: same for heavy/medium but medium has sets for increased penetration (but those don't really work constantly in pvp)
    You got it?

    You still have a sources of critical damage bonuses to counter impenetrable.
    Still crit is a crit, even if its 150% of original damage value, heavy armor focus on damage doesnt have it.
    Twice fanged serpent work in pvp and is more reliable than weapon damage stacking set in heavy armor.
    Maces reduce the target armor by 20%, its the best counter against heavy armors in pvp, the same weapon doesnt work the same on the heavy armor user hands against medium, since the bonus damage is much smaller.
    Edited by Honghua on August 23, 2017 12:19PM
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Honghua wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »


    bc weapon damage is only one part of your stats defining damage. You need wep-dmg, stamina, crit, crit-dmg, penetration for best possible DPS in PvE...crit and critdmg don't matter that much in pvp bc of impen and no warhorns used constantly.

    Stam: same for heavy/medium
    wep-dmg: higher for medium from passive, but heavy gets better with vertain sets
    crit: medium >heavy all day
    critdmg: same for heavy/medium
    edit: pen: same for heavy/medium but medium has sets for increased penetration (but those don't really work constantly in pvp)
    You got it?

    You still have a sources of critical damage bonuses to counter impenetrable.
    Still crit is a crit, even if its 150% of original damage value, heavy armor focus on damage doesnt have it.
    Twice fanged serpent work in pvp and is more reliable than weapon damage stacking set in heavy armor.
    Maces reduce the target armor by 20%, its the best counter against heavy armors in pvp, the same weapon doesnt work the same on the heavy armor user hands against medium, since the bonus damage is much smaller.

    I'm more talking about sunderflame, night mothers gaze and alkosh which aren't used that often in pvp and make TFS useless in PvE-Raids...
    Noobplar
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Honghua wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »


    bc weapon damage is only one part of your stats defining damage. You need wep-dmg, stamina, crit, crit-dmg, penetration for best possible DPS in PvE...crit and critdmg don't matter that much in pvp bc of impen and no warhorns used constantly.

    Stam: same for heavy/medium
    wep-dmg: higher for medium from passive, but heavy gets better with vertain sets
    crit: medium >heavy all day
    critdmg: same for heavy/medium
    edit: pen: same for heavy/medium but medium has sets for increased penetration (but those don't really work constantly in pvp)
    You got it?

    You still have a sources of critical damage bonuses to counter impenetrable.
    Still crit is a crit, even if its 150% of original damage value, heavy armor focus on damage doesnt have it.
    Twice fanged serpent work in pvp and is more reliable than weapon damage stacking set in heavy armor.
    Maces reduce the target armor by 20%, its the best counter against heavy armors in pvp, the same weapon doesnt work the same on the heavy armor user hands against medium, since the bonus damage is much smaller.

    So you'd be useless against anyone with a damage shield is what you're saying?


    Also, optimal CP allocation and 7 impen means 44% crit damage reduction.

    Most NB/Templar (they get +10% from passives) builds get 70-80% crit damage, meaning crits deal between 26%-36% extra damage (around 40-50%~ of time)

    For other classes, the crit damage is between 60-70% so 16-26% extra damage.

    Very far from 50%.
  • Cyrediath
    Cyrediath
    ✭✭✭
    So lets nerf heavy so only pve tanks will wear it right?

    You still dont understand this armor types are situational. heavy meant to be tanky + dangerous with some sets while taking damage. and medium is for high crit, damage, some buffs to mobility etc

    so if you want to play ganky and mobile play medium.

    if you want to be tanky like warrior wear heavy.

    if you want to play tanky and want to block, take some damage you are doing it wrong wearing medium. there is nothing op with heavy.

    if you say fury + 7th legion etc is op, i said yes like 3 times already they are giving good amount of damage and better if not best weapon damage sets and i wouldnt mind if they get slight nerf that would be on point.

    but if you reduce constitituon, resistances or healing erc that will kill heavy armor and most will effect magicka heavies.

    imo medium need slight buff on resistances. if light sits on 10k and heavy around 20k (not exact numbers but yea) medium should sit around 15k resistances. other than that all other buffs are fine for medium.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    So lets nerf heavy so only pve tanks will wear it right?

    You still dont understand this armor types are situational. heavy meant to be tanky + dangerous with some sets while taking damage. and medium is for high crit, damage, some buffs to mobility etc

    so if you want to play ganky and mobile play medium.

    if you want to be tanky like warrior wear heavy.

    if you want to play tanky and want to block, take some damage you are doing it wrong wearing medium. there is nothing op with heavy.

    if you say fury + 7th legion etc is op, i said yes like 3 times already they are giving good amount of damage and better if not best weapon damage sets and i wouldnt mind if they get slight nerf that would be on point.

    but if you reduce constitituon, resistances or healing erc that will kill heavy armor and most will effect magicka heavies.

    imo medium need slight buff on resistances. if light sits on 10k and heavy around 20k (not exact numbers but yea) medium should sit around 15k resistances. other than that all other buffs are fine for medium.

    No, I don't want to be tanky like heavy - but I'd like my dodge roll to actually do something and I'd like that "mobility" to actually matter. Who cares if you're good at running away/kiting, when you're dead to undodgeable shite before you get 10m away from your opponent(s)?


    And no, I absolutely do not want to see medium armor becoming "heavy armor lite" by simply giving them more armor. You're not supposed to be tanky, you're supposed to be evasive.

    What medium needs is something like Major Vitality for X seconds after/during dodge roll.


    Hell, for all I care they can keep heavy armor as it is - but medium needs massive buffs to be competitive (or even fun to play) in PvP.
  • olsborg
    olsborg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    So lets nerf heavy so only pve tanks will wear it right?

    You still dont understand this armor types are situational. heavy meant to be tanky + dangerous with some sets while taking damage. and medium is for high crit, damage, some buffs to mobility etc

    so if you want to play ganky and mobile play medium.

    if you want to be tanky like warrior wear heavy.

    if you want to play tanky and want to block, take some damage you are doing it wrong wearing medium. there is nothing op with heavy.

    if you say fury + 7th legion etc is op, i said yes like 3 times already they are giving good amount of damage and better if not best weapon damage sets and i wouldnt mind if they get slight nerf that would be on point.

    but if you reduce constitituon, resistances or healing erc that will kill heavy armor and most will effect magicka heavies.

    imo medium need slight buff on resistances. if light sits on 10k and heavy around 20k (not exact numbers but yea) medium should sit around 15k resistances. other than that all other buffs are fine for medium.

    No, I don't want to be tanky like heavy - but I'd like my dodge roll to actually do something and I'd like that "mobility" to actually matter. Who cares if you're good at running away/kiting, when you're dead to undodgeable shite before you get 10m away from your opponent(s)?


    And no, I absolutely do not want to see medium armor becoming "heavy armor lite" by simply giving them more armor. You're not supposed to be tanky, you're supposed to be evasive.

    What medium needs is something like Major Vitality for X seconds after/during dodge roll.


    Hell, for all I care they can keep heavy armor as it is - but medium needs massive buffs to be competitive (or even fun to play) in PvP.

    I had a monster set idea the other day:

    (1pc) Stamregen
    (2pc) When you initiate dodgeroll you gain minor vitality and minor protection for 2 seconds.

    Now something similar could be implemented into medium armor passives, who knows.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    I cant believe how people claim heavy is op then bragging about 7th legion and fury. its a set. it wprl well with heavy but heavy armor is not a problem. i like ethernal hunt set. i cant roll dodge much in heavy. so medium is op? that is non sense.

    I just want to asl something to people believe that heavy has better sustain + damage + defence than medium. please answer.

    why no one invites heavy armor dds to their trial raids or even vet dungeons?

    Because medium has more potential dmg than heavy. No one is arguing that. But PVP isnt the same. You are not just building for dmg in PVP and when you combine everything together then heavy can achieve about the same dmg as medium. Your perspective in the subject of dmg is very naive.

    And yes heavy armor passives may be somewhat balanced but when combined everything together (mechanics, sets etc) it does give heavy armor the edge. Armor abilities must absolutely be restricted to their respective armor for starters and then take it from there.
    Edited by pieratsos on August 23, 2017 1:34PM
  • Cyrediath
    Cyrediath
    ✭✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    I cant believe how people claim heavy is op then bragging about 7th legion and fury. its a set. it wprl well with heavy but heavy armor is not a problem. i like ethernal hunt set. i cant roll dodge much in heavy. so medium is op? that is non sense.

    I just want to asl something to people believe that heavy has better sustain + damage + defence than medium. please answer.

    why no one invites heavy armor dds to their trial raids or even vet dungeons?

    Because medium has more potential dmg than heavy. No one is arguing that. But PVP isnt the same. You are not just building for dmg in PVP and when you combine everything together then heavy can achieve about the same dmg as medium. Your perspective in the subject of dmg is very naive.

    And yes heavy armor passives may be somewhat balanced but when combined everything together (mechanics, sets etc) it does give heavy armor the edge. Armor abilities must absolutely be restricted to their respective armor for starters and then take it from there.

    I dont mind if they restrict armor skills. People clearly said heavy armor needs nerf then talked about particular sets and skills. I have my heavy magdk (as well as light sorc medium nb heavy nb heavydk stam etc) but i love it most but i dont use any of the sets people talking about (because im magicka) . light armor dks hitting me like a truck also i got hit from stamnb medium armor assasination scourge (assassins will) 13k in a duel while having 26k phy. resist. and that guy was kiting me and going invisible and yea he doesnt come out of stealth just because i used ember earlier. he burst me down with fear incap scourge while he just healed through all of my damage and as you know magdk heavy cant burst as other characters. i dont think that guy would be able to kill me if he was wearing heavy because he would loose his weapon damage stack when he runs away with invisibility. he choosed to be bursty by wearing medium.

    if zos nerfs heavy armor just because 7th legion or fury etc i dont think i will enjoy playing my magdk heavy anymore. sustain is barely enough with 1.4k regen + desert rose. +i personally think heavy armor passives are not op. i will say it again just few weapon damage sets works well. may be considered op idk never tested them.

    #leaveheavymagdkalone #enoughnerfsalready
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    As much as I enjoyed this thread, mostly because it was very insightful on math, I think it's time to stop the bickering and come up with solutions.

    Let's gather what was brought up:

    A ) tone down some heavy hitting HA sets like 7th legion, Ravager, Fury a little bit, but defintely not into uselessness. Leave the passives alone.

    B ) increasing viability of MA through:
    - reducing stuff that is unnecessary undodgeable
    - increase viability of dodge role for MA builds further by granting a short healing bonus window (maybe tie it to 5p MA passive)
    - buffing bonus to stamina regen so it's threshold to compete with HA constitution is lower

    C ) giving armor skills a restriction of minimum worn armor pieces of the respective weight
    - many said 5p restriction, although I find it a bit drastic as it would hurt build variability and PvE Tava Tanks, I vote for 2 pieces
    - rebalance armor skills -> Immovable + morphs isn't viable at the moment

    Anything I overlooked that wasn't a sledgehammer approach?



    Edit:

    DDuke wrote: »
    Fully buffed, a 5/1/1 heavy build in Fury+Legion+Selene gets 30 737 stamina & 5566 weapon damage


    Heavy setup: 1341 buffed stam regen


    Can I ask how one gains 5.5k with Fury + 7th Legion? Best I can do is 5.3 with all dmg glyphs on an sSorc. Although the difference is "marginal", I seem to overlook something.
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on August 23, 2017 4:51PM
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Yes

    Fight Stamina beauties, fight amongst yourselves...

    Ignore my Light Armor permablocking Damage dealing monstrosity...

    Nerf heavy now that I've switched to light, also

    Sorcs are OP right? >:)
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Cyrediath wrote: »
    I cant believe how people claim heavy is op then bragging about 7th legion and fury. its a set. it wprl well with heavy but heavy armor is not a problem. i like ethernal hunt set. i cant roll dodge much in heavy. so medium is op? that is non sense.

    I just want to asl something to people believe that heavy has better sustain + damage + defence than medium. please answer.

    why no one invites heavy armor dds to their trial raids or even vet dungeons?

    Because medium has more potential dmg than heavy. No one is arguing that. But PVP isnt the same. You are not just building for dmg in PVP and when you combine everything together then heavy can achieve about the same dmg as medium. Your perspective in the subject of dmg is very naive.

    And yes heavy armor passives may be somewhat balanced but when combined everything together (mechanics, sets etc) it does give heavy armor the edge. Armor abilities must absolutely be restricted to their respective armor for starters and then take it from there.

    I dont mind if they restrict armor skills. People clearly said heavy armor needs nerf then talked about particular sets and skills. I have my heavy magdk (as well as light sorc medium nb heavy nb heavydk stam etc) but i love it most but i dont use any of the sets people talking about (because im magicka) . light armor dks hitting me like a truck also i got hit from stamnb medium armor assasination scourge (assassins will) 13k in a duel while having 26k phy. resist. and that guy was kiting me and going invisible and yea he doesnt come out of stealth just because i used ember earlier. he burst me down with fear incap scourge while he just healed through all of my damage and as you know magdk heavy cant burst as other characters. i dont think that guy would be able to kill me if he was wearing heavy because he would loose his weapon damage stack when he runs away with invisibility. he choosed to be bursty by wearing medium.

    if zos nerfs heavy armor just because 7th legion or fury etc i dont think i will enjoy playing my magdk heavy anymore. sustain is barely enough with 1.4k regen + desert rose. +i personally think heavy armor passives are not op. i will say it again just few weapon damage sets works well. may be considered op idk never tested them.

    #leaveheavymagdkalone #enoughnerfsalready

    Sorry, but if you get hit by not only Incap, but also Assassin's Will after a Fear and you don't block or dodge either of them, that's entirely - and I hate saying this - L2P issue.

    Not only do you have 1,3 seconds to break free & dodge roll or block after the fear to avoid Incap, but you've also got another 0,9s+travel time to avoid getting hit by Assassin's Will.

    And if you let a stamblade cloak against you as a magicka DK, that's a major misplay as well (you can easily make cloaking impossible with Volatile Armor).

    Also, if that stamblade was just "healing through all your damage" that means he was either running S&B/Heavy Armor, or you're just a low damage build yourself. A medium armor stamblade cannot even heal through DK DoTs (especially if there's Skoria), let alone "all damage" - not even with the highest damage/healing setup (with 7 impen).
    DDuke wrote: »
    Fully buffed, a 5/1/1 heavy build in Fury+Legion+Selene gets 30 737 stamina & 5566 weapon damage


    Heavy setup: 1341 buffed stam regen


    Can I ask how one gains 5.5k with Fury + 7th Legion? Best I can do is 5.3 with all dmg glyphs on an sSorc. Although the difference is "marginal", I seem to overlook something.

    Infused Weapon Damage glyph (pref. off bar), Offensive Scroll Buff, Continuous Assault

    It's kind of crazy actually what kind of numbers are possible, I was checking the absolute maximum points of weapon damage and it actually turns out that someone wearing 5x Fury 5x Alchemist with above mentioned buffs (and Nirnhoned weapon) and 3 Fighters Guild skills on bar can reach up to 7934 weapon damage (8k+ as stamplar or NB when sneaking/cloaked).

    I imagine more would be possible with 2x Kena & Nirnhoned vMA 2H instead of Agility, but you'd have to run Healthy jewelry :p
    Edited by DDuke on August 23, 2017 6:16PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Yes

    Fight Stamina beauties, fight amongst yourselves...

    Ignore my Light Armor permablocking Damage dealing monstrosity...

    Nerf heavy now that I've switched to light, also

    Sorcs are OP right? >:)

    In all honesty, light armor is fine in the current meta. The Amberplasm+Necropotence nerfs did their job and fighting against them 1v1 in medium armor feels pretty close to balanced at the moment, atleast in a high damage setup with Selene. Undodgeable shite from them when you're trying to 1vX is still an issue though.

    I'm glad you're enjoying your sorc and I'm even more glad I can actually fight against them in this patch (atleast in 1v1) as a medium armor user. Good thing people called out some problems (Necro/Amber) in the previous PTS, huh?
    Edited by DDuke on August 23, 2017 6:20PM
Sign In or Register to comment.