[PUG Life] Is cp300 the new cp160?

VinyParsley2016

Yes

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Magdalina

Other

To all the people talking about how high cp=better players...(high) cp mean only 2 things:

1)higher ceiling. It's unarguable that with 600 cp it is possible to achieve higher stats/dps/hps numbers than with 300 cp, let alone 100 cp. However, several things to keep in mind:
1a)the difference is not THAT major. Extra 300-500 cp won't magically add 20k dps to you, don't even hope
1b)it's the ceiling. What can be achieved - but what often is not because when people wear crap gear, no food and do light attack spam, it's absolutely irrelevant if they have 100 or 800 cp, they'll still suck
1c)I can't think of a single dungeon, short of maaaaybe ROM hm, that cannot be done with stats achieveable at 100 cp. The question is having the right skills/sets and ability to follow mechanics

2)more time played. A 600 cp always has more time sunk in the game(although, given Skyreach...but let's give it the benefit of doubt). And...that's all it means. It does not equate skill. You can absolutely hit cp cap just doing open world questing and nothing wrong with it - but it teaches you squat. You can stand in red all you like, never block, ignore monster cues, forget how to breakfree and dodge and still be fine. And THIS is the knowledge you'll have when you finally get into a vet dungeon.

The good 600 cp players? They're not good because they have 600 cp. They're good because either they're naturally competitive/inquisitive and have looked stuff up and trained themselves or they have previously stumbled into a vet dungeon, got rekt and then decided to improve themselves. If you think the lowbie 100 cp you kick is gonna get magically better by grinding up another 500 cp you're wrong. You scare them out of vet dungeons til 600 cp and we'll just have another absolutely clueless 600 cp because there is no other learning curve currently. It sucks if you don't really wanna be the teacher(and sucks more when they refuse to be the student) but it's not these players' fault. Give them a chance.

FakeFox

Other

Since you can farm CP so easy and we have so many EXP boosts lately CP is pretty much worthless. There are more then enough CP 660+ players with no clue what they are doing. But there are also very competent low CP players, mostly those that have actually played the game to that CP level instead of mindlessly grinding CP.

FakeFox

Other

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

I'm not discriminating, if I have a group and notice somebody (high CP) using 2H or spamming bow light attacks and I've mentioned it but they take no notice; I will be forced to vote them out. It's not useful for anybody and it just wastes time.

My problem is I have limited time on this game now which is why I aim to do things as fast as possible.

Twohander can be a good weapon for PvE, just saying.^^

Ratzkifal

Yes

A healer with good equipment can be good starting on 160CP. It's a bit more difficult for dps. I would never run any veteran DLC dungeon with people below 350CP because I am still traumatized from 4 hours vWGT which in the end we didn't even get past the planar inhibitor.

AdicusDio

Yes

SoLooney wrote: »

............and some horrible 500 plus cp players spamming light and heavy attacks.

You do realize heavy attacks restore resources when depleted, RIGHT? And light attacks are better than no attacks. Light attacks with bow for example can buff after 5 light attacks, for 5 seconds. Also, 2-6k light attacks are better than NO attacks while waiting on regen to occur. FWIW, Haevy attack DW can get 6-10k+ damage.

Just reminded of a time a tank was yelling at me for spamming a heavy snipe.... I was like "I'm doing 22k per hit and can't stand next to that boss"...

AdicusDio

Yes

Also, a DW skill will pop after 5 light/heavy attacks with a spectral bow, that can crit in the 20-30k range.

AdicusDio

Yes

I'm saying yes by what I've seen so far. Between pen reduction, stam/magic sustain, etc., people at lower cp are getting hit harder (literally). Healers at lower cp aren't able to cover constant 15k+ instant health drops. Lower cp dps are NOT pulling their weight (no fault on their end). etc. etc.

RizzlyBear

Yes

CP160 equals to CP300, if you don't know the basics at CP160 you wouldn't know them at CP300.

At Cp400 above you start getting enough insults and you start learning the basics of: how to deal damage, what means to be a tank, what means to be a healer.

From CP500 above you start copying alcast builds and still deal 1/4 of his dps

At CP600 you finally made your own build, rotation, learnt the dungeons, learnt the trials and finally are not a pain to other players in group content

ArchMikem wrote: »

or taking a 2Handed as a DPS into a Vet Dungeon

Again with this? Maybe you need to use 2H yourself before saying that.

AdicusDio

Yes

FWIW, I went through CoAII last night on vet with a random pug group. We actually did until the very last boss. Think one was 300, 500, and I forget the other. I'm maxed. Tried HM, wasn't happening with that group. Final boss couldn't be burned enough., so threw in the towel. Was a random group, so that happens. My bow and main hand dagger had about a 1/16th of a charge left on them.... and yes they were full entering there. That should give you an idea of these supposed "balancing" adjustments' impact on how much more you have to pick up the slack. Pre-patch, I'd probably have been down an 1/8th, not have a 1/16th of a charge left. While we skipped none of the fights (start to finish), there are going to be vet dungeons lower cp are going to REALLY struggle with completeing.

WhoSlappedThePie

Yes

Amen

Danksta

Stfu, OP

AdicusDio wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

............and some horrible 500 plus cp players spamming light and heavy attacks.

You do realize heavy attacks restore resources when depleted, RIGHT? And light attacks are better than no attacks. Light attacks with bow for example can buff after 5 light attacks, for 5 seconds. Also, 2-6k light attacks are better than NO attacks while waiting on regen to occur. FWIW, Haevy attack DW can get 6-10k+ damage.

Just reminded of a time a tank was yelling at me for spamming a heavy snipe.... I was like "I'm doing 22k per hit and can't stand next to that boss"...

But if you're spamming light/heavy attacks you wouldn't have depleted your resources, in fact they'd be completely full because light and heavy attacks don't cost magicka/stamina. Also if you're spamming light attacks to proc the Hawkeye passive you're doing it wrong.

Huyen

No

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

I can't believe what I'm reading haha.

I usually PUG with 630 to complete dungeons in a quicker time, it's just my preference, why would I want to carry lower CPs through vet dungeons when I'm trying to do it fast.

I'll usually have a friend or 2 in the group and get a random 630 and I can assure you the ones I've played with tend to deal a lot more damage than I've seen on anything lower than 300.

I don't think I've ever joined a group (when I actually bother to go through with it) with a CP -300 where the boss fight didn't take 5 minutes+ whereas when I'm with 630 most bosses go down in 1~ minute. Apart from some of the "harder" dungeons of course.

You can just tell, when you spam guild/zone chat and you have a pre-dungeon convo with someone you can kind of tell by certain things whether they will be good. I may even ask what damage they have if we're trying a mazz no-death run or something like that and look at their skilllset.

I didn't get to 630 to play with people that haven't even got a correct set together, I've tried many times to disprove this idea by grouping with people of lower CP's but unfortunately it has taken far too long and in some cases (if I'm healing) then they just don't have the damage to get through easy dungeons and it annoys the hell out of me.

So what you are basicly saying is that you get people that are min/maxing stuff, and play a socerer...Try helping out others for a change instead of steamrolling everything you encounter!

UrbanMonk

Yes

300+ CP x 2 NB, spamming LA from back in a pug nSO group where I personally averaging 25-30% of group DPS. Need I say more...

PlagueSD

No

They pull their weight and actually contribute to their role, I'm fine with a CP160. As stated earlier, if I see a CP300+ just spamming light attacks, they'll be vote kicked.

Juli'St

No

With 160 - like a healer, i complet WGT Vet.

Please...

LESS!

Juli'St

No

...and a detail... i play many Dgs with low CP... and we finish all. Im a damm healer

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

Ratzkifal wrote: »

A healer with good equipment can be good starting on 160CP.

I have always been good, honestly. It's not just the gear, it's the way you play your char that makes you good.

Of course, a CP10 has less points than a CP600, but high CPs does not mean that:

• You have the right equipment.
• You know the mechanics.
• You have unlocked all skills.
• You know which skills to use in a specific situation.
• You get prepared (food, potions, gear repaired, ...).
• You play actively (rather than watch and search barrels).

I have been kicked twice in my ESO experience, as a healer:

• Immediately, for being a low CP.
• After we wiped when the "tank" got one shotted.

I have cleared DLC dungeons way before being CP300, having no Legendary item equipped and certainly less experience that I have now.

Again:

• It is a game. Have fun.
• Check the first pulls. They tell you way more than CPs, including if the tank is not a tank, if you have some kid that wants to speed it up iwthout asking, if DPS is too low, ...

SixVoltCar

Stfu, OP

You sound really taint.

Kurkikohtaus

Yes

This poll was about perception. I made it open ended and without pre-amble in hopes that a good discussion would ensue, which has, interesting contributions on both sides. What spurred the poll question was this:

In zone chat, when people are announcing "LFM" for Vet Pledges, I see for the most part:

"LFM for Vet Pledges, cp630+" (now 660, after the patch)

- or -

"LFM for Vet Pledges, cp300+"

No more "160 minimum" being sought in zone chat.

Also, before the Morrowind patch, my common experience was that upon entering a vet dungeon, if there was a 160-300 cp player in there, he got the benefit of the doubt and was allowed to prove his worth before a vote-kick emerged. Nowadays, I often see a vote kick pop up immediately if there is a sub-300 player in the dungeon.

I feel the perception of the "benefit-of-the-doubt-threshold" has moved since Morrowind, so I wanted to poll the forums to see if you all feel the same way.


--- --- --- ---

@Giles.floydub17_ESO just tagging you because you commented on a lack of context to the poll question, so there it is, my secret context.

WhoSlappedThePie

Yes

After engaging with this post, I spent a few vet pledges with lower CP's and guess what... They did not go too well. It took ages, the players I was with seemed to lack DPS. There were a few times when I was suprised and actually 1 member did decent damage... other than that, they did take wayyy to long compared to when I ran with max CP friends (that I know obviously have put effort/time in to learn their classes, gather great gear etc) or just random 630...

I will still run the dungeon with any CP that joins through the finder if I need it but I definitely feel more confident running with higher CP... Just my experience.

Each to their own, I don't care what people do, I don't care if people have an issue with the way I want to play.

Betsararie

Yes

It's somewhat of a difficult question.

Can honestly say I can't remember single player I've played with under CP 250 that was in any way decent at their role (in both PvE and PvP).

There have been CP 250-300s that I've played that have been legitimately good because they either had experience with other MMOs or other games, and were able to implement some of those skills here.

However the vast majority under CP 300 are completely ineffectual, and likely aren't running any type of build at all.

It is true that CP is not a gauge of your skill because there are some god awful CP 630s (and now 660s), but, it is true that there is a higher likelihood that the player will be good the higher their CP is, and that is a fact that needs to be stated.

Feanor

Other

CP is an indicator of time spent grinding/questing/whatever gives XP. It says nothing about player skill. CP are not even needed to complete vet dungeons if you know what you're doing and are on the same page with your group members.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

CP is an indicator of time spent grinding/questing/whatever gives XP.

...or the money spent on escorting services to Skyreach farming...

sevomd69

Other

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

No, I grinded my way to 630, then I played in groups, watched videos, learnt on my own, practiced my rotation on dummies, grinding better gear, made several characters to understand further mechanics.

I actually felt a bit bad for higher level players going into dungeons at around 400CP, I didn't enter dungeons at anything below 300-400CP as I felt my damage wasn't good enough.

I'm not paying anyone back anything, I help people who help me and the experience I've had is that low level CPs ruin my dungeon runs.

As I said (which you failed to quote me on) I have tried time and again to run dungeons with "lower CP" characters and it just goes stupidly slow. They never type back. I try to help them with Mic or typing and it doesn't look like they respond. Their damage always seems ridiculously low. Their gear doesn't look right, they lack monster sets. So many reasons to list of the experience I have had personally. I try to work with it but I end up leaving the game due to people dying over and over again, not putting out enough damage and consequently dying or just plain stupid people who can't communicate.

If you consider that elitist then thats your choice. Show me a video of you rocking a relatively "hard" dungeon with cp 160-200 and I'll see whether it ties in with my experience.

i wonder why... with players with attitudes like yours...

I will run with anyone of any level on any dungeon... well maybe not vCoS Not to say that it won't be painful, but I am just paying it forward.... there were countless patient, helpful max players that helped me when I was low level, so I just feel the need to help whenever I can. If there is at least 1 other "high" CP player... usually no problem... becomes much easier if people are miked up though...

Demolitionary

I am sick of this 400+CP or GTFO elitist attitude, no one is going to learn anything if elitist kids are ruining the game experience and causing people to not want to play.

My main is around 140CP and I have only just started doing NM random dungeons, you know why? Because I was worried I would be kicked every time at a lower level. That is the attitude that goes around.

I know my class, as DD I need to use most if not all my skills at my disposal to gain good dps, while, keeping an eye out for red, mechanics ect. Been a few times where there has been the other DD leave at the start because we were low cp meaning it was just me as DD, we still got through and at a good speed, guess what, we didn't wipe at all. I know I am talking normal mode here but you see the Elitist attitudes in normal mode too.

I have been in dungeons with random players under level 50, we all worked together and learnt what we needed to do while playing, it was in Cradle of Shadows too, so yeah we wiped a couple of times as we did not know the end mechanic but we learnt from the mistakes and beat it.

Guess what, it was FUN, I work so I don't get much time to play in the evening, but I don't stress.

I play games to have fun not be a moaning whining little elitist kid thinking they are better than everyone, ohh it has to be fast or not at all, don't do random pugs then dumb %$£%.

WhoSlappedThePie

Yes

No issue with normal dungeons. That's fine. You carry on doing normal dungeons and learning the mechanics etc...

I'm specifically talking about Vet Dungeons; I'd rather have a decent group and cut down my run times rather than spent an hour constantly ressing lower CP's and taking 10 minutes+ on a boss, or wiping and starting it again... Just not my thing.

Why would I spend this unnecessary extra time on runs with people who hit like a feather when I could just run with a team of the same skill/CP thus cutting down my dungeon times and enabling me to carry on with other things. As I mentioned before, my situation is different to other people; I do not have the time to waste on these sort of things.

I have limited time and I'd rather get the vet pledges out of the way so I can carry on with other things.

Some people seem to have missed my point; if I queue with randoms and they happen to be low/lower CP then I'm not going to kick/vote kick them, I will complete the dungeon but I just prefer to complete them quicker.

Greevir

Yes

I chose yes just because I like red. Generally though, I don't care about your CP in a vet dungeon unless its under 160, then I may cringe a little. As a healer I generally judge the group based on the first couple trash pulls. If the tank is taking a lot of damage on trash, or not even attempting to taunt mobs or if the group is taking a long time to burn them down, I tend to bail.

jlboozer

Stfu, OP

If you're that worried about other players then you're probably the one that needs a carry....change your name to Jansport.

TequilaFire

So no bow light/heavy attacks or no 2 handed use.
What you guys are saying is be a sorc or magic build or gtfo.