PC/NA Vivec

Kilandros

zyk wrote: »

@Satiar You're right, I shouldn't dis VE like that. Or any of the guilds I might call out in zone chat when I feel there's a competitive imbalance. I largely respect our opponents, including VE. I don't think my POV is as invalid as you say, but this isn't about VE or me.

On the other hand, you've been part of an ESO organization for so long, perhaps you forget what it's like to be on the other side, if you ever knew at all. Maybe back in 1.3 when AD was still dominant and you played solo and in small groups?

It's been very frustrating for many AD at all levels to deal with the competitive imbalance that exists. We still have some great guilds and many awesome and experienced players. I'm not dissing our guilds or players either. But I think it's widely accepted that AD has the greatest percentage of random casuals. I think this has been true for a long time and a greater issue now than ever.

Again, I'm not just talking about prominent guilds. I am talking about guilds and groups of all sizes.

My OP was a kneejerk reaction to another tough night for the faction, and though I didn't intend to post, I think it needed to be said for the good of the game. The best fights and map play come from competitive parity. Laydown wins should be boring to any truly competitive player. AD needs an infusion of experienced players to replace all those we've lost.

Is AD trying to train new players though? It's not really up to EP and DC to reroll if the good AD guilds don't want to train new people. I know AD has good players and good leads, but it seems like they would rather post criticisms of EP and DC guilds.

Nutshotz

It's been very frustrating for many AD at all levels to deal with the competitive imbalance that exists. We still have some great guilds and many awesome and experienced players.[[ I'm not dissing our guilds or players either]]]] But I think it's widely accepted that AD has the greatest percentage of random casuals. I think this has been true for a long time and a greater issue now than ever.



the I'm not dissing our guilds or players either part, now that made me chuckle. according to your statements last night, that statement proves false! (enjoy your free ride, does that sound about right?)

Telel

Kilandros wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

@Satiar You're right, I shouldn't dis VE like that. Or any of the guilds I might call out in zone chat when I feel there's a competitive imbalance. I largely respect our opponents, including VE. I don't think my POV is as invalid as you say, but this isn't about VE or me.

On the other hand, you've been part of an ESO organization for so long, perhaps you forget what it's like to be on the other side, if you ever knew at all. Maybe back in 1.3 when AD was still dominant and you played solo and in small groups?

It's been very frustrating for many AD at all levels to deal with the competitive imbalance that exists. We still have some great guilds and many awesome and experienced players. I'm not dissing our guilds or players either. But I think it's widely accepted that AD has the greatest percentage of random casuals. I think this has been true for a long time and a greater issue now than ever.

Again, I'm not just talking about prominent guilds. I am talking about guilds and groups of all sizes.

My OP was a kneejerk reaction to another tough night for the faction, and though I didn't intend to post, I think it needed to be said for the good of the game. The best fights and map play come from competitive parity. Laydown wins should be boring to any truly competitive player. AD needs an infusion of experienced players to replace all those we've lost.

Is AD trying to train new players though? It's not really up to EP and DC to reroll if the good AD guilds don't want to train new people. I know AD has good players and good leads, but it seems like they would rather post criticisms of EP and DC guilds.

We are.

Though it's kind of hard when you're at 2 bars, the griffs have a 30+ queue, and the bloops bring a chunk of their 3 bars down to help defend Alessia for EP. Which was the situation for three of this one's three and a half PVP hours today.

At that point all a khajiit can do is run their three to eight pups around in EP's backfield and teach new folks how to try and outrun the purple pills. Oh, and get called a zergling....

Because apparently Telel is just supposed to sit at Faregyl waiting for their opponents to run over them.

And of course there's just no helping those 'I want a group but only if it's led the way I want even though I won't lead' types.

Aztlan

The Dominion Knights haven't been running as usual for the past two weeks. Many of us have been out there soloing or grouping with other guilds, but it feels like our absence is sorely missed. I sincerely hope we get back on the field soon. DK is an AD only guild that usually plays the map relentlessly when it is active.

NACtron

Valwe wrote: »

The Dominion Knights haven't been running as usual for the past two weeks. Many of us have been out there soloing or grouping with other guilds, but it feels like our absence is sorely missed. I sincerely hope we get back on the field soon. DK is an AD only guild that usually plays the map relentlessly when it is active.

Miss fighting Dominion Knights. It was a guild that seemed to have the right mindset and a ton of potential. Hope to see you guys and gals active again soon.

manny254

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

If you're trying to drive the remaining AD from Vivec, GJ.

Despite the fact AD is hopelessly behind in the score, we face constant pressure from groups of all sizes. When I look at the groups hitting us, I see many ex-AD who have joined the farm AD bandwagon.

It's pretty clear most of you aren't interested in actually good, competitive fights.

No, actually we really are interested in good fights.

What you are experiencing is known as a "delusional break from reality." Every faction gets frequently assaulted by the other two factions simultaneously. It's not a unique experience by AD, nor is getting double teamed while in 3rd place.

We all experience it, and it can suck, but AD is most certainly not a victim. Perhaps if we could leave Ash unattended for 2 minutes to fight the full EP faction in the Ales-Chal corridor - without Ash turning yellow - DC might feel some pity for you.

The only pitiable feature of Vivec AD on PC/NA is the seeming lack of guild power.

In AD's defense, when DC has 95+% of its playerbase at Chalman, a old lady and her broom could knock over Ash at that point.

And it's not like DC doesn't do its level best to spend 6+ hours a day squatting in Roe and Brindle, just like EP does at Alessia. Roe's as much an AD keep as Alessia is.

AD draws attention to itself. If I'm fighting EP guilds in the north, AD pushes DC.... even if they don't own Alessia. So I push em back to Fare and camp Roe till they get it in thier heads to attack EP.

I'll never understand why AD would rather run into the meat grinder we set up at Roe/Nikel than attack Alessia.

It is almost like Roe is an AD home keep, and Nikel is the AD home outpost.

Rohamad_Ali

What is happening to AD ? We won last campaign so this was a perfect time for a Khajiit vacation at Hello Kitty Onlime . Did we all go on vacation at the same time ? Someone was supposed to stay and keep everyone organized .

Telel

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What is happening to AD ? We won last campaign so this was a perfect time for a Khajiit vacation at Hello Kitty Onlime . Did we all go on vacation at the same time ? Someone was supposed to stay and keep everyone organized .

Well everytime Telel changes servers everything just seems to go to EP and back.

Sadly when there's a 900 person queue a leader has to make some tough choices.

Fortunately there was no hard choice when it came to coming back. Some of the Dumbminion on Shor during the PVP event were so bad Telel had to invent an entirely new label for them.

Bowtatoes.

Rohamad_Ali

Telel wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

What is happening to AD ? We won last campaign so this was a perfect time for a Khajiit vacation at Hello Kitty Onlime . Did we all go on vacation at the same time ? Someone was supposed to stay and keep everyone organized .

Well everytime Telel changes servers everything just seems to go to EP and back.

Sadly when there's a 900 person queue a leader has to make some tough choices.

Fortunately there was no hard choice when it came to coming back. Some of the Dumbminion on Shor during the PVP event were so bad Telel had to invent an entirely new label for them.

Bowtatoes.

Bowtatoes



Ali is tied up trying to get hairbow achievement an then will return after attained fashion statement .

HaroniNDeorum

Something quick i can say, i truly believe most of AD faction refuses the idea of organized - group builds style, even some guilds don`t want to do it and that`s the point where reds and blues takes advantage over AD. If Ad won last campaign it was because the insane hard job of certain guilds (i could say 2-3) and the desire of win it.

I just started a guild 2 months ago with the intention of make a difference in faction, i believe with the number of ad players who really want to make that difference like Ve in DC or Drac in EP is possible and make a more competitive Cyrodiil, we did it already in the last campaign (from last place to 1st place crowning one guildie emperor). So i hope to see you guys, Dc and Ep, around the map

zyk

Kilandros wrote: »

Is AD trying to train new players though? It's not really up to EP and DC to reroll if the good AD guilds don't want to train new people. I know AD has good players and good leads, but it seems like they would rather post criticisms of EP and DC guilds.

Yes, definitely. In addition to leaders like Telel and guilds like Ruin and TD that run pugs, Venatus leaders recently attempted to help train an AD pug guild. The results were mixed. There was a lot of push back because of the "play how you want" theme of ESO. You can only train players who are willing to learn and adapt.

You can't look at a casual playerbase as a group of rookies gleaming with potential. The reality is that most who are casual are so for reasons that transcend ESO. They are are not the problem. The problem is PVP enthusiasts who play for whichever side is most beneficial to them.

Beyond that, AD doesn't have an issue developing players. We have developed at least our fair share of competitive players. The problem is that so many of them have left to greener pastures.

I would say that as a community we all have a vested interest in maintaining competitive parity. What fun is it, really, to run optimal builds in a coordinated hardcore guild just to run over unorganized, poorly built randoms? Is that really sustainable? Not only will it discourage new and random players from playing, it's probably going to be boring and unfulfilling to the guild in the long run. Unless shooting fish in a barrel is their thing.

One must also consider this is not a thriving game. The PVP enthusiast community in ESO is small. There's no evidence it's growing. ZOS has few, if any, solutions to the issues we face. If we truly want good fights, we need somewhat even teams. I think it's fair to expect those who are multifaction to help remedy competitive parity issues.

Rohamad_Ali

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Something quick i can say, i truly believe most of AD faction refuses the idea of organized - group builds style, even some guilds don`t want to do it and that`s the point where reds and blues takes advantage over AD. If Ad won last campaign it was because the insane hard job of certain guilds (i could say 2-3) and the desire of win it.

I just started a guild 2 months ago with the intention of make a difference in faction, i believe with the number of ad players who really want to make that difference like Ve in DC or Drac in EP is possible and make a more competitive Cyrodiil, we did it already in the last campaign (from last place to 1st place crowning one guildie emperor). So i hope to see you guys, Dc and Ep, around the map

I will help Haronin , just needed a break . Ali was very tired after Our last victory and needed colorful Simcity beach time and other peaceful games for a few weeks with no lag or long queues .

Vilestride

Valwe wrote: »

The Dominion Knights haven't been running as usual for the past two weeks. Many of us have been out there soloing or grouping with other guilds, but it feels like our absence is sorely missed. I sincerely hope we get back on the field soon. DK is an AD only guild that usually plays the map relentlessly when it is active.

before the fall off, DK felt like it was just picking up. Running consistently and appearing more and more organised every day. AD could definitely benefit from having you guys stick around. Is Ta'ran the only DK raid lead or are there a few?

zyk wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Is AD trying to train new players though? It's not really up to EP and DC to reroll if the good AD guilds don't want to train new people. I know AD has good players and good leads, but it seems like they would rather post criticisms of EP and DC guilds.

Yes, definitely. In addition to leaders like Telel and guilds like Ruin and TD that run pugs, Venatus leaders recently attempted to help train an AD pug guild. The results were mixed. There was a lot of push back because of the "play how you want" theme of ESO. You can only train players who are willing to learn and adapt.

You can't look at a casual playerbase as a group of rookies gleaming with potential. The reality is that most who are casual are so for reasons that transcend ESO. They are are not the problem. The problem is PVP enthusiasts who play for whichever side is most beneficial to them.

Beyond that, AD doesn't have an issue developing players. We have developed at least our fair share of competitive players. The problem is that so many of them have left to greener pastures.

I would say that as a community we all have a vested interest in maintaining competitive parity. What fun is it, really, to run optimal builds in a coordinated hardcore guild just to run over unorganized, poorly built randoms? Is that really sustainable? Not only will it discourage new and random players from playing, it's probably going to be boring and unfulfilling to the guild in the long run. Unless shooting fish in a barrel is their thing.

One must also consider this is not a thriving game. The PVP enthusiast community in ESO is small. There's no evidence it's growing. ZOS has few, if any, solutions to the issues we face. If we truly want good fights, we need somewhat even teams. I think it's fair to expect those who are multifaction to help remedy competitive parity issues.

This is a hugely frustrating process no doubt. I have tried to do this for oceanic EP and believe me I can sympathise with you. But the trick is even if you lead 10 different randoms a night, and just 1 of those has potential, you have to lock that one down. do this 7-8 times and you have the foundations of a guild right there. Think of PUGing as a mass screening process.

orinthol

This entire thread was TL;DR for me. No offense to anyone. I know that it's a massive partnership causing this. If it's numbers are full in one (or more) faction/s, the overflow will enter Cyrodiil as a member of a remaining faction. I'll not favor any specific faction with my statements. The collective doing this isn't always faction specific. If you need to know which faction is ultimately favored during a given campaign, you can simply look at the Leader Board. And it is completely legit. Officially.

Official ESO Team Statement:

"Cross faction alliances are allowed. They are not in violation of any current game rule."

I understand it can be frustrating, in a group of 24 (or less) people, to encounter 40 - 60 (or more) enemy players at seemingly every point on the map. It is possible, however, to create a group capable of standing in such a mass and performing relatively well. It's something to strive for as a team, and is quite rewarding when achieved. The players participating in the cross faction alliance are mostly concerned with attaining as much AP as possible, by any means necessary. Faction favoritism is secondary to them.

Those involved (objectively of course) have no reason to consider any potential experience they might be fabricating for other players. It's completely allowed after all. So why shouldn't they casually swap AP, form 100+ player multi-faction super groups, or generally troll people until they want to stop playing? Other than morals/ethics/self esteem, why would anyone ever even bother to consider why such a thing might be (wrongly of course) interpreted as being totally lame. All is fair. Fair and balanced as they say.

TL;DR Version:

It's not a specific faction. It's a coalition of players. And it's totally allowed.

zyk

orinthol wrote: »

This entire thread was TL;DR for me.
<snip>
TL;DR Version:


It's not a specific faction. It's a coalition of players. And it's totally allowed.

Had you actually read it, you would see that no one is saying it's against the rules. It's about competitive parity and the health of the game.

orinthol

zyk wrote: »

orinthol wrote: »

This entire thread was TL;DR for me.
<snip>
TL;DR Version:


It's not a specific faction. It's a coalition of players. And it's totally allowed.

Had you actually read it, you would see that no one is saying it's against the rules. It's about competitive parity and the health of the game.

My "totally allowed" remarks might have been slightly facetious. Who can really tell?

It may or may not be my opinion that players should be locked in the faction they choose for the duration of any given campaign.

It's also possible that I might have I read parts of the thread. I don't recall.

I personally think it is BREATHTAKING when (approximately) 80 players from one faction and 80 players from another fall together upon a group of 12 players from the third faction, like some horrible rogue wave. It's absolutely STIRRING when the two groups of 80 exchange knowing glances (at least I imagine their characters doing that) before casually meandering off in opposite directions without so much as bumping elbows. This sort of thing is MAGNIFICENT when it comes to promoting "competitive parity and the health of the game".

I liked the part of the thread (that I may or may not have read parts of) about all of the substantially generous EU folks that "saved Vivec from the brink of despair or something" by gracing it with their presence. The only thing NA players value more than 100+ enemies falling upon them in unison is when the players controlling said characters all have pings at or above 300. They are moved to tears when the series of several attacks from dozens of people all land simultaneously before they even have a chance to pop a potion. And stuff. Great job!

Again, I think the most rewarding thing in Cyrodiil is being in a group of a dozen or so people and laughing at the horde while it assails you maniacally for several minutes. Before it finally engulfs and devours the party (of course). That's what makes PvP fun for me. Not the secret handshakes, nor the elitist hobnobbery, nor the glorious teabaggings that are dispensed after the proud 40 conquers the 4 foolhardy upstarts. Albeit these things are all totally appreciated, and distinguished, and just plain cool (no doubt). They just aren't my thing. Or the thing of a (significant?) number of players. But oh well.

"Different play styles".

amirite?

Rhetorically am I right?

Don't worry. I know how conspicuously wrong I am. I fully expect to be lectured about my monumental wrongness post haste.

Cheers?

Lucky28

AD has a talent for pissing off both EP and DC at the same time. that's really the root of most of their problems.

adirondack

As an officer in Dominion Knights I will answer one of the questions posed earlier, "is there another raid leader in Dominion Knights"? The answer is that there are several people who have shown to be good leaders, with potential to be excellent, but only Taran leads raids at the moment. DK has historically run between 6-10 pm EST when Taran is online, and when he logs off, the raid dissolves near immediately. Taran is the glue, the mortar if you will, of DK - holding the bricks together. Sounds like a problem but it isn't because of the following:

(1) Many of DK players have a similar work schedule as Taran - they are only available during those hours anyway
(2) Those who stay up later have joined guilds that run later, such as Dominant Dominion or others.
(3) Some in DK really enjoy solo play (myself included) and when the raid breaks, it becomes time for surfing or ganking, depending on your style.

Yes, there should be more raid leads, but please note that DK has exactly 52 people in its ranks, and rarely ran more than 16 people in group., I'm both pleased and somewhat shocked that 52 people have received some attention in this thread. I'm hopeful that our raids gave you good fights and worthy competition. Taran has been offline for just a few days, and when he's back, DK will be on the field again. We look forward to then.

Ray

adirondack

Now to post my own opinion of why AD numbers are dropping.

AD zone chat is incredibly toxic. If I were a new player, I would leave AD immediately based upon zone chat alone. There are simply too many people to ignore to make zone chat survivable; if a new player knew how to ignore players at all.

I have played on both DC and EP, and my impression is while DC zone chat gets its fair share of 'salt' from time to time, it pales in comparison to the constant negativity, finger pointing, name calling, guild shaming, and insane 'freaking out' of the AD faction. Yes, there are certain individuals who do more than most (and you all know to whom I reference).

Additionally, in both DC and EP zone chat, I see a significantly greater amount of fight coordination; AD lacks this terribly. EP is especially good at simply stating "12 inc to drake, 2 siege up FD". And then a group or guild will respond with "PM headed Drake" or similar. This does not happen in AD nearly enough; fortunately Josh (Fantasia), Telel (COH), and Mark (DD) will post where they are planning to defend, but during off-hours rarely does anyone else. Faction coordination is at an all-time low on AD. Why? I believe it is because of another fact stated earlier in this thread - AD is severely lacking strong guilds compared to the other factions.

Between the constant bickering and the lack of any semblance of coordination, there should be no wonder why people have switched to other factions to play. I have lost several good "in-game" friends simply because AD is just too toxic to be around. I can't blame my friends, and I'm sure they aren't the only ones who have left.

I'll leave with one anecdote. Earlier this week Ghostbane came back onto his AD char to chill out and undoubtedly to help when we were losing some scrolls. He was constantly berated by several individuals in zone chat. Now, to be honest, these individuals were terrible trolls by any standard, they were miserable at giving him any worthwhile crap, and frankly I think he kinda thought it was funny in a sad sorta way. But for the rest of us, who know and respect Ghost both as a player and a person, it was simply emblematic of a continuing problem where certain individuals in AD, whether by purpose or by dumb luck, have driven away some of the better players to other factions.

AD is AD's worst enemy.

Keiryan

Trying to make guilds re roll is an absolute pain in the ass and as much as I wish k hole would for the pure sport of It, most are not interested. Still I do desire to experience different things and like Steve said, I do agree that the biggest problem is in fact leadership.

No one is ever really willing to step up and it becomes a matter of respect. For people who know me there is not much to respect in terms of decisions but I take control and provide a fun environment and learn to adapt. That to me is all a leader requires. And the confidence to do so.

I know personally that Lyric Quietus and myself once went to AD to try and provide a training seminar of sorts and it was well received by the general members but met with vitrol and disrespect by the leadership which basically ruined the experience. I know recently Mojar Stalker tried something similar with Ruin Gaming and the same thing occoured. The resources are there for AD to become stronger but it will take an open minded person that is willing to take outside influences and learn the methods of proven leaders for AD to instantly develop another guild. I know for fact that there are quality players (Venatus and hagnado had good members) scattered along AD and so as much as I would like to re roll, it ain't gonna happen. Someone there needs to step up.

Having said that, if an open minded individual does wish to discuss such endeavours, I am always available and often excited to come and teach or help lead new groups in my free time. Someone just needs go step up and have the balls to fail and be wiped repeatedly in an effort to learn.
Running groups has constant growing pains, even in the 2nd year of k hole we still have them as there will always be a constant influx of new people and burnt out leaders. I wouldn't bother unless you actually want to be a competitive group who runs against the big boys. Especially considering what AD is stacked against as i had the horrible pleasure of experiencing last night

Kaghei

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It's always Team Green, Team Purple, Team Orange, blah blah blah... It's never the case unless the other 2 factions are trying to dethrone the one with emp.

what about team white and black?

if you dont play the map correctly you will always get doubled teamed

That doesn't even make sense.

If you mean taking outposts and keeps that are usually staging grounds between the other two factions is "playing the map correctly", you're really just shifting the focus towards your own faction.

i disagree, if the fight is on the other side of the map once they are done fighting you their momentum will make them fight each other but that is not what i was meaning.
I was more meaning if you push one faction hard, eventually they will push back on you, and when they do, so will the other faction because it will be easy captures. At least when i played this game the faction that would win would be the faction that would hold their home keeps and home scrolls for the longest. Not the faction that captured all of EP's keeps for a night.

Agrippa_Invisus

Kaghei wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It's always Team Green, Team Purple, Team Orange, blah blah blah... It's never the case unless the other 2 factions are trying to dethrone the one with emp.

what about team white and black?

if you dont play the map correctly you will always get doubled teamed

That doesn't even make sense.

If you mean taking outposts and keeps that are usually staging grounds between the other two factions is "playing the map correctly", you're really just shifting the focus towards your own faction.

i disagree, if the fight is on the other side of the map once they are done fighting you their momentum will make them fight each other but that is not what i was meaning.
I was more meaning if you push one faction hard, eventually they will push back on you, and when they do, so will the other faction because it will be easy captures. At least when i played this game the faction that would win would be the faction that would hold their home keeps and home scrolls for the longest. Not the faction that captured all of EP's keeps for a night.

Now that everyone's just worth a point (a resource equal to a scroll), and home owned objectives are worth double that, it's more important than ever to maintain home keeps and resources. Scrolls are practically an afterthought and more a way to get focused on by a faction than worth anything of note.

Map dominance is more important than ever. That's what wins campaigns.

Maintain home keeps. Maybe one more beyond. Grab resources before eval. Win.

zyk

adirondack wrote: »

AD zone chat is incredibly toxic. If I were a new player, I would leave AD immediately based upon zone chat alone. There are simply too many people to ignore to make zone chat survivable; if a new player knew how to ignore players at all.

@adirondack In which way do you find it to be toxic? Aside from Iskra, it's pretty tame for PVP which is generally harsh in most games I've played. If you think ESO is toxic, check out the project1999 forums for a taste of what EverQuest was like.

When VE played AD for a cycle, they noted that AD had the least toxic zone chat they had experienced. So I think this is not only subjective, but also relates to how zone chat responds to a faction operating as a smoothly running machine.

I think what makes zone chat heated is when a faction is heavily pressured over a long period of time and has difficulty maintaining its home keeps. So I'd say the toxic zone chat thing has a chicken or the egg element to it.

As far as training players go, again, not everyone can be trained because not everyone wants to be trained. All factions have players like these. I don't fault these players for playing a game they paid for the way they want to.

My point has been that AD presently lacks players who are interested in learning mechanics, optimizing builds and coordinating and the reason is because many of the ones we've had left to greener, easier pastures.

Vilestride

zyk wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Is AD trying to train new players though? It's not really up to EP and DC to reroll if the good AD guilds don't want to train new people. I know AD has good players and good leads, but it seems like they would rather post criticisms of EP and DC guilds.

Yes, definitely. In addition to leaders like Telel and guilds like Ruin and TD that run pugs, Venatus leaders recently attempted to help train an AD pug guild. The results were mixed. There was a lot of push back because of the "play how you want" theme of ESO. You can only train players who are willing to learn and adapt.

You can't look at a casual playerbase as a group of rookies gleaming with potential. The reality is that most who are casual are so for reasons that transcend ESO. They are are not the problem. The problem is PVP enthusiasts who play for whichever side is most beneficial to them.

Beyond that, AD doesn't have an issue developing players. We have developed at least our fair share of competitive players. The problem is that so many of them have left to greener pastures.

I would say that as a community we all have a vested interest in maintaining competitive parity. What fun is it, really, to run optimal builds in a coordinated hardcore guild just to run over unorganized, poorly built randoms? Is that really sustainable? Not only will it discourage new and random players from playing, it's probably going to be boring and unfulfilling to the guild in the long run. Unless shooting fish in a barrel is their thing.

One must also consider this is not a thriving game. The PVP enthusiast community in ESO is small. There's no evidence it's growing. ZOS has few, if any, solutions to the issues we face. If we truly want good fights, we need somewhat even teams. I think it's fair to expect those who are multifaction to help remedy competitive parity issues.

zyk wrote: »

adirondack wrote: »

AD zone chat is incredibly toxic. If I were a new player, I would leave AD immediately based upon zone chat alone. There are simply too many people to ignore to make zone chat survivable; if a new player knew how to ignore players at all.

@adirondack In which way do you find it to be toxic? Aside from Iskra, it's pretty tame for PVP which is generally harsh in most games I've played. If you think ESO is toxic, check out the project1999 forums for a taste of what EverQuest was like.

When VE played AD for a cycle, they noted that AD had the least toxic zone chat they had experienced. So I think this is not only subjective, but also relates to how zone chat responds to a faction operating as a smoothly running machine.

I think what makes zone chat heated is when a faction is heavily pressured over a long period of time and has difficulty maintaining its home keeps. So I'd say the toxic zone chat thing has a chicken or the egg element to it.

As far as training players go, again, not everyone can be trained because not everyone wants to be trained. All factions have players like these. I don't fault these players for playing a game they paid for the way they want to.

My point has been that AD presently lacks players who are interested in learning mechanics, optimizing builds and coordinating and the reason is because many of the ones we've had left to greener, easier pastures.

So give people a reason to come back. As I said, I don't think this is an external problem primarily, people can play on whichever faction they want and should have that ability. There's a plethora of reasons one may want to do so I won't even touch on them.

Guild Building should be AD's number one focus. Persistence will be important here. As Keiryan said the numbers and the potential are there. Someone just needs to filter and train and pull just 20 or so committed members from the population you most certainly have. Its not easy but it will be necessary.

The only thing I think AD needs from the other factions is healthy guild relations. It is going to be hard to guild build if when some more groups do start to emerge they are met with disdain from opposing factions guilds. So long as existing EP/DC guilds are saying "good fights" and talking to said new AD guilds in a respectful, constructive manner then it should thrive. If they are welcomed to the scene by being called PUGs, Tbagged after wipes (and there will be many in the early days) ect then its going to be over before it starts. But this should be a communal quality adhered to regardless, for the health of the game.

zyk

Vilestride wrote: »

Guild Building should be AD's number one focus. Persistence will be important here. As Keiryan said the numbers and the potential are there. Someone just needs to filter and train and pull just 20 or so committed members from the population you most certainly have. Its not easy but it will be necessary.

Truly, if you ask most AD raid leaders, I think you will find it is more difficult than you realize.

This is a different twist on the scenario DC was in a couple of years ago before khole was formed and VE switched over. Only a few months ago, there was a noteworthy thread lamenting the challenges of playing EP.

IMO, AD has lost more decent players than any other faction at this point. Just as DC and EP needed help, AD now does too.

It's incredibly easy to be multi-faction now. A casual player can reroll in a couple of weeks. So it's what most players do. All AD has left right now are its most loyal and players too casual to be multi-faction. Hence the endless farming and mocking of AD players -- the other night I was in Grahtwood and a new player was asking basic PVP questions in zone chat and the response was, "lol are you AD?" That mocking like that has become normal speaks to the challenge of playing for AD.

I know a lot of AD who don't want to faction hop who don't bother PVPing anymore because it's a constant uphill battle. If this continues into the next cycle, I think you'll start to see AD guild leave Vivec.

pcar944

I think as a whole guilds should try and get more "pugs" who are willing to learn in and teach them certain things, that doesn't mean take them into your guild and show them everything

I know a while back EP was doing this and I know Telel still is and sometimes even DC zone gets a lot of guild recruitment offers, but the players must be willing to join and "get trained"

a lot of stuff in this thread that was said about/for AD makes me chuckle because throughout the day you can see when any faction has guild presence on the ground or not

lastly its the whole playerbase that just needs to try and be fair, EG if DC doesn't have Aleswell or Dragonclaw and EP is at Faregyl ... why is DC going to Roebeck is beyond me and I always say that in the zone

sometimes I wish I could join a group, because even as a pug for as long as I've been playing, I generally bring siege/ram/forward camps and if you are hitting at DC keep (mostly during primetime) and get oiled 95% of at time is going to be me lol ... but the load screens and constantly getting tossed off the map makes it almost impossible (that and TS/Discord requirements - finally got Discord to work)

zyk

Even players who prefer PUGs are multifaction these days. For the hour or two some of them have to play, they are more likely to choose a winning team.

Stalker ran an AD PUG one night which I joined to help out. Forget about stacking on crown. The best you can say about them is that most were at the same objective. I think half the players were either sniping or light attacking with bows.

A very good theorycrafter I know designed accessible builds for an AD PUG guild and from what I understand there was incredible pushback because everyone wants to play their personal builds which were nowhere close to optimal.

There's a lot of people posting in this thread as if they underestimate the situation, but in-game it's the opposite. What I'm saying is pretty well-understood. AD's juicy PUGs have been a running joke for about a year now. Every multi-faction guildmate I've had has joked about it.

AD guilds and other dedicated, experienced players work their asses off to keep things as close as they have been for a very long time. It's also solo players like Nahid who started the siege on Roe solo the other night to get our big random depose push started.

Even though AD has been the most casual faction for a while, it used to have a group of amazing random solo players who played objectives and really made a difference. While some still play, it seems most have departed. I see at least some of them playing for the other sides. Others, I think, just stop PVPing rather than deal with the imbalance.

Lore_lai

This is how the map looks like a LOT of times.
It hadn't gotten to its worse point yet but in many situations DC will push Chal and/or Brindle while EP reacts with pushing Alessia (happens more if Alessia is actually yellow and the last yellow ring keep), and taking resources left and right.
Fare could get flagged soon but it's a lottery if it's DC or EP flagging it. Heck - sometimes you get DC flagging Fare while EP takes resources left and right.

Do I think it's factions colluding? No - I think it's actually factions not thinking at all. Not caring whatsoever and not even looking at the map and pushing a faction that maybe has 2-3 keeps left.

Because AD is juicy, right?

It used to be - oh pugs do whatever they want and blah bah bah, we can't control them, they will push whatever - but now I see organized groups come to farm the pugs of a faction that has like 2- 3 keeps left to go to.

Rohamad_Ali

Lore_lai wrote: »

This is how the map looks like a LOT of times.
It hadn't gotten to its worse point yet but in many situations DC will push Chal and/or Brindle while EP reacts with pushing Alessia (happens more if Alessia is actually yellow and the last yellow ring keep), and taking resources left and right.
Fare could get flagged soon but it's a lottery if it's DC or EP flagging it. Heck - sometimes you get DC flagging Fare while EP takes resources left and right.

Do I think it's factions colluding? No - I think it's actually factions not thinking at all. Not caring whatsoever and not even looking at the map and pushing a faction that maybe has 2-3 keeps left.

Because AD is juicy, right?

It used to be - oh pugs do whatever they want and blah bah bah, we can't control them, they will push whatever - but now I see organized groups come to farm the pugs of a faction that has like 2- 3 keeps left to go to.

After taking a break and playing tonight , it seems we are doing well around prime time but still lack a morning and night time presence . Where as EP can still hold the most bars 24/7 every day . Last campaign a lot of us put in OT to make that comeback victory happen but it really burnt out a bunch of people after . We were hoping it would invigorate more AD to participate but after the event it just seemed to dwindle back down .

fastolfv_ESO

lets be honest here the last few campaigns have been effected by morrowind launch, pvp events that managed to get more pvp players to not pvp than to try and sit through a 2 hr que, and complete server meltdowns saying ad won the last one so we should be competitive might not work here. All sides have been effected by one major problem and thats a lack of guilds. Primetime pvp ive seen on dc side ve my guild bod and small mans from a few late night crews and thats on a good night. I do see atleast a few ad guilds aswell but i believe it comes down to quality over quantity, and i really do not mean any offense to anyones grp by that but alot of the grps out on ad side are more easily defeated than the ep guilds that also use the massive pug stacks as fodder to roll over the organized grps.

Second problem is less guilds more pugs mean idiotic decisions by the pug grps / wandering hordes. I hear the same excuse nightly in zone ads easier to pick on than ep cause of numbers, whenever dc hits chal ad hits ash so we buildup south to retake it and never shift back up north until eps inevitable push and take on ales