Combat animation changes is needed or not?

Pr0Skygon

(Please note: I posted a lot of thread about "actual content" and ""gameplay element" for the game, and seeing how the game is doing a pretty good job in those 2 apartments, I think it's time to shake it up a bit with "new" topic).

Let's be frank, the combat animation is top tier for MMORPG. But it's 2017 people, wake up! If ZOS wants to reach a wider audience for ESO (which they should), here's some long running problems with the combat animation (this is not my personal opinions, since a lot of people I've met in ESO also feel the same way):

1. Melee weapons attack range is really off the point. Most of the time, my duel wield weapons don't even hit physically hit the target, but still able to deal damage.

2. The one handed and duel wield weapons animation and sound design are really mediocre. It feels like I'm hitting a sack of meat with a butter knife.

3. The sound effect for hitting heavy armor and light armor are pretty much copy and paste (if they're different, then please toon up the differences). It's a minor issue but still, an issue.

4. An auto lock on camera option is needed (such in triple A games like The Witcher 3 or Batman Arkham series). It's might be hard to implement, but if possible, it'll be a bless for console players (I play on PC btw).

5. An option to give the game an actual feel of M rated action. Blood spilled on the ground, blood stain on armor and weapon, a more brutal dead animation, etc. Come on, ESO is an MMORPG, but also an Elder Scrolls game, so what the hell with the PG13 level of violence? You guys have proved that it is possible in Dark Brotherhood DLC, so why not? (I know a lot of people are not really into gore and those nasty stuffs, so just make it an in game option, not an overall change).

Before asking you guys for opinion, I want to repeat myself again: This is 2017, the game is 3 years old, and it's not just an MMORPG, it's also an Elder Scrolls games. ESO has proved itself to be a worthy opponent to WOW, but it has never been called a great Elder Scrolls game. These changes if implemented might be small, but will be the right steps to make ESO become a power house even outside of the MMORPG genre.

Beardimus

I thought the poll was to vote against animation cancelling, d'oh.

Do agree that the melle attack range etc is stupid.

SaintSubwayy

Nah. Balance the game first, then we'll talk.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

1. Melee weapons attack range is really off the point. Most of the time, my duel wield weapons don't even hit physically hit the target, but still able to deal damage.

Thats called a hitbox and on some bosses, its needed to have a big hitbox (for example Varlariel in AA) cause the ppl need to see the bombs on the ground, if the meeles would have to stay inside all aoes they'd have no chance to survive in there.
And on some bosses (HoF Endboss for example) if you stand upstairs with a meele char you couldnt even hit the boss if the hitbox would be smaller.

theamazingx

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

1. Melee weapons attack range is really off the point. Most of the time, my duel wield weapons don't even hit physically hit the target, but still able to deal damage.

Thats called a hitbox and on some bosses, its needed to have a big hitbox (for example Varlariel in AA) cause the ppl need to see the bombs on the ground, if the meeles would have to stay inside all aoes they'd have no chance to survive in there.
And on some bosses (HoF Endboss for example) if you stand upstairs with a meele char you couldnt even hit the boss if the hitbox would be smaller.

Boss hitboxes are one thing, but you can see even on a skele that something like a dw heavy attack has multiple times the range of most actual melee skills. Balance wise, it's not a huge deal, but it is pretty strange visually.

MrBetadine

True. But I also have some suggestion (comment below).

never implement auto-lock camera. I hate that *** in Witcher 3

Pr0Skygon

YES! These changes will be so awesome.

@MrBetadine As I said, if implemented, please make them optional. We PC players might don't need this kind of auto-lock, but newer player on console are having a bad time in dungeons and pvp in general

Pr0Skygon

YES! These changes will be so awesome.

@SaintSubwayy I know the hitbox mechanic. What i'm talking about is how my dagger have double or even 3 times the range of Twin Slash. I light attack the air, and the skeever 3 meters away from me die. That's not a hitbox problem.

FakeFox

Nah. Balance the game first, then we'll talk.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

1. Melee weapons attack range is really off the point. Most of the time, my duel wield weapons don't even hit physically hit the target, but still able to deal damage.

How do you want to change that? The only way I see is to decrease their range, which would be a aesthetic improvement but gameplay wise horrible.

blnchk

Wasn't there an animation overhaul already? Do you really think it's realistic to expect another one at this point?

Latin

Need to revert the staff light attack animation change, to the behaviour pre-2.4 first. It has been long-overlooked and contributes to more attack weaving misses (with 50+ ms latency) than hits, contrary to its original purpose. When testing, it is good to at least consider how it performs at a range of latency, so as to better cater for a range of players from a range of locations.

Pr0Skygon

YES! These changes will be so awesome.

@ovinnik You might think it's not realistic, but hey, why not hoping for once a while? If it doesn't come true, meh. But wouldn't it be great if it does?
You know what's not realistic? Hoping the game will be "balanced"

Pr0Skygon

YES! These changes will be so awesome.

@FakeFox How is that terrible? You're already have to get close to use skills like Twin Slash or Rapid Strike, so how's reducing 1H weapon range be terrible?

Biro123

FakeFox wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

1. Melee weapons attack range is really off the point. Most of the time, my duel wield weapons don't even hit physically hit the target, but still able to deal damage.

How do you want to change that? The only way I see is to decrease their range, which would be a aesthetic improvement but gameplay wise horrible.

Its lag imho.

lets look at positioning with lag. o = you. x= enemy. - = your weapon. And assume you only hit when in range of your actual weapon model:

Both stood in melee range, not moving.:

o-x - you attack, weapon hits him, does damage - fine.

Enemy starts moving away

Server sees:
o- x - ie out of range of weapon.

You see:
o-x - ie still in range. You attack, but miss cos the server says - nope - out of range - you get annoyed because that should have hit.

200ms later (assuming that's more than your ping, you see:
o- x (same as server)

Now you close on enemy - enemy closes on you

enemy moves fwd back into combat range - but hasn't registered yet with you. How move forward to get into combat range too and attack.
You see:
o-x Attack - misses - you get annoyed.

Server sees:
xo-

So basically, being an online game, there has to be leeway with melee hit ranges/directions to deal with lag. This is doubly important with PVP since both you and your opponent will see different things to each other AND the server. eg. this time x and o are you and another player.:

start:
x- -o

you both step forwards, both wanting to get to melee range:

you see:
x- -o

he sees:
x- -o

server sees:
x- -o (same as start) till 200ms later, both your updates get to the server.. You and he both see the same, server sees:

x-o (both in melee range) Server sends position updates back to the other players

But as you both don't look in melee range yet, you both move a little further forward:

you see:
x-o

he sees:
x-o

server still sees:
x-o (both in melee range)

You both attack. but 200ms later, your position updates reach the server. Server sees:
-o x-
So you miss.

And you receive (the first) updated position info back from the server.
so you see:
-ox-

He sees:
-ox-


Well, you get the point. Same thing applies when backing off too... So basically its kind of necessary to be able to hit anything moving in melee - otherwise you'd have to kind of predict where you think they might be and attack - hoping for the best - with a ton of frustration around missed attacks.

FakeFox

Nah. Balance the game first, then we'll talk.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

@FakeFox How is that terrible? You're already have to get close to use skills like Twin Slash or Rapid Strike, so how's reducing 1H weapon range be terrible?

There are quite a lot of bosses where you have to go to max heavy attack range in certain mechanics. Changing the range of heavies would mean a DPS loss for stamina chars.