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Nos's "Mirakuru" BowBow Stamina Warden (Wrathstone DLC ready)

  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.

    Did you seb's video?


    Now I did, crazy what the synergy does. I wonder what will happen with this synergy and bows coming next update. Looks too good to stay like this for long :|

    Here is the issue: people say it's broken and you can definitely make a case for that - a synergy providing 8-15k dps is insane, but then you have to think - it doesnt benefit melee, it only benefits ranged. Magicka range dobt get more than 2-3k from it, which is fine, but stam range isnt viable without it. So I'd argue that if they want to nerf it, let them buff Bow/Bow enough to make it viable. Bow is already penalized with cast time on Lethals and any buff to that skill will *** off PvPers. So buff the passives. Make Hawkeye stack to 10 stacks and 40-50% max damage. Make accuracy give 5% crit and 170 wpn damage. Again both of the values can be balance tested and adjusted, but buffing Hawkeye is a major way to do it well imho. Especially if you buff it by requiring more stacks

    40-50% is too high, frankly it's fine the way it is and the statement "but stam range isnt viable without it" in reference to the Shadow Silk synergy just doesn't seem true.

    On some solo stam sorc parses I averaged about 43k dps in melee dw/bow, 42k dps in melee with bow/bow. The BOW from ranged bumped up to 47-48k dps from long shot. Bow can keep up minor force with Warband and doesn't need to worry about rearming trap connecting with a moving target as well as the high cost associated with sprinting in between targets or recasting the ability because it missed the moving target (we've all been there).

    DW solo parses are also a bit inflated because rending slash and axe bleeds aren't increased by higher penetration values available in group environments where penetration cap is met. Bows don't use any bleeds.

    I want bow/bow to be viable and it finally is, but for it to be stronger than melee makes no sense, it should be as strong as magicka ranged builds. Same holds true for magicka melee vs stam melee, but thats another discussion..

    Obviously there is the downside of snipe being a cast time ability/single target, arguably giving less cleave/aoe as well as susceptible to cast time cancellations from dodge rolling, blocking or interruptions, but you get the added convenience of ranged survivability, better sustain, bar space, ranged dmg uptime vs lower melee dmg uptime and a easier rotation.

    Throw in elude for a 30 sec buff on major evasion and you have the range + the mitigation of melee stam builds without a sacrifice to your bar space that some DW builds can't afford to lose to have competitive dps.

    I tested melee builds with Warband using rearming trap vs not using rearming trap and saving the bar space.

    Using Rearming Trap with a more powerful set like Advancing Yokeda pulls higher dps than Warband without Rearming Trap on melee builds. Taking the skill out of your rotation serves to lower dps by about 5%, but gives you 1 extra flex spot for melee builds, fair trade. For bow/bow builds it's a bit of a no brainer because channeled acceleration provided no dmg from the skill itself and served to slow down a rotation every 36 seconds

    This is all before you take in to account this ridiculously strong shadow silk synergy which I had no access to in my solo tests.

    Imo, bow is in a good spot, it doesn't need much. The only thing they should change is to make long shot effect all skills instead of just bow skills. This would make more bow/bow builds a little more versatile without buffing them beyond melee builds, it still requires the distance to benefit from.

    Other skill lines like DW have their skills only effect their own weapon skills so it's not really something I see happening and giving a flat buff that works in melee range will just put bow/bow above melee for no reason. There would be no purpose to choose DW or 2H with a change like more crit or dmg or +50% dmg from Hawk Eye.

    I should clarify. Bow isnt viable in the sense that without webs it would never be used in a trial because its dps is around 5k below dw/bow with good raid buffs. You can certainly do very well on it, but without the synergy it cant compete with melee stam nor range magicka.
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    100k dps? damn.

    I mean, it does rely on a synergy that is borderline ridiculous, like 10 % + of the damage from a synergy which is basically like having another sub assault, but i never seen a parse that high, that definitely deserves some recognition.

    I wish synergies like radiate and webs were less clunky, why the range requirements?
    Edited by JinMori on March 9, 2019 3:51AM
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    JinMori wrote: »
    100k dps? damn.

    I mean, it does rely on a synergy that is borderline ridiculous, like 10 % + of the damage from a synergy which is basically like having another sub assault, but i never seen a parse that high, that definitely deserves some recognition.

    I wish synergies like radiate and webs were less clunky, why the range requirements?

    Oh for sure, its definitely all because of the synergy, but the synergy uniquely allows for the highest damage in the game to be delivered by a stamina range warden:)
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    I just wish there would be a "solo" morph for Trapping Webs that would make the skill good without the synergy. The amount of damage the synergy deals is absurd.

    Nice build though, will def try.
    Edited by Seraphayel on March 9, 2019 7:01AM
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    I just wish there would be a "solo" morph for Trapping Webs that would make the skill good without the synergy. The amount of damage the synergy deals is absurd.

    Nice build though, will def try.

    You mean like a dot? To add to your bar?
  • NoMoreChillies
    NoMoreChillies
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    what is the buff tracker that has timer on hail? i need that
    Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    what is the buff tracker that has timer on hail? i need that

    Action Duration Reminder
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    JinMori wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    I just wish there would be a "solo" morph for Trapping Webs that would make the skill good without the synergy. The amount of damage the synergy deals is absurd.

    Nice build though, will def try.

    You mean like a dot? To add to your bar?

    Like the Synergy is removed and it becomes a skill you can use like any normal skill for 50% of the damage the synergy would deal or something like that.
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    JinMori wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    I just wish there would be a "solo" morph for Trapping Webs that would make the skill good without the synergy. The amount of damage the synergy deals is absurd.

    Nice build though, will def try.

    You mean like a dot? To add to your bar?

    Like the Synergy is removed and it becomes a skill you can use like any normal skill for 50% of the damage the synergy would deal or something like that.

    I see
  • WickidMexican
    WickidMexican
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    Since you dont really use dive as a spammable. Could you consider it a flex spot? How much stronger is tzogvins compared to say briarhart?
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Since you dont really use dive as a spammable. Could you consider it a flex spot? How much stronger is tzogvins compared to say briarhart?

    Tzogvin is far ahead. While dive is a flex spot, it provides a passive buff via passives.
  • Ysbriel
    Ysbriel
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    Nice to see a build that promotes the use of skills that are available but barely slotted in common builds. It seems people forget that there are other synergies available than the orbs and spears one group can count on. i’ve always wondered about trapping webs since i saw that skill in use only once and having some skill available to use regardless of build is always good, for the longest i never thought i was gonna slot inner rage with my healer till i ran vDSA. But now my question is, what is the build of the person running trapping webs on your group?
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Ysbriel wrote: »
    Nice to see a build that promotes the use of skills that are available but barely slotted in common builds. It seems people forget that there are other synergies available than the orbs and spears one group can count on. i’ve always wondered about trapping webs since i saw that skill in use only once and having some skill available to use regardless of build is always good, for the longest i never thought i was gonna slot inner rage with my healer till i ran vDSA. But now my question is, what is the build of the person running trapping webs on your group?

    It is usually support that run it, because its a dps loss on a dps.
  • Paosis
    Paosis
    Soul Shriven
    Hi Hedna!

    I was wondering if this build still is viable in Scalebreaker, or what I would have to change to make it okay, I'm no where near min/max, I'd just like a dps spec for my nord tank, so I'm not sure what I should change, as I'm not an orc.
    And I'd really like a bow/bow over a DW/Bow

    Thanks in advance!
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Paosis wrote: »
    Hi Hedna!

    I was wondering if this build still is viable in Scalebreaker, or what I would have to change to make it okay, I'm no where near min/max, I'd just like a dps spec for my nord tank, so I'm not sure what I should change, as I'm not an orc.
    And I'd really like a bow/bow over a DW/Bow

    Thanks in advance!

    Hey i havent touched warden in a bit, but I dont think much has changed, i think just replacing Caltrops with Soul trap and Hail with Barrage and shortening rotation to 10 seconds, by taking out 2-3 lethals should work.

    Probably something along the lines of:
    Shalks>Barrage>SoulTrap>Shalks>PI>Lethal>Shalks>Lethal>Lethal Im not sure if adding in another lethal at the end is worth it, but thats something you can also try.
  • Paosis
    Paosis
    Soul Shriven
    Paosis wrote: »
    Hi Hedna!

    I was wondering if this build still is viable in Scalebreaker, or what I would have to change to make it okay, I'm no where near min/max, I'd just like a dps spec for my nord tank, so I'm not sure what I should change, as I'm not an orc.
    And I'd really like a bow/bow over a DW/Bow

    Thanks in advance!

    Hey i havent touched warden in a bit, but I dont think much has changed, i think just replacing Caltrops with Soul trap and Hail with Barrage and shortening rotation to 10 seconds, by taking out 2-3 lethals should work.

    Probably something along the lines of:
    Shalks>Barrage>SoulTrap>Shalks>PI>Lethal>Shalks>Lethal>Lethal Im not sure if adding in another lethal at the end is worth it, but thats something you can also try.

    Alright I'll try that, so armor is the same then?
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