Love the scaling mechanic concept - but it's highly flawed. SUGGESTION.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Hey there.

One of the things I love about ESO is the One Tamriel change - that granted all players access to the majority of the content by scaling them to CP 160.

However, I think it's very flawed in terms of execution.

Currently, the entire journey from level 1-50 feels off for new characters.

Why? Because you keep rising and falling in power due to how gear is CONSTANTLY outdated - and how you will NEVER stand a chance compared to CP 160+ players when it comes to numeric output.

You go back and forth and never FEEL that you're progressing your character. You're utterly dissuaded from investing in gear above blue level, because you know that it will be outdated each and every level.

The first 160 champion points feel like catching up rather than gaining power.

I suggest the following changes:

Completely give up the concept of level 1-50.

Start new characters at what currently constitutes level 50 with 0 CP.

Keep the idea of sharing CP across accounts.

Instead of using levels - make a SEPARATE XP-based tracker that grants skill points ONLY - instead of levels.

The result:

Still very alt-friendly because CP is still shared.

New characters will get the proper experience of a power curve - where they slowly get stronger and gain new powers

Alts will retain the feeling of progress due to the separate skill point progression - whilst retaining the power they previously earned with CP.

Gear progression will be largely the same - except players will want to change at every 10 CPs instead of every level. I would personally prefer changing the gear tiers to happen at 20 CPs instead, though.

Argah

I made a thread like this a while back, you never feel stronger from 1 to 50 it goes up and down, by stronger I mean TTK on an ad which can be similar at level 10 and level 50 which ain't right.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Argah wrote: »

I made a thread like this a while back, you never feel stronger from 1 to 50 it goes up and down, by stronger I mean TTK on an ad which can be similar at level 10 and level 50 which ain't right.

Exactly. It literally feels like a mandatory frustrating journey that completely goes against the spirit of the TES games.

I understand it's no longer a problem once you've got a single alt with 160 CPs - but it still doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm a no-alt person - and I don't really intend to play multiple characters.

I would really like to enjoy the journey with one character from the beginning - and I have the utmost confidence new players would feel the same.

Argah

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351996/scaling#latest

That's what I said but I don't think those who already have cp know about the problem, it's something the new players deal with.

Argah

michael.albertsenb16_ESO wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

I made a thread like this a while back, you never feel stronger from 1 to 50 it goes up and down, by stronger I mean TTK on an ad which can be similar at level 10 and level 50 which ain't right.

Exactly. It literally feels like a mandatory frustrating journey that completely goes against the spirit of the TES games.

I understand it's no longer a problem once you've got a single alt with 160 CPs - but it still doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm a no-alt person - and I don't really intend to play multiple characters.

I would really like to enjoy the journey with one character from the beginning - and I have the utmost confidence new players would feel the same.

I'm at 200cp now and only starting to get stronger, everything must be scaled to 160cp so until then it's all the same.

Argah

Linked your thread in mine and bumped it since nobody seems to care about this issue, who knows maybe the devs take notice of your idea, probably not but worth a try anyway

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Argah wrote: »

Linked your thread in mine and bumped it since nobody seems to care about this issue, who knows maybe the devs take notice of your idea, probably not but worth a try anyway

I guess I won't care much once I'm at 160+ - except I really think it might give new players a better experience, which can only boost the popularity of the game.

It also shouldn't bother anyone else.

Feanor

Or, you could just equip new gear every 6 to 10 levels and it's completely fine.

Argah

michael.albertsenb16_ESO wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

Linked your thread in mine and bumped it since nobody seems to care about this issue, who knows maybe the devs take notice of your idea, probably not but worth a try anyway

I guess I won't care much once I'm at 160+ - except I really think it might give new players a better experience, which can only boost the popularity of the game.

It also shouldn't bother anyone else.

Yeah I'm not too bothered myself now but like you say giving new players a better experience could keep them around, taking months just to feel powerful must put a lot off and never get to experience progressing which imo is very important in a time sink such as this.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

Or, you could just equip new gear every 6 to 10 levels and it's completely fine.

Yes, because gear magically grants you the proper progress CPs would do (unlike now, when 0-160 is catching up to base level) - and it also comes to you without doing the very activities that aren't as satisfying as they could be with an alternate scaling mechanic.

That's sarcasm.

Gear comes exclusively from playing the game - and playing the game is what's not as fun as it could be. So, no, it's not completely fine in my opinion.

Also, having to constantly upgrade gear simply to reach base level is not something everyone thinks is "completely fine" - or fun.

It MIGHT be fun, if gear represented actual linear progress - instead of playing catch up.

Argah

Feanor wrote: »

Or, you could just equip new gear every 6 to 10 levels and it's completely fine.

Doesn't help, a level 5 with max gear has the same TTK as a level 30 with max gear aka no progression.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Argah wrote: »

michael.albertsenb16_ESO wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

Linked your thread in mine and bumped it since nobody seems to care about this issue, who knows maybe the devs take notice of your idea, probably not but worth a try anyway

I guess I won't care much once I'm at 160+ - except I really think it might give new players a better experience, which can only boost the popularity of the game.

It also shouldn't bother anyone else.

Yeah I'm not too bothered myself now but like you say giving new players a better experience could keep them around, taking months just to feel powerful must put a lot off and never get to experience progressing which imo is very important in a time sink such as this.

I've certainly heard several people say they quit ESO because they couldn't feel progress properly. They blame the One Tamriel update - but, really, it's the execution of the scaling mechanic that's the problem - not the concept.

bloodthirstyvampire

I'm sorry but zos don't care about this

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

I'm sorry but zos don't care about this

They would if they believed it might help bring more players to the game. It's about making them consider it

Feanor

I leveled up several characters without assigning any of my 760+ CP. TTK is not a problem. I mean, how should you feel stronger anyway when everything is dying in 3 seconds max? This is a byproduct of the game being very easy as far as overland PvE is concerned, not an issue of the scaling system.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

I leveled up several characters without assigning any of my 760+ CP. TTK is not a problem. I mean, how should you feel stronger anyway when everything is dying in 3 seconds max? This is a byproduct of the game being very easy as far as overland PvE is concerned, not an issue of the scaling system.

I'm not asking you to agree, but to accept that other people think differently. Since it won't change your experience in any way - what's the problem?

Argah

Feanor wrote: »

I leveled up several characters without assigning any of my 760+ CP. TTK is not a problem. I mean, how should you feel stronger anyway when everything is dying in 3 seconds max? This is a byproduct of the game being very easy as far as overland PvE is concerned, not an issue of the scaling system.

I done the full 5 companion quest line before level 17, done all those boss fights etc. just as easily as I would have 30 levels higher, do you really not think there is something a bit off with that?

Argah

And FYI nobody is saying it's hard, more like it's boring because you don't make any progression, fight molag bal at level 15 spam with a few moves he dead, fight him at level 50 spam him with a few moves dead, boring.

Was much better when first released when you got stronger and could see this strength when going back to starting zones but I do admit 1T is a good thing, scaling for certain areas could be a bit more diverse though so that when you go back to say Auridon enemies there are a bit behind you compared to cold harbour.

Feanor

Argah wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I leveled up several characters without assigning any of my 760+ CP. TTK is not a problem. I mean, how should you feel stronger anyway when everything is dying in 3 seconds max? This is a byproduct of the game being very easy as far as overland PvE is concerned, not an issue of the scaling system.

I done the full 5 companion quest line before level 17, done all those boss fights etc. just as easily as I would have 30 levels higher, do you really not think there is something a bit off with that?

That's a problem, yes. But it's a problem with overall difficulty. I don't see how the suggestion would solve that.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Argah wrote: »

And FYI nobody is saying it's hard, more like it's boring because you don't make any progression, fight molag bal at level 15 spam with a few moves he dead, fight him at level 50 spam him with a few moves dead, boring.

Was much better when first released when you got stronger and could see this strength when going back to starting zones but I do admit 1T is a good thing, scaling for certain areas could be a bit more diverse though so that when you go back to say Auridon enemies there are a bit behind you compared to cold harbour.

I agree completely.

No, the game isn't really hard until you reach end-game with truly hard content. That's as it should be.

But a VERY large part of the enjoyment found in traditional RPGs is the journey in terms of progression and a decent power curve.

It's extremely counterproductive to have players DECREASE in power constantly - and having them catch up to where they were in the past.

Well, in my opinion.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I leveled up several characters without assigning any of my 760+ CP. TTK is not a problem. I mean, how should you feel stronger anyway when everything is dying in 3 seconds max? This is a byproduct of the game being very easy as far as overland PvE is concerned, not an issue of the scaling system.

I done the full 5 companion quest line before level 17, done all those boss fights etc. just as easily as I would have 30 levels higher, do you really not think there is something a bit off with that?

That's a problem, yes. But it's a problem with overall difficulty. I don't see how the suggestion would solve that.

It would solve it by making content easier as you grow in power - instead of going back and forth around a power ceiling that can be reached at level 1, theoretically.

Feanor

Easier? How would you do that? It's so easy you can two shot regular mobs already...I don't think "easier" will be healthy for the game. People will come in for a rude awakening once they try veteran content and the overland us even easier than it now is.

Argah

Feanor wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I leveled up several characters without assigning any of my 760+ CP. TTK is not a problem. I mean, how should you feel stronger anyway when everything is dying in 3 seconds max? This is a byproduct of the game being very easy as far as overland PvE is concerned, not an issue of the scaling system.

I done the full 5 companion quest line before level 17, done all those boss fights etc. just as easily as I would have 30 levels higher, do you really not think there is something a bit off with that?

That's a problem, yes. But it's a problem with overall difficulty. I don't see how the suggestion would solve that.

Well if you start at cp and and xp gives skill points, you will get cp quicker feeling progression, by the time your at molag bal difficulty will be diverse based on how you are set up instead of the same difficulty regardless of whatever level between 1-50.

Argah

michael.albertsenb16_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I leveled up several characters without assigning any of my 760+ CP. TTK is not a problem. I mean, how should you feel stronger anyway when everything is dying in 3 seconds max? This is a byproduct of the game being very easy as far as overland PvE is concerned, not an issue of the scaling system.

I done the full 5 companion quest line before level 17, done all those boss fights etc. just as easily as I would have 30 levels higher, do you really not think there is something a bit off with that?

That's a problem, yes. But it's a problem with overall difficulty. I don't see how the suggestion would solve that.

It would solve it by making content easier as you grow in power - instead of going back and forth around a power ceiling that can be reached at level 1, theoretically.

Exactly it, the power ceiling, can only get weaker.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

Easier? How would you do that? It's so easy you can two shot regular mobs already...I don't think "easier" will be healthy for the game. People will come in for a rude awakening once they try veteran content and the overland us even easier than it now is.

I explained how I would do it. It's basic math.

Whatever you want to believe or pretend - there's really no way around the math.

In the real world, a level 1 ESO character with white gear, 0 CPs and 3 skill points does NOT kill all enemies in 3 seconds. That's utterly false. The harder enemies and bosses will be a challenge for most players under those circumstances.

But I'm not really interested in going back and forth about that kind of exaggeration.

I'm merely pointing out that, by using this system, the player would experience a proper power curve.

Since the enemies are STILL scaled to 160 CP - the initial journey from 0-160 CP would be "catching up" to enemies - and they would still represent a decent challenge to the VAST majority of new players who have no experience with the game.

But the actual progression would be constant and linear - and it would never go backwards like it's doing now.

It's really very simple.

Argah

michael.albertsenb16_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Easier? How would you do that? It's so easy you can two shot regular mobs already...I don't think "easier" will be healthy for the game. People will come in for a rude awakening once they try veteran content and the overland us even easier than it now is.

I explained how I would do it. It's basic math.

Whatever you want to believe or pretend - there's really no way around the math.

In the real world, a level 1 ESO character with white gear, 0 CPs and 3 skill points does NOT kill all enemies in 3 seconds. That's utterly false. The harder enemies and bosses will be a challenge for most players under those circumstances.

But I'm not really interested in going back and forth about that kind of exaggeration.

I'm merely pointing out that, by using this system, the player would experience a proper power curve.

Since the enemies are STILL scaled to 160 CP - the initial journey from 0-160 CP would be "catching up" to enemies - and they would still represent a decent challenge to the VAST majority of new players who have no experience with the game.

But the actual progression would be constant and linear - and it would never go backwards like it's doing now.

It's really very simple.

I think some people just like to believe a suggestion is a cry for help so jump in with comments that make them feel superior, that bit about how could they be good at endgame if one hitting ads in a starter zone...

Almost every game is like that don't make you any worse at so called difficult content, only makes you feel more powerful and waste less time fighting through crap you should be able to brush aside at a higher level.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Argah wrote: »

michael.albertsenb16_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Easier? How would you do that? It's so easy you can two shot regular mobs already...I don't think "easier" will be healthy for the game. People will come in for a rude awakening once they try veteran content and the overland us even easier than it now is.

I explained how I would do it. It's basic math.

Whatever you want to believe or pretend - there's really no way around the math.

In the real world, a level 1 ESO character with white gear, 0 CPs and 3 skill points does NOT kill all enemies in 3 seconds. That's utterly false. The harder enemies and bosses will be a challenge for most players under those circumstances.

But I'm not really interested in going back and forth about that kind of exaggeration.

I'm merely pointing out that, by using this system, the player would experience a proper power curve.

Since the enemies are STILL scaled to 160 CP - the initial journey from 0-160 CP would be "catching up" to enemies - and they would still represent a decent challenge to the VAST majority of new players who have no experience with the game.

But the actual progression would be constant and linear - and it would never go backwards like it's doing now.

It's really very simple.

I think some people just like to believe a suggestion is a cry for help so jump in with comments that make them feel superior, that bit about how could they be good at endgame if one hitting ads in a starter zone...

Almost every game is like that don't make you any worse at so called difficult content, only makes you feel more powerful and waste less time fighting through crap you should be able to brush aside at a higher level.

I certainly don't recognise a rational argument against how this system would be better, so I'll just leave it

Feanor

First of all, in the real world every ESO character starts with level 3, or level 4 if you stay in the wailing prison a bit longer. Second, mobs are not scaled to CP 160, but to CP 50, whereas players are scaled to CP 66.

You want to make the overland PvE even easier. Noted. I don't think many will agree with you that's a good thing though.

Argah

Feanor wrote: »

First of all, in the real world every ESO character starts with level 3, or level 4 if you stay in the wailing prison a bit longer. Second, mobs are not scaled to CP 160, but to CP 50, whereas players are scaled to CP 66.

You want to make the overland PvE even easier. Noted. I don't think many will agree with you that's a good thing though.

Again, not about making it easier it's about feeling progression, you obviously fail to understand so like the other dude I will leave it too, said my part, bye.

michael.albertsenb16_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

First of all, in the real world every ESO character starts with level 3, or level 4 if you stay in the wailing prison a bit longer. Second, mobs are not scaled to CP 160, but to CP 50, whereas players are scaled to CP 66.

You want to make the overland PvE even easier. Noted. I don't think many will agree with you that's a good thing though.

I'm afraid you're wrong - players and all content is scaled to CP 160 in terms of basic stats - according to the developers. Not that it matters in terms of the core of the argument.

Here:

With One Tamriel every zone is effectively set to CP 160 difficulty. This means that all mobs will have CP 160 equivalent strength in damage and resistance. For all players below CP 160, ESO will use the Battle Level system which intelligently scales the important stats of your character up to be able to compete with these enemies.

Today, the content has a "challenge ceiling" during level 1-50 - that you can meet from the very first (since you enjoy being so pedantic - let's just say NEARLY from the very first).

Meaning, it gets both easier and harder all the way up until level 50 CP 160.

I want to make that journey linear and based on a proper power progression curve. I want to make the game MORE enjoyable for new players. With my system, the game would be considerably more challenging from CP 0-160 - and THEN it would start getting "easier".

Though I have a feeling that's beyond you. Sorry, but there it is.

I don't really have the stamina to teach you basic math and how it's logically inevitable. Thank you for your contribution.

Skjoldur

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

I'm sorry but zos don't care about this

At least not as much as adding new stuff to the stupid crown crates. #greed