Detailed comparison of weapon traits for no cp pvp.

glavius

The following is based on a no cp pvp environement:


Sharpened:
Useless vs. shields. Useless vs. targets you overpenetrate (very unlikely except for niche builds). Does not affect healing.

4,2% penetration – If you take target to exactly 0% resistance, this is a 4,4% damage increase. If target has exactly cap resist (50%), this is a 8,4% damage increase. Most targets will of course be somewhere in between, and most probably closer to 5k-15k armor/resists after various debuffs.

5k armor/resist target (after debuffs), sharpened will give a 4,5% damage increase
10k armor/resist target (after debuffs), sharpened will give a 5% damage increase.
20k armor/resist target (after debuffs), sharpened will give a 6% damage increase.
30k armor/resist target (after debuffs), sharpened will give a 7,7% damage increase.

Most targets will probably be in the 5k-20k range after your debuffs, so generally a 4,5%-6% damage increase



Precise:
Useless vs. shields. Useless vs. 3300+ crit resist targets. Does not increase proc based dmg. Potential for more burst with lucky crits.

0 crit resist target and 50% crit dmg modifier. Precise will give 4,5% dmg and 4,5% healing
27,4% crit resist target and 50% crit modifier (7 impen armor). Precise will give 2% dmg and 4,5% healing (typical pvp scenario)
27,4% crit resist target and 62% crit modifier (7 impen armor and shadow mundus). Precise will give 3,1% dmg and 5,6% healing.

Nightblades will gain slightly more value due to the 10% increased crit dmg.



Nirnhoned:
Affects both healing and damage. Works vs. all targets. Does not affect proc based dmg.

Nirhoned is a fixed damage increase, only modified by your +% weapon/spell damage increases, normally major brutality/spellpower.
This makes it hard to compare to % dmg increases like precise and sharpened, since the % increase from it depends on the specific skills you use, and your overall stats.

You basically need to see how much weapon dmg/spell dmg your weapon of choise will give you, add % modifiers, and then calculate the value gained based on the skills weapon/spell dmg coefficient. Compare the increase to the base dmg of skill, and you have the % increase.

For exaple on a magicka sorc with 3 sorcerer skills and major spell power buff, using a gold,staff, your crystal fragments damage will be increased by 406 value. (1335*0,15*1,26*1,61=406).

9000 crystal frags tooltip, nirnhoned will increase the crystal fragments by 406 dmg. This equals 4,5%
10500 crystal frags tooltip, nirnhoned will increase the crystal fragments by 406 dmg. This equals 3,9%
12000 crystal frags tooltip, nirnhoned will increase the crystal fragments by 406 dmg. This equals 3,4%

Another example, nightblade with major brutality and using a gold 2hander.

5000 surprise attack tooltip, nirnhoned will increase the surprise attack by 305 dmg. This equals 6,1%.
6000 surprise attack tooltip, nirnhoned will increase the surprise attack by 305 dmg. This equals 5%.
7000 surprise attack tooltip, nirnhoned will increase the surprise attack by 305 dmg. This equals 4,4%.

Generally nirnhoned will be best if you have low damage modifier from stamina/weapon dmg or magicka/spell dmg, and worse if you already have high damage modifiers.

It also scales slightly better with 2handed swords/axes/mauls because of the higher base damage, and with the mainhand weapon in a dual wield setup (since you gain almost full effect from just nirnhoned on the mainhand weapon)



Infused:
Even harder to calculate.
You will have to do a rotation on a player with your setup (but with a trait that doesn't affect damage, for example no trait/training) This alone is probably pretty hard to do, who wants to gold out a non trait weapon?
Do your normal damage rotation on that player, and use a damage meter addon to see your dps.
Afterwards do the same rotation but with the infused weapon and glyph of choise (probably oblivion)
To get an accurate result, you probably need to do quite a few tests and average them.

Bear in mind the higher armor the player has, the more effective the oblivion glyph will be if you use that one. A test against an average armor value target will probably be best.

Alternatively run recount addon while using a non infused weapon with an oblivion glyph for an evening of pvp. Don't fight any mobs or guards. Check how large a % of your total dmg is oblivion enchant. Multiply by 2 and 1,24 due to half cooldown from infused trait and 6% nerfed dmg, but 30% buff from infused on pts. See how much this will increase your total dmg.



Conclusion:
For damage, precise will be the weakest of the 4 traits, even when using shadow mundus. However it does provide good healing, especially if using shadow mundus.

Nirnhoned seems pretty good, it works against all targets and buffs both damage and healing. However if you have high offensive stats it looses effectiveness.

Sharpened outperforms other traits against high armor/spell resist targets by a pretty large margin. It also increases your proc based dmg. But the disadvantage is it provides no healing.


Infused is abit of a special case. It is mainly useful for single target builds, due to how glyphs function, provides no healing, but will in most cases give the highest single target damage by far with an oblivion damage glyph.

I have not done the test above for my own build, but my addon shows that oblivion damage glyph on live accounts for 5-9% of my total damage on a non infused weapon.
Lets say 7% on average. Reduce cooldown by 50%, and increase damage of the proc by 24%, numbers will be around 17% of my overall damage. (which means around a 10% increase of my total dmg from the infused trait).
Now my build does not have high weapon damage or stamina, so for some builds the damage increase will be lower, but still significant.
But it will beat all the other traits by a pretty large margin regardless, in any single target encounter.



If you have any questions to the math used to determine % bonuses, ask and I will explain as good as I can.
And let me know if I made any calculation errors

WeylandLabs

@glavius

Im glad that you are actually testing stuff.

I do have a question that possibly you can answer or test, it may or maybe simple. I have done alot of testing myself but im on console.

I have a few conclusions after my testing vs yours.

Infused :

Now this trait is a key element to my build next patch. But not 100% sure its doing the entire effect only 85% sure. Let me explain ...

The trait as in the next patch increases the enchantment bye 30% and the cooldown bye 50%.

Does it increase the whole enchantment effect or just the title of it ? What i mean is for example:

Poisoned enchant Does (x) Poison damage over time for 12 sec. Poison is often applied in conjunction with healing reduction effect Minor Defile. This enchants base is (x) amount of DOT, does it also increase the defile portion also ? 30% of 15% = increasing the defile 4.5%. Or does it only increase the (x) damage per tick ?

My conclusions and rapid testing for a week is its increasing the whole enchantment and the effects of it. Im 85% sure its doing as it is supposed too.

I would just like a confirmation about this.

RoyJade

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Poisoned enchant Does (x) Poison damage over time for 12 sec. Poison is often applied in conjunction with healing reduction effect Minor Defile. This enchants base is (x) amount of DOT, does it also increase the defile portion also ? 30% of 15% = increasing the defile 4.5%. Or does it only increase the (x) damage per tick ?

The poison enchant (and the disease one) only does direct damage. The secondary effect often proc on enchant (20%), but aren't boosted by the infused trait.

WeylandLabs

@RoyJade

So your saying that a poison enchant does not do a DOT correct ? And does not apply the secondary effect the same time as the proc on the enchantment ? Are you 100% positive ? And have you tested this ?

SodanTok

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@RoyJade

So your saying that a poison enchant does not do a DOT correct ? And does not apply the secondary effect the same time as the proc on the enchantment ? Are you 100% positive ? And have you tested this ?

Infused buffs enchant. Enchant is 'deal x damage of this type' so the x gets better. Thats the end of it. It has no effect on stuff that the enchant procs like poisoned DoT.

Also poison does not apply defile. That is Disease enchant.

glavius

Each elemental enchant has a 20% chance per enchant hit to proc secondary effect. (poison - poison dot, fire - fire Dot, lightning - vulnerability , ice - minor maim, disease - heal debuff). The secondary effect isnt directly buffed by infused, but it will proc twice as often. Also races that have resistance to a specific element are immune to the secondary effect.

WeylandLabs

Ok so lemme get this straight ...

An infused trait, and a poison enchant has a 30% chance more to do (x) of direct damage on hit, and has a 20% chance to proc a secondary enchantment effect ?

RoyJade

Yep, tested again.
As said before, damage enchantment does X direct damage and absolutely no secondary effect. Fire, poison, disease, ice and lightning damage ticks can all proc a secondary effect (fire/poison are dots, ice does some damage and minor maim, disease does some damage and minor defile, lightning does some damage and minor vulnerability). The chance that a secondary effect proc depend of the attack :
- enchantment have 40% proc chances
- light/heavy attack have 20% proc chances
- direct single target attack have 10% proc chances
- single target dot have 5% proc chances
- direct aoe have 2% proc chances
- aoe dot have 1% proc chance

RoyJade

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Ok so lemme get this straight ...

An infused trait, and a poison enchant has a 30% chance more to do (x) of direct damage on hit, and has a 20% chance to proc a secondary enchantment effect ?

No.
The poison enchant does 2534 direct damage, have a 4 second cooldown and 20% chance to proc poisoned effect. With an infused weapon, it will now does 2534 x 1,3 = 3294 damages with a 2 second cooldown, which results to 6588 damages in 4 seconds (two procs), and two 20% chances to proc the poisoned effect.

glavius

You're wrong about proc chances.
Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

RoyJade

Ah, you're right, my bad.
But you forgot light attack proc chance, haven't you ?

glavius

Light attack 10% counts as a standard ability

nCats

Thanks for the post!

From my own calculations, nirnhoned mauls are in a class of their own, given you have a good pen bonus against tanky targets. All depends on your tooltip increase, really. If nirn damage bonus translates into more than +5% damage tooltip, then you have toe-to-toe with sharpened mauls or swords in a resonable interval of resistance values.

The only way of to not have this 5% tooltip increase consists of making insane damage builds (5k+ wd with a lot of stam), but then again, such builds only stay at 5k wd during a short time (and at this apogee, you don't complain about your burst).

I am thinking of going nirn maul front decisive weapon back for perfect AOE burst experience.

Asardes

On a MagPlar 2W what traits would be better. I already have a sharp sword which is from a dungeon set. But the other will be from a crafted set. Should I make it sharp as well or go with nirn?

WeylandLabs

Lol omg why do i turn to my college education for this.

Ok since everybody has got addons ima keep this short.

This is what ZOS wrote not me... let break this down

Standardized the chance an ability has to apply a secondary effect, such as burning, chilled, or concussed. These chances are.

Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

1.) Standardized the chance an "ABILITY" has to apply a secondary effect.

What is an ability ? Any ability from its skill line with light and heavy attacks though i tested heavy attacks and it does not proc secondary effect.

2.) Now lets break down what is a secondary effect ?

Secondary effects are Burning, Chilled, Concussed, Bleeds, Poisoned, Diseased.

3.) Now a weapon "ENCHANT" has a 20% chance to proc a secondary effect. Now if that enchant is infused bye 30% more not adding to 30% of 20%, but 30% added to 20%=50% follow me ! Ok ... That enchantment should be theoretically buffed bye infused. Adding 30% all around to the enchantment and 50% to the cooldown. NOT just the damage of the enchantment.

Or ? Maybe thiers no Add-on telling nobody this and im the only one doing the REAL math ?

4.) What is a standard abilty of AOE, DOT or a AOE-DOT ability ?

I shouldn't have to say this one.

Oh and you want to increase the ability passives proc elemental scales of your spell crit physical and poison disease scale of your weapon crit.

Heavy attacks with duel wield are not procing secondary effects as tested i have not tested with other skill lines.


Good day...

RoyJade

Dual wield HA is buggued and don't proc enchantment. Since their damage is physical and physical don't proc any secondary effect, DW HA don't proc anything.

The 30% more on infused weapons applies to the damage value, not the proc chance. There is an other trait for the proc chance (both for the enchant and every other damage source) : charged, which increase your proc chance -if I remember- by 220%.
You can test, on a 2 minutes fight while spamming light attack with a SnB enchanted with lightning, my number of concussion proc is more or less 20% of my number of enchant proc.

WeylandLabs

@RoyJade

Your not human are you ?

If i had to guess id say your a program from the machine world.

But if that's true, that could mean you're a part of the system, another kind of control of ZOS.

RoyJade

Last time I checked I was still human. A least I think. Definitively not a sauroïd yet, but perhaps later this year.
Why this question ?

And I'm definitively not a kind of control of ZOS, because ZOS won't say that their game is buggued, or not as much.

SodanTok

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Lol omg why do i turn to my college education for this.

Ok since everybody has got addons ima keep this short.

This is what ZOS wrote not me... let break this down

Standardized the chance an ability has to apply a secondary effect, such as burning, chilled, or concussed. These chances are.

Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

1.) Standardized the chance an "ABILITY" has to apply a secondary effect.

What is an ability ? Any ability from its skill line with light and heavy attacks though i tested heavy attacks and it does not proc secondary effect.

2.) Now lets break down what is a secondary effect ?

Secondary effects are Burning, Chilled, Concussed, Bleeds, Poisoned, Diseased.

3.) Now a weapon "ENCHANT" has a 20% chance to proc a secondary effect. Now if that enchant is infused bye 30% more not adding to 30% of 20%, but 30% added to 20%=50% follow me ! Ok ... That enchantment should be theoretically buffed bye infused. Adding 30% all around to the enchantment and 50% to the cooldown. NOT just the damage of the enchantment.

Or ? Maybe thiers no Add-on telling nobody this and im the only one doing the REAL math ?

4.) What is a standard abilty of AOE, DOT or a AOE-DOT ability ?

I shouldn't have to say this one.

Oh and you want to increase the ability passives proc elemental scales of your spell crit physical and poison disease scale of your weapon crit.

Heavy attacks with duel wield are not procing secondary effects as tested i have not tested with other skill lines.


Good day...

Simply any poison/fire/ice/shock/disease damage has chance to proc its status (secondary) effect. Ability is more or less anything in the game that deals damage and shows on combat log or in death recap (so even monster proc set can proc the status effects like skoria procing burning).

As RoyJade said there is already trait that increases the proc chance for ALL abilities.
Infused increases damage of enchants and does nothing with status effects. Same way as with any ability (if you make some ability better it does not change the secondary effect nor the proc chance)

WeylandLabs

Obviously you or nobody, didnt read what i posted. All good i have some friends on PC and they understand and know how this works.

Remember the add-ons, do NOT register some abilities that some of you are saying. Before making a claim, i suggest you take a look at some of the programs you have installed to help guide you through testing. With and without the program, maybe try installing different addons then comparing the logs.

There you will find the true results of your addons. Also like any addon you install, has a chance to be conflicted with something else or can be buggy, or broken due to an issue with your hardware or software. Or you might have the inability to understand configurations to that particular program.

But im on console what do i know ? ( Judge me )

coplannb16_ESO

For all your guys and gals thinking Infused will increase the secondary effect proc chance (aside from more procs due to lower enchant-cooldown, e.g. 20% every 2 seconds instead of every 4 seconds ) maybe you should look up the Charged-trait?

RoyJade

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Obviously you or nobody, didnt read what i posted. All good i have some friends on PC and they understand and know how this works.

Remember the add-ons, do NOT register some abilities that some of you are saying. Before making a claim, i suggest you take a look at some of the programs you have installed to help guide you through testing. With and without the program, maybe try installing different addons then comparing the logs.

There you will find the true results of your addons. Also like any addon you install, has a chance to be conflicted with something else or can be buggy, or broken due to an issue with your hardware or software. Or you might have the inability to understand configurations to that particular program.

Do the test I've do (light attack with a one handed with a lightning/disease/ice enchant on a naked character), and use only the ingame damage numbers.
When you see only the light attack : no proc.
When you see the light attack + one damage around 2000 : enchant procced.
When you see the light attack + the 2000 damage from enchant + a tiny additional damage and the visual effect of concussed, chilled or diseased : enchant + secondary effect procced.
No need for addons. Both addons and ingame observation does exactly the same results to me, with and without infused. Only the damage value of the enchant proc (and not the one of the secondary effect) change, along with the proc rate of the enchant and of course the proc rate of the secondary effect but alway with a 1/5 ratio (so 20% chance).


Edit : you can even use the ingame debuff option to see when the secondary effect proc. Really, no need for addons.

Derra

glavius wrote: »

Each elemental enchant has a 20% chance per enchant hit to proc secondary effect. (poison - poison dot, fire - fire Dot, lightning - vulnerability , ice - minor maim, disease - heal debuff). The secondary effect isnt directly buffed by infused, but it will proc twice as often. Also races that have resistance to a specific element are immune to the secondary effect.

WHAT?

Berenhir

Derra wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Each elemental enchant has a 20% chance per enchant hit to proc secondary effect. (poison - poison dot, fire - fire Dot, lightning - vulnerability , ice - minor maim, disease - heal debuff). The secondary effect isnt directly buffed by infused, but it will proc twice as often. Also races that have resistance to a specific element are immune to the secondary effect.

WHAT?

I'm pretty sure I got burned on my dunmer...

glavius

Derra wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Each elemental enchant has a 20% chance per enchant hit to proc secondary effect. (poison - poison dot, fire - fire Dot, lightning - vulnerability , ice - minor maim, disease - heal debuff). The secondary effect isnt directly buffed by infused, but it will proc twice as often. Also races that have resistance to a specific element are immune to the secondary effect.

WHAT?

That's the way it works. One of the less known mechanics of ESO :-|

SodanTok

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Obviously you or nobody, didnt read what i posted. All good i have some friends on PC and they understand and know how this works.

Remember the add-ons, do NOT register some abilities that some of you are saying. Before making a claim, i suggest you take a look at some of the programs you have installed to help guide you through testing. With and without the program, maybe try installing different addons then comparing the logs.

There you will find the true results of your addons. Also like any addon you install, has a chance to be conflicted with something else or can be buggy, or broken due to an issue with your hardware or software. Or you might have the inability to understand configurations to that particular program.

But im on console what do i know ? ( Judge me )

You reacted right below me so I will go on limp you replied to me.
I actually have no idea what are you saying. Try to collect your thoughts and type better response. I did not speak about some abilities. Everything I said is simple way it works. You can test it works that way with and without addon. This is not some stuff I found out by testing with buffed SW. This is the way it always worked, the way it should work and the way it works once you test it. You cant get closer to truth.

glavius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Each elemental enchant has a 20% chance per enchant hit to proc secondary effect. (poison - poison dot, fire - fire Dot, lightning - vulnerability , ice - minor maim, disease - heal debuff). The secondary effect isnt directly buffed by infused, but it will proc twice as often. Also races that have resistance to a specific element are immune to the secondary effect.

WHAT?

That's the way it works. One of the less known mechanics of ESO :-|

I would so much like to tell you that that is not the case, but I actually never paid attention. Anyway it sounds too out of place and hidden for me to believing it

glavius

SodanTok wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Obviously you or nobody, didnt read what i posted. All good i have some friends on PC and they understand and know how this works.

Remember the add-ons, do NOT register some abilities that some of you are saying. Before making a claim, i suggest you take a look at some of the programs you have installed to help guide you through testing. With and without the program, maybe try installing different addons then comparing the logs.

There you will find the true results of your addons. Also like any addon you install, has a chance to be conflicted with something else or can be buggy, or broken due to an issue with your hardware or software. Or you might have the inability to understand configurations to that particular program.

But im on console what do i know ? ( Judge me )

You reacted right below me so I will go on limp you replied to me.
I actually have no idea what are you saying. Try to collect your thoughts and type better response. I did not speak about some abilities. Everything I said is simple way it works. You can test it works that way with and without addon. This is not some stuff I found out by testing with buffed SW. This is the way it always worked, the way it should work and the way it works once you test it. You cant get closer to truth.

glavius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Each elemental enchant has a 20% chance per enchant hit to proc secondary effect. (poison - poison dot, fire - fire Dot, lightning - vulnerability , ice - minor maim, disease - heal debuff). The secondary effect isnt directly buffed by infused, but it will proc twice as often. Also races that have resistance to a specific element are immune to the secondary effect.

WHAT?

That's the way it works. One of the less known mechanics of ESO :-|

I would so much like to tell you that that is not the case, but I actually never paid attention. Anyway it sounds too out of place and hidden for me to believing it

I tested it with the heal debuff applied from disease glyph. It never procced on my bosmer. (@ahzekahriman helped with the test).
I discovered it by chance, since the testing I was doing was to check if there was a difference on the heal debuff value when comparing purple and gold disease glyphs.

I did not bother testing with the fire/poison glyph, because the effects from them are quite weak. But was told (by @ahzekahriman I believe) that burning secondary effect does not work vs. dunmers.
The test was done quite a while ago, so things might have changed, but I doubt it. Zenimax probably don't even realize the mechanic exists...

WeylandLabs

@glavius I thank you and @ahzekahriman for your work and the rigorous testing you are doing.

I'd also like to point out if the add-ons that you were using are coded to register enchantment debuffs for all enchantments. And if so are the configurations set to get the information necessary for it.

glavius

No addon used. Was simply comparing heal values before and after the enchantment hit. In case of a bosmer getting hit, it was always 100% of normal heal values. Vs. other races reduced by 30% after the enchantment secondary effect procced.

WeylandLabs

Ok... did you test infused ? Disease enchant gold ?

Xvorg

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@RoyJade

So your saying that a poison enchant does not do a DOT correct ? And does not apply the secondary effect the same time as the proc on the enchantment ? Are you 100% positive ? And have you tested this ?

Poison enchant does direct dmg with a chance of proccing poison status, which is a DoT