Every item trait should be OP

Br1ckst0n

Making their effect equal only hurts diversity. Instead make all of them OP in different ways . For example:

• Sharpened could be the best for solo
• Precise could be the best for groups
• Nirn could be the best for bursting
• Infused could be the best of aoe

This is only an example and could be changed up. Same also goes for the other traits aswell as the ones for armor.

seedubsrun

How could you possibly assure those traits would be used that way without creating all kinds of other changes that Zos wouldn't be able to control or set up properly?

Also, it seems more likely that normalizing damage between traits would actually increase diversity since you could use different traits with little difference in damage output. Also, you could use the weapon trait that best suits the build you're creating instead of just having one go to trait you have to use to be competitive. I've already seen people theory crafting all kinds of builds with different traits. I can't remember the last time I saw that happen.

All that aside, Sharpened is still the best mathematically from the number crunching I've seen so far even after a 50% nerf

I do however love seeing new ideas and don't want to come off as a jerk so please explain how it would work a bit better.

Br1ckst0n

seedubsrun wrote: »

I do however love seeing new ideas and don't want to come off as a jerk so please explain how it would work a bit better.

I would balance penetration in a simple but effective way: Adding in more armor/spell resistance debuff sets. Since every bit of penetration over the cap is wasted the stat would become near worthless for group oriented play.

To make precise more viable for group play they could simply change back warhorn to be multiplicative. That should be enough to make it bis for trial groups.

With nirn it gets kind of tricky if you want to make it burst oriented. I guess you could give a bonus to direct damage abilities (might break pvp).

To make infused for aoe you would need to totally change it. Something that would work is: Your single target abilities damage nearby enemies for x% of the damage done.

seedubsrun

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

I do however love seeing new ideas and don't want to come off as a jerk so please explain how it would work a bit better.

I would balance penetration in a simple but effective way: Adding in more armor/spell resistance debuff sets. Since every bit of penetration over the cap is wasted the stat would become near worthless for group oriented play.

To make precise more viable for group play they could simply change back warhorn to be multiplicative. That should be enough to make it bis for trial groups.

With nirn it gets kind of tricky if you want to make it burst oriented. I guess you could give a bonus to direct damage abilities (might break pvp).

To make infused for aoe you would need to totally change it. Something that would work is: Your single target abilities damage nearby enemies for x% of the damage done.

Ahh so Infused would add a minor aoe effect to single target attacks. Sorta in the vein of the destro passive that gives lightning staves a boost to aoe damage but this could be used by anyone even stam characters.

Nirn as it stands boosts your weapon and/or spell damage for the bar it's equipped on. If you got rid of that in exchange for the bonus to direct damage that would be more balanced.

I see where you're going now. Interesting idea

SanTii.92

Well that is pretty much how it's going to work. Sharp gonna be best if group can't offer enough penetration, if they do then precise comes on top. Then you got infused and nirn very competitive for pvp in different scenarios and decisive, defensive and powered for tanks and supports offering different stuff. Seems about fine to me.

Berenhir

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

Making their effect equal only hurts diversity. Instead make all of them OP in different ways . For example:

• Sharpened could be the best for solo
• Precise could be the best for groups
• Nirn could be the best for bursting
• Infused could be the best of aoe

This is only an example and could be changed up. Same also goes for the other traits aswell as the ones for armor.

It is already like that.
Sharpened best against non-shielded target for damage only.
Precise best against non-shielded targets for damage and healing.
Nirnhoned best against all targets for damage and healing
Infused best against all targets if you lack damage or support only.

DaveMoeDee

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

Making their effect equal only hurts diversity. Instead make all of them OP in different ways . For example:

• Sharpened could be the best for solo
• Precise could be the best for groups
• Nirn could be the best for bursting
• Infused could be the best of aoe

This is only an example and could be changed up. Same also goes for the other traits aswell as the ones for armor.

You are mixing your categories. Solo and group are game modes. Burst and AOE are types of attack. It makes your concept confusing.

And what you are suggesting obviously hurts diversity because you want to make a single trait that everyone should use in a particular context.

I strongly disagree with the idea that aiming to have a "best for groups" or "best for solo" trait is a good idea from a design perspective. They should not be designing for that. They could have a trait best for burst against certain types of enemies, sure. Or trait best against heavily armored foe. Or trait best when outnumbered, or against spellcasters. "Best for solo" is far too broad, especially since there are a lot of different solo builds.

And ZOS is already doing what I mentioned in the last paragraph.

Skayaq

Your suggestion would not increase diversity at all. It would just force every one to farm four weapons instead of one.

Br1ckst0n

Skayaq wrote: »

Your suggestion would not increase diversity at all. It would just force every one to farm four weapons instead of one.

So having 4 traits with the same effect is diversity? Might just remove 3 of them then.

Ghost-Shot

Or...they could all be properly balanced

FakeFox

How should nirn be good for burst? It is a constant percentage damage increase, just like sharpend. So whichever is stronger will make more burst as well as more constant DPS.

Br1ckst0n

FakeFox wrote: »

How should nirn be good for burst? It is a constant percentage damage increase, just like sharpend. So whichever is stronger will make more burst as well as more constant DPS.

By changing what it does. Like it was done before.

Xvorg

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

How should nirn be good for burst? It is a constant percentage damage increase, just like sharpend. So whichever is stronger will make more burst as well as more constant DPS.

By changing what it does. Like it was done before.

If you make Nirn what was before, then Sharp will be non used.

I've never liked Nirn as a trait. 8 traits = 8 divines... but ZoS messed everything up

GeorgeBlack

Weapon Traits should improve the tooltip of some weapon skills.

Precise eg: Poison Injection, Execution, Flying Dagger

Sharpened eg: Crit Rush, Twin Slashes, Low Slash

You get the idea.

Izaki

Well that's not a very bright idea...

Doctordarkspawn

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Or...they could all be properly balanced

In a PVP balance? Impossible, as people should know by know.

Br1ckst0n

Xvorg wrote: »

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

How should nirn be good for burst? It is a constant percentage damage increase, just like sharpend. So whichever is stronger will make more burst as well as more constant DPS.

By changing what it does. Like it was done before.

If you make Nirn what was before, then Sharp will be non used.

I've never liked Nirn as a trait. 8 traits = 8 divines... but ZoS messed everything up

I never said that i want to revert the change. I said you could just change it to something new.

idk

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

Making their effect equal only hurts diversity. Instead make all of them OP in different ways . For example:

• Sharpened could be the best for solo
• Precise could be the best for groups
• Nirn could be the best for bursting
• Infused could be the best of aoe

This is only an example and could be changed up. Same also goes for the other traits aswell as the ones for armor.

I do not think it is possible to fine tune traits to that degree considering all the choices of sets, CP, mundus and skills we have available.

What we can ask and hopefully will come about with the changes on the PTS is all the traits will be useful in a manner that if one gets an infused weapon the benefit will be not be to far off of whatever the BiS traits will become.

STEVIL

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

Skayaq wrote: »

Your suggestion would not increase diversity at all. It would just force every one to farm four weapons instead of one.

So having 4 traits with the same effect is diversity? Might just remove 3 of them then.

THIS. /\

As long as the objective is to make three to four traits all be about more dam and being close enough to not really matter which one, diversity is more skin deep than substantive.

To me the issue in the inward focus of traits. They buff YOUR numbers.

Instead IMO they should be outward looking, focusing on target or at least the attack.

Have nirn be bonus x to damage for all cases, making it second best everywhere.

Have sharp be best with double x against giants, ogres, etc
Have infused double x only against daedra undead.
Etc etc etc... Divide categories as needed including PvP.

So against their preferred target every weapon is best but against others it is worst, except burn which is second best everywhere.

Now there is no meta, no best weapon by 1% but a bunch of "right tool for the job" cases making all of them best in the right content.

Draqone

As someone here already said, they are are pretty good with this iteration. They are similar but different.

Precise and Sharpened do not work against shields.
Sharpened and infused do not affect your healing.
Sharpened can overpenetrate targets in group play, making it less effective.
Infused allows you to apply status effects and/or diversify damage.

STEVIL

Draqone wrote: »

As someone here already said, they are are pretty good with this iteration. They are similar but different.

Precise and Sharpened do not work against shields.
Sharpened and infused do not affect your healing.
Sharpened can overpenetrate targets in group play, making it less effective.
Infused allows you to apply status effects and/or diversify damage.

for the last one, infused really has little to no impact on that - all the abilities can do that unless you choose enchants that dont do so. the closest to an impact on that infused gives an edge to is maybe the reduction in cool down. charged would be more in the line of boosting status effects.

Br1ckst0n

Draqone wrote: »

As someone here already said, they are are pretty good with this iteration. They are similar but different.

Precise and Sharpened do not work against shields.
Sharpened and infused do not affect your healing.
Sharpened can overpenetrate targets in group play, making it less effective.
Infused allows you to apply status effects and/or diversify damage.

Infused can affect your healing if you use a weapon/spell damage enchant. With that its also already better than nirn, rendering that trait pretty much useless.

While sharpened can overpenetrate its quite unlikely since there is a lack of group penetration sets (armor debuff sets).

Qbiken

All traits can´t be OP for everything but each trait can be OP for something (more or less as it is now).

STEVIL

Qbiken wrote: »

All traits can´t be OP for everything but each trait can be OP for something (more or less as it is now).

nothing is best everywhere and everything is best somewhere (or second best everywhere) is my general goalpost for balance.