Why is ESO More Laggy than Other Games?

GrumpyDuckling

What is the difference between ESO and other online games, which makes ESO lag more? I'm on Xbox, and while in rare instances I might experience lag in other games, it's not nearly as crippling nor frequent than it is in ESO:

- Halo 5
- Halo Master Chief Collection
- Destiny
- Fifa
- NBA 2K
- Madden
- Titanfall 1 and 2

And I'm not just talking about lag that occurs when there are 100+ people within a 500 meter radius of one another during a tri-zerg attack in Cyrodiil. I can understand lag happening there because no other game I play presumably puts that many people into such a tight space, but how is it so bad, at times, in the following situations?

- VMA lag, freezing, and crashing (single player instance)
- Overland questing (single player or small group instance with potentially other randoms)
- Dungeons (four-player instance)

Does anyone actually know what ESO does differently than other games that causes more lag? I'm not knowledgeable about servers, maintenance, or whatever it is that causes and/or prevents lag from happening on ZOS' side of things.

The_Smilemeister

Because none of those other games are MMOs. Great bait post.

GrumpyDuckling

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Because none of those other games are MMOs. Great bait post.

What does being an MMO have to do with it during single player instances (ex: VMA) where no other players are involved?

Yakidafi

Bcs eso is so much better than other games and no one is perfect. //ghandi

Tasear

I always assumed it was because it had to render more items in the background then other games not even including the mobs and other players. Also kinda think the rendering needs a bit of optimization, but who knows.

LMar

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Because none of those other games are MMOs. Great bait post.

What does being an MMO have to do with it during single player instances (ex: VMA) where no other players are involved?

Even if no other people are involved the game has t o check with the server very often to report the state of your character/bosses/abilities etc

Countcalorie

cos zenimax dont give a flying *** or we would have server transfers and better servers in general.

Seraphayel

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Because none of those other games are MMOs. Great bait post.

Well... no.

Final Fantasy XIV has superior graphics, superior animations, superior world design and more players at the same spot and it lags less than ESO on PS4.

kuro-dono

ESO laggs more since there is *** loads more calculations going on.

pve its very obvious when you got 12 ppl in trial group and they spam alot. *** loads of aoes and dots and such going. then sorcs add even more with pets and such.

if you venture to cyrodiil, the pvp area. you will be amazed how much there is going on, not everyday and not everyhour, but when for example last emperor keep under attack, lol check that place out.

as the game has animation cancelling and abilities can be comboed together pretty much seamlessly you produce lots of calculations to the server. also the graphics speak for themself too.

any game with proper cooldowns on skills is very playable compared to eso.

kuro-dono

ff is fancy pancy video porno with just limited calculcations and end result always the same, while in eso... damn the thing is in total universe.

Bonzodog01

There is a line of thought amongst the devs that the CP system might be to blame. They know very well about the lag, but trying to pin down its exact cause has been at best problematic.

I wasn't here during no-CP week in Cyrodiil, but I was told that Cyrodiil was considerably less laggy. See, the problems arise when the server is doing millions of calculations for a group of players to produce their damage based on their CP point allocations.

Likewise, its possible that it also causes problems in PvE areas where there are more than a dozen players.

Now ZOS are faced with a huge problem - they can't just scrap the CP system, but how do they stop the servers from having to do so many calculations.

This is partially why they trimmed down a load of the CP tree stars so the percentages were a lot less, and then put in the waypoints in the trees, so the server ONLY does the calculations at those waypoints.

This is whats causing some really odd build problems amongst the theorycrafters who arent getting the figures they expect to see.

At this point, the CP code is such a tangled mess that it might be best to scrap the entire current system and maybe trim it back very heavily so its just 3 trees in total, giving the servers a lot less to deal with.

This is also the leading cause behind scrapping CP in PvP altogether.

I also suspect some of the lag has been caused by them producing much higher quality models and far more proc sets, so the sets themselves are causing many more problems.

I personally believe we should -

1) Trim down the number of dropped sets to around 15 in total.

2) Redesign the CP tree so there is just ONE tree of each color containing optimisation stars.

3) Look at ways of offloading calculations to clients. Maybe a rejig of client/server architecture to make it so small group instances are Peer-to-peer, but the openworld is still client to Megaserver?

4) Scrap CP in PvP altogether.

Xvorg

CPs and major/minor buffs and proc sets

Nutshotz

I don't think it's just that eso has more calculations cuz of CP tree, gear set, background checks to the server and so forth.

Yes we know CP has a little bit to do with the lag but if you were around in the beginning eso never lagged this bad especially in cyro. We had way bigger fights than we do now. Hell for instance logged into a 1 bar campaign and within minutes of entering combat of a 6man group lag settled in. So no CP on that campaign and yet there was still lag. Was on with a sotha sil before I called it a night. No CP campaign again and yet there was lag there too. Not as bad as vivec on pc na but still very noticeable.

So it's a lot more in depth than the so called CP system causing the lag.

I've been on lots of mmo's where there would be hundreds in a small area kinda like the last emo keep and it would barely lag. Eso has something going on either in server side or in the coding or something more intense that is causing the lag.

As for the people who are experiencing it in solo instances that should give the biggest hint or 2 people in skreach all of a sudden get hot with 3k ping.

Those are all hands on experiences. So personally I believe CP has a small part but than look at the no CP campaign.

NeillMcAttack

Well, firstly those games you listed run almost entirely client side. ESO is entirely server side.
Secondly, it's a port of a PC game that is clearly not optimized for your console.

But don't fret, you getting the opportunity to purchase a new, apparently better, console in the hope it run ESO to a higher degree.

Tasear

wait... isn't it because elder scrolls has no cooldown on skills like other games? In fact isn't this why we make jokes about heavy attack online. As to say I noticed a slight yet noticeable frame rate increase since morrowind, so maybe this what is to blame.

Still something is odd when even the non-combat pets are causing frame rate loses while combat pets aren't.

kuro-dono

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I don't think it's just that eso has more calculations cuz of CP tree, gear set, background checks to the server and so forth.

Yes we know CP has a little bit to do with the lag but if you were around in the beginning eso never lagged this bad especially in cyro. We had way bigger fights than we do now. Hell for instance logged into a 1 bar campaign and within minutes of entering combat of a 6man group lag settled in. So no CP on that campaign and yet there was still lag. Was on with a sotha sil before I called it a night. No CP campaign again and yet there was lag there too. Not as bad as vivec on pc na but still very noticeable.

So it's a lot more in depth than the so called CP system causing the lag.

I've been on lots of mmo's where there would be hundreds in a small area kinda like the last emo keep and it would barely lag. Eso has something going on either in server side or in the coding or something more intense that is causing the lag.

As for the people who are experiencing it in solo instances that should give the biggest hint or 2 people in skreach all of a sudden get hot with 3k ping.

Those are all hands on experiences. So personally I believe CP has a small part but than look at the no CP campaign.

see. as in beta? thats the reason why it didnt lagg so much, because there was not much of calculations going on, ppl were happily resto staff heavy attacking and dropping skill here and there, some pew pew tards just pewing just for the fun of it, and sorcs bolt escaping once or twice and pew pew. these days its this ADHD type skill spammage. watch for single proctardblade wreck multiple players with ease, watch aoe choo choo *** players. first of all, if you run addons or have the effects popping etc, you will see how many abilities deal dmg, do special effects on you, and so on.

kuro-dono

kuro-dono wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I don't think it's just that eso has more calculations cuz of CP tree, gear set, background checks to the server and so forth.

Yes we know CP has a little bit to do with the lag but if you were around in the beginning eso never lagged this bad especially in cyro. We had way bigger fights than we do now. Hell for instance logged into a 1 bar campaign and within minutes of entering combat of a 6man group lag settled in. So no CP on that campaign and yet there was still lag. Was on with a sotha sil before I called it a night. No CP campaign again and yet there was lag there too. Not as bad as vivec on pc na but still very noticeable.

So it's a lot more in depth than the so called CP system causing the lag.

I've been on lots of mmo's where there would be hundreds in a small area kinda like the last emo keep and it would barely lag. Eso has something going on either in server side or in the coding or something more intense that is causing the lag.

As for the people who are experiencing it in solo instances that should give the biggest hint or 2 people in skreach all of a sudden get hot with 3k ping.

Those are all hands on experiences. So personally I believe CP has a small part but than look at the no CP campaign.

see. as in beta? thats the reason why it didnt lagg so much, because there was not much of calculations going on, ppl were happily resto staff heavy attacking and dropping skill here and there, some pew pew tards just pewing just for the fun of it, and sorcs bolt escaping once or twice and pew pew. these days its this ADHD type skill spammage. watch for single proctardblade wreck multiple players with ease, watch aoe choo choo *** players. first of all, if you run addons or have the effects popping etc, you will see how many abilities deal dmg, do special effects on you, and so on.

as an tank on my other alt, not my main, with abilities showing on my screen, my screen will be flooding with data in combat when 3 years ago, it was very reasonable amount of data on my screen.

craftycarper73

because the servers are shite

Potenza

FiFa - ok

kuro-dono

another crazy move by zenimax was to allow ppl to have 3 full set, as in, 2x5 set and 1x2 set, and they mostly consist either procs or some buff which allows you to continue combat way longer on pew pew mode than on beta times. or even 2 year ago.

ChunkyCat

Tasear wrote: »

I always assumed it was because it had to render more items in the background then other games not even including the mobs and other players. Also kinda think the rendering needs a bit of optimization, but who knows.

You take that logic and you go somewhere else, pal! We don't like your kind here.

The_Smilemeister

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Because none of those other games are MMOs. Great bait post.

What does being an MMO have to do with it during single player instances (ex: VMA) where no other players are involved?

That question would make more sense if over half the games you listed didn't have OFFLINE single player. You're comparing the lag of an MMO to non MMO titles. Titles which don't require a server to be able to play on.

The_Smilemeister

Seraphayel wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Because none of those other games are MMOs. Great bait post.

Well... no.

Final Fantasy XIV has superior graphics, superior animations, superior world design and more players at the same spot and it lags less than ESO on PS4.

Well... yes.

You missed the point of my message. He compared non MMO titles to an MMO title. MMOs require a server to play on, many non MMO titles (including over half of the games on OP's list) don't require a server to run on.

The_Smilemeister

Hence why I declared the post a bait post, and it worked, so good on OP.

The_Smilemeister

Also, fun fact, OP is the same guy who started the "non-binary" post. A great laugh, I'll give it that, but still bait.

If that does show he's a bait poster then I don't know what will. lol

Bonzodog01

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Hell for instance logged into a 1 bar campaign and within minutes of entering combat of a 6man group lag settled in. So no CP on that campaign and yet there was still lag. Was on with a sotha sil before I called it a night. No CP campaign again and yet there was lag there too. Not as bad as vivec on pc na but still very noticeable.

So it's a lot more in depth than the so called CP system causing the lag.

Go back a bit and think - what were you wearing? what weapons were you using? did they have procs on them for the 5th piece?

If so, THATS whats causing the lag in no-CP, even in 6 man groups.

Proc sets and CP are the lag-cancer of this game.

In addition to my earlier post, in PvP we need no CP, no procs as well. So even if you wear the proc set, the 5th piece gets cancelled out of the damage calculations. If you wear a standard set, where the 5th piece provides a simple additive bonus, then that is taken into account.

I suspect those two moves alone would remove so much lag it doesn't bear thinking about.

ZOS made a mistake in the first place by introducing the proc sets. They really now need to remove all procs and turn the 5th pieces into a simple additive bonus again.

Yakidafi

Before proc sets, before CP, we had lag. CP has already been ruled out by ZOS btw. Spam is still the same.

LiquidPony

I don't buy the "it's an MMO, it's harder!" excuse. Not by a long shot.

Why do my 64-man BF1 games play smooth and my instanced ESO play (Maelstrom, 4-man dungeons/DSA, Trials) run at 12 FPS with horrible input lag?

IMO ZOS needs to do some serious thinking about what kind of client/server communication is necessary for players who are in PvP or instanced content. Or at least give us the option to shut down some of our integration with the larger world.

I've noticed that "notification" type stuff kicks up the lag another notch.

For instance, if someone joins or leaves one of my guilds while I'm in an instance, the game basically grinds to a halt for 1 or 2 seconds when the "PlayerOne has joined My Sweet Guild" notification pops. Same goes for weapon enchantments; when my enchant runs out, I get a horrendous lag spike right before it pops the little red weapon notification.

Nyghthowler

My personal opinion is because of the mega server set up we play on.
JMO

NukeAllTheThings

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

There is a line of thought amongst the devs that the CP system might be to blame.

If that is what they are thinking then they are as clueless as ever. Remember, this is the group that thought lag was caused by torch bugs and deer in cyrodiil. Lag was a major issue before CP system was even rolled out and it has been a major problem going back years.

Fallen_Ray

That's easy We're talking about Zenimax, a Bethesda company.