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Bomblade-Spinner's vs Clever Alchemist vs Other

Deadkrau5
Deadkrau5
Hey I'm wondering what the best second set to run a bomblade is, spinner's or clever alchemist? I'm going to also be running grothdar and vicious death.
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Clever is preferred for bombing.
  • Deadkrau5
    Deadkrau5
    Any particular reason for Clever alchemist over spinner's? The rudimentary testing I've done on the skeleton dummy shows I hit harder with spinner's, but there are probably other factors i'm not properly taking into account. Any insight is appreciated.
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Deadkrau5 wrote: »
    skeleton dummy

    Skeleton Dummy does not represent actual real players that you will find in Cyrodiil though(Battle Spirit plays a big part of this too!). I would find some friends, set up a duel, then try bombing your friends with them using different gears/buffs/debuffs and see what happens. That would be a much better way to feel out how bombing a player is in PvP.

    Spinner's 5pc bonus doesn't do much for Shielded opponents or people in low armor gear setups. Clever is specifically for stacking burst all at once, which is what bombing inherently is. You want Clever up and running as you set up Proxy/EoTS, it makes it super easy to do since all you need is a potion.
    Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on June 27, 2017 2:52PM
  • Kas
    Kas
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    Deadkrau5 wrote: »
    Any particular reason for Clever alchemist over spinner's? The rudimentary testing I've done on the skeleton dummy shows I hit harder with spinner's, but there are probably other factors i'm not properly taking into account. Any insight is appreciated.

    1) for spinners to hit harder you would need to have some flaws: no light armor pen/ no sharpenend / bad observation of crits. overly high damage prior the other two sets (e.g. not vicious death) or also count something like groth'dar which scales with penetration but not sd. Especially if you also get some form of reg in pvp (mundus, witchbrew food, glyphs?), this shifts the equilibrium more in favor of C/A. With typical builds, I think C/A should come out on top (when proc'd, ofc).

    2) the damage against targets with lower resist than the target skel (18k) is quickly spoiled by over penetration: many targets have less spell resist than sharpenend + light armor passive + spinner would penetrate. even more so on CP campaigns because penetration often is usually more appreciated than spellshield (because you only get one penetration passive but have to distribute your def against both, phys and magical). If you add major breach (e.g. form a stam warden), you can be near sure to over penetrate. you even would do so on the target skel.

    3) the life on c/a is very useful when running in groups. Sure, the extra max mag on spinner also gives you proper def through your own shields. but getting caught off-guard (especially in a negate), a life pool is more reliable. Of course, the magicka form spinner would be much better for duels / small-scale / sustained 1vX, but that's not what bombers do.

    4) C/A is useful when only complete on backbar. i.e. you can run a monster set on a two-staff setup. you can only do this with spinners if you run a DW frontbar.

    I'm not saying C/A is sooo much better. I'm just listing some points in favor of it, because you asked. I don't want to engage in the discussion about whatever is BIS.
    @bbu - AD/EU
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  • Deadkrau5
    Deadkrau5
    Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. I'll make a set of Clever Alchemist instead of overpay for spinner's.
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    Idk about anything anyone else tells you. There's 1 reason and 1 reason only that alch is better than spinners, damage shields.

    You won't get instantly kills with a destro bomb, if someone casts any type of group shield then spinners is harshly punished. Alchemist damage is always present.
  • Liam12548
    Liam12548
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    I run spinners on my bomber, and the top bombers in my guild (some one the best on our server) also run spinners (obviously VD frontbar on dual swords with grothdarr 2 piece, 5/1/1). Personally, I'd only switch to clever for soul tether bombing.
    React Faster - XB NA - Solo & Small scale PvP player - 100k+ AvA kills - Too many BG games to count until MMR made them unplayable
    1500+ CP
    Characters
    Heal R - AD Orc Templar - AR 50
    Flee's - AD Breton Blade - AR 35 - Played as both mag and stam
    Or Sorc - AD Breton Sorcerer - AR 36 - Played as both mag and stam
    Bearenstein - AD Nord Warden - AR 26 - Played as both mag and stam
    Heel'Ar - AD Nord Dragonknight - AR 25
    Your Dad's Dad - AD Breton Dragonknight - AR 23
    Second Class Citizen - DC Breton Templar - AR 25
    Necropheyele - AD Nord Necromancer - AR 12

    @ReactSlower - PC NA
    1000+ CP
    Characters
    New Server New Me - Nord Templar
    Temporary Name - Nord Necromancer
    Plays with Controller - Nord Warden
    Slow Sorc - Nord Sorcerer
    H'eh - Khajiit Nightblade
    Noxifier - Nord Dragonknight

    Content
    Solo Outnumbered Midyear Mayhem - Stamplar & Stamsorc - PC NA

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=L-sTYbcPTIA
  • DarkDeller
    Vd, grothdat n bsw?
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I run spinners on my bomber, and the top bombers in my guild (some one the best on our server) also run spinners (obviously VD frontbar on dual swords with grothdarr 2 piece, 5/1/1). Personally, I'd only switch to clever for soul tether bombing.

    And when you bomb, is it alone or is it multiple bombers hitting a groups back line while your group engages them?

    I found I did more damage with spinners but 1 barrier cast was often enough to ensure the bomb failed. I was bombing solo though.

    Also, nobody mentioning Kena as an option over groth confuses me. Groth is certainly stronger in no CP, but the burst gained from Kena is insane
    Edited by Lexxypwns on July 4, 2017 1:55PM
  • Liam12548
    Liam12548
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I run spinners on my bomber, and the top bombers in my guild (some one the best on our server) also run spinners (obviously VD frontbar on dual swords with grothdarr 2 piece, 5/1/1). Personally, I'd only switch to clever for soul tether bombing.

    And when you bomb, is it alone or is it multiple bombers hitting a groups back line while your group engages them?

    I found I did more damage with spinners but 1 barrier cast was often enough to ensure the bomb failed. I was bombing solo though.

    Also, nobody mentioning Kena as an option over groth confuses me. Groth is certainly stronger in no CP, but the burst gained from Kena is insane

    I mean today with all the heals going off in open world between the templars and wardens, solo bombing is a new challenge. I do both. For solo bombing, tether can be the better option in many situations because it allows you to put as much damage as possible down right off the bat, which In turn gives you more kill AND escape potential. Destro ult is often a suicide type bomb, because it's duration is longer and requires you to stay in the thick of it. As for the kena thing, often the best and most beneficial bombs you get will be from stealth on a large group piled on a door, breach, resource, etc. Having to throw two light attacks would totally throw off your rotation, and the kena buff wouldn't last long enough for a whole destro bomb. Kena also increases ult cost by 20%, so destro ult will cost 50 ish ult more.
    React Faster - XB NA - Solo & Small scale PvP player - 100k+ AvA kills - Too many BG games to count until MMR made them unplayable
    1500+ CP
    Characters
    Heal R - AD Orc Templar - AR 50
    Flee's - AD Breton Blade - AR 35 - Played as both mag and stam
    Or Sorc - AD Breton Sorcerer - AR 36 - Played as both mag and stam
    Bearenstein - AD Nord Warden - AR 26 - Played as both mag and stam
    Heel'Ar - AD Nord Dragonknight - AR 25
    Your Dad's Dad - AD Breton Dragonknight - AR 23
    Second Class Citizen - DC Breton Templar - AR 25
    Necropheyele - AD Nord Necromancer - AR 12

    @ReactSlower - PC NA
    1000+ CP
    Characters
    New Server New Me - Nord Templar
    Temporary Name - Nord Necromancer
    Plays with Controller - Nord Warden
    Slow Sorc - Nord Sorcerer
    H'eh - Khajiit Nightblade
    Noxifier - Nord Dragonknight

    Content
    Solo Outnumbered Midyear Mayhem - Stamplar & Stamsorc - PC NA

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=L-sTYbcPTIA
  • Brutusmax1mus
    Brutusmax1mus
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    My best success has been bsw/ spinners. Throw on a shield before you start.
  • laksikus
    laksikus
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    I still prefer clever alchemist + willpower + vicious death.
    And i also prefer soul tether over destro ulti.
    Its just so much more burst damage, with destro ulti, just one person has to react fast enough, and your bomb fails.

    Barrier, healing ult, springs, harness.

    I can kill nearly every group with it, if they dont all have 30k+ health
  • Benn G x
    Benn G x
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    laksikus wrote: »
    I still prefer clever alchemist + willpower + vicious death.
    And i also prefer soul tether over destro ulti.
    Its just so much more burst damage, with destro ulti, just one person has to react fast enough, and your bomb fails.

    Barrier, healing ult, springs, harness.

    I can kill nearly every group with it, if they dont all have 30k+ health

    This pretty much, willpower alchemist and VD is the best combination for bombing, and I too find tether better than Destro ult
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I run spinners on my bomber, and the top bombers in my guild (some one the best on our server) also run spinners (obviously VD frontbar on dual swords with grothdarr 2 piece, 5/1/1). Personally, I'd only switch to clever for soul tether bombing.

    And when you bomb, is it alone or is it multiple bombers hitting a groups back line while your group engages them?

    I found I did more damage with spinners but 1 barrier cast was often enough to ensure the bomb failed. I was bombing solo though.

    Also, nobody mentioning Kena as an option over groth confuses me. Groth is certainly stronger in no CP, but the burst gained from Kena is insane

    I mean today with all the heals going off in open world between the templars and wardens, solo bombing is a new challenge. I do both. For solo bombing, tether can be the better option in many situations because it allows you to put as much damage as possible down right off the bat, which In turn gives you more kill AND escape potential. Destro ult is often a suicide type bomb, because it's duration is longer and requires you to stay in the thick of it. As for the kena thing, often the best and most beneficial bombs you get will be from stealth on a large group piled on a door, breach, resource, etc. Having to throw two light attacks would totally throw off your rotation, and the kena buff wouldn't last long enough for a whole destro bomb. Kena also increases ult cost by 20%, so destro ult will cost 50 ish ult more.

    Well, I proc Kena after I drop my destro ult usually. I don't always destro bomb, but I prefer Kena when I do.

    I'm a solo/duo bomber when I bomb(less often now because of all the heals you mentioned). Basically I find that if I'm wearing spinners and my bomb works then it's insanely successful and I'm much more likely to get a wipe, conversely I'm also much more likely to get 1-2 kills because some zerglings just barely managed to smash his barrier key fast enough. With alch I almost never get that pristine bomb where you're piling 10+ bodies, but I also never kill only 1-2, I'll pretty consistently kill 4-8 people.

    Because of this, when solo I prefer alch, it leaves me in a compromised position sometimes, but more often than not ill en up with more kills. But man, when spinners+Kena+VD bomb goes smoothly it's a thing of beauty
  • TheStealthDude
    TheStealthDude
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    Does bombing in No-CP vs CP make a difference to anyones' preferred setup?
  • Nutshotz
    Nutshotz
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    Well I've learned from bombing from these scenarios

    When I'm with a group : I use grothdar , VD , spinners, either a destro or tether. Which ever the group lead decides.

    When I'm solo I run 2 different builds. Clever, VD, will power or clever , VD, grothdar.

    But with the new changes to grothdar I think I'll be running clever, will power, VD.
  • BaByDontHurtMe
    BaByDontHurtMe
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    Oblivion Enchat for extra cheese or nah ?
  • a1i3nz
    a1i3nz
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    I went from running vd/alchemist/willpower to trying grothdar and don't regret it. Seems to work just as well or better depending on the situation.
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