Should (Damage) Shields take extra damage from lightning attacks? (Old)

Avran_Sylt

Please See: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356195/should-there-be-a-debuff-similar-in-function-to-defile-that-reduces-damage-shield-strength

Essentially making (Damage) Shields 'Weak' to a particular element. This is just speculation. (Annulment/Hardened Ward/etc)

HatchetHaro

Nah

Would make sorcs way too unbalanced.

bottleofsyrup

Nah

There are already ways to do extra damage to damage shields, such as Shattering Blows in CP and Shield Breaker. Daedric damage enchantments (decrease health glyphs) ignore the shield entirely and go straight for the target's HP.

leepalmer95

Nah

Why?

What will this change exactly the only source of lightning dmg is some sorc skills and destro ult...?


I feel like you just throw out stupid ideas without no thought behind them, it's getting annoying.

IcyDeadPeople

they already do from shield breaker heavy lighting attacks, but I think this is a bug (hope it's not intended)

Avran_Sylt

@leepalmer95

Well, think of lightning as magicka disruption. In Skyrim Shock Damage saps a targets magicka.

Currently for DW the standard for PvP is Disease (for the Diseased Proc Chance) and Poison (For the DoT). This beginning to be usurped by the flat damage of Oblivion damage just about everywhere.

If shields took bonus damage from Lightning, depending on how it functions, it could be the 'shield shredding' element. Meaning that Sorcs are innately good against one another's shields and players can slot Shock Damage enchantments on their weapons for that extra umph against shielded opponents.

Sorc and Desto are not the only sources of lighting damage. There are Enchantments and sets as well. Think sets like thunderbugs carapace, or storm knights plate. This could be expanded further with future sets.

I just assume that this kind of thought process is standard among forum goers. If it is indeed not, remember, you can always choose not to read this.

Stannum

Let's buff sorcs even more?
Nice try.
I have another sugestions let melee atacks ignore shields.

Enslaved

Nah

OP's question is, should sorcerer be even more op, being the class with so many lightning based skills.

Kurkikohtaus

Other

Nothing wrong with the concept, but then it would open up a whole can of worms. All kinds of damage would have to have all kinds of different effects in different situations against different things, not to mention that there could also be differences between, swords, maces, axes etc.

If ZOS were to single out one, they might as well address them all and then things would get complicated and probably unbalanced.

Avran_Sylt

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the concept, but then it would open up a whole can of worms. All kinds of damage would have to have all kinds of different effects in different situations against different things, not to mention that there could also be differences between, swords, maces, axes etc.

If ZOS were to single out one, they might as well address them all and then things would get complicated and probably unbalanced.

A fair enough of a point. And it's probably true that they'd never consider Crush/Slash/Pierce damage for melee weapons. Would make the game a bit too complicated for the general audience.

Avran_Sylt

Enslaved wrote: »

OP's question is, should sorcerer be even more op, being the class with so many lightning based skills.

That'd be their niche, though it is true that sorcs likely need to be toned down a bit. Their single target damage is a bit too high for the amount of cleave damage they've got.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yeah

Would rather shields just have better prioritisation. Healing ward always on-top so you can't protect it with shields.

KochDerDamonen

Other

This game already handles elemental weakness poorly. Players tend to have nigh macimized resists, or as close to none as they can get. Vampire&Werewolf players are the only things with a noticeable damage type weakness. Most PvE mobs might technically have one, but it's the easiest thing to disregard and miss about them

I'm okay with this idea, if danage types become more impactful on the whole.

Phica_Lovic

Nah

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Why?

What will this change exactly the only source of lightning dmg is some sorc skills and destro ult...?


I feel like you just throw out stupid ideas without no thought behind them, it's getting annoying.

Agreed.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@leepalmer95

Well, think of lightning as magicka disruption. In Skyrim Shock Damage saps a targets magicka.

Currently for DW the standard for PvP is Disease (for the Diseased Proc Chance) and Poison (For the DoT). This beginning to be usurped by the flat damage of Oblivion damage just about everywhere.

If shields took bonus damage from Lightning, depending on how it functions, it could be the 'shield shredding' element. Meaning that Sorcs are innately good against one another's shields and players can slot Shock Damage enchantments on their weapons for that extra umph against shielded opponents.

Sorc and Desto are not the only sources of lighting damage. There are Enchantments and sets as well. Think sets like thunderbugs carapace, or storm knights plate. This could be expanded further with future sets.

I just assume that this kind of thought process is standard among forum goers. If it is indeed not, remember, you can always choose not to read this.

This isn't Skyrim. Can't mix balance with Skyrim lightning roleplay.

Balance > roleplay

Sheey

Nah

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

they already do from shield breaker heavy lighting attacks, but I think this is a bug (hope it's not intended)

Its a bug and its about getting adressed within the next 2 minor patches

Magıc

Nah

Zos wouldn't be able to implement something like this so no.

Sheey

Nah

Stupid ideas are stupid I guess?

Draqone

Nah

Lightning dmg if anything needs a nerf.

ofSunhold

Nah

Magsorcs don't need any more damage than they already have against other players. Do you think these things through at all before you poll?

laksikus

Nah

You can just use shield breaker with lightning staff

KeiruNicrom

Other

Frost attacks. Give cold damage a decent use beyond tanky effects

Feanor

I can't get the obsession with shields some people have. But then those are the same people who cry about everything they can't kill with 2 button presses.

SilverWF

Nah

Someone played Defiance too much...

MrBetadine

Nah

Shields are wooden in this game

Reverb

Nah

Neither Sorcs nor Lightning staves need a buff like this. It would be terrible for the game. Just awful.

Merlin13KAGL

Nah

No. Armor doesn't work that way, why should shields? Besides, shields already take full, unmitigated damage.

You really think you'd take less damage wearing full plate when someone hits you with a million volts?

If you're wanting adjustment, adjust armor. 1:1 Physical Resist to Spell Resist for each armor point was lazy design.

Jamini

Nah

Here is my response:

"What? Why? No way."

This would make magcika sorcs even more strong (and frankly, they are already the best class in the game.) and provide absolutely nothing of value.

If anything, shields that aren't Healing Ward, Dampen Magicka, and Conjured Ward should be made not-*** first.

Avran_Sylt

@ofSunhold

ofSunhold wrote: »

Magsorcs don't need any more damage than they already have against other players. Do you think these things through at all before you poll?

Yeah, I just don't include it in the main post. I've learned that walls of text tend to tune people out. better to light a fire with something simple that people can easily grasp and get knee-jerk reactions to. Much better at getting discussion going/ Getting more ideas out in the open. The more peeps that dislike the initial post, the more they feel like they're in the majority, and the more they feel comfortable sharing their opinion. It's also why polls tend to see more interaction.

@KeiruNicrom

KeiruNicrom wrote: »

Frost attacks. Give cold damage a decent use beyond tanky effects

That.. could be interesting. not sure how it'd function lore wise. It'd make Warden tanks particularly useful against shield stacking sorcs.

Reverb wrote: »

Neither Sorcs nor Lightning staves need a buff like this. It would be terrible for the game. Just awful.

Care to elaborate? Perhaps it might deal with how the Concussed Status effect currently applies Minor Vulnerability on targets? Essentially allowing lightning staff users to gain an 8% AoE damage increase alongside an innate proc chance to deal a further 8% more damage to targets? Perhaps this could be addressed by creating a Minor Debuff to shields (in vein to minor defile), and instead having concussion proc that onto enemies instead of minor vulnerability?

@Merlin13KAGL

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

No. Armor doesn't work that way, why should shields? Besides, shields already take full, unmitigated damage.

You really think you'd take less damage wearing full plate when someone hits you with a million volts?

If you're wanting adjustment, adjust armor. 1:1 Physical Resist to Spell Resist for each armor point was lazy design.

well, kinda full. You can't crit on shields. Meaning you're unable to hit above that base damage. (and also mitigating the bonus set effects of sets such as Archer's Mind and NB passives).

In terms of armor, I agree. Heavy armor should give more physical Resistance, and less Spell Resistance. Light armor gives more Spell Resistance (something about less inhibiting to your natural energy or some shite) but less Physical Resistance, and Medium armor is average on both.

@Jamini

Jamini wrote: »

Here is my response:

"What? Why? No way."

This would make magcika sorcs even more strong (and frankly, they are already the best class in the game.) and provide absolutely nothing of value.

If anything, shields that aren't Healing Ward, Dampen Magicka, and Conjured Ward should be made not-*** first.

Heh, like what. Allow health based shields to have morphs that scale off of max magicka? (Templar in particular, DK following close behind) Have a normalized Resource/ShieldPower Ratio across all non-% based shields? (Annulment having a 0.33 Mag/ShieldPower Ratio, DK Obsidian Shield having a 0.30 Hp/ShieldPower Ratio (Self, 0.10 for allies), Sorc Conjured Ward having a 0.36 Mag/ShieldPower Ration which can be increased to a 0.48 Mag/ShieldPower Ratio through Hardened Ward)

ofSunhold

Nah

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@ofSunhold

ofSunhold wrote: »

Magsorcs don't need any more damage than they already have against other players. Do you think these things through at all before you poll?

Yeah, I just don't include it in the main post. I've learned that walls of text tend to tune people out. better to light a fire with something simple that people can easily grasp and get knee-jerk reactions to. Much better at getting discussion going/ Getting more ideas out in the open. The more peeps that dislike the initial post, the more they feel like they're in the majority, and the more they feel comfortable sharing their opinion. It's also why polls tend to see more interaction.

I see. Thanks for explaining that, it's going to save me some time.

josiahva

Nah

No thanks, I dont need my DK PvE tank nerfed anymore. ZoS nerfed it enough the last patch because the meta happened to catch up with my tank build I was playing for a year or more, its already been nerfed enough, I dont care what issues you face in PvP, learn to play around them and stop trying to nerf everyone else.

Jamini

Nah

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Heh, like what. Allow health based shields to have morphs that scale off of max magicka? (Templar in particular, DK following close behind) Have a normalized Resource/ShieldPower Ratio across all non-% based shields? (Annulment having a 0.33 Mag/ShieldPower Ratio, DK Obsidian Shield having a 0.30 Hp/ShieldPower Ratio (Self, 0.10 for allies), Sorc Conjured Ward having a 0.36 Mag/ShieldPower Ration which can be increased to a 0.48 Mag/ShieldPower Ratio through Hardened Ward)

That's not a bad idea, and it has a precedent in the Coagulating Dragon Blood change/fix. It's not what I was thinking, but the idea does have merit.

Personally I would prefer the ratios for health-based shields be adjusted upwards slightly. Very few players want to stack health like mag users can and do stack mag. Stacking magicka for sorcerers is easy and solid tactic to use to increase their damage, sustain (by virtue of being able to cast more before running dry.), and defenses, while stacking health on a DK or Templar effectively turns your character into a wet noodle that will run out of resources in one or two spell casts. Also do remember that most magicka-based shields have powerful secondary effects (Magicka return on Harness Magicka, The heal on Healing Ward, sorc passives on Hardened Ward)

A "Tanky" DK that isn't focusing health will have 29-35k health in cyrodiil, that equates to a 5-7k shield. A non-tank DK will have a shield that is about half that for themselves with Igneous Shield. Those values are cut in third for allied shields. An average sorc can have 40k+ magicka easily, resulting in a 10k hardened ward, a 7k approx harness, and a 7k approx healing ward. All while maintaining long range, good mobility with streak, and high damage by virtue of their magic. Now, a magDK can still get 14k of that, but overall the difference between class shields is pretty stark. This is why Igneous Shield is really only ever really slotted for the Major Mending buff.


*Edit: I also nearly forgot. Healing ward gains scaling if the target's health is low.