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Thoughts on Frost Staff Tanking

Snibbers
Snibbers
Soul Shriven
I realise that there are old threads on this, but I wanted to give my thoughts on frost staff tanking as well, having levelled a frost staff warden tank. I've done all normal dungeons and a fair few veteran dungeons with great success, but no trials. Keep in mind that I am purely speaking from a PvE point of view.

Putting it into a bit of context, this is the build I've been working towards and with, having success in veteran dungeons:
esoacademy.com/builds/magicka-warden-frost-staff-tank/

First, and very importantly, I just want to say that I hope you decide to keep frost staff for tanking, because it is a very different way of tanking that is very fun! I've been having a blast with it and if the quirks are worked out, it could even be viable.

A lot of the issues that I've experienced have already been highlighted across different threads on the forum and they are:
  • Taunting with the frost staff is too slow. I really like it being an option and it's useful in many cases, but if you have to tank several bosses it really eats away at your block time. I imagine it being fatal in trials. It could be solved by putting the taunt on bashing and turning that into magicka cost as well, putting it on destructive touch or making heavy attacks with frost staves faster, while lowering damage (which might also make some of the heavy attack enhancing sets viable).
  • You lose a piece of equipment, making it impossible to get a 5, 5, 2 armour set setup. Ontop of that you also lose armour and a piece of equipment that has a large enchantment for 900ish health.
Those are the two primary issues that I've experienced and especially for trials I imagine they are deal breakers compared to the sword+shield. You lose quite a bit by choosing a frost staff over a shield. In order to accept that you lose the 12th piece of equipment and its bonuses, you'd expect the frost staff to compensate with something else that makes tanking viable in some other way, but it currently doesn't.

What it does offer, in my experience, is the following:
  • It encourages ranged tanking without any heavy magicka / stamina cost from inner fire (and morphs). It can be very useful to grab aggro from a distance.
  • A free ranged taunt, albeit a slow one.
  • Using heavy attacks so much offers great resource management.
  • Using heavy attacks so much offers opportunities to proc effects caused by heavy attacks. Like the Lotus Blossom heal and it offers opportunities to use heavy attack enhancing armour sets.
  • A small damage shield from heavy attacks. This is nice enough and seems to have been an attempt to compensate for not being able to block all the time, but it really doesn't feel like that significant a reward.
  • Magicka cost on blocking. I love this and this makes pure magicka tanks possible.
To me, ESO is all about different possibilities and choices. Frost staff has finally offered another way of tanking and I've had a lot of fun with it. I really want to see it kept for tanking and for it to improve and become as viable, in its own way, as sword / shield. I like how different it is to tank with and I'd love to see it compensate for the loss of a shield in a way that it doesn't just feel like a two-handed sword/shield, but as something else. I don't have the answer, but I'm sure it's out there!
  • zcripturez
    Good to see someone here enjoys frost staff tanking as much as I do. I made this Tank / Healer build a week ago using frost staff and have been loving it ever since. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkBZhstU17k&t=123s
  • Magdalina
    Magdalina
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    You're also not providing the armor/spell resistance debuff by using frost staff taunt, which is very, very sad for your dps ; ( Well depending on group composition, Drain provided by healer could compensate for the spell resistance debuff but stamina dps stay screwed. Just saying.
    Edited by Magdalina on June 25, 2017 7:03PM
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Frost staffs are useless, crappy change no one uses.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Stannum
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    The only point of frost staff tanking is great resource division. It's not goog for pure tanks but is awesome for DPS-tanks and PvP. 1h&shield tanking is better in almost all situations but it has one weakness block, rolldodge, bash and break free cost one resourse. Tanking with frost staff on high regen stamina build gives you oppotunity to use roll\bash\breakfree without thinking of resources. Its very useful in PvP (where you can permablock, dodge, attack and break free at the same time) and allows to build high DPS aggressive tanks for PvE (they might will not be good for vet trials, but in pledges they are stronger then classic tanks) The only problem is that not every class is sutable for such builds (warden is ideal, NB is good, but other classes have not enought sutable stamina class skills).
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Its pretty much failed as main tank and as DPS.

    Currently with similar fate as previously were used as dps,

    Few enjoying, many ignoring (including me). I do lot of tanking as i like this role but ice tank is a mess!

    I found, biggest downfall comparing S&B are:
    lacking required tanking skill & passive in Destro Skill line, losing extra item slot, resistance (shield resistance buff with CP passive) + enchantment glyph buff, ultimate (which is like doing DPS).

    Weapons like VMA, VDSA which are still DPS focused and not a help in tanking at all!

    Good sets that boost ice tank performance, also some racial passives help ice tanks can and do some support!

    Truly its a mess under current situation!

    No one like a tank dying frequenlty in veteran trials.

    I would again reiterate, Its a Mess!
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on June 26, 2017 9:32AM
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Stannum wrote: »
    The only point of frost staff tanking is great resource division. It's not goog for pure tanks but is awesome for DPS-tanks and PvP. 1h&shield tanking is better in almost all situations but it has one weakness block, rolldodge, bash and break free cost one resourse. Tanking with frost staff on high regen stamina build gives you oppotunity to use roll\bash\breakfree without thinking of resources. Its very useful in PvP (where you can permablock, dodge, attack and break free at the same time) and allows to build high DPS aggressive tanks for PvE (they might will not be good for vet trials, but in pledges they are stronger then classic tanks) The only problem is that not every class is sutable for such builds (warden is ideal, NB is good, but other classes have not enought sutable stamina class skills).

    With Morrowind tanking meta is changed to stack health and cost reduction.

    After having enough cost reduction, i do not think u even need frost staff on backbar to generate stamina.

    It can get u killed easily while tanking boss like warrior (vet)
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on June 26, 2017 9:39AM
  • Stannum
    Stannum
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    It can get u killed easily while tanking boss like warrior (vet)
    Looks like you have not read my post
    Stannum wrote: »
    they might will not be good for vet trials, but in pledges they are stronger then classic tanks


  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Stannum wrote: »

    It can get u killed easily while tanking boss like warrior (vet)
    Looks like you have not read my post
    Stannum wrote: »
    they might will not be good for vet trials, but in pledges they are stronger then classic tanks


    I was saying more in reference to end game pve contents.

    For most of vet dungeons my sorc ward is enough for tanking/dps
  • esoub17_ESO30
    esoub17_ESO30
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    Frost staff tanking is a good backbar option, even in vet trials. The mit differences on fights that actually matter is minimal.

    The Downside
    • -900 phys/mag armor (that's only 1.5% mit if you aren't capped anyway).
    • -15% block mit on ranged attacks (no one really cares).
    • -8% block dmg redux if you would slot Absorb Magica on your backbar (most don't double-bar AM).
    • -A set bonus slot (This one actually matters but can be minimize with proper gearing. For example, loosing the Alkosh bonus while on the backbar has almost zero downside).
    The Upside
    • +Block with Mag while regenerating Stam (This is huge and if used properly, drastically reduces the need for resources to be fed to the tank, allowing those to go to DPS).
    • +Ranged interrupt (This is hugely useful).
    • +Ranged Light and Heavy attack option, which you don't have double baring S&B.
    • +AE snare/Root (Good replacement for Talons when you need the CC. It's cheaper and lasts longer).
    • +Ranged taunt that restores magica instead of costing (it's slow so not a replacement for Inner Fire, but useful when you're tapped out).
    Note: The inability to HA/restore without taunting can be a problem. You can swap to a different resto, but then you loose the CCs. Respecing to drop the passive shouldn't be required. There needs to be some sort of toggle for the taunt that does not use up an ability slot. A smaller restore at half charge would also work.
    Edited by esoub17_ESO30 on June 26, 2017 11:26AM
  • raj72616a
    raj72616a
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    i tried frost staff tanking on my health DK shield tank.

    igneous shield should be up almost 100% in combat, so damage resistance is irrelevant. blocking is also mostly irrelevant. (for newbies: damage shield always eat full damage, physical resistance, spell resistance and blocking do nothing.)

    what i gain is that:
    - i can heavy attack to restore magicka after spamming igneous shield
    - i can taunt at range at no cost
    - i gain free damage shield with the taunt
    - i can save all my stam for only interrupt and brwaking free
    - i can provide elemental drain

    i still have sword and shield on off bar, for heroic slash to regen ultimate, and for pierce armor in case i need to taunt quickly. but i stay mostly on staff bar for easy resources. major fracture and major breach are provided through Noxious Breath and Elemental Drain.
    frost staff taunt is terribly slow, but i hope that spamming a 8.5k damage shield on allies can make up for the fact that i don't grab aggro of the trash mobs.
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    Frost staff tanking is a fun novelty in noncompetitive PvE situations (and can be occasionally useful in PvP). I haven't seen it be more than that.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • dusk194
    dusk194
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    I tried it for a short time as a mDK tank (as my assumption is that it was aimed a magic based tanks like some DK's or Warden). I found that blocking outcompeted my resources for other mitigation abilities and left me repeatedly relying on SnB back bar. While the free taunt took entirely too long to be effective on anything more than a solo mob.

    The real shame is that by adding the taunt you have negated it's effectiveness as a DPS weapon (you need to heavy attack with the resource changes). Not that it was strong to begin with, but it's a nice option. The frost staff as a whole is only suitable to solo content or PvP. Adding the tanking mechanics just made it a weaker option. If they wanted to do it right, they should have added a 1-handed magic weapon to add to a sheild or given an entirely magic themed tank weapon ( with skills and passives).

    Currently it's a fun idea and a bandaid for Magic-tanks.
  • WalksonGraves
    WalksonGraves
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    If only weighted existed in a form that actually reduced attack speed so I could use it on my backbar and ditch inner fire. Oh well.
  • zeus1gdsm
    zeus1gdsm
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    They could make it viable for tanking in a non competitive setting if the changed the taunt aspect to the LA kept the Ha as shield and resource regeneration.

    Still not gonna be the optimal or min max. But it would at least allow some variety and replace inner fire.

    I currently frost tank on my warden... Staff is back bar. And I've almost never used the ha as it's quicker to just run over and Pierce the enemy.
  • Autolycus
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    Magdalina wrote: »
    You're also not providing the armor/spell resistance debuff by using frost staff taunt, which is very, very sad for your dps ; ( Well depending on group composition, Drain provided by healer could compensate for the spell resistance debuff but stamina dps stay screwed. Just saying.

    This is a big part of it. Warden has the luxury of using Subterranean Assault for Major Breach and Major Fracture, and good timing allows for them both to hit simultaneously. So, in theory (and in practice too, but not always) you can open the fight with Fracture/Breach on most/all enemies and taunt a boss or threatening add without missing a step. As the fight progresses, you lose this advantage.

    As far as constructive feedback for frost staves goes, the two main drawbacks to it are the aforementioned "slower" application of debuffs (or as I would put it, less efficient) and the loss of set bonuses/enchants. We see already that a Warden has the best time of making up lost ground by having a single skill that does the rest of Pierce Armor for us, but other classes don't have that ability. NB comes close with Mark Target, but it's limited to a single target. Next in line is a DK, using Noxious Breath for Fracture but still having to rely on Ele Drain for Breach. In trials, losing this efficiency is a big deal on some fights.

    Consider for a moment the implications of taking an extra second or two on every rotation, assuming you lead with taunt and follow with debuffs. That's a second or two every 12s or so that an enemy is taking less damage. In dungeons, it makes little difference, but in 5 minute fight in trials, or a 15-20 minute fight in HoF, that damage adds up very quickly. Any fight that has a dps race mechanic notices this loss of damage, and will generally punish the group for it by way of extra adds or mechanics that, in some cases, result in a group wipe. Combine that with a loss of dps from not having a 5th set bonus (like if you were using Torug's Pact or Alkosh), and you start to see a pretty big discrepancy at the bottom line.

    I like your idea of having taunt with a staff tied to bash. It's a unique take and helps to bring the staff into line in terms of efficiency. One major drawback to this that I can see is when you actually need to bash for an interrupt. In a single-tank setting it wouldn't matter, so for dungeons it makes no difference. But in a trial where there are often 2 tanks and sometimes aggro is traded, bashing an enemy and then having them be taunted by another tank might result in a forced loss of aggro that can wipe the group too.
  • Sarevok_Anchev
    Sorry to resurrect this thread. Has anything changed that may make Frost Staff tanking viable?
  • idk
    idk
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    Frost staff tanking is a mere novelty. It’s not optimized for serious tanking.

    Heck, serious tanks that back bar a staff for the ranged interupt don’t put points into passives.
  • keevil111
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    The idea is great, but Wardens can frost tank just fine without the frost staff. One hand and shield is a better use of resources, IMO, getting a taunt and a debuff at once.

    The shield proc from frost staff passive is weak. I agree frost staff should be weaker than fire or shock dps wise, but they need to bring it back to be a damage dealing weapon.

    PS4 NA
  • Artim_X
    Artim_X
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    It really depends on the content you want to play. If you build for it with a heavy attack damage rotation it can be very fun in normal and vanilla vet dungeons where damage shields are sufficient for keeping you alive. Other than that I wouldn't bring a frost staff tank to a vet dlc dungeon or a trial where a traditional tank would do a better job at buffing allies, debuffing enemies, maintaining aggro, and staying alive. Unless significant changes are made I think frost staff tanking will always be niche.
    (AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanist
    Electric-Burn/Stun
    https://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gif
    • Damage Dealing Build.
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Inferno/Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Rage of the Ursauk jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build), and Power Overload.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Crushing Shock/Storm Pulsar, Streak, Flame/Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Fire/Storms, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build) and Fiery/Thunderous Rage.
    Electric-Heal
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    • My Healer Build.
    • Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
    Electric-Ward
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    • My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
    • Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Mother Ciannait's (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Max Mag Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), CP restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and CP ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
    Electric-Vamp
    https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact for regular and NoCP build/Oblivion's Foe for dot build (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable. Max Mag Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Max Mag Enchants). Knight Slayer/Pariah jewelry/Plaguebreak for dot build (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant for regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build. Sharpened for dot build)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Empowered Ward, and Shatter Soul.
    Dawnfang
    https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gif
    • My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that only utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (Infused/shock enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward, and Crescent Sweep.
    Duskfang
    https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on head and everything else Magicka Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Max Health Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant/Stealth-Draining Poison IX), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with Spell Damage Enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1:Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver (Shatter Soul).
    PvE Starter Gear
    https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gif
    • Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
    • Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
    Race
    https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gif
    • High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
    Mundus Stones
    https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gif
    • PvP: The Lover for penetration when playing a sorc or temp.
    • PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
    • PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
    Current Champion Points
    https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gif
    • DPS Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Thaumaturge, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
    • PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvE Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvP Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    Favorite Foods and Potions
    https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif
    • Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
    • Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
    • Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
    • Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
  • Eso101rus
    Eso101rus
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    Frost or lightning staff on back bar tank, infused crusher glyph, aoe crusher uptime? Yeah real disaster, or maybe people are not thinking out of the box enough.
  • SickDuck
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    Sorry to resurrect this thread. Has anything changed that may make Frost Staff tanking viable?

    The main improvement is staves are giving 2 set bonuses now, making it possible to wear 5-5-2. Apart from that it is still a niche setup that can be fun for dungeons but not vet trials.

    I’ve created a frost tank setup on my Magblade recently and I enjoy it so far. The main purpose of this character is to be able to transform from full DD to a tank capable doing vet pledges (incl dlc) within a PUG. Even in the middle of the dungeon if situation demands it. It is fun but still relies on SnB backbar to apply Puncture and occasionally for stamina gain. In some fights it is also required to slot Inner Fire for fast ranged taunt.

    Bottomline is, I think it gives some nice options for magicka players to help out with tanking. It can ease the queuing issues with GF without the abusive fake tank playstyle.
    Holdviola - Khira'de Regalo - Lélekvadász - Used To Be An Adventurer - Zetor - Does-Not-Give-A-Duck - Lord Sugar - Tenar Arha - Da'rinka - Violent Moon - Extreme Runner
  • Riptide
    Riptide
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    idk wrote: »
    Frost staff tanking is a mere novelty. It’s not optimized for serious tanking.

    Heck, serious tanks that back bar a staff for the ranged interupt don’t put points into passives.

    Yep.

    The Snowflake build.

    Extremely niche. I can see lightning staff more often than ice. Thats pretty situational too in my opinion.

    You don’t want stuff that can be viable in certain situations. A tanks job is to be rock solid dependable in every situation, period. Not stuff that can work, but stuff that does work. Style points don’t count.
    Edited by Riptide on September 1, 2018 4:24PM
    Esse quam videri.
  • McCloskey10_5_13
    I find it very useful on back bar PUGing dungeons or thrown together normal trials as a warden because I can use it to block with magicka while my stamina regens if my healer isn't helping as much as I might like with synergies. Or if the fight is taking longer than expected due to lower dps, I can stand in red a little longer switching between blocking with stamina and blocking with magicka to try to keep the adds and boss in one spot a few extra seconds, and still have enough stamina to get out of dodge when I have to if I'm not getting the healing I need.

    Also, the extra lockdown from Blockade of Frost paired with Gripping Shards helps with CC a bit.

    I can't imagine it would be very helpful in coordinated groups where you have an idea of what to expect from a fight and from your group mates, but as someone who is still learning to Tank and doing it with random strangers, I think it has helped me survive in a few situations where we were all in over our heads.

    I think it would be irresponsible to not have S&B on you're other bar though. You're group mates, especially PUGs, are counting on you to debuff the boss with pierce armor and heroic slash, whether they realize it or not.
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
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    I have 0 issue with Frost Tanking in its current state.
    The hardest part of it is trying to find substitute for Fracture, which can be a pain since only 3 classes have means to substitute for it and all require stamina, except for Mark on NB but that only applies to 1 target at a time, which can technically be enough, depending on the fight, but is much less effective the more trash mobs come into play during a fight. Not to mention that Pierce Armor is much cheaper than the alternative options for it. Ofc, that only matters if there's stamina builds in your party that would need Fracture in the 1st place and if not, the loss of Fracture is inconsequential.

    Once the Fracture situation is dealt with, there's comes into play sustaining yourself. Unlike with SnB, Frost Staff requires the exact opposite of what you would build for, in that, while SnB use Magic Skills for buffing, healing, etc and would require that you build up High Stamina and Magic Regen, Frost Staff requires the exact opposite in that you need High Magic and Stamina Regen. You'll end up using abilities like Circle of Protection, Bone Shield and Vigor a lot more on a Frost Tank build than you would a SnB build, using your Magic almost primarily for Taunting with Inner Fire (or Heavy Attacking), Blocking attack and WoE to get back magic from E-Drain.

    It's honestly not hard at all to Tank with a Frost Staff, just requires more thought than SnB to pull off effectively and while its much harder than SnB, it's completely doable.
    Edited by Silver_Strider on September 4, 2018 8:35PM
    Argonian forever
  • Samsgaard
    Samsgaard
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    Sorry to resurrect this thread. Has anything changed that may make Frost Staff tanking viable?

    The original thread concerned full frost staff tanking (not merely frost staff on the back bar), so I assume that's what you're intending to resurrect.

    It's definitely a novelty build, especially when paired with high magicka and light armor. I converted one of my Sorcs to that build. Funny thing is, the blocking aspect of frost tanking mostly drops out with that build because you can stack shields to the heavens and only have to block the worst of the worst. It's very fun for world bosses. Someday I'll try it out in dungeons with accommodating friends; I'm sure it would work in most single-target fights.

    But at the moment, the people I know are happy to have one of my serious tanks along to quickly taunt and debuff multiple mobs and then have time to do other things like root, chain, etc. Some dungeons require that. And requirements or no, I wouldn't impose a novelty build on a PUG.
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