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• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – October 8, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/
Some controversies (PvP mostly)
GeorgeBlack
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1)Animation Cancelling makes combat fluid and reactive. How do you react to attacks that you don't see?
Zos created this combat system in order to provide fluid movements, so that players can react and not being locked in ACTION ANIMATIONS. This would help blocking or roll dodging or interrupting quickly when you need to.
Great stuff.... how do you react to something that u can't see? How do you block 5 hits in a second, landing on you 26k dmg before you even knew that the battle was on? How can you land an attack without losing all you HP in an instant? How do you reduce an Animation Cancellers HP when his min/maxed build sustains all his resources while he can burst at will (because of AC)?
People will be told "L2P". Is copying min/maxed builds the way we should learn to play a game? Or by getting experienced in battle? When new players get in Cyrodiil, they all go WHAT THE HELL. It isn't entertaining. Of course people have to learn to play their character and their role, and what mechanics they must use for THAT CLASS, but how many out of all of the players in EU/NA PC/Consoles said to hell with this, I will study what the streamers are doing, instead of enjoying their gaming experience? How many said to hell with this I'll just PvE, even though they would LOVE to PvP, because they just get owned within seconds, or because their enemies HP JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO GO LOWER THAN 50% BEFORE IT GETS FULL AGAIN.
The problem between new players and experienced players isn't the difference in Lv, CP, Gold gear set, and knowledge. It cannot be solved with no CP campaigns and stuff like that. The real difference between experienced and new players in PvP is that the combat system does not promote decision making and reaction. There is no reaction factor in which you based your combat system. It's about how quickly you can perform your rotation. It doesn't matter if the enemy is a tank or if he is a healer or if he is a brawler (do we even have roles in PvP?). Spam the same rotation on everyone and if they die good. If they don't, your min/maxed stamina build will have you ready for an attack if you run a little bit, OR if you use a magika min/maxed build as soon as you stack and heal you can attack again.
This is how I understood combat when I first started playing in Cyrodiil and IC, after I learned cancelling animations.
I see an enemy
I'll get my buffs up. If there is no time I will make time to get my buffs up
I'll CC him to waste his stamina and deal some dmg.
I will control the environment and put some DoTs on him, while making sure that my Magika Stamina and HP resources are all accessible.
If he is nuke mage I will deflect his missiles back at him at the correct moment.
I will try to corner him and use my ulty and a quick execute to kill him (because I am a stamDK)
*** no bro!!! That's not how you PvP u stupid noob. You gotta learn what buttons to mash and do it as quickly as you can and AC as perfectly as you can. Is he a tank? Don't worry about it, just burst him. If he doesn't die break LoS kai sustain.
Is he a damage dealer? burst him down and if he doesn't die break LoS and sustain and try again.
Is he a healer? burst him down and if he doesn't die break LoS, sustain and try again.
This problematic combat system gave rise to zerging, zerging gave rise to Detonation trains, then VD was the cure to spread people but it made stuff worse.
Then poisons were added to the game. Poisons meant to attack your enemies resources. What are my skills for then??
Lately there's been an attack on regeneration by @ZOS which gave rise to sets that support full sustain combined with a proc damage of 6-9k, WHICH YOU CAN STACK A FEW OF THEM. Ye you don't need ATK stats, your armor will do the attacking for you.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@Wrobel
Remove all these counter measures and make combat truly reactive.
Isolate normal attacks and bashes from SKILLS, and allow animations to be complete and visible so that we can react to them.
Tweak dodge and Block.
I am sure that if you go back to the basics and remove all the Counter-Measures that were aimed at bringing balance, but actually ruined combat that people will stop complaining about imbalances between classes.
Animation Cancelling is not a feature. It's a product of bad mechanics.
IT DOES NOT HELP IN PVE. DO YOU WANT TO INCREASE PVE DAMAGE OUTPUT? BOOST OUR STATS OR REDUCE MOB/BOSSES STATS
It does not promote fluid and reactive combat. You cannot react to what you don't see. You cannot fight an Animation Canceller in such small time windows when they can BURST or RUN AND SUSTAIN at WILL.
One thing that will never change is the love tryhards have for ranged nukers, so mass PvP will always be Call of Duty on and off the walls. As a fighter I can live with it. More glory for me.
2)Play as you like from a variety of skills to chose for your Class vs Reality and min/maxing
As a matter of fact you cannot even play without reading guides and watching videos for builds, if you want to be competitive in PvP. You must follow the metas and you must AC (and you must have top Ping.) Or you can ignore the AP farmers and Zerg. In EU Standard 30 days, Aldenmery Dominion has the biggest Zergs at most of the time so they win the campaigns.
I cannot understand why in the world after all this time @ZOS won't remove the damage bonus from Max Stamina and Max Magika. How can I play as I want when I know that if I use a few points on my Magika in order to create a unique playstyle, and use some of my oh-so-many untouched CLASS SKILLS, my swords will hit like wet noodles. How am I playing as I want when I am playing one of the few metas?
Not that utilities would help me with my decisions in combat, because like I noted above combat is all about how fast you can burst a target (no matter what class he is) and let your sustain protect you. Minimum skill/Maximum AC/sustain.
Remove bonus damage from Max resources. Decrease mobs/bosses stats OR increase our WD/SP Phys/Mag resistance just enough in order to avoid problems in PvE
PvE is so easy I really don't understand why people rage all the time. But anyway: in PvE if you are a stamDPS your use of Magika skills is very narrow and that upsets people that want to use some skills for utility. I guess the same goes for magDPS. Other than that personally I think that in trials you should focus on your role.If you wanna be a good stamDPS you must use DW( well I would love to see some more archers and some more 2h warriors) and 7 Medium armor. If you are magDPS you must use a staff and Light armor. If you are a tank you must use a Shield.
With some of my inrl friends we clear dungeons with hybrid builds. We all make sure not to die using magika and stamina, the healer is a Stamina 2h Templar with heavy armor and the tank doesn't use a shield. As soon as my mates reach veteran levels they will follow stricter builds. No more play as you like. Especially not in vet Trials
Again. Remove bonus damage from Max resources. Decrease mobs/bosses stats OR increase our WD/SP Phys/Mag resistances just enough to avoid problems in PvE.
3)Customize your Stats with CP, Traits, Foodbuffs, Glyphs vs Reality what did the number crunchers posted this month?
Today I finished changing my build. I replaced something and lost 931 Max Stamina and Gained 127 WD, without affecting any other pieces. My aim was to improve my dps. And I was thinking "did I gained damage by increasing my WD, or did I lost damage by decreasing my Max Stamina??" The other day I was thinking "Should I go impen or should I go nirn armor?"
The other day I was thinking, should I go for Penetration? or should I go for critical? Or maybe WD?
The other day I was thinking. Should I spend on Crit CP or should I spend on Mighty CP?
Should I go Max HP/Stam/regen or will I lose dps if I don't go Max HP/Stam foodbuff.
Should I go Impen or Well-Fitted. Or should I go Infused for more Max Stam, meaning more DPS. Or should I go Nirn to have protection from Phys/Mag damage??
To hell with it, lemme just open google and watch a vid or read a guide. Why bother testing ALL THESE STATS when I can just copy the metas.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno
There are way to many factors which are all give and take stats. There are way to many CP that boost aspects of DMG and aspects of Defence/sustain.
You need to remove all these little numbers and have fewer more solid Stats so that players can learn while they play instead of checking if they lost 5 OVERAL DMG or if they gained 10 dps.
Remove CP
Remove Penetration and let us focus on crit or WD (or improve the one that gives Ulty)
Remove some of the Armor Traits so that we have clear options. I for one would like to see Nirncrux more boosted, Reinforced giving ULT points. There's some meaningful variety.
@ZOS
Your game is about numbers and stats and not about action. It's all about the flavour of the month. These are my suggestions that would help with the issues that arise all the time because of 2 MAJOR ERRORS
1) Animation Cancelling
2) Max Stamina/Magika damage bonus
Fix those 2 and there will be a more enjoyable game.
Other players in this forum, I think that you all want to have the best time in the games you play. I believe that many ESO could be more enjoyable and I post not to hate on proctards or Mag Sorc and what not. I make suggestions after some though, that I believe that will make things better for most people. You may disagree. Be constructive and reasonable. I was played eso for about 6 months from 2015 and the only thing I liked was the questing. Even though I am a PvP gamer I find the combat mechanics too lame. So I left. I am back in here only because a couple of friends wanted us to try the game. I invited 5 more people within the last month and 2 of them subscribe to @ZOS. ZOS would be happy with 7 extra people spending on DLCs and what not. So before you just suggest that I should leave if I don't like ESO, well as soon as they realize how crap the combat system is we will all leave. Just like other people do. In the mean time, I just wanna make some suggestions. Maybe it's been said before. Maybe @ZOS doesn't care or maybe @ZOS can't afford to patch over and over and over. I am just posting hoping that these issues are known to them. I know that they won't go out and give an answer. It's a company that makes money. They have their way of doing things. This is my feedback.
[Edited title for clickbaiting]
Edited by ZOS_BillE on June 20, 2017 6:14PM Zos created this combat system in order to provide fluid movements, so that players can react and not being locked in ACTION ANIMATIONS. This would help blocking or roll dodging or interrupting quickly when you need to.
Great stuff.... how do you react to something that u can't see? How do you block 5 hits in a second, landing on you 26k dmg before you even knew that the battle was on? How can you land an attack without losing all you HP in an instant? How do you reduce an Animation Cancellers HP when his min/maxed build sustains all his resources while he can burst at will (because of AC)?
People will be told "L2P". Is copying min/maxed builds the way we should learn to play a game? Or by getting experienced in battle? When new players get in Cyrodiil, they all go WHAT THE HELL. It isn't entertaining. Of course people have to learn to play their character and their role, and what mechanics they must use for THAT CLASS, but how many out of all of the players in EU/NA PC/Consoles said to hell with this, I will study what the streamers are doing, instead of enjoying their gaming experience? How many said to hell with this I'll just PvE, even though they would LOVE to PvP, because they just get owned within seconds, or because their enemies HP JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO GO LOWER THAN 50% BEFORE IT GETS FULL AGAIN.
The problem between new players and experienced players isn't the difference in Lv, CP, Gold gear set, and knowledge. It cannot be solved with no CP campaigns and stuff like that. The real difference between experienced and new players in PvP is that the combat system does not promote decision making and reaction. There is no reaction factor in which you based your combat system. It's about how quickly you can perform your rotation. It doesn't matter if the enemy is a tank or if he is a healer or if he is a brawler (do we even have roles in PvP?). Spam the same rotation on everyone and if they die good. If they don't, your min/maxed stamina build will have you ready for an attack if you run a little bit, OR if you use a magika min/maxed build as soon as you stack and heal you can attack again.
This is how I understood combat when I first started playing in Cyrodiil and IC, after I learned cancelling animations.
I see an enemy
I'll get my buffs up. If there is no time I will make time to get my buffs up
I'll CC him to waste his stamina and deal some dmg.
I will control the environment and put some DoTs on him, while making sure that my Magika Stamina and HP resources are all accessible.
If he is nuke mage I will deflect his missiles back at him at the correct moment.
I will try to corner him and use my ulty and a quick execute to kill him (because I am a stamDK)
*** no bro!!! That's not how you PvP u stupid noob. You gotta learn what buttons to mash and do it as quickly as you can and AC as perfectly as you can. Is he a tank? Don't worry about it, just burst him. If he doesn't die break LoS kai sustain.
Is he a damage dealer? burst him down and if he doesn't die break LoS and sustain and try again.
Is he a healer? burst him down and if he doesn't die break LoS, sustain and try again.
This problematic combat system gave rise to zerging, zerging gave rise to Detonation trains, then VD was the cure to spread people but it made stuff worse.
Then poisons were added to the game. Poisons meant to attack your enemies resources. What are my skills for then??
Lately there's been an attack on regeneration by @ZOS which gave rise to sets that support full sustain combined with a proc damage of 6-9k, WHICH YOU CAN STACK A FEW OF THEM. Ye you don't need ATK stats, your armor will do the attacking for you.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@Wrobel
Remove all these counter measures and make combat truly reactive.
Isolate normal attacks and bashes from SKILLS, and allow animations to be complete and visible so that we can react to them.
Tweak dodge and Block.
I am sure that if you go back to the basics and remove all the Counter-Measures that were aimed at bringing balance, but actually ruined combat that people will stop complaining about imbalances between classes.
Animation Cancelling is not a feature. It's a product of bad mechanics.
IT DOES NOT HELP IN PVE. DO YOU WANT TO INCREASE PVE DAMAGE OUTPUT? BOOST OUR STATS OR REDUCE MOB/BOSSES STATS
It does not promote fluid and reactive combat. You cannot react to what you don't see. You cannot fight an Animation Canceller in such small time windows when they can BURST or RUN AND SUSTAIN at WILL.
One thing that will never change is the love tryhards have for ranged nukers, so mass PvP will always be Call of Duty on and off the walls. As a fighter I can live with it. More glory for me.
2)Play as you like from a variety of skills to chose for your Class vs Reality and min/maxing
As a matter of fact you cannot even play without reading guides and watching videos for builds, if you want to be competitive in PvP. You must follow the metas and you must AC (and you must have top Ping.) Or you can ignore the AP farmers and Zerg. In EU Standard 30 days, Aldenmery Dominion has the biggest Zergs at most of the time so they win the campaigns.
I cannot understand why in the world after all this time @ZOS won't remove the damage bonus from Max Stamina and Max Magika. How can I play as I want when I know that if I use a few points on my Magika in order to create a unique playstyle, and use some of my oh-so-many untouched CLASS SKILLS, my swords will hit like wet noodles. How am I playing as I want when I am playing one of the few metas?
Not that utilities would help me with my decisions in combat, because like I noted above combat is all about how fast you can burst a target (no matter what class he is) and let your sustain protect you. Minimum skill/Maximum AC/sustain.
Remove bonus damage from Max resources. Decrease mobs/bosses stats OR increase our WD/SP Phys/Mag resistance just enough in order to avoid problems in PvE
PvE is so easy I really don't understand why people rage all the time. But anyway: in PvE if you are a stamDPS your use of Magika skills is very narrow and that upsets people that want to use some skills for utility. I guess the same goes for magDPS. Other than that personally I think that in trials you should focus on your role.If you wanna be a good stamDPS you must use DW( well I would love to see some more archers and some more 2h warriors) and 7 Medium armor. If you are magDPS you must use a staff and Light armor. If you are a tank you must use a Shield.
With some of my inrl friends we clear dungeons with hybrid builds. We all make sure not to die using magika and stamina, the healer is a Stamina 2h Templar with heavy armor and the tank doesn't use a shield. As soon as my mates reach veteran levels they will follow stricter builds. No more play as you like. Especially not in vet Trials
Again. Remove bonus damage from Max resources. Decrease mobs/bosses stats OR increase our WD/SP Phys/Mag resistances just enough to avoid problems in PvE.
3)Customize your Stats with CP, Traits, Foodbuffs, Glyphs vs Reality what did the number crunchers posted this month?
Today I finished changing my build. I replaced something and lost 931 Max Stamina and Gained 127 WD, without affecting any other pieces. My aim was to improve my dps. And I was thinking "did I gained damage by increasing my WD, or did I lost damage by decreasing my Max Stamina??" The other day I was thinking "Should I go impen or should I go nirn armor?"
The other day I was thinking, should I go for Penetration? or should I go for critical? Or maybe WD?
The other day I was thinking. Should I spend on Crit CP or should I spend on Mighty CP?
Should I go Max HP/Stam/regen or will I lose dps if I don't go Max HP/Stam foodbuff.
Should I go Impen or Well-Fitted. Or should I go Infused for more Max Stam, meaning more DPS. Or should I go Nirn to have protection from Phys/Mag damage??
To hell with it, lemme just open google and watch a vid or read a guide. Why bother testing ALL THESE STATS when I can just copy the metas.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno
There are way to many factors which are all give and take stats. There are way to many CP that boost aspects of DMG and aspects of Defence/sustain.
You need to remove all these little numbers and have fewer more solid Stats so that players can learn while they play instead of checking if they lost 5 OVERAL DMG or if they gained 10 dps.
Remove CP
Remove Penetration and let us focus on crit or WD (or improve the one that gives Ulty)
Remove some of the Armor Traits so that we have clear options. I for one would like to see Nirncrux more boosted, Reinforced giving ULT points. There's some meaningful variety.
@ZOS
Your game is about numbers and stats and not about action. It's all about the flavour of the month. These are my suggestions that would help with the issues that arise all the time because of 2 MAJOR ERRORS
1) Animation Cancelling
2) Max Stamina/Magika damage bonus
Fix those 2 and there will be a more enjoyable game.
Other players in this forum, I think that you all want to have the best time in the games you play. I believe that many ESO could be more enjoyable and I post not to hate on proctards or Mag Sorc and what not. I make suggestions after some though, that I believe that will make things better for most people. You may disagree. Be constructive and reasonable. I was played eso for about 6 months from 2015 and the only thing I liked was the questing. Even though I am a PvP gamer I find the combat mechanics too lame. So I left. I am back in here only because a couple of friends wanted us to try the game. I invited 5 more people within the last month and 2 of them subscribe to @ZOS. ZOS would be happy with 7 extra people spending on DLCs and what not. So before you just suggest that I should leave if I don't like ESO, well as soon as they realize how crap the combat system is we will all leave. Just like other people do. In the mean time, I just wanna make some suggestions. Maybe it's been said before. Maybe @ZOS doesn't care or maybe @ZOS can't afford to patch over and over and over. I am just posting hoping that these issues are known to them. I know that they won't go out and give an answer. It's a company that makes money. They have their way of doing things. This is my feedback.
[Edited title for clickbaiting]
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AzraelKrieg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So... This is an extremely long QQ thread about animation cancelling?
Gold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NA
CR1000+Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50
Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50
Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50
Jorleif the Bear-King - EP DK - 50
Ko'Shariba-do - EP Sorc - 50
Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50
Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50
More-Tail - EP Warden - 50
Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50
Az the Bulwark of Skål - EP Warden - 50
Rilasi Sedas - EP Warden - 50
Rayna Andalen - EP Templar - 50 -
taiji2078✭✭✭I took the time to read everything. What you're saying is that you like pvp but you're playing the wrong game.
First thing, they should disable all passives from armor sets. Ballance all abilities to be equal between defence and offence. Remove the 1 shot abilities from pvp. Have a fair pvp experience for all. It's not that difficult. Other games did it many years ago.Edited by taiji2078 on June 20, 2017 12:01PMMagicka Pet High Elf Sorcerer , Magicka High Elf Nightblade, Magicka High Elf Templar, Imperial Warden Tank -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AzraelKrieg wrote: »So... This is an extremely long QQ thread about animation cancelling?
Seems to be about everything PvP. Since he seems to start and end with animation canceling it seems that is the focus. Just skimmed through due to the length.
I cannot recall being hit by 6 attacks in one second from one player.Edited by idk on June 20, 2017 12:10PMReally, idk -
Demycilian✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »AzraelKrieg wrote: »So... This is an extremely long QQ thread about animation cancelling?
Seems to be about everything PvP. Since he seems to start and end with animation canceling it seems that is the focus. Just skimmed through due to the length.
I cannot recall being hit by 6 attacks in one second from one player.
Really? I can remember lots of times that happened. -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sounds like just need to seperate pvp from pve by adjustig all skills in duels and cyrodiilI'm everything that doesn't belong in the pact but i'm there anyway... -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's not about L2P, or if you can't beat them join them.
I find the game mechanics very wrong.
There are so many videos on youtube with people killing whole groups. If it wasn't for bad mechanics and bad additions to the game (band aid fixes/balancing attempts) I am telling you people wouldn't be able to kill whole groups by themselves.
You might say oh it's this Streamer and he is good that's why he can kill 10 ppl without dying. Well rly? It's not aboud how good or how bad you are, it's about how people that apply their playstyle to these bad features can become Godlike. -
Eirella✭✭✭✭✭A rant that can be answered with 6 words:
Learn to play and get good.
I feel like I quote you a lot, but you always say things I agree with
Edited by Eirella on June 20, 2017 12:18PM -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So let me put this as simple as I can.
If we take any of us here and get him to ride the metas, he/she should kill 10 people that don't ride the metas.
But if he chooses not to wear let's say proc gear, (just because it's a recent issue) he/she and other 10 like them should lose to the guy that rides the metas.
Is that acceptable?Edited by GeorgeBlack on June 20, 2017 12:26PM -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've been playing PvP for a very long time, I'm not going to cry about silly things like animation cancelling, proc sets, poisons, gap closers, FC rez times, or nerf NBs. I've been playing for 2 years and had nothing but fun.
However, the one problem I see is population gaps. I don't understand how they are thinking it would be fun playing a poplock vs 1 bar. I wish someone would explain this too me so I can understand, but I've seen it in almost all campaigns and it makes people leave PvP. Just a few days ago I logged on to EP ( I play 99.0% on DC ) to show someone around IC. In that campaign DC owned the entire map and in zone chat everyone was talking about how much they hated it, because DC had 3 bars vs 1 bar EP. I've seen the same complaints on DC side when AD has a Poplock vs DC 1 or 2 bars. I've heard players from AD cry when they don't have anyone to play on their faction.
It is the no. 1 reason why people leave PvP. If the population gap was tightened I think more people would enjoy PvP, and you would hear less people cry about other things.
I don't know what the solution is because If they did restrict players from playing on high population alliances people would complain about sitting in the que. I think maybe give everyone the Emp buff on the alliance that doesn't have any players, I think that might be fun
Finally, I would love to see the acutal number of players on each alliance instead of just bars. Every time I go to the CP campaign DC is crying because they say EP has too many players. I think that is a lame excuse for losing when every alliance is poplocked and no DC players are in IC. Let us see the true numbers.
Other than that PvP is fun, I die a lot and kill a few, and very seldom complain about PvP
Edited by vamp_emily on June 20, 2017 12:29PM
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Legate Grade 2 ( level 41 ) -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just call for the zuuuuuuuuuuuuuurg to help you with all your Problems.
You can play with so many Setups if you are good.
I have 10 different sets i run on my nb with dw and 2h only, there are like 4 others when i play bow/bow and another 7 with 2h/bow and i don't use any proc sets in any of these builds.
If you think you have to follow the meta to kick ass you just need to git gud and actually think about a own playstyle
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GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@vamp_emily
You are a bit off topic but I must say, even if there were even numbers on the alliances, zergs would be the problem and PvP would be boring.
Zerging is a problem cause by bad lowscale pvp, because of AC -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Call out threads with @ZoSEmployee in thread title are a good way for a forum vacation OP.Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh. -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I use the forum to improve my gaming experience. If I get a ban for that reason I'll be back when I can. I don't insult anyone. -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »@vamp_emily
You are a bit off topic but I must say, even if there were even numbers on the alliances, zergs would be the problem and PvP would be boring.
Zerging is a problem cause by bad lowscale pvp, because of AC
Sorry I thought you were complaining about PvP and how to make it better.
oops.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Legate Grade 2 ( level 41 ) -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Demycilian wrote: »
How does it remove counterplay? It takes me 5 seconds to learn an enemies skill bars and knowing their skill bars I will know their rotation. If people can't work out an enemies skill bar that's a L2P issue lol. -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can we discuss without trying to make fun of others in an attempt to lv our forums skillz? -
DeadRune✭✭✭I know one of those OP players and I'll tell you now, he worked damn hard and created his own build and plays every day to get it right, that's why he can kill groups. And he's not doing it with a magsorc or a meta build, but with a friggin Templar without beam on his bar.
Also, you lost me at the PVE part. I'm largely a PVE player and I've got to say that I see plenty of 2h stam and bow stam dps in our trials. We have one guy in our guild on a stambow dps who does 35k+ self-buffed on the 6 mil target dummy.
What is a problem in PVP is add-ons which tell you when to block/dodge roll, and macros.
I really like the combat system and I sucked at it at first, but the more I played and enjoyed the game, the better I got. If you don't enjoy it, then perhaps you should find another game.
On my way to PC EU! -
ofSunhold✭✭✭✭✭I'm not a big fan of animation cancelling either - tbh mostly because I'm bad at it. But this is the game. If you don't like the very design of the game, you should probably just play a different one. I know you don't want to hear that, but as I trust you have good intentions, please trust I'm not just blowing you off - that really might be your best option if you don't want to adapt to this. They've indicated repeatedly over a long span of time that this is how it's going to be.
As for all the little numbers that effect damage and all the various calculations needed to make a good build, as long as they provide us with all the info, I'm fine with that. Again - not good at it - but fine with it all the same. Fortunately there are people who ARE good at it, who patiently explain it over and over again, and hell yeah I will watch their videos and read their sites because I do have more fun when I understand things.Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens. -
Demycilian✭✭✭✭Demycilian wrote: »
How does it remove counterplay? It takes me 5 seconds to learn an enemies skill bars and knowing their skill bars I will know their rotation. If people can't work out an enemies skill bar that's a L2P issue lol.
I doubt that. -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »So let me put this as simple as I can.
If we take any of us here and get him to ride the metas, he/she should kill 10 people that don't ride the metas.
But if he chooses not to wear let's say proc gear, (just because it's a recent issue) he/she and other 10 like them should lose to the guy that rides the metas.
Is that acceptable?
Metas do not make players great. Experience and figuring out how to handle various situations is what makes a good player. Thought it does start with knowing what to use, how to use it is most important.Really, idk -
kuro-dono✭✭✭✭this is whats so wrong with this game. the population. all so happily/willingly to abuse pugs and exploit weak players.
git gut l2p replies are filled with nothing but negativeness.
he has fair amount of point. animation cancelling affects pve ALOT. since in pve if you play with your friends who you can trust, there wont be any unkown element that would ruin your rotation.
so. we put 2 guys next to each other with identical computers and identical class/build, one who doesnt do animation cancelling and another who does. the dmg difference you ask?... .... .... somewhere between 3-5x for the animation canceller.
in pvp the animation cancelling is real pain in da arse when this happens> me roaming around, i see enemy player, unmount, quick buff and charge in... oh wait the guy is already gabclosing and bam, he does something next to me, used dawnbreaker and i am dead, so i thought i was hit by gabclosing skill and dawnbreaker? wrong. there is total of 5 abilities / dots showing up aswell which i didnt get any kind of indication that they were coming with his attack bundle.
this is what he was talking about. animation cancelling should be fixed> no animation, no effect. no effect, no dmg/heal/utility.
this is what most pro nightblades and sorcs do in pvp: how they get their easy mode kills.
me as an stamina templar ( lol i know i should respec myself into healbot or change class )
then next phase of his topic> cp.
ppl talk how they want to have sense of progress in mmo. i get that, but cp isnt where they should focus. cp has fudged this game wrong way pretty much as badly as animation cancelling has.
pvp instant burst builds with high sustain??? tanks who can stand under rain of fire and attacks without really worrying about anything else expect if they running out of coca cola or not. there is not much of grey area or sense of progress to anyone else expect the pros and the filthy gankers or healbots who have played so long that even with only one hand they can handle pug zerg. that stuff doesnt promote fun pvp envinronment.
in pve> the cp has caused silly problems, mostly in form of conversation where at the main hub zones ppl looking for max cp folks with achis to link for their dungeon run. its quite rare that new player gets to enjoy dungeon completely these days. its either total pug group where nobody really try to lead/have conversation how to work out mechanics, or its run where there is godly aoe spammer/single target solo choo choo who pretty much alone kill everything and is way ahead of everyone. ofc certain veteran dungeons are bit harder than that to go solo to kill them all but I AM SURE, that ppl know what i mean / refer to.
last point> minmaxing>
Its very discusting modern gaming problem. you either minmax and have fun, or you dont and you wont do cool stuff like clearing 4 man dungeons or trials. pve its not too bad. but in pvp thats everything.
there ofc is few other problems but hyprid builds in pvp dont really have any chance. no matter how well balanced and how well you have sorted your rotation. -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Giles.floydub17_ESO
I agree. However if it wasn't for the features of ESO that promote min/maxing I doubt that one player no matter how skillfull would be able to kill all 10 of his opponents. Maybe 1-3 but he would eventually be overpowered. That is the point I try to make.
