Who else would like BoP to die?

Ep1kMalware

F7sus4 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I would love to see it happen, especially as this allows more gold to move around the game and gives players who might not have the guilds or friends to do trials on a regular basis a chance to get sets for things like dungeons or vMSA.

It would also possibly make raiders awfully rich rendering all current traders skills and effort useless. Not that I mind myself...

Thats sort of the point. Endgsme pve content should be lucrative to some extent. Even if all yoi do is buy more potd to run more content. Casuals might even do normal trials to try and afford a house. It adds economy. Economy is better than sadness. Trials are failing because zos keeps taking thingd away and there's no incentive finamcially. Why would they get interested in progression when it's a dysmal abyss?

MattT1988

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

lauykanson wrote: »

4-man dungeon sets should be BoE just like overland ones, same for trial ones

But for vMA and vDSA gear they should either be BoP or only tradable within groups, especially vMA if you can't beat the content then you don't deserve to get it.

Rather than making everything tradable ZOS should remove all the trash traits for CP160+ gear , or give players to choose the type of gear they want and keep traits random, its not that hard to implement

And why doesn't someone "deserve" to get VMA weapons if they cant beat the content? Maybe that player only plays tanks and just cant meet the DPS checks vMA requires....does that mean they don't "deserve" a weapon from there? Maybe someone does nothing in this game but craft, do they not "deserve" a vMA weapon? Just because they don't have that particular achievement doesn't mean they are lesser people. Maybe there is someone out there that wants to collect all the weapons the game has to offer, but just doesn't have the skill to complete vMA. Believe it or not, there are many ways of playing this game, and thinking you can determine whether someone "deserves" a certain piece of gear is nothing but trying to push your idea of the game on everyone else. I suggest a compromise of this nature...that for vMA weapons, you can only sell one per week(or one per month), this way prices are guaranteed to stay high because its only desirable traits for the most part that will be worth someone keeping to sell. You will essentially only see vMA weapons for sale at 250k+ with a time gate like that on them, this way it encourages people to farm them on their own...but also offers options for people who grind vMA 300 times without ever finding that sharpened inferno staff, or the guy who just likes to fish and just wants the weapon to complete his collection

Why would a Tank or a crafter need Maelstrom weapons?

Well. Easy research for nirnhoned

There's a lot easier ways to get Nirhoned for research. If people think they must do Maelstrom to get Nirhoned weapons, then good luck to them.

josiahva

Aliyavana wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

lauykanson wrote: »

4-man dungeon sets should be BoE just like overland ones, same for trial ones

But for vMA and vDSA gear they should either be BoP or only tradable within groups, especially vMA if you can't beat the content then you don't deserve to get it.

Rather than making everything tradable ZOS should remove all the trash traits for CP160+ gear , or give players to choose the type of gear they want and keep traits random, its not that hard to implement

And who is to determine "trash" traits? You? Before I was max CP I would often wear a few training cp160 gear pieces to help out. Sometimes if I am farming gold I will equip prosperous gear. Just because you don't use those traits doesn't mean they dont have a use. STOP TRYING TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF TRAITS when the problem can be solved just by making things BoE. And why doesn't someone "deserve" to get VMA weapons if they cant beat the content? Maybe that player only plays tanks and just cant meet the DPS checks vMA requires....does that mean they don't "deserve" a weapon from there? Maybe someone does nothing in this game but craft, do they not "deserve" a vMA weapon? Just because they don't have that particular achievement doesn't mean they are lesser people. Maybe there is someone out there that wants to collect all the weapons the game has to offer, but just doesn't have the skill to complete vMA. Believe it or not, there are many ways of playing this game, and thinking you can determine whether someone "deserves" a certain piece of gear is nothing but trying to push your idea of the game on everyone else. I suggest a compromise of this nature...that for vMA weapons, you can only sell one per week(or one per month), this way prices are guaranteed to stay high because its only desirable traits for the most part that will be worth someone keeping to sell. You will essentially only see vMA weapons for sale at 250k+ with a time gate like that on them, this way it encourages people to farm them on their own...but also offers options for people who grind vMA 300 times without ever finding that sharpened inferno staff, or the guy who just likes to fish and just wants the weapon to complete his collection

Crafted gear can use training or prosperous and doesn't have to pollute dropped bis gear tables. And a tank doesn't need vma weapons neither does a crafter. A person who cannot complete vma does not deserve the gear.

Again, you fail to see the point NO ONE NEEDS MAELSTROM WEAPONS. Every single piece of content in the game is doable without them. For that matter, you could have vanilla gear with no set bonuses at all and likely be able to complete all the content in the game with a good enough group. The point is that there are people who want that gear and just cant complete the content, have no interest in completing the content, or are too busy playing other content to devote the needed time to complete it. There is no real reason to deny them the opportunity to buy whatever gear they want other than to feed your own ego. I have completed vMA often enough(though its true I don't constantly farm it like some), but I have no problem with someone unable to complete it for whatever reason buying the weapons. I just think selling vMA weapons from there should be time gated to make it prohibitively expensive to buy them. If you DO pay 1 million plus for a vMA weapon...guess what? Making that million was just as much of an achievement as running vMA(likely more). If its bragging rights you are after...that's the whole point of achievements...gear isn't an achievement, its just gear.

Sjizzle

I like this system with BoP not BoE.....

why all who do the hardest content to have the same gear as one who farm gold, craft materials all day ??? there is no sense for it ....if u wish to farm craft materials, or gold go ahead I have no problem....but stop crying here that u can not get the monster set from vCoS or u can not do vtrial, vDSA, vMA, and u wanna buy it....
go there and spend tons of food, pots, repair kits, time till u get the full clear and the gear what u want.... they are not that hard as u think u need only to practice go there with some friends and try it out ......
u want best gear without a minim effort ...
for farming craf materials and gold u don't need best gear so no sense for BoE's

josiahva

Sjizzle wrote: »

I like this system with BoP not BoE.....

why all who do the hardest content to have the same gear as one who farm gold, craft materials all day ??? there is no sense for it ....if u wish to farm craft materials, or gold go ahead I have no problem....but stop crying here that u can not get the monster set from vCoS or u can not do vtrial, vDSA, vMA, and u wanna buy it....
go there and spend tons of food, pots, repair kits, time till u get the full clear and the gear what u want.... they are not that hard as u think u need only to practice go there with some friends and try it out ......
u want best gear without a minim effort ...

This would be a perfectly fair system is there was other highly desirable unique gear that could only be gotten from say...a solo tanking trial, or that you could only get from a high end crafting questline that requires 9 traits....or a fishing questline that requires master angler...but there is NOT. As it is, ESO is focused exclusively towards DPS. There are no unique rewards like vMA weapons for tanking or crafting or fishing, or healing, or stealing, etc. Do you see the problem? Let me guess, you play mainly DPS toons and have completed vMA multiple times right? Go try tanking it, you cant even make it past the first boss simply because the DPS check is too much. You can survive all day long, but you cant progress. Its true with a good basic character build you can equip DPS gear on a tank, swap a few skills and breeze on past....but then you arent tanking any more. I will fully support vMA weapons being BoP if ESO introduces unique gear locked behind a 9 trait crafter wall, a master angler fishing wall, etc that are also BoP. Until then, I cant support it. If that happened though all those people who only DPS would cry about how it takes 18 months(roughly) to reach 9 traits and how they cant get whatever cool gear ESO would lock behind that wall. The whole point of my argument is that people dont play this game the same, and all gear should be available to everyone, regardless of how they play, even if "available" means expensive for the non-preferred method. The argument that only people who have completed vMA "deserve" vMA weapons is like me saying they should introduce jewelry crafting, but that to do so requires 9 traits in blacksmithing and that the resulting gold jewelry is BoP, because those who cant craft don't "deserve" the jewelry. Do you fail to see the other side of this? Or are you just so used to having a monopoly on the good gear that you refuse to?

You act like grinding gold and crafting materials all day is easy. Sure...playing vMA may require a lot more muscle memory and skill in fights...but it doesnt take anywhere CLOSE to the TIME needed to farm 1 million gold or learn 9 traits on everything. You seem to think that other people's time invested in doing things other than damage is worth less than yours....this is simply not true and never will be.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

I've posted this idea in other threads, but I think that certain gear should only be obtainable by a challenge. And no, I don't consider grinding 1 million gold a challenge. That's just a week's vacation very poorly spent in my world.

There's also the very real point that gold sellers are a thing. Even IF you consider grinding for gold to be indicative of some quality that entitles you to BiS gear, there's no guarantee that somebody with 1 million gold actually obtained that 1 million by rightful means.

All of that being said, because it doesn't make sense for the best gear to be BoE, something needs to be done about the RNG so that players aren't stuck grinding the same 2 or 3 dungeons / trials for months. A few of my thoughts on this:

-Armor penetration is far too important. It eclipses every other stat, and sharpened weapons and sharp gear set bonuses are king. New sources of armor penetration need to be introduced (armor pen runes?) or the stat itself needs to be mathematically reduced in effectiveness so that it isn't the clear choice anymore. The former option of more sources is obviously much more feasible.

-Some traits are far better than others for a desired role, even leaving sharpened out of the argument. Everyone jokes about prosperous, but at least it has uses for farming. Sturdy is only even somewhat useful for tanks, and well-fitted is also extremely niche. Impenetrable is literally useless if you don't PvP. The problem with traits, as I see it, is that they create these specialized gear pieces that only benefit certain play styles. Is there a way around this without introducing some kind of token system, as everyone is suggesting? I'm not sure, but a system where you can freely / easily select your trait doesn't sit right with me either, especially since bosses have such small loot tables if you ignore traits.

dennissomb16_ESO

While I would love to see changes to loot table (training, prosperous etc. just stupid) I would not like to see BOP go away. This game is already more generous then most MMOs by allowing you to wear bound gear across all your characters.

I think it is reasonable to expect players to actually do the various parts of the game (dungeons,raids pvp) to get gear. There is also a fair amount of BOE drops that are desirable (spinners etc)

More importantly allowing everything to be sold at guild traders would only see a massive increase in gold sellers/buyers which means a massive increase in bots/hackers

josiahva

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I've posted this idea in other threads, but I think that certain gear should only be obtainable by a challenge. And no, I don't consider grinding 1 million gold a challenge. That's just a week's vacation very poorly spent in my world.

There's also the very real point that gold sellers are a thing. Even IF you consider grinding for gold to be indicative of some quality that entitles you to BiS gear, there's no guarantee that somebody with 1 million gold actually obtained that 1 million by rightful means.

All of that being said, because it doesn't make sense for the best gear to be BoE, something needs to be done about the RNG so that players aren't stuck grinding the same 2 or 3 dungeons / trials for months. A few of my thoughts on this:

-Armor penetration is far too important. It eclipses every other stat, and sharpened weapons and sharp gear set bonuses are king. New sources of armor penetration need to be introduced (armor pen runes?) or the stat itself needs to be mathematically reduced in effectiveness so that it isn't the clear choice anymore. The former option of more sources is obviously much more feasible.

-Some traits are far better than others for a desired role, even leaving sharpened out of the argument. Everyone jokes about prosperous, but at least it has uses for farming. Sturdy is only even somewhat useful for tanks, and well-fitted is also extremely niche. Impenetrable is literally useless if you don't PvP. The problem with traits, as I see it, is that they create these specialized gear pieces that only benefit certain play styles. Is there a way around this without introducing some kind of token system, as everyone is suggesting? I'm not sure, but a system where you can freely / easily select your trait doesn't sit right with me either, especially since bosses have such small loot tables if you ignore traits.

You shouldnt be able to freely select your trait, but I would be open to the idea that only a 9-trait crafter could change it for you with a special item with the rarity of Aetherial Dust. 9 trait crafters are more common than they used to be...but not everyone is one yet(especially with crafting being almost worthless with all the drop sets overshadowing crafted sets except for Julianos/Hundings/TBS/Eternal Hunt and a few others). I do admit there is the problem of people actually buying gold....that I never actually considered, I didnt even realize people did that to be honest(though in reality that doesnt matter either because SOMEONE spent the time grinding/selling/trading for that gold regardless. I can see a situation in which player A runs maelstrom and gets a weapon they sell for a million gold, then player B buys that million gold for $100 and buys a different maelstrom weapon from player C, then player A repeats the process, but even so with a time gate of 1 vMA weapon sale per month the abuse would be severely limited). In terms of grinding 1 million gold in a week....thats a week's worth of time spent....I consider that appropriate time value for maelstrom weapon considering it took the person selling that weapon only 1 hour to make the run.

cmetzger93

Gods yes

Crafts_Many_Boxes

josiahva wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I've posted this idea in other threads, but I think that certain gear should only be obtainable by a challenge. And no, I don't consider grinding 1 million gold a challenge. That's just a week's vacation very poorly spent in my world.

There's also the very real point that gold sellers are a thing. Even IF you consider grinding for gold to be indicative of some quality that entitles you to BiS gear, there's no guarantee that somebody with 1 million gold actually obtained that 1 million by rightful means.

All of that being said, because it doesn't make sense for the best gear to be BoE, something needs to be done about the RNG so that players aren't stuck grinding the same 2 or 3 dungeons / trials for months. A few of my thoughts on this:

-Armor penetration is far too important. It eclipses every other stat, and sharpened weapons and sharp gear set bonuses are king. New sources of armor penetration need to be introduced (armor pen runes?) or the stat itself needs to be mathematically reduced in effectiveness so that it isn't the clear choice anymore. The former option of more sources is obviously much more feasible.

-Some traits are far better than others for a desired role, even leaving sharpened out of the argument. Everyone jokes about prosperous, but at least it has uses for farming. Sturdy is only even somewhat useful for tanks, and well-fitted is also extremely niche. Impenetrable is literally useless if you don't PvP. The problem with traits, as I see it, is that they create these specialized gear pieces that only benefit certain play styles. Is there a way around this without introducing some kind of token system, as everyone is suggesting? I'm not sure, but a system where you can freely / easily select your trait doesn't sit right with me either, especially since bosses have such small loot tables if you ignore traits.

You shouldnt be able to freely select your trait, but I would be open to the idea that only a 9-trait crafter could change it for you with a special item with the rarity of Aetherial Dust. 9 trait crafters are more common than they used to be...but not everyone is one yet(especially with crafting being almost worthless with all the drop sets overshadowing crafted sets except for Julianos/Hundings/TBS/Eternal Hunt and a few others). I do admit there is the problem of people actually buying gold....that I never actually considered, I didnt even realize people did that to be honest(though in reality that doesnt matter either because SOMEONE spent the time grinding/selling/trading for that gold regardless. I can see a situation in which player A runs maelstrom and gets a weapon they sell for a million gold, then player B buys that million gold for $100 and buys a different maelstrom weapon from player C, then player A repeats the process, but even so with a time gate of 1 vMA weapon sale per month the abuse would be severely limited). In terms of grinding 1 million gold in a week....thats a week's worth of time spent....I consider that appropriate time value for maelstrom weapon considering it took the person selling that weapon only 1 hour to make the run.

The 9 trait thing is an okay idea and would certainly give crafters more power again, I like it. Just them being able to change traits willy-nilly on their own is too powerful, but limiting it by a rare reagent would probably work. Maybe not aetherial dust rare, but like rarer than nirncrux rare.

As for your second point, I disagree entirely. You can't just equate time spent doing A to time spent doing B, or base your argument around that deserving something because you put X hours in. The whole point of a game is that it's based on skill. Around mechanical competency. Time shouldn't be a factor, just the skill that the player brings to the table when it counts.

Games, at their core, are (usually) a power fantasy. This one is no exception. In the real world, time put in does often equate to the rewards achieved, but that is not the case within the context of gaming. Real life IS the ultimate grind, after all. You can spend 1000 hours trying to complete a raid in an MMO, but if you have a poor reaction time or can't adapt to the mechanics, they're pretty much 1000 wasted hours.

You need to just accept this so that you can understand how grinding 1 million gold doesn't entitle you to whatever you want. Not in this game world anyway, where skill is the (primary) focus and there are rewards based entirely around displaying that skill. And as long as that's only happening at the highest level, I think that's a perfectly valid system. Should dungeon gear be BoP? There are arguments for either side, but trial gear NEEDS to remain BoP.

Actually, the failure of many modern MMOs is that they are starting TO encourage more grinding in place of skill challenges, and it's killing them, their playerbase, and their spirit. One of the reasons I left Rift was because the "saga" to get the best weapon for your class now involves doing hundreds upon hundreds of rifts, zone events, and planar invasions, and endgame dungeons. It's a giant, tedious grind that rewards you with higher stats as you grind more, but nothing involved is actually difficult, except for a bizarre 3 dimensional puzzle you do AS you fall through the air that has no bearing on the rest of the game whatsoever. A system where BiS is buyable creates a "grind to win" meta.

josiahva

I understand the sense of achievement coming from completing difficult content, its like the first time I beat Demon Souls(or worse, the orginal Ninja Gaiden on the original NES, that was a ridiculously hard game, very unforgiving). In the end, those people who buy those weapons still dont have the achievement...sure they bought the gear, so what? They don't have the achievement to go with it, they still havent done the content. Time put into a game IS an achievement, otherwise reaching 9 traits wouldn't mean a thing. So maybe vMA weapons and the like shouldn't be available for just gold...that's fine, all I ask is that an alternative path be added to reach them...or to add gear just as unique and good to other aspects of the game, maybe place other items with unique enchants behind some goal or another. Say a shield that reduces incoming damage by 8%(not a buff, just a flat reduction that can stack with other buffs) if you are able to survive an arena that puts out x incoming damage per second. Or gear that allows you to double the chance of refining gold tempers from items while wearing it that you can only get by doing x amount of master writs in y amount of time. In effect though if you don't want to unlock unique items locked behind a DPS wall, then what needs to happen is to lock other unique items behind other walls because right now DPS characters can do any content in the game and its just not true of other roles(and non-combat playstyles). Its very true tanks, crafters, and fishers likely have no use for vMA items...so give them something else instead that they do have a use for to compensate.

Sjizzle

josiahva wrote: »

This would be a perfectly fair system is there was other highly desirable unique gear that could only be gotten from say...a solo tanking trial, or that you could only get from a high end crafting questline that requires 9 traits....or a fishing questline that requires master angler...but there is NOT. As it is, ESO is focused exclusively towards DPS. There are no unique rewards like vMA weapons for tanking or crafting or fishing, or healing, or stealing, etc. Do you see the problem? Let me guess, you play mainly DPS toons and have completed vMA multiple times right? Go try tanking it, you cant even make it past the first boss simply because the DPS check is too much. You can survive all day long, but you cant progress. Its true with a good basic character build you can equip DPS gear on a tank, swap a few skills and breeze on past....but then you arent tanking any more. I will fully support vMA weapons being BoP if ESO introduces unique gear locked behind a 9 trait crafter wall, a master angler fishing wall, etc that are also BoP. Until then, I cant support it. If that happened though all those people who only DPS would cry about how it takes 18 months(roughly) to reach 9 traits and how they cant get whatever cool gear ESO would lock behind that wall. The whole point of my argument is that people dont play this game the same, and all gear should be available to everyone, regardless of how they play, even if "available" means expensive for the non-preferred method. The argument that only people who have completed vMA "deserve" vMA weapons is like me saying they should introduce jewelry crafting, but that to do so requires 9 traits in blacksmithing and that the resulting gold jewelry is BoP, because those who cant craft don't "deserve" the jewelry. Do you fail to see the other side of this? Or are you just so used to having a monopoly on the good gear that you refuse to?

You act like grinding gold and crafting materials all day is easy. Sure...playing vMA may require a lot more muscle memory and skill in fights...but it doesnt take anywhere CLOSE to the TIME needed to farm 1 million gold or learn 9 traits on everything. You seem to think that other people's time invested in doing things other than damage is worth less than yours....this is simply not true and never will be.

I am a tank .... I don't care about vMA I did all vdungeons HM and also trials too I have no alts I have only 1 character my Tank but it's not fair that all crafter to have same gear as the players who do vtrials or vdungeons HM !!!!!!!
Nobody stop u to do the vet dungeons or vMA vtrials go there I am not a crafter i don't care about crafting but as i have said not fair to get best gear without effort go and do some effort to get it from vet dungeons or vtrials stop crying here like a baby !!!!!

PlagueSD

josiahva wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

There is some gear that definitely should be earned. If you are able to complete content you should have a better chance at getting what youre looking for than what we currently have. However there are tons of sets that are BoP that really shouldnt be.

You act as if acquiring enough gold to buy something isnt earning it. Say that I go grind mobs for an hour and come back with say 10-20k gold...I just spent 1 hour playing content. If I want to use that 20k gold to buy say an Ebon shield someone got from CoH....that person likely spent close to the same time(most likely less, depending on the group) playing content to get that shield. Since that person chose to run the more difficult content(vet dungeon as opposed to grinding mobs at vivec's antlers) he is entitled to a better gold-per-hour ratio investment. The point being that either way content is being played, this applies to ANYTHING that is BoP, its earned whether you grind the gold or grind the content. To prevent the market being flooded with vMA weapons and the like, you could always limit sales of that particular group of items(whether its vMA weapons, master weapons, monster helms, etc) to just one per week per account(or per character, whatever)

Then come the Chinese gold farmers. Why grind for an hour to "earn" that 20K gold when I can just pay $19.95 and have it instantly. We already have a bot problem. Don't need to make it worse.

Leave BoP alone.

IcyDeadPeople

YargHound wrote: »

There was once a golden era in ESO where you could sell almost anything. Now almost everything is Bind on Pickup and if you are like me RNG hates you. Zeni you have so much content in the game it seems counter productive to force someone to run a dungeon 30+ times for a drop set, especially considering that garbage drops most like Prosperous or Training on a CP160 piece. NOBODY wants Prosperous. 30+ runs and still haven't assembled a 5 piece with decent traits. Think it over guys and gals. Do you want people to spend all their time farming or playing?

Yes, I would also like BoP to die. Let's provide PVP players a way to gear up for PVP without having to spend months in PVE running the same dungeon over and over. And let's provide everyone a way to try lots of different build ideas, which is a big part of the fun in this game for some of us, while preserving their sanity.

I can understand the intent of BoP for monster helms or some trial set that allows you to do more damage vs trials bosses or whatever.

But it strikes me as odd that some of the strongest and most popular sets in this game easily are available for a few hundred gold while many others which are outright weak or not even particularly good can only be obtained by running the same dungeon over and over hundreds of times? You have to go through such an ordeal, just to try a creative build concept with some subpar set?

And many of the older dungeons are no longer popular, so it's difficult to find anybody willing to run them over and over with you. You might try instead running it solo, killling the first boss, looking for chests and then trying to find someone in zone chat willing to help you reset the dungeon, enter again, repeat over and over. This is not a very fun way to play this game.

At least get rid of BoP for the group dungeon sets. Most of these are weaker than what you can already buy from guild traders

darthsithis

only things that should be tied to the hardest accomplishments that the most organized groups or leader-board toppers recieve should be BoP.

stuff like trials sets that you can farm, but have to trade within the group just wastes time. VO needs to be BoE.

Jamascus

Inig0 wrote: »

There is some gear that definitely should be earned. If you are able to complete content you should have a better chance at getting what youre looking for than what we currently have. However there are tons of sets that are BoP that really shouldnt be.

Whether I run the content or buy the gear with in-game currency that I earned, I still earned it.

Ep1kMalware

josiahva wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

lauykanson wrote: »

4-man dungeon sets should be BoE just like overland ones, same for trial ones

But for vMA and vDSA gear they should either be BoP or only tradable within groups, especially vMA if you can't beat the content then you don't deserve to get it.

Rather than making everything tradable ZOS should remove all the trash traits for CP160+ gear , or give players to choose the type of gear they want and keep traits random, its not that hard to implement

And who is to determine "trash" traits? You? Before I was max CP I would often wear a few training cp160 gear pieces to help out. Sometimes if I am farming gold I will equip prosperous gear. Just because you don't use those traits doesn't mean they dont have a use. STOP TRYING TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF TRAITS when the problem can be solved just by making things BoE. And why doesn't someone "deserve" to get VMA weapons if they cant beat the content? Maybe that player only plays tanks and just cant meet the DPS checks vMA requires....does that mean they don't "deserve" a weapon from there? Maybe someone does nothing in this game but craft, do they not "deserve" a vMA weapon? Just because they don't have that particular achievement doesn't mean they are lesser people. Maybe there is someone out there that wants to collect all the weapons the game has to offer, but just doesn't have the skill to complete vMA. Believe it or not, there are many ways of playing this game, and thinking you can determine whether someone "deserves" a certain piece of gear is nothing but trying to push your idea of the game on everyone else. I suggest a compromise of this nature...that for vMA weapons, you can only sell one per week(or one per month), this way prices are guaranteed to stay high because its only desirable traits for the most part that will be worth someone keeping to sell. You will essentially only see vMA weapons for sale at 250k+ with a time gate like that on them, this way it encourages people to farm them on their own...but also offers options for people who grind vMA 300 times without ever finding that sharpened inferno staff, or the guy who just likes to fish and just wants the weapon to complete his collection

Crafted gear can use training or prosperous and doesn't have to pollute dropped bis gear tables. And a tank doesn't need vma weapons neither does a crafter. A person who cannot complete vma does not deserve the gear.

Again, you fail to see the point NO ONE NEEDS MAELSTROM WEAPONS. Every single piece of content in the game is doable without them. For that matter, you could have vanilla gear with no set bonuses at all and likely be able to complete all the content in the game with a good enough group. The point is that there are people who want that gear and just cant complete the content, have no interest in completing the content, or are too busy playing other content to devote the needed time to complete it. There is no real reason to deny them the opportunity to buy whatever gear they want other than to feed your own ego. I have completed vMA often enough(though its true I don't constantly farm it like some), but I have no problem with someone unable to complete it for whatever reason buying the weapons. I just think selling vMA weapons from there should be time gated to make it prohibitively expensive to buy them. If you DO pay 1 million plus for a vMA weapon...guess what? Making that million was just as much of an achievement as running vMA(likely more). If its bragging rights you are after...that's the whole point of achievements...gear isn't an achievement, its just gear.

Pretty much. Tbh, last patch stam dps vma weapons were bis, this patch not so much, except bow. And for magic, the dps increase isn't much. After a million precisw weapoms of every kind, 2 sharp lightning, 3 sharp inferno, I would surely trade an inferno for a couple sharp daggers. But with this update amd front;oaded cp you can run 2 precise daggers in trials anyway. No reason to bother farming vma aside from selling loot.

Sjizzle

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, I would also like BoP to die. Let's provide PVP players a way to gear up for PVP without having to spend months in PVE running the same dungeon over and over. And let's provide everyone a way to try lots of different build ideas, which is a big part of the fun in this game for some of us, while preserving their sanity.

why ??? do u saw any PVE players on this forum who cry that they need to do pvp for Vigor, warhorn etc. etc. ? go and do pve if need gear... stop acting like a kid... If u need something pot a decent amount of effort to get them !!!!

theher0not

Not me. If you want good gear you should work for it and not just be able to buy it with gold.

It would also allow gold sellers to sell good gear for real money which would be horrible for the game and basicly be a form of P2W.


But they do need to change how traits work (rework or buff the bad traits and maybe nerf the super strong ones). And remove traits that have no use on end game gear (prosperous and Training) from the drop of vet content and MSA.

Rungar

it would be very neat if they introduced any or all of the following:

1) After you have completed a dungeon on vet hm you get a point for that dungeon that gives you a 1% chance from then on to get a boe item in that dungeon instead of bop. After 100 vet hm's you always get boe items.

2) A quest that involved tradeskills and overland world bosses, delves and public dungeons that allow you to place an item from that zone in a magic chest that unlocks the item to boe. The quest is repeatable like writs.

3) enhance the treasure hunter cp to give a 5% chance items obtained from chests are boe.

DjMuscleboy02

I'm ok with anything being BoE except vma weapons, I've run vma a ridiculous number of times and still don't have my weapons but I do not think you should be able to buy them for anything but some sort of non-tradable token for vma completions.

Dubhliam

I don't mind BoP, people usually won't do content unless forced to.

One of the downsides of BoE is... botting will become even more attractive. As if we don't have enough of that.

That being said, I wouldn't mind for sets to become BoE, with some strict exceptions:

1. Master and Maelstrom weapons. These should NEVER be BoE. It needs a token system... another topic.
2. Undaunted masks. Also need to be BoP.
3. Minor Slayer and Aegis sets. Craglorn trials have unique HA, MA and LA sets each that could be BoE (hello Sharpened Twice Fanged Serpent), but I think Minor Slayer and Aegis sets should still be BoP.

Dubhliam

josiahva wrote: »

Sjizzle wrote: »

I like this system with BoP not BoE.....

why all who do the hardest content to have the same gear as one who farm gold, craft materials all day ??? there is no sense for it ....if u wish to farm craft materials, or gold go ahead I have no problem....but stop crying here that u can not get the monster set from vCoS or u can not do vtrial, vDSA, vMA, and u wanna buy it....
go there and spend tons of food, pots, repair kits, time till u get the full clear and the gear what u want.... they are not that hard as u think u need only to practice go there with some friends and try it out ......
u want best gear without a minim effort ...

This would be a perfectly fair system is there was other highly desirable unique gear that could only be gotten from say...a solo tanking trial, or that you could only get from a high end crafting questline that requires 9 traits....or a fishing questline that requires master angler...but there is NOT. As it is, ESO is focused exclusively towards DPS. There are no unique rewards like vMA weapons for tanking or crafting or fishing, or healing, or stealing, etc. Do you see the problem? Let me guess, you play mainly DPS toons and have completed vMA multiple times right? Go try tanking it, you cant even make it past the first boss simply because the DPS check is too much. You can survive all day long, but you cant progress. Its true with a good basic character build you can equip DPS gear on a tank, swap a few skills and breeze on past....but then you arent tanking any more. I will fully support vMA weapons being BoP if ESO introduces unique gear locked behind a 9 trait crafter wall, a master angler fishing wall, etc that are also BoP. Until then, I cant support it. If that happened though all those people who only DPS would cry about how it takes 18 months(roughly) to reach 9 traits and how they cant get whatever cool gear ESO would lock behind that wall. The whole point of my argument is that people dont play this game the same, and all gear should be available to everyone, regardless of how they play, even if "available" means expensive for the non-preferred method. The argument that only people who have completed vMA "deserve" vMA weapons is like me saying they should introduce jewelry crafting, but that to do so requires 9 traits in blacksmithing and that the resulting gold jewelry is BoP, because those who cant craft don't "deserve" the jewelry. Do you fail to see the other side of this? Or are you just so used to having a monopoly on the good gear that you refuse to?

You act like grinding gold and crafting materials all day is easy. Sure...playing vMA may require a lot more muscle memory and skill in fights...but it doesnt take anywhere CLOSE to the TIME needed to farm 1 million gold or learn 9 traits on everything. You seem to think that other people's time invested in doing things other than damage is worth less than yours....this is simply not true and never will be.

1. You can do vMA in heavy armor
2. You don't need vMA weapons for anything
3. A vMA weapon won't help you fish better
4. Git gud

CTSCold

Sjizzle wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, I would also like BoP to die. Let's provide PVP players a way to gear up for PVP without having to spend months in PVE running the same dungeon over and over. And let's provide everyone a way to try lots of different build ideas, which is a big part of the fun in this game for some of us, while preserving their sanity.

why ??? do u saw any PVE players on this forum who cry that they need to do pvp for Vigor, warhorn etc. etc. ? go and do pve if need gear... stop acting like a kid... If u need something pot a decent amount of effort to get them !!!!

There have been tons of threads from PVE players complaint about having to enter PVP for skills. Hell we had one last week about having to enter PVP for a holiday achievement. But that's off topic and a useless, bottomless can of worms to open.

On topic I wouldn't be against them reverting to the old system of all gear except trial,VDSA,VMA being boe. They could also put the master weapons back in the top 10 Cyrodiil leaderboard rewards (if leaderboards were revamped to require more than just AP farming) but I'd rather see a total revamp of the system from top to bottom with different tiers of gear being from different places and crafting gear being equal to dropped gear from start to normal trials. But that's for another thread.

Eyesinthedrk

I spent well over 2 months with a minimum of 1 run a day trying to get my last piece of bsw.

Then ZOS nerfs bsw. So alcast makes a netch build. So now I get to spend the next two months farming dark shades. Because if you want to run end game content on a regular basis, you need to run with endgame guilds. And if you want to run with them then you are required to have BIS gear.

Of course I also like to pvp and with no cp I need regen gear. so I also need to farm CoH for litch. But is that better than plasm since I have no stam regen either? Guess I'll have to farm mazzatun too just to find out.

So all I "want" to do is pvp and trials. Maybe play some vvardenfel. All I "get" to do is farm the same crappy dungeonsover and over and over again for the gear.

SonofThunder

YargHound wrote: »

There was once a golden era in ESO where you could sell almost anything. Now almost everything is Bind on Pickup and if you are like me RNG hates you. Zeni you have so much content in the game it seems counter productive to force someone to run a dungeon 30+ times for a drop set, especially considering that garbage drops most like Prosperous or Training on a CP160 piece. NOBODY wants Prosperous. 30+ runs and still haven't assembled a 5 piece with decent traits. Think it over guys and gals. Do you want people to spend all their time farming or playing?

This is the main reason I barely play the game. I'd love to outfit all of my 11 lvl 50 toons with great gear and theorycraft but I don't have time to grind the same crap over and over again to get prosperous traits.

IcyDeadPeople

Sjizzle wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Yes, I would also like BoP to die. Let's provide PVP players a way to gear up for PVP without having to spend months in PVE running the same dungeon over and over. And let's provide everyone a way to try lots of different build ideas, which is a big part of the fun in this game for some of us, while preserving their sanity.

why ??? do u saw any PVE players on this forum who cry that they need to do pvp for Vigor, warhorn etc. etc. ? go and do pve if need gear... stop acting like a kid... If u need something pot a decent amount of effort to get them !!!!

You only need 188,000 AP to get AR 6 (Vigor, Caltrops, Guard, Purge, Barrier, War Horn unlocked) and 308,000 to get AR 7 (proxy det, scorching flare unlocked)

Even if you have no clue about PVP, it's pretty easy to earn 25k AP/hour which would unlock almost anything PVE players would need in 7 hours or so. I don't think people use proxy det in PVE, but if you want that, it would take a few more hours.

On the other hand, if you want to gear up with what is needed for most PVP builds it requires spending months farming the same PVE dungeons over and over. It's not like this is some epic achievement that I managed to keep running the same dungeon over and over countless times. It's not even challenging, just extremely boring and not a fun way to play this game.

If any PVE player wants to try some sets from Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds or Imperial City, they can all be purchased from other players with gold.

josiahva

Dubhliam wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Sjizzle wrote: »

I like this system with BoP not BoE.....

why all who do the hardest content to have the same gear as one who farm gold, craft materials all day ??? there is no sense for it ....if u wish to farm craft materials, or gold go ahead I have no problem....but stop crying here that u can not get the monster set from vCoS or u can not do vtrial, vDSA, vMA, and u wanna buy it....
go there and spend tons of food, pots, repair kits, time till u get the full clear and the gear what u want.... they are not that hard as u think u need only to practice go there with some friends and try it out ......
u want best gear without a minim effort ...

This would be a perfectly fair system is there was other highly desirable unique gear that could only be gotten from say...a solo tanking trial, or that you could only get from a high end crafting questline that requires 9 traits....or a fishing questline that requires master angler...but there is NOT. As it is, ESO is focused exclusively towards DPS. There are no unique rewards like vMA weapons for tanking or crafting or fishing, or healing, or stealing, etc. Do you see the problem? Let me guess, you play mainly DPS toons and have completed vMA multiple times right? Go try tanking it, you cant even make it past the first boss simply because the DPS check is too much. You can survive all day long, but you cant progress. Its true with a good basic character build you can equip DPS gear on a tank, swap a few skills and breeze on past....but then you arent tanking any more. I will fully support vMA weapons being BoP if ESO introduces unique gear locked behind a 9 trait crafter wall, a master angler fishing wall, etc that are also BoP. Until then, I cant support it. If that happened though all those people who only DPS would cry about how it takes 18 months(roughly) to reach 9 traits and how they cant get whatever cool gear ESO would lock behind that wall. The whole point of my argument is that people dont play this game the same, and all gear should be available to everyone, regardless of how they play, even if "available" means expensive for the non-preferred method. The argument that only people who have completed vMA "deserve" vMA weapons is like me saying they should introduce jewelry crafting, but that to do so requires 9 traits in blacksmithing and that the resulting gold jewelry is BoP, because those who cant craft don't "deserve" the jewelry. Do you fail to see the other side of this? Or are you just so used to having a monopoly on the good gear that you refuse to?

You act like grinding gold and crafting materials all day is easy. Sure...playing vMA may require a lot more muscle memory and skill in fights...but it doesnt take anywhere CLOSE to the TIME needed to farm 1 million gold or learn 9 traits on everything. You seem to think that other people's time invested in doing things other than damage is worth less than yours....this is simply not true and never will be.

1. You can do vMA in heavy armor
2. You don't need vMA weapons for anything
3. A vMA weapon won't help you fish better
4. Git gud

Sigh...I HAVE completed vMA, multiple times...even done so in heavy armor. That is entirely NOT the point I am trying to make here. How about we lock the next vMA or master type weapon behind a 9-trait crafter wall and it will be bind-on-creation, require you to have 50 in all crafting professions, you will have to to have completed 100 master crafting writs, and have ALL crafting related achievements then? Sounds fair... git gud at crafting. You can ALREADY buy the monster helms you want from the golden vendor in cyrodiil...you dont have to run the content to get them....people STILL run the content all day long farming those helms. You people act like running hard content entitles you to some type of special treatment...it doesn't. I love to play hard content...I don't do it for bragging rights, or skins, or even gear(though I do of course farm gear while there). I do it because its CHALLENGING. If I want to stroke my own ego, thats what achievements are for. Why are you people really so afraid of less skilled people having access to vMA weapons and the like? Who cares if some unskilled CP160 is running around with a vMA weapon they bought? What does it matter to you? Does it make your achievement worth less? Did the fact they bought it from a guild trader make it so you never completed vMA? I often see people link a vMA weapon as a way to brag about the fact they completed the content....but it doesn't matter....that's what achievements are for. So answer this question honestly...why does it matter to you if someone has a weapon even though they never set foot in the arena? There are plenty of people running around with a full Akavari motif who never set foot in Cyrodiil to get it. There are people running around using a full set of Spinners who never farmed it from Malabal Tor world bosses, there are all kinds of people in this game wearing gear they never "earned" vMA is NO DIFFERENT in kind, only in degree. If vMA weapons are BoP, maybe the correct way to go is to make EVERYTHING BoP, that way everyone has to earn every single item out there. In fact, you shouldnt be able to sell anything to anyone at all....then its all "earned". Its hypocritical to support one particular item being BoP, but not the rest....and THAT is the point....people who support BoP for some items but not others are being hypocrtitical

Sjizzle

josiahva wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Sjizzle wrote: »

I like this system with BoP not BoE.....

why all who do the hardest content to have the same gear as one who farm gold, craft materials all day ??? there is no sense for it ....if u wish to farm craft materials, or gold go ahead I have no problem....but stop crying here that u can not get the monster set from vCoS or u can not do vtrial, vDSA, vMA, and u wanna buy it....
go there and spend tons of food, pots, repair kits, time till u get the full clear and the gear what u want.... they are not that hard as u think u need only to practice go there with some friends and try it out ......
u want best gear without a minim effort ...

This would be a perfectly fair system is there was other highly desirable unique gear that could only be gotten from say...a solo tanking trial, or that you could only get from a high end crafting questline that requires 9 traits....or a fishing questline that requires master angler...but there is NOT. As it is, ESO is focused exclusively towards DPS. There are no unique rewards like vMA weapons for tanking or crafting or fishing, or healing, or stealing, etc. Do you see the problem? Let me guess, you play mainly DPS toons and have completed vMA multiple times right? Go try tanking it, you cant even make it past the first boss simply because the DPS check is too much. You can survive all day long, but you cant progress. Its true with a good basic character build you can equip DPS gear on a tank, swap a few skills and breeze on past....but then you arent tanking any more. I will fully support vMA weapons being BoP if ESO introduces unique gear locked behind a 9 trait crafter wall, a master angler fishing wall, etc that are also BoP. Until then, I cant support it. If that happened though all those people who only DPS would cry about how it takes 18 months(roughly) to reach 9 traits and how they cant get whatever cool gear ESO would lock behind that wall. The whole point of my argument is that people dont play this game the same, and all gear should be available to everyone, regardless of how they play, even if "available" means expensive for the non-preferred method. The argument that only people who have completed vMA "deserve" vMA weapons is like me saying they should introduce jewelry crafting, but that to do so requires 9 traits in blacksmithing and that the resulting gold jewelry is BoP, because those who cant craft don't "deserve" the jewelry. Do you fail to see the other side of this? Or are you just so used to having a monopoly on the good gear that you refuse to?

You act like grinding gold and crafting materials all day is easy. Sure...playing vMA may require a lot more muscle memory and skill in fights...but it doesnt take anywhere CLOSE to the TIME needed to farm 1 million gold or learn 9 traits on everything. You seem to think that other people's time invested in doing things other than damage is worth less than yours....this is simply not true and never will be.

1. You can do vMA in heavy armor
2. You don't need vMA weapons for anything
3. A vMA weapon won't help you fish better
4. Git gud

Sigh...I HAVE completed vMA, multiple times...even done so in heavy armor. That is entirely NOT the point I am trying to make here. How about we lock the next vMA or master type weapon behind a 9-trait crafter wall and it will be bind-on-creation, require you to have 50 in all crafting professions, you will have to to have completed 100 master crafting writs, and have ALL crafting related achievements then? Sounds fair... git gud at crafting. You can ALREADY buy the monster helms you want from the golden vendor in cyrodiil...you dont have to run the content to get them....people STILL run the content all day long farming those helms. You people act like running hard content entitles you to some type of special treatment...it doesn't. I love to play hard content...I don't do it for bragging rights, or skins, or even gear(though I do of course farm gear while there). I do it because its CHALLENGING. If I want to stroke my own ego, thats what achievements are for. Why are you people really so afraid of less skilled people having access to vMA weapons and the like? Who cares if some unskilled CP160 is running around with a vMA weapon they bought? What does it matter to you? Does it make your achievement worth less? Did the fact they bought it from a guild trader make it so you never completed vMA? I often see people link a vMA weapon as a way to brag about the fact they completed the content....but it doesn't matter....that's what achievements are for. So answer this question honestly...why does it matter to you if someone has a weapon even though they never set foot in the arena? There are plenty of people running around with a full Akavari motif who never set foot in Cyrodiil to get it. There are people running around using a full set of Spinners who never farmed it from Malabal Tor world bosses, there are all kinds of people in this game wearing gear they never "earned" vMA is NO DIFFERENT in kind, only in degree. If vMA weapons are BoP, maybe the correct way to go is to make EVERYTHING BoP, that way everyone has to earn every single item out there. In fact, you shouldnt be able to sell anything to anyone at all....then its all "earned". Its hypocritical to support one particular item being BoP, but not the rest....and THAT is the point....people who support BoP for some items but not others are being hypocrtitical

buy an item from trade = 0 effort to get that item .....
I respect your dedication for profession but vet dungeons HM and vtrials gear must be BoP... not all players must have the same gear best gear always must have the players who do the hardest content simple !!! and btw achivs. can be copy paste in chat !!!!!!!

Roovin

Nope.

The very best items in the game should be only available to the people who can complete the tasks to do them.