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The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/
June 19th patch notes (can a Dev explain some of the changes to veteran Halls of Fabrication?)
Saturn
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So I was reading the patch notes and am really confused by several changes to the new trial:
Two of the changes I have highlighted are the "stun correctly applies even if you block", which to me seems incredibly silly, as blocking these attacks wasn't super easy (as you had to time it according with the tell), but would let you stay in melee range if you could figure it out (i.e. giving you counter to the move). With these changes the ranged lightning staff heavy attack builds are just made even better as they can stay at range and still do good dps, while melee dpses are getting the short end of the stick, by being forced to A: either eat the stun or B: go ranged and have lower dps and it hurts stam builds, which seems counter to the idea of having so many magicka drains in the trial that does seem to encourage a resurgence of stam builds.
Secondly, the health increase of the Pinnacle boss and the increased frequency of the Liminal Transformer (which is a group wipe mechanic if you fail, similar to the backyard in the Rakkhat fight) are kind of frustrating to me as all the times I've beaten this boss it has taken between 14-18 minutes, and with this change, not only will it be a lot easier to end up wiping the group, but the fight will also become longer. Considering that there are 5 boss fights in Halls of Fabrication, that usually tend to take upward of 10 minutes each if they are fast and 15-20min on average (at least in my groups, I'm sure some are faster), these changes are pretty frustrating. I don't think the new trial is incredibly difficult, but it takes such a long time to progress through it since the fights are incredibly long, like for example usually when my groups would wipe on the 2nd boss around the 30% mark we'd have wasted 15minutes or more, meaning that you get maybe 5-6 attempts on a boss within a 2 hour timeframe.
I don't think these changes are really making the trial harder, but just more annoying and pushing the meta further towards the afforementioned lightning staff builds. I do like the new trial and the focus on mechanics over being able to dps through them, but I think these changes are bad and nonsensical and it would definitely be nice to hear what the people making these changes are thinking, similar to the developer notes on the major Update notes.
I haven't beaten the trial yet, but I've cleared to the first two bosses several times, though I would like to hear the perspective of someone who has cleared the trial and what they think about these changes.
EDIT 1: My thoughts after trying out the changes
After seeing these changes I can say that a lot of them really suck. The health increase (he now has 67million, up from 51ish before) alone is annoying, but the shift from 30% to 40% health to trigger the spinners, means that you end up with a very messy fight and so many mechanics (spinners, conduits, add increase) that last almost half the fight. Couple that with the top phase, which now happens 1 minute (down from a 1½ before) after the top group returns, means that there is a lot less group dps, because you have 4 dpses out of the main fight a lot more often than before, making the removal of the invulnerability shield only a slight nerf on the boss, and not as much as most of us thought it would be. The damage increase from the steam is also very consistently killing the main tank during the palm strike phase, which is quite frustrating.
I still don't think the fight, nor its mechanics, are incredibly difficult by themselves, but the fact that a lot of groups spend so much time on it, means that you have ample opportunity to screw up. For example, I had a run that lasted nearly 19 minutes, where we wiped on 8% boss health, that is a lot of time to waste on a wipe, and personally the most time I have ever spent on a boss fight, which says a lot considering I have in past spent 13 minutes on 4manning the top boss in vHRC. Personally I think they should not have increased the health at the same time as upping the percentage triggers for the mechanics, since it ends up being a double buff, considering 40% of 51mill vs. 40% of 67mill is quite a substantial difference.
I think that if ZOS wanted to make the trial harder they should focus on the last boss, which from everything I've heard is one of the easier fights, which explains why all groups I know to have cleared the 4th bosses have ended up beating the trial. Although, it does seem to be a constant in ESO that the last boss in a trial is not the biggest challenge (hardmodes not included), so I suppose that this is just how it is.
EDIT 2: The developers listened to feedback!
Very happy to see that these nonsensical changes were reverted, especially the inability to properly counter the stun.
Edited by Saturn on June 26, 2017 11:08AM Hunter-Killer Fabricants
- The stun effect from Static Cascade now applies correctly even if you block.
Pinnacle Factotum
- Increased the health of the Pinnacle Factotum in Veteran difficulty.
- The Liminal Transformer will now overcharge and be active more often in Veteran difficulty.
- The stun effect from Shockwave now applies correctly even if you block.
Two of the changes I have highlighted are the "stun correctly applies even if you block", which to me seems incredibly silly, as blocking these attacks wasn't super easy (as you had to time it according with the tell), but would let you stay in melee range if you could figure it out (i.e. giving you counter to the move). With these changes the ranged lightning staff heavy attack builds are just made even better as they can stay at range and still do good dps, while melee dpses are getting the short end of the stick, by being forced to A: either eat the stun or B: go ranged and have lower dps and it hurts stam builds, which seems counter to the idea of having so many magicka drains in the trial that does seem to encourage a resurgence of stam builds.
Secondly, the health increase of the Pinnacle boss and the increased frequency of the Liminal Transformer (which is a group wipe mechanic if you fail, similar to the backyard in the Rakkhat fight) are kind of frustrating to me as all the times I've beaten this boss it has taken between 14-18 minutes, and with this change, not only will it be a lot easier to end up wiping the group, but the fight will also become longer. Considering that there are 5 boss fights in Halls of Fabrication, that usually tend to take upward of 10 minutes each if they are fast and 15-20min on average (at least in my groups, I'm sure some are faster), these changes are pretty frustrating. I don't think the new trial is incredibly difficult, but it takes such a long time to progress through it since the fights are incredibly long, like for example usually when my groups would wipe on the 2nd boss around the 30% mark we'd have wasted 15minutes or more, meaning that you get maybe 5-6 attempts on a boss within a 2 hour timeframe.
I don't think these changes are really making the trial harder, but just more annoying and pushing the meta further towards the afforementioned lightning staff builds. I do like the new trial and the focus on mechanics over being able to dps through them, but I think these changes are bad and nonsensical and it would definitely be nice to hear what the people making these changes are thinking, similar to the developer notes on the major Update notes.
I haven't beaten the trial yet, but I've cleared to the first two bosses several times, though I would like to hear the perspective of someone who has cleared the trial and what they think about these changes.
EDIT 1: My thoughts after trying out the changes
After seeing these changes I can say that a lot of them really suck. The health increase (he now has 67million, up from 51ish before) alone is annoying, but the shift from 30% to 40% health to trigger the spinners, means that you end up with a very messy fight and so many mechanics (spinners, conduits, add increase) that last almost half the fight. Couple that with the top phase, which now happens 1 minute (down from a 1½ before) after the top group returns, means that there is a lot less group dps, because you have 4 dpses out of the main fight a lot more often than before, making the removal of the invulnerability shield only a slight nerf on the boss, and not as much as most of us thought it would be. The damage increase from the steam is also very consistently killing the main tank during the palm strike phase, which is quite frustrating.
I still don't think the fight, nor its mechanics, are incredibly difficult by themselves, but the fact that a lot of groups spend so much time on it, means that you have ample opportunity to screw up. For example, I had a run that lasted nearly 19 minutes, where we wiped on 8% boss health, that is a lot of time to waste on a wipe, and personally the most time I have ever spent on a boss fight, which says a lot considering I have in past spent 13 minutes on 4manning the top boss in vHRC. Personally I think they should not have increased the health at the same time as upping the percentage triggers for the mechanics, since it ends up being a double buff, considering 40% of 51mill vs. 40% of 67mill is quite a substantial difference.
I think that if ZOS wanted to make the trial harder they should focus on the last boss, which from everything I've heard is one of the easier fights, which explains why all groups I know to have cleared the 4th bosses have ended up beating the trial. Although, it does seem to be a constant in ESO that the last boss in a trial is not the biggest challenge (hardmodes not included), so I suppose that this is just how it is.
EDIT 2: The developers listened to feedback!
Pinnacle FactotumHunter-Killer Fabricants
- Reverted the Pinnacle Factotum's maximum health back to what it was before the previous patch; it will now match what was in patch v3.0.8.
- Reverted the change to Shockwave so the stun can once again be blocked.
- Reverted the change to Static Cascade so the stun can once again be blocked.
Very happy to see that these nonsensical changes were reverted, especially the inability to properly counter the stun.
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Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
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Most wipes are during the execute phase so yes, it is horribly long from my experience. But as someone above noticed, it doesn't have a shield anymore during the up phase so maybe it's a 'remedy'. -
theamazingx✭✭✭✭He doesn't shield anymore. That's what it's making up for.
As for the stuns you were blocking, rolling is better. You can roll within the aoe and still get a dodge. -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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It occurs to me that, if you're trying to display how long the fight takes, maybe using a sped up video isn't the best way to defend its length.Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO. -
Elrosahir✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
It occurs to me that, if you're trying to display how long the fight takes, maybe using a sped up video isn't the best way to defend its length.
Its normal time.
We need only around 6min. Ariana Elensar - Magicka Sorcerer
Aldmeri Dominion - EU - PC -
AlcastClass Representativestarkerealm wrote: »
It occurs to me that, if you're trying to display how long the fight takes, maybe using a sped up video isn't the best way to defend its length.
Its normal time. We need only around 6min.
Not every guild has as much dps as yours does.Edited by Alcast on June 19, 2017 12:58PMMy Website! https://www.AlcastHQ.com // ESO-Sets! https://eso-sets.com // ESO-Skillbook! https://eso-skillbook.com // Dwemer Automaton Discord Bot! https://dwemerautomaton.com/ // ESO-Housing! https://eso-housing.com/
Cesille -- Redguard Templar // Xeloki -- Redguard DK // Cezille -- Altmer Templar // Cathamalexiaqotinissiza -- Redguard Sorcerer // Szane -- Magicka Sorcerer // Test Subject Z -- Magicka Nightblade // and many more...
AchievementsWorlds 1st Godslayer
Worlds 1st vBRP Speedrun, No Death, No Sigil "The Unchained" clear
Worlds 1st vBRP clear in MM // Worlds 1st vBRP Speedrun clear // Worlds 1st vBRP No Death clear /Worlds 1st vBRP No Sigils clear
Worlds 1st vCR Gryphon Heart Achievement (No Death+HM+Speedrun) in SS
Worlds 1st vCR clear in SS // World 1st +1,2,3 clear in SS // Worlds 1st vCR Speedrun // Worlds 1st vCR No Death
Worlds 1st vAS HARDMODE clear in CWC
Worlds 1st vAS clear in CwC // Worlds 1st vAS + 1 Llothis clear in CwC // Worlds 1st vAS + 1 Felms clear in CwC
Worlds 1st HoF Tick-Tock Tormentor in HotR
Worlds First HoF Stress Tested in HotR // Worlds First Hof Well-Oiled Machine in HotR
Worlds 1st Halls of Fabrication clear // Worlds 1st Halls of Fabrication Hardmode clear // Worlds 1st Halls of Fabrication Speedrun
Worlds #1 vMoL Score 165456 in HS // Worlds #1 vSO Score 173761 in HS // Worlds #1 vAA Score 145157 in HS
Worlds #1 vMoL Score 163308 in OT // Worlds #1 vSO Score 171353 in OT// Worlds #1 vAA Score 144177 in OT // Worlds #1 vHRC Score 154149 in OT
Worlds #1 vMoL Score 150882 in SotH // Worlds #1 vSO Score 153121 in SotH // Worlds #1 vAA Score 121093 in SotH // Worlds #1 vHRC Score 128815 in SotH
Worlds #1 vMoL Score 93699 in DB // Worlds #1 vSO Score 159083 in DB
Worlds #1 vMoL Score 86828 in TG
Worlds 1st Guild to complete ALL vMoL achievments // Worlds 1st vMoL clear [VR16] // Worlds 1st vMoL speed run [VR16]
Worlds 1st vMoL No-Death // Worlds 2nd vMoL HM
Worlds 1st vMSA Stamina Clear (Templar) // Worlds 1st vMSA Stamina no Death (DK) // Worlds 2nd vMSA Stamina no Death (NB)
Worlds 1st vSO Speedrun // Worlds 2nd vSO Hardmode. -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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This one wont be as bad as you think it will cause you're getting purged anyway, being purged will remove the CC.The stun effect from Static Cascade now applies correctly even if you block.
I think this one will be way worseThe stun effect from Shockwave now applies correctly even if you block.#MOREORBS -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Health increases make me sad, this just makes min/max and animation cancelled DPS more of a requirement.
What an odd thing to say! Trials are the content in the game specifically intended for people who enjoy those things. The people who don't want to do that already have the vast majority of PVE content tailored for them. It would be terribly disheartening for those of us who enjoy min-maxing and executing the perfect rotation if these things came to be superfluous in trials.Former 7-day PVP campaign regular, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamsorc/stamplar/mageblade. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements. -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭You must have missed the part where its no longer shielded during up phase...
@birch44
No, I did read that, but top phase doesn't last that long and they are way more frequent now, so if they hadn't done this, it would have been a ridiculously long fight due to the invulnerable phase being near constant. -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
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I find it crudely ironic that a 6 minute fight is considered a "burn", but I suppose that is also a clear sign of how long the fight normally is.Edited by Saturn on June 21, 2017 12:43PM -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
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This one wont be as bad as you think it will cause you're getting purged anyway, being purged will remove the CC.The stun effect from Static Cascade now applies correctly even if you block.
I think this one will be way worseThe stun effect from Shockwave now applies correctly even if you block.
Yeah the 2nd boss' stun is a pain, and I guess punishes the entire group moreso than 1st boss cascade, since the most common strat for the Pinnacle I've seen is the group standing behind him. -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Health increases make me sad, this just makes min/max and animation cancelled DPS more of a requirement.
What an odd thing to say! Trials are the content in the game specifically intended for people who enjoy those things. The people who don't want to do that already have the vast majority of PVE content tailored for them. It would be terribly disheartening for those of us who enjoy min-maxing and executing the perfect rotation if these things came to be superfluous in trials.
That is still completely possible to do without making these changes though. The thing I like about vHalls is that it's mostly possible to complete without having super DPS, compared to vMaw, where only people who min/maxed out their *** beat it (at least within the first bout of clears). -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not worried about the top phase happening more frequently. The boss not being shielded will compensate for the health increase, I'd imagine, so the fight will last about the same.
The top phase is pretty easy, though, once people have gotten some practice with it. Wipes from top phase are pretty uncommon, in my experience. The chaos of the final phase is what usually wipes a group, and having that final phase start earlier is a little troubling.PC/NA ― GM of Nightfighters
PC/EU ― Member of WipeKings
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 45395 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
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- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6)
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- Kyne's Aegis: 229415 (NA) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God
- Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator
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Media: YouTube ― Twitch -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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First bunch of clears with VMOL were terribly slow (no alkosh, minor slayer bugged/no one had it, no infal, not much debuffs going on, no grothdarr/ilamrbis, no destro ulti) people actually had to do lunar on non hardmode.Health increases make me sad, this just makes min/max and animation cancelled DPS more of a requirement.
What an odd thing to say! Trials are the content in the game specifically intended for people who enjoy those things. The people who don't want to do that already have the vast majority of PVE content tailored for them. It would be terribly disheartening for those of us who enjoy min-maxing and executing the perfect rotation if these things came to be superfluous in trials.
That is still completely possible to do without making these changes though. The thing I like about vHalls is that it's mostly possible to complete without having super DPS, compared to vMaw, where only people who min/maxed out their *** beat it (at least within the first bout of clears).#MOREORBS -
Elrosahir✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
It occurs to me that, if you're trying to display how long the fight takes, maybe using a sped up video isn't the best way to defend its length.
Its normal time. We need only around 6min.
Not every guild has as much dps as yours does.
and? what is a long fight? for me more is a long fight 30min +
ESO has so much fights that only need few minutes.Ariana Elensar - Magicka Sorcerer
Aldmeri Dominion - EU - PC -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭After seeing these changes I can say that a lot of them really suck. The health increase (he now has 67million, up from 51ish before) alone is annoying, but the shift from 30% to 40% health to trigger the spinners, means that you end up with a very messy fight and so many mechanics (spinners, conduits, add increase) that last almost half the fight. Couple that with the top phase, which now happens 1 minute (down from a 1½ before) after the top group returns, means that there is a lot less group dps, because you have 4 dpses out of the main fight a lot more often than before, making the removal of the invulnerability shield only a slight nerf on the boss, and not as much as most of us thought it would be. The damage increase from the steam is also very consistently killing the main tank during the palm strike phase, which is quite frustrating.
I still don't think the fight, nor its mechanics, are incredibly difficult by themselves, but the fact that a lot of groups spend so much time on it, means that you have ample opportunity to screw up. For example, I had a run that lasted nearly 19 minutes, where we wiped on 8% boss health, that is a lot of time to waste on a wipe, and personally the most time I have ever spent on a boss fight, which says a lot considering I have in past spent 13 minutes on 4manning the top boss in vHRC. Personally I think they should not have increased the health at the same time as upping the percentage triggers for the mechanics, since it ends up being a double buff, considering 40% of 51mill vs. 40% of 67mill is quite a substantial difference.
I think that if ZOS wanted to make the trial harder they should focus on the last boss, which from everything I've heard is one of the easier fights, which explains why all groups I know to have cleared the 4th bosses have ended up beating the trial. Although, it does seem to be a constant in ESO that the last boss in a trial is not the biggest challenge (hardmodes not included), so I suppose that this is just how it is.
