Just go out of red circle / L2P

techprince

Non-CP campaign, No Vampirism.



1) Just CC it - One breakthrough gives 6 seconds of immunity, enough to kill 5-6 atleast with shields on.
2) Go out of AOE - Gap closers are still a thing.
Whats there to counter when someone uses this ult, cc breaks, then constantly teleports to you?

Sandman929

techprince wrote: »

Non-CP campaign, No Vampirism.



1) Just CC it - One breakthrough gives 6 seconds of immunity, enough to kill 5-6 atleast with shields on.
2) Go out of AOE - Gap closers are still a thing.
Whats there to counter when someone uses this ult, cc breaks, then constantly teleports to you?

Someone using it isn't a problem at all, some-5 or some-6 with coordinated negates, soft and hard cc's and VD exploding everywhere as they run at Major Expedition speed and immovability is a problem.
The coordinated group is the counter to uncoordinated zerg, however. It's just a shame that solo and small scalers have to melt just like everyone else.

Turelus

I wish they made elemental resistance more substantial. So you could counter this by actually stacking some jewellery glyphs.

techprince

There is absolutely no way to balance this ultimate as long as it follows the caster.

Sandman929

techprince wrote: »

There is absolutely no way to balance this ultimate as long as it follows the caster.

I don't know about that. Are the Warden Sleet Storm groups unbalanced yet? They might be at some point. Lower damage but the AOE moves and gives Major Protection.

Minalan

You died to a bomb blade using EoTS, proxy det, and vicious death. The latter two don't do any damage if you're solo, and the first isn't worth wasting unless you're in a big crowd.

Maybe stop zerging so much? Try to spread out? Stay out of the blob? Join smaller groups instead of big, dumb herds?

Kas

techprince wrote: »

Whats there to counter when someone uses this ult, cc breaks, then constantly teleports to you?

on LA mag classes: resto staff ult + shield spams
on HA classes: enough HP and selfheal. Will be a pressure phase during which the other guy has the upper hand, but once endured, you're safe for quite some time and ready to ult.
on MA: better be mobile enough and have the surrounding to properly kite and get our quickly. it can also be worthwhile to use a hard-hitter with cc (e.g. dawnbreaker/incap) to force CC-break+shield on the enemy and thus investing more actions tha you.
for groups: warden ice / remembrance / enough HP to live and spread or negate+counter

imho shieldwall can also work nicely when available. use vigor to heal through the damage whiel you put out pressure yourself. works very well in duels with the HA strategy above: I estimate ultimate levels and always keep a defensive one to use vs eye which will leave an extra offensive dawnbreaker for me in between. I guess it's the same for LA: Trade ult vs ult to survive (still under pressure) but trade a cheaper ult so that you get an extra offensive shot between two eyes

Biro123

Move faster?

(trying to think what movie that was from.... Got it! Prince of Thieves!)

techprince

Kas wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Whats there to counter when someone uses this ult, cc breaks, then constantly teleports to you?

on LA mag classes: resto staff ult + shield spams
on HA classes: enough HP and selfheal. Will be a pressure phase during which the other guy has the upper hand, but once endured, you're safe for quite some time and ready to ult.
on MA: better be mobile enough and have the surrounding to properly kite and get our quickly. it can also be worthwhile to use a hard-hitter with cc (e.g. dawnbreaker/incap) to force CC-break+shield on the enemy and thus investing more actions tha you.
for groups: warden ice / remembrance / enough HP to live and spread or negate+counter

imho shieldwall can also work nicely when available. use vigor to heal through the damage whiel you put out pressure yourself. works very well in duels with the HA strategy above: I estimate ultimate levels and always keep a defensive one to use vs eye which will leave an extra offensive dawnbreaker for me in between. I guess it's the same for LA: Trade ult vs ult to survive (still under pressure) but trade a cheaper ult so that you get an extra offensive shot between two eyes

All the mentioned "counters" are for 1 vs 1 encounters. Even then i CC'ed the caster, dodge rolled out of AOE radius, shielded my self and nothing was enough. The caster simply kept gap closing again and again.

Also, what about multiple enemies using this AND gap closing at the same time?

techprince

Biro123 wrote: »

Move faster?

(trying to think what movie that was from.... Got it! Prince of Thieves!)

Like gap closers doesnt exists right?

techprince

Minalan wrote: »

You died to a bomb blade using EoTS, proxy det, and vicious death. The latter two don't do any damage if you're solo, and the first isn't worth wasting unless you're in a big crowd.

Maybe stop zerging so much? Try to spread out? Stay out of the blob? Join smaller groups instead of big, dumb herds?

That wasnt even a zerg, there was only 1 ally in my vicinity (as you can see by the VD/PD damage).

Xvorg

techprince wrote: »

There is absolutely no way to balance this ultimate as long as it follows the caster.

Bats follow the caster since day 1. If i'ts not EoTS, it's Bats

techprince

Xvorg wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

There is absolutely no way to balance this ultimate as long as it follows the caster.

Bats follow the caster since day 1. If i'ts not EoTS, it's Bats

Yes but bats don't do THAT amount of damage and they have to be a vampire. Which means they are susceptible to Prismatic Onslaught/Fire Damage/Fighter Guild abilities. So they have to give up something... unlike destro ult with 0 downsides.

GreenSoup2HoT

Xvorg wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

There is absolutely no way to balance this ultimate as long as it follows the caster.

Bats follow the caster since day 1. If i'ts not EoTS, it's Bats

Bats deals half the damage and its not fire based... nerf EotS, im fine with bat swarm groups. Or meteor, or soul tether. Anything is better.

Vapirko

There are so many threads about this including my own. It's out of hand, in a huge way. Don't stand in aoe, well sure providing its you agaisnt a sorc unless they use streak as well. Like common, the most powerful aoe in the game and you can use your other abilities while it's up including the most mobile move in the game? Or do people mean just get out of the way when you're being spammed with fear, encase, roots and freakin op cost poisons? Sure, sounds like an l2p issue lol.

Xvorg

techprince wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

There is absolutely no way to balance this ultimate as long as it follows the caster.

Bats follow the caster since day 1. If i'ts not EoTS, it's Bats

Yes but bats don't do THAT amount of damage and they have to be a vampire. Which means they are susceptible to Prismatic Onslaught/Fire Damage/Fighter Guild abilities. So they have to give up something... unlike destro ult with 0 downsides.

Almost everyone at Cyro is Vamp. ETOS just gave some chance to non vamps, but if you shut down ETOS you will get bat swarm groups running with a lit staff.

And since it does less dmg, the ball group will be bigger than current ball groups =/

Asardes

I have been able to stay alive in a full destro staff and proxi detonation zerg by simply spamming harness magicka. It refills your magicka right up if the damage is magic or elemental costing next to nothing. If nobody casts a physical or other attack that stuns you there's no danger if you are magicka as well. But for stamina only roll dodge is effective. As for the lone bomb-blade with Vicious Death/Clever Alchemist/Grothdarr it's only dangerous with lots of people standing close together. I've been nuked a few times standing on resource and keep flags. VD proc range is only 4m. I learned to simply keep shields and resistance buffs up while the flag is being taken.

Chilly-McFreeze

To quote myself:

the issue is that people can close the gap you could create too easily with a combination of immovability pots, rapids, gap closers, streak or any of that.
So, my solution would be to handle it similar to the "relique status" in battle grounds. Disable the options to gap close, streak or gain an expedition bonus while the ability is active.
This would work wonders and wouldn't be an overkill. If it's still "OP" then may add a movement speed malus like while blocking.
To be able to shut down a 250 ultimate skill with a simple bash would be too much.

Jitterbug

techprince wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

There is absolutely no way to balance this ultimate as long as it follows the caster.

Bats follow the caster since day 1. If i'ts not EoTS, it's Bats

Yes but bats don't do THAT amount of damage and they have to be a vampire. Which means they are susceptible to Prismatic Onslaught/Fire Damage/Fighter Guild abilities. So they have to give up something... unlike destro ult with 0 downsides.

So do eots spammers. Their pride

techprince

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

To quote myself:

the issue is that people can close the gap you could create too easily with a combination of immovability pots, rapids, gap closers, streak or any of that.
So, my solution would be to handle it similar to the "relique status" in battle grounds. Disable the options to gap close, streak or gain an expedition bonus while the ability is active.
This would work wonders and wouldn't be an overkill. If it's still "OP" then may add a movement speed malus like while blocking.
To be able to shut down a 250 ultimate skill with a simple bash would be too much.

Unpurgable silence on the caster while the effect is active, now thats a good solution.

Sandman929

techprince wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

To quote myself:

the issue is that people can close the gap you could create too easily with a combination of immovability pots, rapids, gap closers, streak or any of that.
So, my solution would be to handle it similar to the "relique status" in battle grounds. Disable the options to gap close, streak or gain an expedition bonus while the ability is active.
This would work wonders and wouldn't be an overkill. If it's still "OP" then may add a movement speed malus like while blocking.
To be able to shut down a 250 ultimate skill with a simple bash would be too much.

Unpurgable silence on the caster while the effect is active, now thats a good solution.

I'd rather have the damage brought into line with other duration AoE ultis and a utility added to it.

tonemd

Hmmm that grothdar, Eye, Lotus combo does look mighty tasty. I wonder if taking the stam morph would be better to get that snare+empower bonus.

Kas

techprince wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Whats there to counter when someone uses this ult, cc breaks, then constantly teleports to you?

on LA mag classes: resto staff ult + shield spams
on HA classes: enough HP and selfheal. Will be a pressure phase during which the other guy has the upper hand, but once endured, you're safe for quite some time and ready to ult.
on MA: better be mobile enough and have the surrounding to properly kite and get our quickly. it can also be worthwhile to use a hard-hitter with cc (e.g. dawnbreaker/incap) to force CC-break+shield on the enemy and thus investing more actions tha you.
for groups: warden ice / remembrance / enough HP to live and spread or negate+counter

imho shieldwall can also work nicely when available. use vigor to heal through the damage whiel you put out pressure yourself. works very well in duels with the HA strategy above: I estimate ultimate levels and always keep a defensive one to use vs eye which will leave an extra offensive dawnbreaker for me in between. I guess it's the same for LA: Trade ult vs ult to survive (still under pressure) but trade a cheaper ult so that you get an extra offensive shot between two eyes

All the mentioned "counters" are for 1 vs 1 encounters. Even then i CC'ed the caster, dodge rolled out of AOE radius, shielded my self and nothing was enough. The caster simply kept gap closing again and again.

Also, what about multiple enemies using this AND gap closing at the same time?

i also mentioned that. remembrance / storm / counter with your own group's eyes. if you get rolled over by a group while solo, kite earlier and keep your distance - unless you're a chat flamer, groups won't chase you specifically too often and the few times it happens, well it jsut happens and you shake your head, shrug, and go on.

if you run within your faction's random zerg and get focused by multiple destros, stop running with the random zerg.

finally the original question is "..when someone breaks cc ...." and the screenshot further indicates you had problems with a single ult. i don't know what you expect. some magic sauce so that the 250cost ultimate does nothing to you even if multiple people use it on one player? apart form that, if you move properly and it's multiple baddies, the 1v1 "counters" can also work against 2 or 3 enemies.

raasdal

My go-to counter is to kill whoever has it running. Seems to work alot of the times.

And i am not even joking. When people pop that ultimate, they have a tendency to think they are unkillable, and that everyone will run away from them. And they expect to chase you down. So when i gapclose in for the CC and the burst, they are usually not ready for it.

GeorgeBlack

The solution to problems like that are not in tinkering with stats.

Zos needs to realize that this so call play as you want is only real when you play solo doing quests on the open world map.

Mmorpgs need limitations and class identitiy (combat role)
A damage dealer cannot have sustain stats/skills
A tank cannot burst or aoe kill with drains (magDK magNB).
1/h shield cannot be the defence mode for 70% of the builds

At the momment all we have are the same builds.
Sustain stats and miminal atk stats
Proc gear set.
Animation cancel burst for dmg (not combat prowess)

We really need a forum section highly moderated by developers in which argument fighting and ego doesn't belong in topics.
Every forum user replies to disagree. You disagree? Let the devs judge. You have a different opinion? Start a topic in which you demonstrate why things are working currently and there is no need for changes.
Can we get such a section?

techprince

Kas wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Whats there to counter when someone uses this ult, cc breaks, then constantly teleports to you?

on LA mag classes: resto staff ult + shield spams
on HA classes: enough HP and selfheal. Will be a pressure phase during which the other guy has the upper hand, but once endured, you're safe for quite some time and ready to ult.
on MA: better be mobile enough and have the surrounding to properly kite and get our quickly. it can also be worthwhile to use a hard-hitter with cc (e.g. dawnbreaker/incap) to force CC-break+shield on the enemy and thus investing more actions tha you.
for groups: warden ice / remembrance / enough HP to live and spread or negate+counter

imho shieldwall can also work nicely when available. use vigor to heal through the damage whiel you put out pressure yourself. works very well in duels with the HA strategy above: I estimate ultimate levels and always keep a defensive one to use vs eye which will leave an extra offensive dawnbreaker for me in between. I guess it's the same for LA: Trade ult vs ult to survive (still under pressure) but trade a cheaper ult so that you get an extra offensive shot between two eyes

All the mentioned "counters" are for 1 vs 1 encounters. Even then i CC'ed the caster, dodge rolled out of AOE radius, shielded my self and nothing was enough. The caster simply kept gap closing again and again.

Also, what about multiple enemies using this AND gap closing at the same time?

i also mentioned that. remembrance / storm / counter with your own group's eyes. if you get rolled over by a group while solo, kite earlier and keep your distance - unless you're a chat flamer, groups won't chase you specifically too often and the few times it happens, well it jsut happens and you shake your head, shrug, and go on.

if you run within your faction's random zerg and get focused by multiple destros, stop running with the random zerg.

finally the original question is "..when someone breaks cc ...." and the screenshot further indicates you had problems with a single ult. i don't know what you expect. some magic sauce so that the 250cost ultimate does nothing to you even if multiple people use it on one player? apart form that, if you move properly and it's multiple baddies, the 1v1 "counters" can also work against 2 or 3 enemies.

Keep your distance... seriously? like nobody can CC you, nobody can gap close while ulting right?
"Use eye of your own", so you are telling us to use the OP skill to counter an OP skill and kill it before it kills you right? that's not how balance works.
Stop running with random zergs... like thats going to stop an enemy from ulting and gap closing right?
The screenshot indicates the exact problem of how this skill is BS. When NONE of the counters are enough, there is something very wrong with it. This exact problem comes from 2H ultimate onsalught as well.
Its funny how you keep defending this.

Aedaryl

techprince wrote: »

Non-CP campaign, No Vampirism.



1) Just CC it - One breakthrough gives 6 seconds of immunity, enough to kill 5-6 atleast with shields on.
2) Go out of AOE - Gap closers are still a thing.
Whats there to counter when someone uses this ult, cc breaks, then constantly teleports to you?

It's a L2P issue yeah.

A single shield like harness is enough to stop EotS, and then you have 100% of your magicka.

Seriously, every one can counter EoTS, it's not a strong ultimate at all when used alone.

It have a 2s before starting to deal damage => Telegraphed.

I will teach you how to counter it :

If you are a nightblade = shadow image and enjoy, or dodge by cut anim healing, or use harness.

If you are a sorc : shieldstacking or dodge with healing cut anim.

If you are a templar : dodge with cut anim or BoL spam

If you are a dk, just outheal it.

Of course, if it's not a nightblade gapclosing, you can move out of range by sprintning, streaking.

Mist form work really good too.

But one of the best counter is stay in, and kill the ennemi, they often lose their mind and go in a ololol damage mode, they forgot to be defensive and die, or stay on defensive and don't kill you, because EoTS don't hurt a lot alone.

So, l2p

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Should have been a vampire!

Say all you want about 25% more fire damage but I can sit inside one of these things, hit mist form and laugh as it tickles me.

Sandman929

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Should have been a vampire!

Say all you want about 25% more fire damage but I can sit inside one of these things, hit mist form and laugh as it tickles me.

And then the negate, and the roots...and the laughing stops. I swear, I must melt about 40 people a night who "never die to storms".

Sandman929

I still think some people are talking about EotS as though the complaints are about a single caster using it in a vacuum. You're not misting away to anywhere when a ball group of 4-5 storms with negates and roots and stuns rolls over you.

Dk_needs_a_buff

Simple solution to that ultimate. While active your movement speed os reduced by 50%