PvE Overland Difficulty: I started the fight, Environmental damage ended it

ArchMikem

Okay, so maybe it was my DoTs wrecking him and not the Environmental stuff, but it was still kind of a sobering moment when the nail was finally starting to be driven in about how incredibly easy and simple the PvE Questing has become, especially for fully CP'd characters. I was going through Cadwell's Silver on an alt, questing Glenumbra when at this point in time I reached Foulchu. My character, which was a "For Fun" Sword & Shield StamKnight DPS build at the time, so it's not even legitimately specced for DPS, defeated the Boss in 14 seconds. And for the last 8 seconds of the fight, I stood there and watched.

I may come here and complain about end game content being way too extremely punishing and difficult for the likes of me, and I still feel like those complaints are somewhat valid when it concerns content like Vet Trials and Vet Maelstrom. But even though I can understand brand new players with no grasp on combat mechanics and no Champion points can have a hard time of it, the Overland PvE is nothing more than tissue paper with weapons taped to them to end game characters. The only exception being World Bosses, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2n0SMSKZqM

bebynnag

and the transition begins

you will soon be walking around with your flawless title, soloing world bosses getting frustrated at the noobs who strugle to kill a mudcrab

mrm8029

My brother and I have talked about this before. The vast majority of the time the bosses can't even finish their taunt before they're dead. It's anticlimactic for sure. "Fools! You will burn in the fires of Obli--- Aghhhh!" Fight done.

ArchMikem

mrm8029 wrote: »

My brother and I have talked about this before. The vast majority of the time the bosses can't even finish their taunt before they're dead. It's anticlimactic for sure. "Fools! You will burn in the fires of Obli--- Aghhhh!" Fight done.

I love it when that happens to me, they're always in the middle of their confident evil monologue, then keel over mid syllable.

Everstorm

mrm8029 wrote: »

My brother and I have talked about this before. The vast majority of the time the bosses can't even finish their taunt before they're dead. It's anticlimactic for sure. "Fools! You will burn in the fires of Obli--- Aghhhh!" Fight done.

Especially when there's a long questline leading up the big confrontation between the hero and the evildoer who is on the verge of destroying the world...

CaptainBeerDude

mrm8029 wrote: »

My brother and I have talked about this before. The vast majority of the time the bosses can't even finish their taunt before they're dead. It's anticlimactic for sure. "Fools! You will burn in the fires of Obli--- Aghhhh!" Fight done.

Don't let your mouth write cheques your ass can't cash...

MLGProPlayer

I saw someone else mention this and thought it was a great idea:

Introduce a difficulty setting that disables CP and scales down your stats. If you want the game to stay easy, you don't have to turn the setting on. But for those that like a little bit of challenge, they can turn it on.

I agree that overland content is a joke right now. Trash mobs die in 1 hit. Quest bosses, delve bosses, etc. die in 2-3 hits. It's not fun.

Nemesis7884

the funny thing is when eso firs released, that fight wasn't that trivial

Kendaric

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

the funny thing is when eso firs released, that fight wasn't that trivial

We didn't have CP back then and softcaps were still in place...

Alcast

Thats the product of people QQing the content is too difficult.


ALL content is still scaled to 300 CP. Yet we sit at a 600+ cap

kunquatb16_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I saw someone else mention this and thought it was a great idea:

Introduce a difficulty setting that disables CP and scales down your stats. If you want the game to stay easy, you don't have to turn the setting on. But for those that like a little bit of challenge, they can turn it on.

I agree that overland content is a joke right now. Trash mobs die in 1 hit. Quest bosses, delve bosses, etc. die in 2-3 hits. It's not fun.

You have to take yourself to crag and do the group content solo just for a solo PvE challenge, would be great if you could choose to make the game harder.

Ahzek

Sadly, to make this content not only challening, but also fun for somewhat experienced players, I feel like just scaling down the player really doesnt amount to much. Most of the overland fights in vanilla ESO are so incredibly simplistic with their mechanics that they will be boring, regardless of how hard you make them.
I can only fight so many copy paste evil (vampire) mages or (not so) skilled warriors with the exact same moves before i just dont care anymore.
This is not that much of an issue for most bosses since craglorn however. Especially orsinium and morrowind have some quite nice quest related boss fights, and most public dungeon bosses are also very intruiging, or rather they could be, were it not for the 10 man farm group steaming through.

MLGProPlayer

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I saw someone else mention this and thought it was a great idea:

Introduce a difficulty setting that disables CP and scales down your stats. If you want the game to stay easy, you don't have to turn the setting on. But for those that like a little bit of challenge, they can turn it on.

I agree that overland content is a joke right now. Trash mobs die in 1 hit. Quest bosses, delve bosses, etc. die in 2-3 hits. It's not fun.

You have to take yourself to crag and do the group content solo just for a solo PvE challenge, would be great if you could choose to make the game harder.

I loved soloing Craglorn. It was the only fun PvE zone. But even there, only half of the content was challenging. They couldn't even give us an entire map of challenging content.

zaria

Alcast wrote: »

Thats the product of people QQing the content is too difficult.


ALL content is still scaled to 300 CP. Yet we sit at a 600+ cap

With an brand new character its not trivial, no will not say its very hard but I tried an new stamina warden on PTS, no crafted sets, no CP no quality food. Was some quest fights I died multiple times in. And I used an rotation.

An downside with one tamriel, with leveling you could make stuff harder and player could come back later, with scaling you don't get stronger fast. With all the bonuses an alt have the same warden soloed group the two morrowind public dungeon group challenges around level 20.

SilverWF

OP, where did you find a boss btw?
That monster - on your clip - is not a boss, not even champ, just a strong monster.

LMar

Be careful what you wish for OP :P

Everstorm

SilverWF wrote: »

OP, where did you find a boss btw?
That monster - on your clip - is not a boss, not even champ, just a strong monster.

And yet he is the main threat to Glenumbra...

Everstorm

Ahzek wrote: »

Sadly, to make this content not only challening, but also fun for somewhat experienced players, I feel like just scaling down the player really doesnt amount to much. Most of the overland fights in vanilla ESO are so incredibly simplistic with their mechanics that they will be boring, regardless of how hard you make them.
I can only fight so many copy paste evil (vampire) mages or (not so) skilled warriors with the exact same moves before i just dont care anymore.
This is not that much of an issue for most bosses since craglorn however. Especially orsinium and morrowind have some quite nice quest related boss fights, and most public dungeon bosses are also very intruiging, or rather they could be, were it not for the 10 man farm group steaming through.

I didn't die once to any of the quest bosses in Morrowind, with a stamblade, the supposed runt of the litter these days. And as for public dungeons: I would love if ESO+ would allow you to get a solo instance of those.

Sharee

ArchMikem wrote: »

Okay, so maybe it was my DoTs wrecking him and not the Environmental stuff, but it was still kind of a sobering moment when the nail was finally starting to be driven in about how incredibly easy and simple the PvE Questing has become, especially for fully CP'd characters.

I finally got werewolf on my new warden so i'm leveling his WW skills... by having all of them slotted in his human form and just killing the mobs using light attacks.

The only skill i am using is leeching vines on my offbar, but even that rarely (if i find an elite mob whose attacks cannot be easily sidestepped). Everything else i just whack/whack to death, and it's not even slow

tinythinker

zaria wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Thats the product of people QQing the content is too difficult.


ALL content is still scaled to 300 CP. Yet we sit at a 600+ cap

With an brand new character its not trivial, no will not say its very hard but I tried an new stamina warden on PTS, no crafted sets, no CP no quality food. Was some quest fights I died multiple times in. And I used an rotation.

An downside with one tamriel, with leveling you could make stuff harder and player could come back later, with scaling you don't get stronger fast. With all the bonuses an alt have the same warden soloed group the two morrowind public dungeon group challenges around level 20.

Yeah level-scaling characters as opposed to content upward does that. Craglorn and the unreleased Murkmire were supposed to be harder content meant for groups or bored players but the former was made solo-friendly and the latter never released.

They updated many mob abilities and gave them cc immunity but basically the game is geared to brand new no CP players with little no or crafted gear and limited MMO experience.

The OP's suggestion of a switch for playing with reduced or no CP might work, but... BUT... not without an incentive/reward other than "don't be bored." Not everyone is bored and many who are still wouldn't used to the toggle anyway just on its own.

Now, if they put something in with a new NPC where you equipped some item or something to amount to what is a challenge mode for some lore-friendly story reason and allowed players to earn something or some things that might work. Available only at something like CP 300 or 400 and over.

For example:

*undaunted (or some other group, some master teacher, etc.) challenge to fight drunk, or while poisoned
*challenge by some daedric prince to get stronger by being afflicted or taking a mark that weakens you
*same as the one right above but you do it to earn favor not to get stronger
*same as above but to help power or charge something, maybe repairing the damage from the soulburst
*same as some of the above but working for a divine or the divines through an intermediary
*similar to others but for some npc group from the Elder Scrolls universe not yet added to the game (Psijic Order for example) or a previously unheard of group

The rewards could be many. Not just more champ points because no. Points for a different non-combat customization system? Unlocking and leveling up subclasses/subraces? Unlocking and leveling up a skill line that would take tons and tons of investment in this new system (with additional skill lines added every 12-16 months)? Or, or, or...

Anyway, a reason to keep playing and to play with more challenge.

AKSb16_ESO2

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

the funny thing is when eso firs released, that fight wasn't that trivial

That must have been when Doshia was hard too... ^^

Majeure

To make this more realistic, you should have done the video on an actual DD character, the fight would've ended on pull.

You make it look like there's actually a fight to be had.

TheRealPotoroo

OP, be fair: the way to kill Foalchu easily has always been to lure him into the flames. Finding that out is the entire point of the earlier Battle of Glenumbra Moors quest.

Vaoh

You can thank the QQing of people who have already mostly left the game for that.

If you can't beat the vast majority of ESO's content with only light attacks, ZOS hasn't catered to their target audience enough. It is what it is.

Franieck

Craglorn is still a cool and challenging place to quest! wish they would make more zones like that

Everstorm

Sharee wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Okay, so maybe it was my DoTs wrecking him and not the Environmental stuff, but it was still kind of a sobering moment when the nail was finally starting to be driven in about how incredibly easy and simple the PvE Questing has become, especially for fully CP'd characters.

I finally got werewolf on my new warden so i'm leveling his WW skills... by having all of them slotted in his human form and just killing the mobs using light attacks.

The only skill i am using is leeching vines on my offbar, but even that rarely (if i find an elite mob whose attacks cannot be easily sidestepped). Everything else i just whack/whack to death, and it's not even slow

Best way to lvl werewolf skills is to stay in the quest instance killing the animals till you're maxed out.

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

OP, be fair: the way to kill Foalchu easily has always been to lure him into the flames. Finding that out is the entire point of the earlier Battle of Glenumbra Moors quest.

The implementation is ludicrous though: during that earlier quest he wails about how fire is so dangerous to him every time you pull him into the fire, yet he follows you into the fire again and again and again...

Aisle9

"Fools, you can't defeat me!"

"Oh, I defeated her... ok, later"

Beardimus

Agreed, that everything could be made a tad tougher. I guess the issue is the whole scaling gig. And CP160-630 is treated the same.

OneTam really opened up the game in a good way but it would be epic if it was just that bit harder at least at CP Cap.

Maybe that's the answer a simple Hard Mode for all PvE content gets flipped on at Cap.

TheRealPotoroo

Everstorm wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Okay, so maybe it was my DoTs wrecking him and not the Environmental stuff, but it was still kind of a sobering moment when the nail was finally starting to be driven in about how incredibly easy and simple the PvE Questing has become, especially for fully CP'd characters.

I finally got werewolf on my new warden so i'm leveling his WW skills... by having all of them slotted in his human form and just killing the mobs using light attacks.

The only skill i am using is leeching vines on my offbar, but even that rarely (if i find an elite mob whose attacks cannot be easily sidestepped). Everything else i just whack/whack to death, and it's not even slow

Best way to lvl werewolf skills is to stay in the quest instance killing the animals till you're maxed out.

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

OP, be fair: the way to kill Foalchu easily has always been to lure him into the flames. Finding that out is the entire point of the earlier Battle of Glenumbra Moors quest.

The implementation is ludicrous though: during that earlier quest he wails about how fire is so dangerous to him every time you pull him into the fire, yet he follows you into the fire again and again and again...

Ludicrous or not, fire is the intended way of killing him easily so of all the possible choices in all of 1T about overland monsters being too weak this is not the one to pick as your poster child.

Rainteal

Vaoh wrote: »

You can thank the QQing of people who have already mostly left the game for that.

If you can't beat the vast majority of ESO's content with only light attacks, ZOS hasn't catered to their target audience enough. It is what it is.

I have often wondered about how many changes we play with today that were requested by people that didn't stick around to live with the changes. That would be an interesting set of data to look at.

ADarklore

It's also interesting when people complain about how they want more challenging content, are still fully spec'd into all CP, high level armor, etc. Then complain when you tell them to remove their CP and downgrade their armor. You don't NEED a 'toggle' to make the game difficult, you have the options to do so, but arrogance and egotism dictate that they cannot nerf themselves, that ZOS must be the ones to "fix" the content to cater to them. Clearly ZOS has listened as they are nerfing the game, but the ones who have felt it the most are the very ones who have complained about making content more difficult- the 'end game' players. Thanks to them we have had resources cut, and all other 'negatives' with this last patch was mostly directed at them. ZOS decided players were doing too much damage with too many resources, the only place this really mattered was 'end game' content, so there you go. Keep complaining and see where it gets you next.