Sorcerer Healer Collection ( Murkmire Updated) * updated new Guide

  • Morvane
    Morvane
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    I think 5 SPC + 5 Worm/Sanctury is way better (add 1 shoulder or Master staves)
    also skills force me to ask questions. Damage skills in heler build? Say NO for DLC-dungeons and not-craglorn trials.
    I'm very interested does this build good in high-end con tent? I mean vDSA, Falkreth, Bloodforge, Hist Shadows, vAS, vMoL, vHoF?

    To be honest I it's not a good idea. First sorc heals are mostly basied off max magicka so if anyone I would do spc and necropotence. The extra healing you could get from sanctury can be almost made up with bone surge skill giving minor vitality.

    There's another checky guy who came up with some alternative loadout for more damage but honestly looking at @troomar variation does seem like superior is damage. I also know other sorc healers or off healers do use nercopotance. This viable for more damage and greater class healers, but less supportive.

    I have no death in almost ever dungeon in game. I think about I missing bloodroot cause I am too lazy and wayrest 1 but that's well a story for another time. I haven't did many trials this month, but it does work very well.. been distracted making gold and working on my other healers. But don't worry, stays true to my style and they are quite original and highlights the strengths that the class can give to say the least. (one of them uses a frost staff ...for good reason).

    I have no death in all dungeons too, these achieves cost nothing.
    but i'm looking for competitive sorc healers build in vBF, vFH, vCoS, vRoM...
    Edited by Morvane on December 16, 2017 3:56PM
    DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
    @morvayn54, PC/EU
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    troomar wrote: »
    I'm playing a Bosmer Sorc Healer too and I would like to add my experience with healing trials. I created my character independently on Tasear's build, but his build helped me a lot with skill variations, equip and other thoughts. I'm only CP 450 and I've healed only normal trials, so keep that in mind. On the other hand, there are no guides by seasoned sorcerer healers for trials. I would like to point out differences between 4-man content (veteran pledges) and trials, because I think it may not be so obvious.

    Equip

    Firstly, I really like the combination of SPC + Worm. I really do. Though SPC + Twiligh Remedy is simply better. I helps you with the big dissadvantage sorc healers have - lack of HoTs. I also use heavy Domihaus Shoulder part. I tried the light version too, but the undaunted passive and heavy armor passive for HP is better than mana recovery.

    As weapon traits I use Powered on both Healing and Destruction Staff.

    Skills
    • Resto Bar

    Combat Prayer - In 4-man content, this is mostly used for the Minor Berserk buff. But in trials it has another very important usage - it heals everyone in front of you for around 6k health! With the combination of Healing Springs you can pull out a lot of healing power.
    Twilight Matriarch - You don't need it in trails, that's a fact. But I keep it on my bars anyway for two reasons: (1) It's something I call "heal tank" button. Matriarch's heal targets two players around you. The target is independent on your position, it's automatic and it prioritize players with low amount of health. It's also incredibly strong heal. That's a perfect solution to heal that 45k HP ball. Tanks generally don't need your heals unless something went wrong. And when something went wrong with the tank, it usually causes a lot of chaos. A perfect situation for this skill! But you may use it only once or twice in whole trial. (2) Passive bonuses for you. The bonuses are nice to have, so even if you don't need the skill itself, you can just have the pet out to boost your stats. If there are new interesting skills in the future, this skill will be probably the first one I would change for something else though. In 4-man content, this skill is useful and you can even use it as your main heal together with Mutagen (in case your team is good and you want to pull out more dps yourself)
    Healing Springs - The main heal of all healers, no doubt. Again, it heals everyone in the target area. It's usually used when ppl are stacked in one place, but you can use it when you are running around. Because you can stack up to 3 effects in one moment, you can predict the path of your team and cast it in front of you. It's not very effective, but it can help you. In 4-man content, it's just an aoe heal.
    Mutagen - Oh man, this skill is bad in trials. I mean, the effect is great and you should definitelly use it, but it's such a pain to keep it up. This skill remainds me every second how sorc healers lack HoTs in general. On the other hand, in 4-man content, this is usually my main heal. And if the dungeon is hard, just support it with some Healing Springs.
    Empowered Ward - Nothing to add

    Ultimate - Absorption Field or Aggresive Warnhorn - I really like Absorption Field, I use it whenever I can. It heals everyone in the bubble and although its heals are quite weak, it ticks twice in a second. It's very useful during "pounding" or "poisoning" phases of some bosses. It can also be used in corridors (when everyone is running around like a headless chicken ... in some trials, corridor fights are much harder than the bosses alone, ehem). And its especially useful when you're the only healer in the trial team. For some trials (nAA, nMoL, or some bosses in other trails) this skill is an overkill though and you will support your team better with Aggressive Warnhorn.

    • Destruction Bar

    Elemental Drain - Nothing to add, usefull everywhere.
    Twilight Matriarch - See above
    Energy Orbs - This is your only skill how you support your team with stamina. You must use it, period. But what it's not so obvious is its healing component. Yes, the healing is weak, but read the description carefully - it heals you and your allies nearby. What is meaningless in 4-man content is really good in trials. Sorc healers lack HoTs and this is a perfect solution, because this is basically your another HoT. Just pop up this skill every few seconds. It synergies with everything - allies can use it to replenish mana + stamina (+ another HoT from Twilight Remedy) and if they don't use it, it just heals them all (and you have more time to keep Mutagen up). The healing component is situational though, but it helps when your team is stacked up.
    Elemental Blockade - What is absolutely necessary in 4-man content is useless in trials. Let any DPS use it. I prefer to support my team with buffs. So instead of this skill I use ... tadaa ... Defensive Rune. Wait, what? Well, the skill is pointless, but it's the cheapest skill to pop up Minor Prophecy buff. I tried to use Dark Conversion for this purpose, but the skill is slow and breaks my rotation. And I don't have mana problems anyway.
    Bone Surge - Cool skill, but not in trials. It affects up to four team mates only. And it requires the synergy button being hit. And it lasts only 10 seconds. Its situational and it's better to let tanks run it. I prefer another skill - Ring of Preservation. I love this skill even more than Absorption Field, and that's something! It affects everybody in the circle and it also helps with stamina. And if your teammates are running around? Use it for yourself! It protects, it regenerates stamina, it lowers the cost of Roll dodge. I use this skill on reuse, there is always a circle somewhere by me :) It has only one major potential issue - it costs a lot of stamina and if you don't watch what's happening around, you may spend the stamina you would need for a break free or a fast roll in the same second, which may cause your death. But I keep spamming it :)

    Ultimate - Overlord. Why? Because we are sorcerers and we can show up our third bar to everyone. Up your bum, templars!

    • Unnarmed Third Bar
    - I'm still experimenting with this bar

    Dark Exchange - Great skill to use in between fights. In 4-man content it's great for speed runs, don't bother with recovery, just pew-pew and Dark Exchange when you run to other pack of mobs. In trials, this is not that useful, because you usually don't do speed runs. But when you hear a templar complaining about mana issues, you can show them. This skill can be a life saver. I also use it to pop up Minor Prophecy buff at the beginning of the fight.
    Sanguine Altar - This is a great skill when you need to mark a Heavy Sack location. Apart from that? Situational, hard to use, slow. I don't like this skill generally, but I keep it on my third bar, because it helps with some corridor fights. I tried to use it on bosses with little success, the casting duration is long and I was interupted most of the time. And being interrupted while on third bar with utility skills? Not a good idea in trials.
    Bounless Storm - In 4-man content this is just an additional to your Dark Exchange and speed runs. You also became a tank (well, half tank at least). In trials I use it as a support when I need to run fast somewhere. I also use it at the beginning of the fight sometimes. I think this skill may be very useful to help you keep yourself alive, but I haven't utilize that yet in trials much.
    Twilight Matriarch - See above
    Echoing Vigor - Yes, this is a stamina heal. Do I use it? Yes, I do. But differently than you probably think. I'm not crazy to try being a stamina healer or incorporating stamina heals in my build. Do you remember my "heal tank" button? So this is my "heal allies when something bad happened and I need to keep them alive until I switch from my third bar to my Resto Bar" button. Yeah, a long name, very situational usage, very niche skill, almost useless. But you can say you use Vigor in trials as a healer. Now on the serious hand, this skill is more useful in 4-man content, because I don't use my third bar in trials much. And Vigor has limited number of targets. So yeah, this is my free slot for trials.

    Note. In some trials (HoF) you need to run Purge. I use this skill on my Destruction Bar instead of Defensive Rune.

    CP distribution

    Generally I use the same distribution as you, Tasear. The only difference I have is Blessed / Elfborn. I don't know how useful is to have them maxed out. I keep them 75 / 75 for now and I spend more points in Staff Expert.

    I hope my experience helps new sorc healers.

    I am quite ashamed of myself not to seen your post till now. I trend to make some intresting trends and get like 30 notifications at a time, but I will be careful for now on. I wonder how @ZOS_GinaBruno does it. I tag her all the time.

    I am quite happy to to see another healer like myself. Now it's a bit late, but do give me the honor of commenting. I do agree that is biggest current weakness for sorc healers the lack of a decent hot. I would like to see blood altar time reduced to one sec, considering it's only say less then 1k heal per a second, then again 45k secs long is 45kish heal is placed right.

    In regards to mutagen, honestly I recently noticed not everyone knows how this skill actually works. As long as you are in range it targets the lowest health ally with some variability if they already have that heal over time on them. That's why we are able to cast it before battles, but it wasn't designed to work that way. It has it's place in trials, dungeons and anywhere for that matter.

    In regards to the solution for sorc healer in trials, I do think I could still improve. First vampire pale skin... awaiting for dlc content human skin to drop, (keep the dream alive). Okay enough with the jokes, I need more experience to say with confident, but I do think quick siphon or magicka siphon (is that even the name). Now was speaking with a dk healer and I as of a few days ago see there might be a better option, but this only talk until tested.

    Instead of mutagen we remove this skill while possibly placing dark deal in a better spot. Now why we did this is so we can output more energy orbs. With good awareness, and positioning this would resolve the issue of hot, and even the lack of people using syneries (so many ... how can they not), but at extreme cost. My thoughts on hand, are might have to consider posions for sustain and support or absorb magikca enchant.


    Back on your current build, if possible I would also get twilight remedy decisive staff while it's also nice to have infused. Decisive is well make overlord bar much easier to manage and it provides higher up times on war horn.

    On the decsive staff I would put the crushing enchant (don't use staff or the enchant with our torug pact wearing tanks)

    Powered staff the one I would use in trials, I would put the spell damage enchant on this for stronger heals.

    Infused is nice to have for sustain, I would put an absorb magicka enchant on this on.



  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Okay give me a sec... seems like we are all on the same time. I need to catch up to the thread again. As before I was responding to the backlog.
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Morvane wrote: »
    troomar wrote: »
    This build is completely viable for all veteran DLC HM dungeons. It's completely viable for normal trials (I also had a chance to solo heal the final boss and some corridor boss fights in Craglorn normal trials. I'm not running veteran trials yet, so I can't say for myself, but Tasear is running them, so I guess it's viable.

    For dungeons, SPC + whatever suits you is fine. For me for normal trials, SPC + Twilight > SPC + Worm. I haven't tried Sanctuary, I don't like +Health and +4% Healing Taken on an armor set (trash stats)

    Damage skills on healer's bar are not for doing damage, but for providing buff/debuff for DPS. Wall of Elements = concussion, Lightning Splash = Huge HoT on demand.

    content like normal trials is vialable nearly for PvP party which lost their way to Cyro and teleported to any craglorn normal. As to me the point is only in DLC content, veteran mode

    also u told that Lightning Splash is for damage but in previous sentence u told about these ability for debuff only, not for dps...
    Note: this ability cant provide rly good dps with all CP in healing

    You are getting us confused.

    @troomar said something different then I did.

    Troomar is right though, but he should of elaborated, though I kinda forgot to mention this as it was more afterthought for me.

    Liquid lighting being a synergy, will provide resources though undaunted command passive from undaunted skill lines to allies via usage. Another indirect effect is using, it will provide 2 ult per usage. By using the twilight remedy set an heal over time that is 24 to 26k on my reading over 10 secs Now as I mentioned it does provide extra though minimull dps it's like 1 or 2k more bringing sorc healer by my estimates to 10k ish dps. As troomar said this important as sorc healers above all else lack heals over time. This what makes twilight remedy the superior supportive set for sorc healers.

    I heard rumors of higher ranking and more progressive sorc healer, so as to say it's viable in all content in the game. Normal trials... i swear I can spam healing springs and nothing else and completely get away with it. In those regards if you aren't reaching 2k at min on your healing springs then I don't think you are competitive healers. I am saying to the audience not you who might glance over this. I seen some healers struggle to heal normal trial. It's not there fault as we do skip most mechs in normals and would of worked otherwise if mechs were followed in normals. As I said though the guildline is reaching about 4k critical ticks I would say for healing springs. Which means at min 2k to 2.5 on base heal from springs.

    I honestly think sanctuary is not a good option in PvE, on warden, templar or sorc healer. I am still looking at the others. For we are speaking of sorc and I want to say we especially don't need it in PvE. Like I said before I would rather take minor vitality from bone surge skill. Onwards, I would take spc and necropotence over sanctuary to see balance over more damage support. Even so, I am willing to listen and discuss why way works and if it's more effective or where it's more effective.
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Morvane wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    I think 5 SPC + 5 Worm/Sanctury is way better (add 1 shoulder or Master staves)
    also skills force me to ask questions. Damage skills in heler build? Say NO for DLC-dungeons and not-craglorn trials.
    I'm very interested does this build good in high-end con tent? I mean vDSA, Falkreth, Bloodforge, Hist Shadows, vAS, vMoL, vHoF?

    To be honest I it's not a good idea. First sorc heals are mostly basied off max magicka so if anyone I would do spc and necropotence. The extra healing you could get from sanctury can be almost made up with bone surge skill giving minor vitality.

    There's another checky guy who came up with some alternative loadout for more damage but honestly looking at @troomar variation does seem like superior is damage. I also know other sorc healers or off healers do use nercopotance. This viable for more damage and greater class healers, but less supportive.

    I have no death in almost ever dungeon in game. I think about I missing bloodroot cause I am too lazy and wayrest 1 but that's well a story for another time. I haven't did many trials this month, but it does work very well.. been distracted making gold and working on my other healers. But don't worry, stays true to my style and they are quite original and highlights the strengths that the class can give to say the least. (one of them uses a frost staff ...for good reason).

    I have no death in all dungeons too, these achieves cost nothing.
    but i'm looking for competitive sorc healers build in vBF, vFH, vCoS, vRoM...

    That's what I mean. This thread contains (I give you credit @troomar :tongue: ) the most competitive sorc builds published. It works everywhere and with easy.
  • troomar
    troomar
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    Well, I'm using your build @Tasear, just with some minor modifications. I'm probably more inclining to a hybrid build with the Circle of Protection spamming. That was the reason I wanted to get more stamina without losing healing power. But I will definitely try the Earthgore monster set.
    Tasear wrote: »
    The overlord function ... it's to apply buffs to allies at the start or when you can find time in longer fights. The playstyle is very chaotic but it most makes sorc most flexible in reacting to various situations.

    Exactly, I have the same issue. I couldn't implement overlord into standard rotation without anyone dying in the process :D, so I'm using it at the beginning of the fight mostly.

    ---

    I think it would really help if this topic was separated into two independent topics (PuG build + Trial build), because it's confusing when someone comes with tweaks. Some tweaks will work for PuG, but won't work for trials.

    ---

    As my first testing impressions to the tweaks I suggested:
    - The higher stamina pool feels good! Totally love it.
    - Bigger heals? So far I don't feel any difference.
    - Lower Max Magicka? So far I don't feel any difference.
    - Lower Max Health? I'm usually the last man standing so this have never been an issue to me (I run and roll dodge a lot :P)
    Tasear wrote: »
    I also know other sorc healers or off healers do use nercopotance.
    I tried Necropotence in the past, it was really bad. But I'm not into Max Magicka much, my treshhold is 30k. I also tried Sorrow's Mother. It was even worse (which surprised me). I tried Healing mage set - bad due to risky playstyle. I tried Seducer - this one was good, I was healing nMoL when I was CP 160 with it :) I also tried the famous "BiS" Julianos - bad. I tried Trinimac and Bahraha's Curse - these were fun, try it for PuG.

    Btw. All the values I listed in the table are with the summon on, that means +8% HP, so yeah, I sitting at <17k HP without my pet and without Ebon Armory bonus.
    Edited by troomar on December 16, 2017 6:51PM
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    troomar wrote: »
    Well, I'm using your build @Tasear, just with some minor modifications. I'm probably more inclining to a hybrid build with the Circle of Protection spamming. That was the reason I wanted to get more stamina without losing healing power. But I will definitely try the Earthgore monster set.
    Tasear wrote: »
    The overlord function ... it's to apply buffs to allies at the start or when you can find time in longer fights. The playstyle is very chaotic but it most makes sorc most flexible in reacting to various situations.

    Exactly, I have the same issue. I couldn't implement overlord into standard rotation without anyone dying in the process :D, so I'm using it at the beginning of the fight mostly.

    ---

    I think it would really help if this topic was separated into two independent topics (PuG build + Trial build), because it's confusing when someone comes with tweaks. Some tweaks will work for PuG, but won't work for trials.

    ---

    As my first testing impressions to the tweaks I suggested:
    - The higher stamina pool feels good! Totally love it.
    - Bigger heals? So far I don't feel any difference.
    - Lower Max Magicka? So far I don't feel any difference.
    - Lower Max Health? I'm usually the last man standing so this have never been an issue to me (I run and roll dodge a lot :P)
    Tasear wrote: »
    I also know other sorc healers or off healers do use nercopotance.
    I tried Necropotence in the past, it was really bad. But I'm not into Max Magicka much, my treshhold is 30k. I also tried Sorrow's Mother. It was even worse (which surprised me). I tried Healing mage set - bad due to risky playstyle. I tried Seducer - this one was good, I was healing nMoL when I was CP 160 with it :) I also tried the famous "BiS" Julianos - bad. I tried Trinimac and Bahraha's Curse - these were fun, try it for PuG.

    Btw. All the values I listed in the table are with the summon on, that means +8% HP, so yeah, I sitting at <17k HP without my pet and without Ebon Armory bonus.

    Interesting... interesting, I happen to have gold infused twilight remedy for big from testing with my infused issue. Wasn't a great plan at the time to test that way, but maybe this will work out. If I update I will give you appropriate credits for the modifications. On those same regards, I will separate the trial version. This needs future analysis, but I do agree twilight remedy was best choice of gear for trials and dungeons.

    Mother Sorrow doesn't work because sorc heals mostly based off max magicka. I won't comment much on nerco as while I do have gold jewelry even... I never had a chance to personally get a feel for it. Funny story on healing mage, I actually had this set gold back when only went to equivalent of cp 140. It was before the dawn of twilight remedy and many other healing set options. Seducer is fun for any healer, but as sorcs I don't think we really need it. Sorc have quite large magicka pools overall with sustainable passives. Julinaos I used to level so other the other's at one point, but I also used deadric tricky and redistributor simply for fun and anyalis. But in final regards to that set we already have spell damage passive that does what this set so not as worth it.

    On point back on your build, I saw you are using powered staff. I would honestly consider transmute it to decisive or get another healing staff of twilight remedy. It makes overlord rotation so much easier while actually providing more support. Back on point it's still quite usable with powered, but takes more practice and good prediction with excellent reaction time. Using decisive allows for more creative and adaptive game play on the third bar. Keep powered for trials though.
  • troomar
    troomar
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    Tasear wrote: »
    If I update I will give you appropriate credits for the modifications.

    Yay, I will be famous! :)

    Anyway, I was thinking about the Divines / Infused again and tried some tests (theory-crafting, not in game) with these results:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(1)~~~~~~~~~(2)
    Max Magicka~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~36658~~~~~~~35830
    Healing Springs Power~~~~~~~~~~~2411~~~~~~~~2415

    (1) 4x Divines, 3x Infused on big parts, Health+Magicka food (double-stat food), all gold
    (2) 7x Divines, Health+Magicka food (double-stat food), all gold

    Now, what I was thinking about, you get more power for your heals (0,16%), but you lose Max Magicka. On the premise that the power increase is negligible, isn't +828 Max Magicka just better, therefore Infused > Divines?

    I'm fully aware this is min-max nitpicking and it basically doesn't matter, but the Divines vs. Infused war has been fighting for a long time... so I couldn't resist.
    Tasear wrote: »
    I would honestly consider transmute it to decisive
    I will try it when I get another staff, i will also change my enchantment to Weapon Damage.
  • Morvane
    Morvane
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    I think 5 SPC + 5 Worm/Sanctury is way better (add 1 shoulder or Master staves)
    also skills force me to ask questions. Damage skills in heler build? Say NO for DLC-dungeons and not-craglorn trials.
    I'm very interested does this build good in high-end con tent? I mean vDSA, Falkreth, Bloodforge, Hist Shadows, vAS, vMoL, vHoF?

    To be honest I it's not a good idea. First sorc heals are mostly basied off max magicka so if anyone I would do spc and necropotence. The extra healing you could get from sanctury can be almost made up with bone surge skill giving minor vitality.

    There's another checky guy who came up with some alternative loadout for more damage but honestly looking at @troomar variation does seem like superior is damage. I also know other sorc healers or off healers do use nercopotance. This viable for more damage and greater class healers, but less supportive.

    I have no death in almost ever dungeon in game. I think about I missing bloodroot cause I am too lazy and wayrest 1 but that's well a story for another time. I haven't did many trials this month, but it does work very well.. been distracted making gold and working on my other healers. But don't worry, stays true to my style and they are quite original and highlights the strengths that the class can give to say the least. (one of them uses a frost staff ...for good reason).

    I have no death in all dungeons too, these achieves cost nothing.
    but i'm looking for competitive sorc healers build in vBF, vFH, vCoS, vRoM...

    That's what I mean. This thread contains (I give you credit @troomar :tongue: ) the most competitive sorc builds published. It works everywhere and with easy.

    well, do you comleted listed vetDLC with sorcerer healer or not? Do you completed Challenger DLC meta-achievments with this build or not? If yes, I would be very interested, if no I go my way
    Edited by Morvane on December 17, 2017 12:54PM
    DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
    @morvayn54, PC/EU
  • FrancisCrawford
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    troomar wrote: »
    Twilight Matriarch - See above
    Echoing Vigor - Yes, this is a stamina heal. Do I use it? Yes, I do. But differently than you probably think. I'm not crazy to try being a stamina healer or incorporating stamina heals in my build. Do you remember my "heal tank" button? So this is my "heal allies when something bad happened and I need to keep them alive until I switch from my third bar to my Resto Bar" button. Yeah, a long name, very situational usage, very niche skill, almost useless. But you can say you use Vigor in trials as a healer. Now on the serious hand, this skill is more useful in 4-man content, because I don't use my third bar in trials much. And Vigor has limited number of targets. So yeah, this is my free slot for trials.

    Why do you need Vigor as an emergency heal when you already have Twilight Matriarch on the same bar?
  • troomar
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    Why do you need Vigor as an emergency heal when you already have Twilight Matriarch on the same bar?

    Vigor is a joke, forget it.

    But I do use it. Maybe the word "emergency" is wrong, it's rather "prevention". The point is that Matriarch is a burst heal which you use after something happens. Vigor is a HoT which you use before something bad happens. Now if you look at my third bar, you can see there are two skills that require 1.5s to cast. Yes, I could cancel the casting and use Matriarch, but that's a bad solution plus you spend more time on third bar recasting the original ability, and that's not desirable. And because sorcs don't have any other HoT available (except slow Mutagen), then Vigor here you go.

    The rotation looks like this:
    Overload (go to bar 3) -> Vigor -> Blood Altar (and/or Dark Conversion) -> Overload (back to bar 2)

    Mutagen and Vigor stack.
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Morvane wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    I think 5 SPC + 5 Worm/Sanctury is way better (add 1 shoulder or Master staves)
    also skills force me to ask questions. Damage skills in heler build? Say NO for DLC-dungeons and not-craglorn trials.
    I'm very interested does this build good in high-end con tent? I mean vDSA, Falkreth, Bloodforge, Hist Shadows, vAS, vMoL, vHoF?

    To be honest I it's not a good idea. First sorc heals are mostly basied off max magicka so if anyone I would do spc and necropotence. The extra healing you could get from sanctury can be almost made up with bone surge skill giving minor vitality.

    There's another checky guy who came up with some alternative loadout for more damage but honestly looking at @troomar variation does seem like superior is damage. I also know other sorc healers or off healers do use nercopotance. This viable for more damage and greater class healers, but less supportive.

    I have no death in almost ever dungeon in game. I think about I missing bloodroot cause I am too lazy and wayrest 1 but that's well a story for another time. I haven't did many trials this month, but it does work very well.. been distracted making gold and working on my other healers. But don't worry, stays true to my style and they are quite original and highlights the strengths that the class can give to say the least. (one of them uses a frost staff ...for good reason).

    I have no death in all dungeons too, these achieves cost nothing.
    but i'm looking for competitive sorc healers build in vBF, vFH, vCoS, vRoM...

    That's what I mean. This thread contains (I give you credit @troomar :tongue: ) the most competitive sorc builds published. It works everywhere and with easy.

    well, do you comleted listed vetDLC with sorcerer healer or not? Do you completed Challenger DLC meta-achievments with this build or not? If yes, I would be very interested, if no I go my way

    Yes...how many ways can I say yes?
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    troomar wrote: »
    Why do you need Vigor as an emergency heal when you already have Twilight Matriarch on the same bar?

    Vigor is a joke, forget it.

    But I do use it. Maybe the word "emergency" is wrong, it's rather "prevention". The point is that Matriarch is a burst heal which you use after something happens. Vigor is a HoT which you use before something bad happens. Now if you look at my third bar, you can see there are two skills that require 1.5s to cast. Yes, I could cancel the casting and use Matriarch, but that's a bad solution plus you spend more time on third bar recasting the original ability, and that's not desirable. And because sorcs don't have any other HoT available (except slow Mutagen), then Vigor here you go.

    The rotation looks like this:
    Overload (go to bar 3) -> Vigor -> Blood Altar (and/or Dark Conversion) -> Overload (back to bar 2)

    Mutagen and Vigor stack.

    Instead try throwing a few orbs and mutgen will target the lowest health ally.
  • troomar
    troomar
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    @Tasear

    Ok, so I've been testing my changes (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/post/quote/349428/comment_4715782) further with these results:

    - Absolutely no issues with Magicka
    - Higher Stamina totally worth it! I feel like I can fly over the battlefield (no, I don't do drugs, not even skooma)
    - Lower Health not an issue except bad PuG groups (more in the spoiler section)
    Generally, there is no problem with 17k health at all. The only exception is when you get bad people in your PuG that totally ignore mechanics. There are some mechanics you can't do yourself and you have to rely on others. For example in FG II at the first boss when you get chained, you will survive with 18k+ health, but not with 17k. There are more of these here and there in other dungeons. So for beginners I would recommend 18k+.

    I've also made few more changes:
    1) I became a vampire. Since on stage 1 it doesn't affect you at all, there is no reason not being a vampire. For PuGs, go with stage 1, for (some) Trials, go stage 2-4. Switching between stages is super easy and fast.
    2) I swapped Overload to Bar 1! I can't believe I didn't do it earlier. Now it became so convenient to use it.

    I usually stay on bar 1 most of the time, so when I wanted to use my utility (Boundless Storm ^^) I had to go to bar 2 and then Overload, then back to bar 2 and back to bar 1. So much time wasted. Now I can just go Bar 1 <-> Overload or Bar 1 <-> Bar 2.

    With this change you only lose Resto Ultimate and that doesn't matter, because it's useless in pve. Moreover, you free up your ultimate slot on Destro staff. Not super useful thought, but still better than Resto Ulti.

    Here is my current setup (https://imgur.com/a/PQUrh):
    0KjsizS.jpg
  • Morvane
    Morvane
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    Yesterday I met sorc healer in vBf it was awfull. She didnt know about tactic but ask us to do all these things and be strong team. One of our guys were first time in vBF so my patience go over when this healer skip all tactic and just spam springs while need to interrupt boss. We kicked him and easily complete dungeon with new healer
    DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
    @morvayn54, PC/EU
  • Valykc
    Valykc
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    I posted this in your original post, so if changes were made then I apologize...

    @Tasear hey this is FalseTheory from your guild, I dig the build but I would change your back Bar Lightning Staff glyph and here’s why:

    I have tanked dungeons with the guild a few times and on my Tank I run Torug’s and infused crusher enchant, when you apply your crusher it would overwrite my crusher and actually create less penetration.

    That’s just my two thoughts. I think berserker enchant would pair nice for extra spell damage or return stamina glyph and then maybe you could switch races to Argonian and use tri pots plus the Argonian passive for stamina sustain.

    Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!

    Edit: although I would agree that for solo, non Torug’s/infused crusher Tank, or 3 dps content, crusher would be your best bet.
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Valykc wrote: »
    I posted this in your original post, so if changes were made then I apologize...

    @Tasear hey this is FalseTheory from your guild, I dig the build but I would change your back Bar Lightning Staff glyph and here’s why:

    I have tanked dungeons with the guild a few times and on my Tank I run Torug’s and infused crusher enchant, when you apply your crusher it would overwrite my crusher and actually create less penetration.

    That’s just my two thoughts. I think berserker enchant would pair nice for extra spell damage or return stamina glyph and then maybe you could switch races to Argonian and use tri pots plus the Argonian passive for stamina sustain.

    Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!

    Edit: although I would agree that for solo, non Torug’s/infused crusher Tank, or 3 dps content, crusher would be your best bet.

    :sweat_smile: I already answered you in guild. But yeah really need update it. But didn't make it easy to update. Takes quite significant time.

    In this case, clearly a clearical error. Using beseaker glyphs on one of three resto staff of twlight remedy. (Infused, powered, descisive). I keep crushing on descisive and build because it designed to be adaptive build for pugs and providing most offensive support with 1 case where it doesn't work I just switch staves. As such it's mostly powered in trials...unless we split up.
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Morvane wrote: »
    Yesterday I met sorc healer in vBf it was awfull. She didnt know about tactic but ask us to do all these things and be strong team. One of our guys were first time in vBF so my patience go over when this healer skip all tactic and just spam springs while need to interrupt boss. We kicked him and easily complete dungeon with new healer

    So what you are saying is what? I didn't explain to my teammate not communicate, but decided to kick them when things weren't going well because of class. Sounds like you had bigger issues then the healer.

    Google healer memes. There's jokes for when you blame the healer.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    Yesterday I met sorc healer in vBf it was awfull. She didnt know about tactic but ask us to do all these things and be strong team. One of our guys were first time in vBF so my patience go over when this healer skip all tactic and just spam springs while need to interrupt boss. We kicked him and easily complete dungeon with new healer

    So what you are saying is what? I didn't explain to my teammate not communicate, but decided to kick them when things weren't going well because of class. Sounds like you had bigger issues then the healer.

    Google healer memes. There's jokes for when you blame the healer.

    Some are quite funny

    thi-when-youre-healing-someone-and-they-die-anyway-mii-5179631.png


    when-you-the-healer-and-you-see-the-tankhealinghimself-10080813.png

    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 19, 2018 10:51AM
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    Yesterday I met sorc healer in vBf it was awfull. She didnt know about tactic but ask us to do all these things and be strong team. One of our guys were first time in vBF so my patience go over when this healer skip all tactic and just spam springs while need to interrupt boss. We kicked him and easily complete dungeon with new healer

    So what you are saying is what? I didn't explain to my teammate not communicate, but decided to kick them when things weren't going well because of class. Sounds like you had bigger issues then the healer.

    Google healer memes. There's jokes for when you blame the healer.

    Some are quite funny

    thi-when-youre-healing-someone-and-they-die-anyway-mii-5179631.png


    when-you-the-healer-and-you-see-the-tankhealinghimself-10080813.png

    Nah it's dps in eso. Like why won't you let me cure your boo boos :'(
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Morvane wrote: »
    Yesterday I met sorc healer in vBf it was awfull. She didnt know about tactic but ask us to do all these things and be strong team. One of our guys were first time in vBF so my patience go over when this healer skip all tactic and just spam springs while need to interrupt boss. We kicked him and easily complete dungeon with new healer

    So what you are saying is what? I didn't explain to my teammate not communicate, but decided to kick them when things weren't going well because of class. Sounds like you had bigger issues then the healer.

    Google healer memes. There's jokes for when you blame the healer.

    Some are quite funny

    thi-when-youre-healing-someone-and-they-die-anyway-mii-5179631.png


    when-you-the-healer-and-you-see-the-tankhealinghimself-10080813.png

    Nah it's dps in eso. Like why won't you let me cure your boo boos :'(

    how about these?

    1kgyhy.jpg

    tumblr_nvt5o4nh4L1rodb7ko1_500.jpg

    is-healer-does-more-damage-than-several-dpss.jpg
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    @Tasear where is the updated version of the build - is this thread current?
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus - VR16 (780CP) Dunmer Dual Wield MagSorc [Conquering Hero]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-02-18 / 16-02-18
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus - Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus - Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting for : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Lunar Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | TradersOfNirn2
    Trials : Saviors

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus - L38 Dunmer Magsorc enjoying legit use of Kyne, sub 50 BG and exploring the game anew
    Heals-With-Pets - CP160+ Argonian Sorc Healer
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    @Tasear where is the updated version of the build - is this thread current?

    At moment it is most current.

    The staff is descive with crushing or beseaker. Crushing assumed pug and tank not using torug.
  • troomar
    troomar
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    Whooa, another update, and a positive one!

    I was testing my changes and made a short video about my rotation I'm using right now. I'm fully sustainable for infinite time with these results (uptime for 12-man trial if I was the only healer in the party):

    Party buffs
    Minor Endurance 91%
    Minor Protection 91%
    Spell Power Cure 88%
    Minor Intellect 83%
    Minor Resolve 77%
    Minor Ward 77%
    Minor Berserk 77%

    Self buffs
    Major Resolve 89%
    Major Ward 89%
    Empowered Ward 89%
    Major Expedition 33%
    Major Mending 25%

    Debuffs
    Major Breach 100%
    Minor magickasteal 100%

    Of course in trials I have to break the rotation sometimes and my overload won't be available 100% time, but that's not a big deal. Please note that the main change is I'm running Overload on Resto bar.

    Rotation:
    Elemental Drain -- Ring of Preservation -- Elemental Orb -- (swap) -- Combat Prayer* -- Combat Prayer* -- Empowered Ward* --
    (Heavy attack) -- Healing Springs -- Healing Springs -- Overload -- Boundless Storm -- Overload -- Mutagen -- (swap) -- Elemental Orb -- (swap) -- Combat Prayer* -- Combat Prayer* -- Empowered Ward* -- (Heavy attack) -- Healing Springs -- Healing Springs -- Mutagen -- (swap)
    (Rince and repeat)

    * = animation cancelling

    Link to the video:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Lcy1MaOPRic
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    troomar wrote: »
    Whooa, another update, and a positive one!

    I was testing my changes and made a short video about my rotation I'm using right now. I'm fully sustainable for infinite time with these results (uptime for 12-man trial if I was the only healer in the party):

    Party buffs
    Minor Endurance 91%
    Minor Protection 91%
    Spell Power Cure 88%
    Minor Intellect 83%
    Minor Resolve 77%
    Minor Ward 77%
    Minor Berserk 77%

    Self buffs
    Major Resolve 89%
    Major Ward 89%
    Empowered Ward 89%
    Major Expedition 33%
    Major Mending 25%

    Debuffs
    Major Breach 100%
    Minor magickasteal 100%

    Of course in trials I have to break the rotation sometimes and my overload won't be available 100% time, but that's not a big deal. Please note that the main change is I'm running Overload on Resto bar.

    Rotation:
    Elemental Drain -- Ring of Preservation -- Elemental Orb -- (swap) -- Combat Prayer* -- Combat Prayer* -- Empowered Ward* --
    (Heavy attack) -- Healing Springs -- Healing Springs -- Overload -- Boundless Storm -- Overload -- Mutagen -- (swap) -- Elemental Orb -- (swap) -- Combat Prayer* -- Combat Prayer* -- Empowered Ward* -- (Heavy attack) -- Healing Springs -- Healing Springs -- Mutagen -- (swap)
    (Rince and repeat)

    * = animation cancelling

    Link to the video:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Lcy1MaOPRic

    :tongue: I am telling you descisive the way to go.

    But yes big thank you to combat team! The changes seem interesting overall.

    Interesting changes
    Blood atlar is going be four times it's size. That's a game changer for everyone. Somebody going to use it.

    Bone shield and bone surge, I do wonder and worry about other morph since bone surge is insane with Major vality ( 30% healing received) and 100% shields for allies not to mention if you use with twlight remedy.

    Not so interesting things
    Synergies are going to once every 30 secs instead of 20. This his a big hit to synergy sets.

    Off balance well yes it's a bit of a hamper on boss fights and making wonder if a charged staff with shock will be needed or well at least in some parts. Thinking about trait and glyphs.
  • troomar
    troomar
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    There is a lot unspoken about the rotation and trials, but I just wanted to prove that the changes are viable, not to overwhelm this topic with figures. There is also an issue with healing spikes in the rotation :) I'm preparing more rigorous research about it and I will release it later.

    Anyway, I know about the changes in the upcoming update and most of them are very welcome. Although I don't really like to use skills with casting time in my rotation, blood altar is a skill I use sometimes. And I use it exactly for the purpose it's going to be buffed, so this is a game changer.

    Update 3.3.3: Synergies now have a 20 second cool-down for each individual Synergy, reduced down from 30 seconds.
    God bless you ZoS! :)
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    troomar wrote: »
    There is a lot unspoken about the rotation and trials, but I just wanted to prove that the changes are viable, not to overwhelm this topic with figures. There is also an issue with healing spikes in the rotation :) I'm preparing more rigorous research about it and I will release it later.

    Anyway, I know about the changes in the upcoming update and most of them are very welcome. Although I don't really like to use skills with casting time in my rotation, blood altar is a skill I use sometimes. And I use it exactly for the purpose it's going to be buffed, so this is a game changer.

    Update 3.3.3: Synergies now have a 20 second cool-down for each individual Synergy, reduced down from 30 seconds.
    God bless you ZoS! :)

    Blood altar is 45 secs or so. Just do it during phases. I usually put at start or when it's fixing to get real. But it's a huge heal over time now.

    Also take note of off balance is up to 5 secs on bosses now
    Edited by Visermmy on January 29, 2018 9:49PM
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    Probably a bit complex of a build, but here's simple beginner verision of it.

    Before Champion

    Gear (things that were easy to get)

    Sanctuary or healer set (From banished cells or can be purchased or farmed in nDSA)
    Seducer (infused) (crafted 3 trait set)
    random staves
    Powered Trait on resto, defending trait on destro (if possible)
    Enchants

    Absorb Magicka / Glyph of Hardening



    Bar 1

    * Inner light -> Emproward ward

    * Grand Healing – Healing Springs

    * Summon Twilight matriarch

    * Combat Prayer

    * Regeneration – Mutagen

    Ult – Summon Storm Atronach



    Bar 2

    Innerlight – Element drain

    Circle of Protection – impluse

    Summon Twilight matriarch

    Element Bloackade

    Blood Altar -> Bone Shield

    Ult – Negate Magic
  • troomar
    troomar
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    No, this is wrong, really.

    A build for beginners must be easy to use with good results.

    Inner Light is a lackluster skill and there is no reason to use it. However, it's a good skill for beginners, but not as a replacement for Empowered Ward.

    Circle of Protection is a bad choice for beginners. I had to make a significant change to my build to be able to use it in my rotations and I still ended up with a sacrifice (lower health). That skill costs around 7k stamina! It's almost a whole pool what standard healers have. And don't forget standard healers don't have a big stamina recovery.

    Impulse is a huge Magicka drain, but can be fun to use. I would choose Liquid Lightning or Lightning Flood though.

    Blood altar is hard to use with good results in PuG and I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.

    Bone shield has the same issue as Circle of Protection. It's a stamina skill with "hard to see" any outcome.

    If I made a build for beginners, I would choose:
    Main Resto Bar: Mutagen - Grand Healing - Summon Twilight matriarch - Inner light - Empowered ward
    Back Lightning Staff: Element Blockade - Lightning Flood - Summon Twilight matriarch - Element drain - Dark Exchange

    Please note that under the term "beginner" I imagine someone running normal dungeons or some easy veteran dungeons (Fungal Grotto I). Therefor no Combat Prayer, no Orbs -> Less healing, more dps, more fun. From this basic set you can go both direction: 1) Do you want more dps? Then change Inner Light and Dark Exchange for Volatile Familiar and Grand Healing for Daedric Prey. 2) Do you want to be a true healer? Follow Tasear's Build :)
  • Visermmy
    Visermmy
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    troomar wrote: »
    No, this is wrong, really.

    A build for beginners must be easy to use with good results.

    Inner Light is a lackluster skill and there is no reason to use it. However, it's a good skill for beginners, but not as a replacement for Empowered Ward.

    Circle of Protection is a bad choice for beginners. I had to make a significant change to my build to be able to use it in my rotations and I still ended up with a sacrifice (lower health). That skill costs around 7k stamina! It's almost a whole pool what standard healers have. And don't forget standard healers don't have a big stamina recovery.

    Impulse is a huge Magicka drain, but can be fun to use. I would choose Liquid Lightning or Lightning Flood though.

    Blood altar is hard to use with good results in PuG and I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.

    Bone shield has the same issue as Circle of Protection. It's a stamina skill with "hard to see" any outcome.

    If I made a build for beginners, I would choose:
    Main Resto Bar: Mutagen - Grand Healing - Summon Twilight matriarch - Inner light - Empowered ward
    Back Lightning Staff: Element Blockade - Lightning Flood - Summon Twilight matriarch - Element drain - Dark Exchange

    Please note that under the term "beginner" I imagine someone running normal dungeons or some easy veteran dungeons (Fungal Grotto I). Therefor no Combat Prayer, no Orbs -> Less healing, more dps, more fun. From this basic set you can go both direction: 1) Do you want more dps? Then change Inner Light and Dark Exchange for Volatile Familiar and Grand Healing for Daedric Prey. 2) Do you want to be a true healer? Follow Tasear's Build :)

    I was thinking more progessive to ... well build into this build. I suppose transition would be better? I see your thoughts and I like them. Let me explain more though

    Inner light - I honestly think before champion this is a skill be praised. Why because it's pointless to use potions at such levels, you will have less resources and generally heal for less. As this skill is easy to get. I put it in beginner friendly.

    Circle of protection - like I said.. was assuming it was going progressively towards this one. And immidiate passive is right below it. So like 6k. But fair point nevertheless

    Impluse - fair point, it's quite expensive skill... might not be good to start of with

    Blood Atlar - honestly I think this will be good for all begninner healing builds coming next patch. I ammuse you saw it's radius of 28 meters? That's 4 times (ish) the size of now. (side note fixes hot issue we were talking about)

    Bone shield - you do make a fair point on hard to see outcome, so maybe not so great, but in consideration of it's morph bone surge of 30% healing received to allies. This will be hard to miss boon espeically with champion points or well gear to back up your healing. Also note in dungeons people under champion 160 will be battle leveled too. So for this I would assume is a fair and worth tradeout for your stamina pool.
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