Kena - light armor Morrowind mageblade build guidance and gameplay [video and AMA]

Lexxypwns

CavalryPK wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics:

The Merciless change makes combos feel sluggish. I really feel it. I hate it. I have been enjoying firing two or three procs off, but I find that in order to get multiple, I have to rush them, inhibiting my ability to deliberately combo with them. Rusing wills may make for a nice dps parse, but it doesn't kill players. So in general I'm still holding each proc for a good opportunity to combo and refreshing after. We'll see how I adjut chained procs into my play style as I become more accustomed to it.

---

When I first read about Grim Focus.. I saw this coming from miles away. Any Magblade would hold on to their bow vs shoot as many bows as possible.

The only way I see chain combo ing the spectral bow in 1VX is when you pop an immove pot right before your first spectral bow is ready. This means you have roughly 15 seconds on you grim focus to work on the next bow proc and 15 seconds of knock back immunity. best cast you may be able to shoot another 2 spectral bows. Talk about feeling rushed ... Jeez

I would love to hear and learn other mechanics to take full advantage of the new Grim focus.

All I can contribute is that resto medium attacks are undodgeable, weaving on your resto bar is mandatory

NightbladeMechanics

Lexxypwns wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics:

The Merciless change makes combos feel sluggish. I really feel it. I hate it. I have been enjoying firing two or three procs off, but I find that in order to get multiple, I have to rush them, inhibiting my ability to deliberately combo with them. Rusing wills may make for a nice dps parse, but it doesn't kill players. So in general I'm still holding each proc for a good opportunity to combo and refreshing after. We'll see how I adjut chained procs into my play style as I become more accustomed to it.

---

When I first read about Grim Focus.. I saw this coming from miles away. Any Magblade would hold on to their bow vs shoot as many bows as possible.

The only way I see chain combo ing the spectral bow in 1VX is when you pop an immove pot right before your first spectral bow is ready. This means you have roughly 15 seconds on you grim focus to work on the next bow proc and 15 seconds of knock back immunity. best cast you may be able to shoot another 2 spectral bows. Talk about feeling rushed ... Jeez

I would love to hear and learn other mechanics to take full advantage of the new Grim focus.

All I can contribute is that resto medium attacks are undodgeable, weaving on your resto bar is mandatory

Dodged light attacks still count toward your proc as long as you are targeting an enemy when you fire them.

@CavalryPK @casparian

casparian

Lexxypwns wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics:

The Merciless change makes combos feel sluggish. I really feel it. I hate it. I have been enjoying firing two or three procs off, but I find that in order to get multiple, I have to rush them, inhibiting my ability to deliberately combo with them. Rusing wills may make for a nice dps parse, but it doesn't kill players. So in general I'm still holding each proc for a good opportunity to combo and refreshing after. We'll see how I adjut chained procs into my play style as I become more accustomed to it.

---

When I first read about Grim Focus.. I saw this coming from miles away. Any Magblade would hold on to their bow vs shoot as many bows as possible.

The only way I see chain combo ing the spectral bow in 1VX is when you pop an immove pot right before your first spectral bow is ready. This means you have roughly 15 seconds on you grim focus to work on the next bow proc and 15 seconds of knock back immunity. best cast you may be able to shoot another 2 spectral bows. Talk about feeling rushed ... Jeez

I would love to hear and learn other mechanics to take full advantage of the new Grim focus.

All I can contribute is that resto medium attacks are undodgeable, weaving on your resto bar is mandatory

The problem isn't so much getting the attacks to connect, it's firing off 5 light attacks while also keeping up everything else you need to be doing in a heated battle. Weaving medium resto attacks just makes it even clunkier.

CavalryPK

casparian wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics:

The Merciless change makes combos feel sluggish. I really feel it. I hate it. I have been enjoying firing two or three procs off, but I find that in order to get multiple, I have to rush them, inhibiting my ability to deliberately combo with them. Rusing wills may make for a nice dps parse, but it doesn't kill players. So in general I'm still holding each proc for a good opportunity to combo and refreshing after. We'll see how I adjut chained procs into my play style as I become more accustomed to it.

---

When I first read about Grim Focus.. I saw this coming from miles away. Any Magblade would hold on to their bow vs shoot as many bows as possible.

The only way I see chain combo ing the spectral bow in 1VX is when you pop an immove pot right before your first spectral bow is ready. This means you have roughly 15 seconds on you grim focus to work on the next bow proc and 15 seconds of knock back immunity. best cast you may be able to shoot another 2 spectral bows. Talk about feeling rushed ... Jeez

I would love to hear and learn other mechanics to take full advantage of the new Grim focus.

All I can contribute is that resto medium attacks are undodgeable, weaving on your resto bar is mandatory

The problem isn't so much getting the attacks to connect, it's firing off 5 light attacks while also keeping up everything else you need to be doing in a heated battle. Weaving medium resto attacks just makes it even clunkier.

This.

CavalryPK

CavalryPK wrote: »

Waiting for your cp video!

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0h-iZCrkX8

you know what. i actually have a AMA type of request. rather then a question. In your upcoming videos.

1.
In Cyrodill when ever there is a 1v1 and sometimes 1v2 i find myself to be victorious. rarely i find myself able to 1vX even against total noobs.

I would love to see some videos from you explaining the principals of 1vX for magblades.

2.
Whenever i am in Cyrodill and i think i finally got my build down. i always run into that 1 player. The player that takes everything i learned from being a magblade and makes me question if i am doing anything right.

For example today morning i run in to a stamblade. whatever i did i could not burst him down. i even used poisons. imovable /detect pots. he had enough recovery to sustain the fight and constantly dodge my attacks. on top of that he had high amount of dmg.

Now this is the part where i would L2P. however when i swapped my build i definitely felt that i had to choose between dps vs regen.

This being said.. i would love to see more vidoes about nightblade mechanics ...

If you guys wondering that stamblade was running 5x viper front bar 5x that set that leaves greenish trap on the floor when dodge and 2x troll king. All medium.

Brutusmax1mus

I'm not sure who you were fighting, but im pretty sure my healer would have done more damage to you in 20 seconds than you took the whole video.

NightbladeMechanics

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I'm not sure who you were fighting, but im pretty sure my healer would have done more damage to you in 20 seconds than you took the whole video.

I'm actually taking a huge amount of damage in many parts of these clips. Watch how my health jumps. I just have really strong hots running, and I block, mist form, and resto ult heavy damage. If they can't outright one shot me, I won't likely die, and it's hard to one shot a target using these builds.

Lucky28

thankyourat wrote: »

To see you playing with only healing ward as your shield has made me more excited about this patch. It looks like damage is down all around. So I'm hoping this will open up more build diversity.

no it's not. most players just haven't figured it out yet. damage is higher this patch. at least for me.

kaithuzar

Damage is higher because people don't have near-unlimited sustain & aren't able to build good dmg tanks as much now.
Many people fell into a certain place style which required them to have certain skills & certain resources, so now they are sacrificing their tankiness for higher damage. Regardless if mathematically damage is lower everyone is taking much more damage because of the way people build and the way things are now after the patch

What I mean by mathematically damage is lower I think was actually a patch before Morrowind whenever they nerfed crit damage maybe the dueling patch

Neloth

Kena, can you criticise my build, please?

I run 5 Lich/2 engine guardian/5 war-maiden, destro/resto. The mundus is atro, but i'm also thinking about shadow.

I have 2 skills setups i can't decide between, the first is:

1) merc resolve/concealed weapon/lotus fan/shadow disguise/sap essence/ soul harvest.
Back bar is: cripple/shadow/healing ward/dampen magicka/healing ward/fear/soul thether.

second is:

2) merc resolve/funnel health/lotus fan/impale/fear/soul harvest
back bar is: dark cloak/shadow/dampen magicka/healing ward/cripple/soul thether

I feel like first one has much better mobility, since no-one can catch you with CW + expedition + shade + cloak, if only they are not running mark. CW is also a hard hitting finisher, and the stun from stealth is nice, and I can run immov pots with it.

The second one provides much better heals, easier assassin's will procs with FH weaving, better ranged sustain dmg (also with FH), and easy fear in the middle of burst combo, + impale is always good to have. But, it's VERY slow, compared to first one, and requires tons of spell dmg pots.

Maybe the first skill set up can be modified with grothgar usage and DW somehow, but not sure if it will be very effective.

Also, I know you are not a fan of shield usage on magblade now, but i really can't drop them, since my ping is pretty high and I need some kind of preventively casted defence.

wildbear247

Thanks for sharing the video Kena. Awesome fighting on your part, especially when you were outnumbered (which was most of the time lol).

Now I'm all pumped up & ready to kick some arse in Cyrodiil this weekend. Also watching your video makes me reconsider dusting off my magblade (mainly crafter these days), and benching my Stamblade for a bit, just to try something different.

NightbladeMechanics

Neloth wrote: »

Kena, can you criticise my build, please?

I run 5 Lich/2 engine guardian/5 war-maiden, destro/resto. The mundus is atro, but i'm also thinking about shadow.

I have 2 skills setups i can't decide between, the first is:

1) merc resolve/concealed weapon/lotus fan/shadow disguise/sap essence/ soul harvest.
Back bar is: cripple/shadow/healing ward/dampen magicka/healing ward/fear/soul thether.

second is:

2) merc resolve/funnel health/lotus fan/impale/fear/soul harvest
back bar is: dark cloak/shadow/dampen magicka/healing ward/cripple/soul thether

I feel like first one has much better mobility, since no-one can catch you with CW + expedition + shade + cloak, if only they are not running mark. CW is also a hard hitting finisher, and the stun from stealth is nice, and I can run immov pots with it.

The second one provides much better heals, easier assassin's will procs with FH weaving, better ranged sustain dmg (also with FH), and easy fear in the middle of burst combo, + impale is always good to have. But, it's VERY slow, compared to first one, and requires tons of spell dmg pots.

Maybe the first skill set up can be modified with grothgar usage and DW somehow, but not sure if it will be very effective.

Also, I know you are not a fan of shield usage on magblade now, but i really can't drop them, since my ping is pretty high and I need some kind of preventively casted defence.

Lich + Engine + Atronach is excessive sustain. Curb some of that into damage or survivability via Valkyn, Malubeth, Shadow, Thief, etc.

Lotus fan is unnecessary on a destro build. Might as well be dual wield.

Just because you're using cloak does not mean you are obligated to use concealed with it. Pick one spammable -- funnel or concealed -- not both. Your bars are too competitive for that.

If you really like using cloak + concealed, then just use dual wield for the extra item slot or 2h/resto for the snare removal.

If you're going to use a destro staff, then use a destro ability for the 8% bonus single target damage passive. Ele Drain is a lot of damage and sustain, but it crowds out mark. Flame reach is an aggressive ranged cc for getting at sorcs and snipers, and it applies a dot for Valkyn.

Grothdarr is actually stronger this patch than it was last patch due to the CP changes. This is not to say it takes the place of Valkyn's burst, but it's a more competitive option. You see, Grothdarr counts as a dot, receiving damage amplification from Thaumaturge and mitigation from Thick Skinned. Even with 81 Master-at-Arms and 0 Thaum, my Grothdarr's total tooltip (the full 5 second proc) is higher than my Valkyn tooltip, AND people tend to put fewer points in Thick Skinned to mitigate Grothdarr than in Ironclad to mitigate Valkyn. This means that if you're able to keep the Grothdarr aoe on the enemy for its full duration, it will do much more damage than Valkyn will in CP. Grothdarr + lotus fan could be potent, but melee mageblade is still subpar compared to ranged. Like really subpar. I'm trying out Grothdarr on my ranged specs currently. Malubeth is my preferred defensive 2pc now.

Valkyn is still the way to go in non CP for damage imo.

Try this:

Destro bar:
flame reach, funnel, cloak, merciless, fear, incap

Resto bar:
cripple, shade, healing ward, harness, mark, resto ult

Use spell power pots, or replace mark or harness with entropy.

That isn't the end-all be-all "best bar setup ever" or anything. There is no such thing with mageblade because the class has suched nuanced play styles which you'll have to adapt for yourself. Those bars do give you the defense that you like (cloak and harness) with the damage and control that you need, though. Without a mitigation set like Riposte or Trans, you're going to need cloak and shade, but concealed leaves you lacking crucial other abilities and gaining only cloak speed, which isn't necessary with proper use of shade.

Basically, you have too much sustain and not enough damage, you need to keep cloak and shade to run that squishy, and your bar setup isn't focused. You are using some abilities which serve the same purpose (funnel + concealed) and some that serve no purpose (lotus), meaning you're lacking other key abilities for other purposes (destro damage passive). Refine your bars, and I think it'll make a world of difference in your play.

Let me know how the changes feel.

Neloth

Kena, thank you very much for a long and detailed answer!

Some points I need to clarify.

I'm not very sure, if I need DW even if I run a melee build, based around conceled. Do I really need that extra slot, since I use Lich back bar and can use 5/5/2 with any 5-piece offensive set? With DW I can replace monster with willpower, but I doubt it will be effective. Sure, I can drop lich and run 2 offensive 5 sets + monster with DW, but is it sustainable this patch? And will it be something like 5x necropot, 5x maiden, 2x Engine and all recovery glyphs with 3-stat food? I was about to mention shacklebreaker + regen food, but afraid to tigger you

Also, that heavy destro attack from cloak + reliable weaving(for regen reduction, dmg bow proc) and is why I use destro even on melee build.

And, of course, I'll try your ranged set up. To defend myself a bit - lotus fan had a purpose, to provide constant fear CC and easier incaps when I'm snared/rooted/target is running away. Basically, when I refined my bars as you said, it's all about lotus vs some destro skill/impale. I'll try them all.

Ty again!

Benn G x

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Kena, can you criticise my build, please?

I run 5 Lich/2 engine guardian/5 war-maiden, destro/resto. The mundus is atro, but i'm also thinking about shadow.

I have 2 skills setups i can't decide between, the first is:

1) merc resolve/concealed weapon/lotus fan/shadow disguise/sap essence/ soul harvest.
Back bar is: cripple/shadow/healing ward/dampen magicka/healing ward/fear/soul thether.

second is:

2) merc resolve/funnel health/lotus fan/impale/fear/soul harvest
back bar is: dark cloak/shadow/dampen magicka/healing ward/cripple/soul thether

I feel like first one has much better mobility, since no-one can catch you with CW + expedition + shade + cloak, if only they are not running mark. CW is also a hard hitting finisher, and the stun from stealth is nice, and I can run immov pots with it.

The second one provides much better heals, easier assassin's will procs with FH weaving, better ranged sustain dmg (also with FH), and easy fear in the middle of burst combo, + impale is always good to have. But, it's VERY slow, compared to first one, and requires tons of spell dmg pots.

Maybe the first skill set up can be modified with grothgar usage and DW somehow, but not sure if it will be very effective.

Also, I know you are not a fan of shield usage on magblade now, but i really can't drop them, since my ping is pretty high and I need some kind of preventively casted defence.

Lich + Engine + Atronach is excessive sustain. Curb some of that into damage or survivability via Valkyn, Malubeth, Shadow, Thief, etc.

Lotus fan is unnecessary on a destro build. Might as well be dual wield.

Just because you're using cloak does not mean you are obligated to use concealed with it. Pick one spammable -- funnel or concealed -- not both. Your bars are too competitive for that.

If you really like using cloak + concealed, then just use dual wield for the extra item slot or 2h/resto for the snare removal.

If you're going to use a destro staff, then use a destro ability for the 8% bonus single target damage passive. Ele Drain is a lot of damage and sustain, but it crowds out mark. Flame reach is an aggressive ranged cc for getting at sorcs and snipers, and it applies a dot for Valkyn.

Grothdarr is actually stronger this patch than it was last patch due to the CP changes. This is not to say it takes the place of Valkyn's burst, but it's a more competitive option. You see, Grothdarr counts as a dot, receiving damage amplification from Thaumaturge and mitigation from Thick Skinned. Even with 81 Master-at-Arms and 0 Thaum, my Grothdarr's total tooltip (the full 5 second proc) is higher than my Valkyn tooltip, AND people tend to put fewer points in Thick Skinned to mitigate Grothdarr than in Ironclad to mitigate Valkyn. This means that if you're able to keep the Grothdarr aoe on the enemy for its full duration, it will do much more damage than Valkyn will in CP. Grothdarr + lotus fan could be potent, but melee mageblade is still subpar compared to ranged. Like really subpar. I'm trying out Grothdarr on my ranged specs currently. Malubeth is my preferred defensive 2pc now.

Valkyn is still the way to go in non CP for damage imo.

Try this:

Destro bar:
flame reach, funnel, cloak, merciless, fear, incap

Resto bar:
cripple, shade, healing ward, harness, mark, resto ult

Use spell power pots, or replace mark or harness with entropy.

That isn't the end-all be-all "best bar setup ever" or anything. There is no such thing with mageblade because the class has suched nuanced play styles which you'll have to adapt for yourself. Those bars do give you the defense that you like (cloak and harness) with the damage and control that you need, though. Without a mitigation set like Riposte or Trans, you're going to need cloak and shade, but concealed leaves you lacking crucial other abilities and gaining only cloak speed, which isn't necessary with proper use of shade.

Basically, you have too much sustain and not enough damage, you need to keep cloak and shade to run that squishy, and your bar setup isn't focused. You are using some abilities which serve the same purpose (funnel + concealed) and some that serve no purpose (lotus), meaning you're lacking other key abilities for other purposes (destro damage passive). Refine your bars, and I think it'll make a world of difference in your play.

Let me know how the changes feel.

It's crazy how many people actually use 2 spammables right, I already have a hard enough time allocating the skills I want because magblades have so much choice.

And I also agree with the Grothdarr part you touched on, I figured I'd respond here so others can read. It's actually pretty easy to lotus fan in > proc Grothdarr > soul tether > sap essence and melt everyone. Works well in battlegrounds for me, when the other 2 teams are fighting each other it's great.

At the moment I'm using x5 spinners x5 Kagrenacs and x2 Grothdarr, I find I can just about sustain with witchmothers, atro and the 1 recovery bonus from kags. I may drop a spell damage glyph for a cost reduction just to ease the pressure sustain gives me. I'm also planning on getting War Maiden when the prices drop a bit, any recommendations for sets for a Melee Magblade? I don't like Necropotence though, I never have enough uptime with shades.

NightbladeMechanics

Benn G x wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Kena, can you criticise my build, please?

I run 5 Lich/2 engine guardian/5 war-maiden, destro/resto. The mundus is atro, but i'm also thinking about shadow.

I have 2 skills setups i can't decide between, the first is:

1) merc resolve/concealed weapon/lotus fan/shadow disguise/sap essence/ soul harvest.
Back bar is: cripple/shadow/healing ward/dampen magicka/healing ward/fear/soul thether.

second is:

2) merc resolve/funnel health/lotus fan/impale/fear/soul harvest
back bar is: dark cloak/shadow/dampen magicka/healing ward/cripple/soul thether

I feel like first one has much better mobility, since no-one can catch you with CW + expedition + shade + cloak, if only they are not running mark. CW is also a hard hitting finisher, and the stun from stealth is nice, and I can run immov pots with it.

The second one provides much better heals, easier assassin's will procs with FH weaving, better ranged sustain dmg (also with FH), and easy fear in the middle of burst combo, + impale is always good to have. But, it's VERY slow, compared to first one, and requires tons of spell dmg pots.

Maybe the first skill set up can be modified with grothgar usage and DW somehow, but not sure if it will be very effective.

Also, I know you are not a fan of shield usage on magblade now, but i really can't drop them, since my ping is pretty high and I need some kind of preventively casted defence.

Lich + Engine + Atronach is excessive sustain. Curb some of that into damage or survivability via Valkyn, Malubeth, Shadow, Thief, etc.

Lotus fan is unnecessary on a destro build. Might as well be dual wield.

Just because you're using cloak does not mean you are obligated to use concealed with it. Pick one spammable -- funnel or concealed -- not both. Your bars are too competitive for that.

If you really like using cloak + concealed, then just use dual wield for the extra item slot or 2h/resto for the snare removal.

If you're going to use a destro staff, then use a destro ability for the 8% bonus single target damage passive. Ele Drain is a lot of damage and sustain, but it crowds out mark. Flame reach is an aggressive ranged cc for getting at sorcs and snipers, and it applies a dot for Valkyn.

Grothdarr is actually stronger this patch than it was last patch due to the CP changes. This is not to say it takes the place of Valkyn's burst, but it's a more competitive option. You see, Grothdarr counts as a dot, receiving damage amplification from Thaumaturge and mitigation from Thick Skinned. Even with 81 Master-at-Arms and 0 Thaum, my Grothdarr's total tooltip (the full 5 second proc) is higher than my Valkyn tooltip, AND people tend to put fewer points in Thick Skinned to mitigate Grothdarr than in Ironclad to mitigate Valkyn. This means that if you're able to keep the Grothdarr aoe on the enemy for its full duration, it will do much more damage than Valkyn will in CP. Grothdarr + lotus fan could be potent, but melee mageblade is still subpar compared to ranged. Like really subpar. I'm trying out Grothdarr on my ranged specs currently. Malubeth is my preferred defensive 2pc now.

Valkyn is still the way to go in non CP for damage imo.

Try this:

Destro bar:
flame reach, funnel, cloak, merciless, fear, incap

Resto bar:
cripple, shade, healing ward, harness, mark, resto ult

Use spell power pots, or replace mark or harness with entropy.

That isn't the end-all be-all "best bar setup ever" or anything. There is no such thing with mageblade because the class has suched nuanced play styles which you'll have to adapt for yourself. Those bars do give you the defense that you like (cloak and harness) with the damage and control that you need, though. Without a mitigation set like Riposte or Trans, you're going to need cloak and shade, but concealed leaves you lacking crucial other abilities and gaining only cloak speed, which isn't necessary with proper use of shade.

Basically, you have too much sustain and not enough damage, you need to keep cloak and shade to run that squishy, and your bar setup isn't focused. You are using some abilities which serve the same purpose (funnel + concealed) and some that serve no purpose (lotus), meaning you're lacking other key abilities for other purposes (destro damage passive). Refine your bars, and I think it'll make a world of difference in your play.

Let me know how the changes feel.

It's crazy how many people actually use 2 spammables right, I already have a hard enough time allocating the skills I want because magblades have so much choice.

And I also agree with the Grothdarr part you touched on, I figured I'd respond here so others can read. It's actually pretty easy to lotus fan in > proc Grothdarr > soul tether > sap essence and melt everyone. Works well in battlegrounds for me, when the other 2 teams are fighting each other it's great.

At the moment I'm using x5 spinners x5 Kagrenacs and x2 Grothdarr, I find I can just about sustain with witchmothers, atro and the 1 recovery bonus from kags. I may drop a spell damage glyph for a cost reduction just to ease the pressure sustain gives me. I'm also planning on getting War Maiden when the prices drop a bit, any recommendations for sets for a Melee Magblade? I don't like Necropotence though, I never have enough uptime with shades.

Before you drop a damage glyph for more sustain, try shifting to 5 Magnus or 5 Seducer + Shadow. It's more efficient to get your sustain from 5pc sets, then Witchmother's if you absolutely have to, then glyphs only if you mandated sets and a mundus that don't let you sustain sufficiently. 5 Magnus is old school melee mageblade.

Artis

I'm back trying again, and it's really discouraging. Once again - oneshots even with full hp, frequently - during breaking CC animation etc. Like, it's impossible. Can't just selectively block. If someone simply spams dizzying swing - that's it. If I miss 1 - I die while getting up even if I had everything up. Swing - dawnbreaker - execute if I'm still alive. Getting caught anywhere = death too, spamming charges simply won't let me move. Again, having ward/hots on does nothing, still can't get anywhere to use los.


No idea how it's supposed to work. The build is 5 transmutation+5 war maiden+skoria. All magicka enchants, witchmother. Last thing we talked about in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/346507/soooo-morrowind-magblades-and-how-they-work-now-in-bg/p5 was stats, and yeah - still no idea how yours are so high. I have 19.9k hp and 31k or so magicka. 8.2k stamina

Tried tri-food instead. 20.9k hp, 32.2k magicka and 12.5k stamina. Didn't help much.

p.s. this dude right now (in heavy I guess?) was just spamming ransack (proccing viper and tremor of course), literally 1 button. And there was nothing I could do. He outdpsed me if I tried to fight back, and he outdpsed my heals.

worsttankever

Artis wrote: »

I'm back trying again, and it's really discouraging. Once again - oneshots even with full hp, frequently - during breaking CC animation etc. Like, it's impossible. Can't just selectively block. If someone simply spams dizzying swing - that's it. If I miss 1 - I die while getting up even if I had everything up. Swing - dawnbreaker - execute if I'm still alive. Getting caught anywhere = death too, spamming charges simply won't let me move. Again, having ward/hots on does nothing, still can't get anywhere to use los.

Yeah I know what you mean. Dizzying swing weaved with heavy attacks are hard to avoid. Consider that a stage where the other PC is pressuring you. The are regenerating Stamina with their heavy attacks, which can fuel their Dizzying Swing spam. They can stay in that mode indefinitely aside from casting their buffs.

If you block - they won't recover Stamina from their heavy attacks.

Also if you block - you won't be cc'ed by the Dizzying swing.

When someone is close up to me like that (tho - I'm speaking from the perspective of my StamBlade), I cast Fear. Now they are running away and it gives me a few seconds to unleash my burst.

I use Shadow Image to pop around and keep distance. Break it up so they can't just hold down R1 and tap square (I play on Console). They can still gap close, but I'm ready with my block. While they were at a distance I use my Bow and ranged abilities like Piercing Mark and Poison Injection. My light attacks apply a Stamina cost increase poison.

Cloak is another key tool - just to interrupt their flow. Roll dodge, cloak when you see the gap close and dizzy/heavies coming.

You need to apply pressure on them so that they go into defense mode - deal a lot of damage and - now they won't be gap closing, spamming heavies and Dizzying swing. Instead they'll back off, cast class abilities and Vigor. CC them on cooldown.

My suggestion is to record yourself playing and review the footage later. I started doing that on Console and it really helped. I even started recognizing players - this StamSorc that people would talk about as being the best on the server. What abilities is he casting? Am I doing damage? What was my response what could I change? I actually changed my sets and bars around, putting Nights Silence on my attack bar, so I could Cloak in the middle of combat and rush hiim quickly with Surprise Attack and get the stun from attacking in stealth.

Noticing his constant casts of Vigor (and other heavy armor 2h players with endless heals and high resists) led me to applying Stamina cost increase poisons.

My Stamblade has like 10k magicka, 38k health, and 23k stamina, and 2.5k weapon damage (in non-vet pvp). And very high resists. So he's very forgiving when I come under attack like that. I'm thinking with a magicka nightlbade you need to constantly have your shields up and be moving (in and out of cloak). Also it sounds like your stats should be higher across the board.

worsttankever

Artis wrote: »

Tried tri-food instead. 20.9k hp, 32.2k magicka and 12.5k stamina. Didn't help much.

Just throwing this out there - maybe try a wholly different build. Nightblade has great synergy with heavy armor, especially with the right racial passives. Having close to 40k health gives you much more time to react. You can still have high damage by being smart with your jewelry enchants and options elsewhere (like Clever Alchemist proc). I'm working on a 7heavy nightblade build right now, but she'll be in non-vet pvp for a long while.

If your problem is constant cc's, maybe try Reactive Armor or Way of the Arena.

Artis

Well that's the thing, everyone agreed what the best sets for mNB are. And I've no idea how they are getting their stats with their sets. How do I get those stats? All gear is enchanted + food is up.
Also note, that we're talking about no cloak builds - such as the ones in this video. I'm assuming cloak builds would be completely different - maximizing the effect of stealth. I'm trying to make a blood mage type of build work - it used to work before update. As of now, I don't even see where to put cloak to keep playing with a similar setup. Got nothing I don't need

And yes, of course I keep all my shields and hots up. I get oneshotted most of the time anyway.

Thanks for the answer anyway. Liked how you described what you do in different scenarios. That's the kind of answer I need. But for a mNB so that I can say how it actually works out for me and get some feedback on what to change. What you described barely works for me unfortunately. Between animation time and such, the break fear faster than I can burst. And then they are immune and I'm done. If I get CCed - that's the end of it usually.

I honestly am not sure what's happening. Whatever builds were mentioned - with videos too - I don't even have stats close to that. IT's like there's something fundamental I don't understand before even getting to the builds. And it's odd, I've been playing for a while and I think I know mechanics a little. Yet - after the update I just can't do anything. Tonight I played through 2 food buffs (witchmother and finishing tri-food right now) - I only won maybe 1 BG. Way below 33% that I would statistically win if I was around the average level.

I'm just hating this update that made me so much weaker in both pvp and pve, but still trying to do something... Getting really frustrated and not enjoying the game at all, though. (Not working queue doesn't make it better XD )

Artis

worsttankever wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Tried tri-food instead. 20.9k hp, 32.2k magicka and 12.5k stamina. Didn't help much.

Just throwing this out there - maybe try a wholly different build. Nightblade has great synergy with heavy armor, especially with the right racial passives. Having close to 40k health gives you much more time to react. You can still have high damage by being smart with your jewelry enchants and options elsewhere (like Clever Alchemist proc). I'm working on a 7heavy nightblade build right now, but she'll be in non-vet pvp for a long while.

If your problem is constant cc's, maybe try Reactive Armor or Way of the Arena.

He used to. Now I tried heavy build ( used a heavy build before this update) and it just sucks. Low resources + wrath got nerfed ... the damage felt meh too.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

42-0-3 in a domination last night with 1.1 mil damage using transmutation, wizard riposte and skoria.

Loving. This. Build.

Waffennacht

@artis you have undaunted passives? 6% can be a lot, say 30k in a pool means roughly 2k more. Food is correct? Passives?

Artis

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

42-0-3 in a domination last night with 1.1 mil damage using transmutation, wizard riposte and skoria.

Loving. This. Build.

How? Who were you playing against? Weren't they touching you? Or is replacing WM with WR changes everything so much? Can't be. Or were you not solo?

Waffennacht wrote: »

@artis you have undaunted passives? 6% can be a lot, say 30k in a pool means roughly 2k more. Food is correct? Passives?

Yes, I have everything. The only thing is I have 4% instead of 6% right now, don't have a Medium impen skoria piece yet. But that's 2% difference. As you can see, the real difference is way higher than 2%. The only explanation I see.... Should I go tri-glyphs? But then I'll have less magicka.

Food? Which one is correct? I tried witchmother's brew and purple food, the stats are in my question.

I really don't understand what I don't understand. It's like I'm missing something that's on the surface.

NBrookus

Artis wrote: »

I really don't understand what I don't understand. It's like I'm missing something that's on the surface.

My experience trying to learn to magblade in a nutshell.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Lexxypwns wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics:

The Merciless change makes combos feel sluggish. I really feel it. I hate it. I have been enjoying firing two or three procs off, but I find that in order to get multiple, I have to rush them, inhibiting my ability to deliberately combo with them. Rusing wills may make for a nice dps parse, but it doesn't kill players. So in general I'm still holding each proc for a good opportunity to combo and refreshing after. We'll see how I adjut chained procs into my play style as I become more accustomed to it.

---

When I first read about Grim Focus.. I saw this coming from miles away. Any Magblade would hold on to their bow vs shoot as many bows as possible.

The only way I see chain combo ing the spectral bow in 1VX is when you pop an immove pot right before your first spectral bow is ready. This means you have roughly 15 seconds on you grim focus to work on the next bow proc and 15 seconds of knock back immunity. best cast you may be able to shoot another 2 spectral bows. Talk about feeling rushed ... Jeez

I would love to hear and learn other mechanics to take full advantage of the new Grim focus.

All I can contribute is that resto medium attacks are undodgeable, weaving on your resto bar is mandatory

^^^^^ Yes. Back when I toyed with Molag Kena + Merciless, I defaulted to my Resto staff to proc both, because the Light Attack Resto Staff animation has less frame animation then the Light Attack Fire/Lightning does. It literally snaps onto the target on frame 3/ frame 4.

worsttankever

Artis wrote: »

Well that's the thing, everyone agreed what the best sets for mNB are. And I've no idea how they are getting their stats with their sets. How do I get those stats? All gear is enchanted + food is up.

I read that other thread you referenced - Kena is using Prismatic Glyphs while you are using Magicka. So he's getting 150% the value to his stats versus your 100%. Prismatics are hella expensive. Hajekos run 20k per on PS4 NA. Are your enchants Kuta quality?

What were your total stats with tristat food? Stam will help you block after cc break and more health can be the difference between life and death.

Even if "everybody" agrees a loadout is the best (tho devil is in the details - like traits/quality for your armor, weapons, and jewelry), it might not be the best loadout for YOU.

In Judo I never did fancy throws. I would wait for my opponent to move, to put themselves in a compromising position, and then foothrow or counter to take them to the matts and grapple where I performed best.

In ESO I gravitate towards heavy armor, high health, and tankiness because my reaction time sucks and I don't like grinding dropped sets. (Also why I play twink characters in nonvet pvp - my favorite game feature is crafting). High effective health means I have literally seconds where I can sit there (hopefully with block up - love that sturdy trait!), assess my opponent, swap bars, lay out my debuffs, pop a potion reposition and go into my rotation.

If what you're really having a hard time with is being cc'ed and KO'ed before the animation is over - even with shields up - you can build for more time to react but it probably means going heavy. Reactive Armor would be awesome - 25% less damage while cc'ed.

Post some videos! Show your character sheet and setup, and some of these scenarios you are talking about.

Also - consider learning more about your opposition by playing their role. Create a stam character in nonvet PVP, get some crafted armor (willow's path and hunding's rage upgraded to blue every few levels), 2h maul and sword and shield. Works with any class. I suggest Orc as OP race. Go out and wrecking blow the competition and keenfully observe any light armor builds that outmaneuver you. How do they keep their shields up and cc under control as you spam their *** with wrecking blow after wrecking blow?

Ive been aggravated by shield users before (not many) because they could keep their shields up more than I could dps. But they couldn't damage me much either, so it would drag on till their friend arrived. Upping my dps seems to have solve that. Just in case .. these days I craft 1 weapon on defense bar with oblivion enchant (bypasses shields) but a stamina poison equipped so the enchant is inactive. If a magicka shield user is giving me a hard time I can escape, remove poison, and then re-enter the fray.

worsttankever

Artis wrote: »

Now I tried heavy build ( used a heavy build before this update) and it just sucks. Low resources + wrath got nerfed ... the damage felt meh too.

In nonvet I'm experimenting with 7heavy, infused helm and legs, bi stat food, 5 piece shacklebreaker and 3 piece willows path destro/resto magicka DK. 2 armor bonuses for stam and mag regen each. Seems to have high stats across the board. The syngery between heavy passives and restoration staff passives are nice - along with the magicka steal from weakness to elements. My jewelery is all damage enchants. There are ways to get regen with heavy just fine - but I agree - it's the damage that makes me press the build for more. One trick is to use damage mundus instead of crit and then divines on armor (making up for lack up impen with high effective health).

Artis

Yes all my enchants are Kuta quality I believe. Hakeijo is expensive, but I think I can afford it. What puzzles me is that with hakeijo my magicka will become lower than now, while people here say that all their stats are higher than mine. And that's with my 10% max magicka passive.

I guess I'll wait for even more videos, maybe that will help. So far I just don't understand - some situations I encounter never happen in the videos and others - I just die. Another thing is I'll keep trying every now and then, maybe it's the lack of hours. But really, there must be something else. It can't be that everyone can do it and I can't. Then again, the stats...

Oh well, still waiting for any magicka NB to comment

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Artis wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

42-0-3 in a domination last night with 1.1 mil damage using transmutation, wizard riposte and skoria.

Loving. This. Build.

How? Who were you playing against? Weren't they touching you? Or is replacing WM with WR changes everything so much? Can't be. Or were you not solo?

Waffennacht wrote: »

@artis you have undaunted passives? 6% can be a lot, say 30k in a pool means roughly 2k more. Food is correct? Passives?

Yes, I have everything. The only thing is I have 4% instead of 6% right now, don't have a Medium impen skoria piece yet. But that's 2% difference. As you can see, the real difference is way higher than 2%. The only explanation I see.... Should I go tri-glyphs? But then I'll have less magicka.

Food? Which one is correct? I tried witchmother's brew and purple food, the stats are in my question.

I really don't understand what I don't understand. It's like I'm missing something that's on the surface.

2v2v2...I had a full blown tank on my team. He stacked them up (they were all collectively terrible obv). We actually started 0-2, then took a 4-2 lead. At this point we decided to grab the flags to force them to us and thus....my 42-0-3 game.

https://ibb.co/cx8Vhk

NightbladeMechanics

@Artis my stats come from several prismatic glyphs + all attributes in magicka + Witchmother's + 3% from Argonian + CP.

If you're having trouble surviving, it might be due to your CP distribution. Other than that...it might just come down to practice.