Nightblade - Assassin's Blade: Increase Damage done while in stealth?

Avran_Sylt

Seeing as it's a blade thrust with lethal precision, it'd be even more deadly if the target is unaware. Since this ability hits for paltry damage if the target is above 25% health, and since in PvP sneak critical has just been nerfed, perhaps it'd give Nightblades more incentive to use this ability as an opener (which would require them to get even closer to their target) that is high risk/reward compared to just using snipe + (Ambush/Crit charge) from a bow 22m away.

Give it something like: This ability deals 300% more damage to targets at or under 25% health, or when used from stealth (Not cloak)

Edit: Also, looking more at the damage numbers on the tooltip, damage from stealth only being increased by 200% seems less overpowered, and brings it in line to almost the same damage as uppercut/snipe base damage.


Some Other Ideas:

Someone
Make it Position dependent, more damage from the back.


@GreenSoup2Hot...

Killers Blade (stamina morph)
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. NEW CHANGE: Deals 50% more damage for each consecutive execute against someone under 25% health. Up to 500%.

Now why would i want a change like this? Well there are a couple scenarios that would benefit from this change in pve and pvp.

In pve its self explanatory, 200% more execute damage would make a stamina nightblades dps skyrocket during an execute phase of a boss. If there is ever a boss mechanic where upon entering execute phase you need to dps the boss and kill it before your raid wipe's.... a stamina nightblade would be perfect for this situation because of how strong killers blade could potentially be. Thus making them more valuable in pve raids.

In PvP, shield stacking builds that refuse to die will continue to take more and more damage if they sit there shield stacking while under 25% health. Since you cannot critically hit a shield, this will provide a way to punish players who spam shields while in a executable phase.

@Hurika
Assassin's Blade ignores the targets Physical and Spell Resistance.

Shift the Bonus to Veiled Strike and Its Morphs

cyx54tc

Sounds Interesting

I would rather ambush gets the buff

LiquidPony

Leave it the Way it is

Veiled Strike is the "attack from stealth" Nightblade skill ...

Avran_Sylt

@LiquidPony

I always found it odd though that it wasn't under the assassination tree. also that it gave no bonus to "attack from stealth" if it is indeed the "attack from stealth" skill. Especially if an assassin's blade seems more thematically tied to attacking from the darkness rather than after you've beaten the enemy around the head for a good while.

magictucktuck

Sounds Interesting

Someone mentioned a back stab ability since there is no stealth dmg anymore. This is also a good idea.

Rohamad_Ali

I don't think it's even working right currently . I tested it several times and did not see 300% increase at targets below 25% . I think it's bugged .

LiquidPony

Leave it the Way it is

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@LiquidPony

I always found it odd though that it wasn't under the assassination tree. also that it gave no bonus to "attack from stealth" if it is indeed the "attack from stealth" skill. Especially if an assassin's blade seems more thematically tied to attacking from the darkness rather than after you've beaten the enemy around the head for a good while.

Well you do stun and set off balance with Veiled Strike from stealth, that's the bonus. Assassin's Blade is an execute ability, and arguably the strongest in the game aside from Radiant Destruction.

Zolron

Leave it the Way it is

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't think it's even working right currently . I tested it several times and did not see 300% increase at targets below 25% . I think it's bugged .

It's been bugged like this for me for a while. Seems to work most of the time but occasionally it hits ( i hear sound and see animation ) but does ZERO damage

Avran_Sylt

@LiquidPony

Which is fair enough, I'd just like to see an ability that can pony up to Snipe/Uppercut when doing initial engage damage from stealth that is part of the Nightblades arsenal and isn't an ultimate.

@Rohamad_Ali

That was actually noticed a bit during the beta testing, the execute not dealing the tooltip %bonus damage. so if you're right, then that means they have yet to fix it.

magictucktuck

Sounds Interesting

Zolron wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't think it's even working right currently . I tested it several times and did not see 300% increase at targets below 25% . I think it's bugged .

It's been bugged like this for me for a while. Seems to work most of the time but occasionally it hits ( i hear sound and see animation ) but does ZERO damage

hmmm it seems to work for me every time, but in pvp people have so many heal bonuses its hard to hit them fast enough at 25% because they get that low and they dodge/heal.

but its pretty much guaranteed death when they are hit under 25% but i run reverse slice most the time because its scales at 50%

leepalmer95

Leave it the Way it is

Not sure it's really needed, like people said this is the execute and veiled is the cloak attack.

The stun cloaked veiled is pretty good tbh, a lot of people don't use it as much anymore thoough.

GreenSoup2HoT

Sounds Interesting

To the OP, i really like the idea.... however Surprise Attack is already kind of your best opener after Morrowwind (not saying wrecking blow/snipe/onslaught/heavy att are bad alternatives by any means). Sets target off balance, stuns and gives major buffs. I use killers blade as an execute and its already my finisher for my gank combo. Using it at the start and finish would be weird.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't think it's even working right currently . I tested it several times and did not see 300% increase at targets below 25% . I think it's bugged .

You may be onto something. I noticed executing someone with a large damage shield who was under 25% health was not producing the 300% increased damage. I'll go test it right now to confirm.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Not sure it's really needed, like people said this is the execute and veiled is the cloak attack.
The stun cloaked veiled is pretty good tbh, a lot of people don't use it as much anymore thoough.

I think we will see a surge of stamina nightblades using surprise att stun more often because fear will cost too much magicka (in morrowwind). Without a cost reduction star in cp, cloak and fear gonna cost like 3800 minimum. Thats a lot.

mb10

They need to increase the speed of the attack because it feels like it takes a whole second before it hits

Oakmontowls_ESO

I know for pve executes don't stack with some forms of additive damage like minor slayer. So is it not dealing the extra damage at all or is it not dealing the full 300% extra?

Avran_Sylt

@GreenSoup2HoT

Hmm. Perhaps this:

Since attacks from stealth already stuns the enemy regardless of what ability you use (light attacks from stealth also stun enemies), maybe Veiled Strike (and morphs) can increase the damage done by 30% when attacking from crouch stealth, and stunning enemies when attacking from cloaking effects?

As it currently is redundant in that it applies an additional stun from stealth from stealth attacks. While you may argue that the stun itself from crouch lasts longer due to the Master Assassin' Passive, I don't think it'd be useful at all. a 4 second stun is good enough.

But then leaving Assassin's Blade alone.

GreenSoup2HoT

Sounds Interesting

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT

Hmm. Perhaps this:

Since attacks from stealth already stuns the enemy regardless of what ability you use (light attacks from stealth also stun enemies), maybe Veiled Strike (and morphs) can increase the damage done by 30% when attacking from crouch stealth, and stunning enemies when attacking from cloaking effects?

As it currently is redundant in that it applies an additional stun from stealth from stealth attacks. While you may argue that the stun itself from crouch lasts longer due to the Master Assassin' Passive, I don't think it'd be useful at all. a 4 second stun is good enough.

But then leaving Assassin's Blade alone.

It's a decent idea but there is really no reason to open with Surprise attack considering most gankers already weave a heavy attack first. If you opened with surprise attack and gained 30% more damage with it because of this new change... you would just be gaining the same damage thats already possible with heavy attack + surprise attack openers.

I think the stamina morph of Assassins Blade (Killers blade) needs a rework. 20% hp for killing a target in my opinion doesn't suit the playstyle for nightblade in endgame. While leveling a stamina nightblade it is a tremendous help to survive before Rally or Vigor is obtained but in Endgame PvP or PvE it really looses its value.


Heres what i would change about Killers Blade to make it a little more impressive:

Assassins Blade (base morph)
"Thrust a caustic blade with a lethal precision to stab an enemy, dealing [x] Disease Damage. Deals 300% more damage to targets at or below 25% Heath."

Killers Blade (stamina morph)
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. NEW CHANGE: Deals 50% more damage for each consecutive execute against someone under 25% health. Up to 500%.


Now why would i want a change like this? Well there are a couple scenarios that would benefit from this change in pve and pvp.

In pve its self explanatory, 200% more execute damage would make a stamina nightblades dps skyrocket during an execute phase of a boss. If there is ever a boss mechanic where upon entering execute phase you need to dps the boss and kill it before your raid wipe's.... a stamina nightblade would be perfect for this situation because of how strong killers blade could potentially be. Thus making them more valuable in pve raids.

In PvP, shield stacking builds that refuse to die will continue to take more and more damage if they sit there shield stacking while under 25% health. Since you cannot critically hit a shield, this will provide a way to punish players who spam shields while in a executable phase.

@Wrobel What do you think of this kind of change for Killers Blade?

Kram8ion

Other

Give nb blade of woe in cyrodil on npcs

GreenSoup2HoT

Sounds Interesting

Kram8ion wrote: »

Give nb blade of woe in cyrodil on npcs

yeah i feel that. then you could use that set that gives you major bezerk.

Avran_Sylt

@GreenSoup2HoT

That's an interesting idea. And I quite like that you point out how most people will chose to Heavy weave into an ability because of the heavy attack damage + ability damage being higher than surprise attack on its lonesome. Not only that but adding the execute stacking on Killer's Blade seems rather interesting and would invite a situation where having a nightblade would speed a trial up at a particular phase (Though I would suggest not having it solely be for Killers blade, as so far in my opinion stam and mag nightblades are in a good spot against one another).

But perhaps on the killer's blade it could grant Major Berserk for a couple seconds after a kill instead of the health bonus. Since melee builds tend to be less AoE than their Magicka counterparts it might make going from one target to the next more enticing than just blanket AoE.

Avran_Sylt

@Kram8ion

Wait, Blade of Woe Doesn't work on NPC's in Cyrodiil? Like the guards, the NPC's in towns, or both?

Kram8ion

Other

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Kram8ion

Wait, Blade of Woe Doesn't work on NPC's in Cyrodiil? Like the guards, the NPC's in towns, or both?

I'm not hundred percent sure but maybe some others can confirm it's been a long time since I've even used it

IcyDeadPeople

Kram8ion wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Kram8ion

Wait, Blade of Woe Doesn't work on NPC's in Cyrodiil? Like the guards, the NPC's in towns, or both?

I'm not hundred percent sure but maybe some others can confirm it's been a long time since I've even used it

It definitely works on NPCs and daedra, I use it in Bruma all the time. Doesn't work on faction guards though because they have stealth immunity. (Haven't tried it while invis though)

Kram8ion

Other

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Kram8ion wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Kram8ion

Wait, Blade of Woe Doesn't work on NPC's in Cyrodiil? Like the guards, the NPC's in towns, or both?

I'm not hundred percent sure but maybe some others can confirm it's been a long time since I've even used it

It definitely works on them, I use it in Bruma all the time

Ty icy

Rikkof

The numbers may be too high

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Give it something like: This ability deals 300% more damage to targets at or under 25% health, or when used from stealth (Not cloak)

Edit: Also, looking more at the damage numbers on the tooltip, damage from stealth only being increased by 200% seems less overpowered, and brings it in line to almost the same damage as uppercut/snipe base damage.

Where is they NO option in youir poll?
biased much?
sorry never gonna happen

Avran_Sylt

@Rikkof

No = Leave it the way it is.

GreenSoup2HoT

Sounds Interesting

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT

That's an interesting idea. And I quite like that you point out how most people will chose to Heavy weave into an ability because of the heavy attack damage + ability damage being higher than surprise attack on its lonesome. Not only that but adding the execute stacking on Killer's Blade seems rather interesting and would invite a situation where having a nightblade would speed a trial up at a particular phase (Though I would suggest not having it solely be for Killers blade, as so far in my opinion stam and mag nightblades are in a good spot against one another).

But perhaps on the killer's blade it could grant Major Berserk for a couple seconds after a kill instead of the health bonus. Since melee builds tend to be less AoE than their Magicka counterparts it might make going from one target to the next more enticing than just blanket AoE.

Technically we do have major berserk with Reapers Mark after a kill for 5 seconds. Not only would you get that attack boost, you could get 60% of your max hp (30% in pvp) and debuff your enemies major resistances. Kill them with Killers blade and theres another 20% hp (10% in pvp).

Even though on paper reapers mark sounds awesome, its not really practical. Would be nice if enemy players did not know they were marked. I personally don't like how marked targets know they've been marked, ruins the whole assassination feel.


Maybe a new assassination skill line mechanic, killing a marked target with killers blade marks the closest nearby enemy. Creating a new debuffed target for you to kill. I dunno, i personally really like my original idea.

ArchMikem

It does paltry damage above 25% health because its an execute skill. You use it when youre at the end of a fight. It peeves me to no end when i see people spamming it like its a normal dps skill, lol.

Juhasow

Leave it the Way it is

So they nerfed gank potential only to give it back ? Here is problem with nb's. They want to be more effective and have better defensive in open fights yet they also want to be one shoters from hide. If nb's want to be competitive in open fights they need to start loosing gank burst potential which is sometimes broken in exchange for open fight goodies.

Avran_Sylt

@GreenSoup2HoT

Your idea is indeed an interesting one, and certainly would grant NB's more status in the endgame as being the Finisher Class. Though I'd still have your idea applicable to the base skill, rather than just the Killer's Blade Morph. That way MagNB's aren't shunned from Trials.

@ArchMikem

Oh I agree, I wouldn't want it to be a spammable. But I'd find it interesting to see a nightblade skill that was a execute at the start of the fight and was constrained around you needing to be in melee range, if you're in stealth and sneakin' up to them. In my opinion Snipe + Crit Rush far overperforms any kind of melee opener since they can be stacked upon one another, especially with how you can load a heavy attack into Crit Rush to pop all three at once. Now Ranged is the best stealth opener making ganking a hell of a lot easier, safer, and means ranged ganking has a lower risk with a greater reward, and melee ganking is high risk with lower reward.

SilverWF

The numbers may be too high

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Give it something like: This ability deals 300% more damage to targets at or under 25% health, or when used from stealth (Not cloak)

Edit: Also, looking more at the damage numbers on the tooltip, damage from stealth only being increased by 200% seems less overpowered, and brings it in line to almost the same damage as uppercut/snipe base damage.

Even 200% is WAY too much. Especially, paired with other stuff, like Viper.
More oneshots - that's what we looked for, really! Not.

Avran_Sylt

@Juhasow

I'm thinking the problem with NB's is that their ganking potential from ranged distance over-performs their ganking potential from melee distance. Also because the best ganking setup is totally separated from the NB class.

Snipe + Crit Rsuh (with vMA 2H) + Loading Heavy during Crit Rush + Proc Sets All hitting at once or nearly at once, from 22m away, NB not even required. Then you could follow up with : LA+ Berserker Strike while they're stunned and down. Nothing about that requires a NB skill. Only thing that NB's really bring to the table is Incap Strike, a cheaper version of Berseker strike that deals less damage initially, but stuns and grants extra damage.