Please make Dark Exchange charge its cost if it's interrupted.

NightbladeMechanics

Make sorcs think a little bit about when to cast it, and punish careless casts.

In my opinion, this is the only nerf it needs in order to be balanced next patch. Revert the .2 second increased cast time if you want.

Give it the appropriate risk comparable to its reward.

(My magicka sorc runs a Dark Conversion build, so I'm not not biased.)

K4RMA

Agreed, probably the best proposed change I've seen

also...

l2p

Ankael07

It should be the same with every spell that has cast time.

NightbladeMechanics

K4RMA wrote: »

l2p

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SleepyTroll

Completely agree.

Tonturri

We've been through several patch cycles on the PTS already. People who want sorcs nerfed are asking for this. Sorcs are asking for this. I'd be very interested to know why ZOS HASN'T implemented the change yet.

+1

Feanor

Totally confident that ZOS will get that right. What we'll have is chains 2.0, which will cost resources when the skill doesn't complete or bugs out in another besides being interrupted. If it must be nerfed because the Sorc nerf movement won't be happy otherwise I'd rather have them adjust the resource regain values slightly than mess with a working skill.

Katinas

Make it share cooldown with Revealing Flare.

actosh

Skill should cost ressources upon cast, if u get interupted, bad for you.

Cant understand why DD didnt get the same treatment as other ressourc skills.
Would be more fun to let it restore the values over a certain time frame like 10 secs.

Katinas

It costs your opponent stamina to bash it or magicka/stamina to cast a skill that interrupts it. Why should it refund cost for you when your Dark Exchange gets interrupted? Perhaps it should refund costs to the other guy who succcessfully interrupted it? If anything, he did the smarter thing and interrupted you.

Emma_Overload

NO! This ability is already a pain to use because you can't switch bars until the LONG cast time is over, and they just made the cast time even longer!

Adernath

Ey Nightblade OP

L2P.

Brrrofski

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO! This ability is already a pain to use because you can't switch bars until the LONG cast time is over, and they just made the cast time even longer!

You cry about balancing all the broken stuff. Really makes me think you need a lot of crutches.

Don't make a habit of calling people out, but seen you in 3 threads already this morning crying about broken stuff being addressed.

Everyone has been calling for this change to dark morph forever. I have 3 Stam sorcs (one on EU and two on NA) and openly admitted this is broken. Hence why I made two on NA, lack of regen due to low CP (167) is completely irrelevant due to this skill. It's so broken.

Asmael

Please make Dark Exchange any ability with a cast time charge its cost if it's interrupted.

Fixed.

Wouldn't even mind revert the Dark deal cast time increase.

Biro123

Asmael wrote: »

Please make Dark Exchange any ability with a cast time charge its cost if it's interrupted.

Fixed.

Wouldn't even mind revert the Dark deal cast time increase.

Yep, all should work the same way.

Please though, while calling for Dark Deal nerfs, consider its performance on the test server - and the fact that you have both less recovery of the resource that fuels it, and a smaller pool (assuming nocp is the way to go for PVP now)

Asmael

Biro123 wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Please make Dark Exchange any ability with a cast time charge its cost if it's interrupted.

Fixed.

Wouldn't even mind revert the Dark deal cast time increase.

Yep, all should work the same way.

Please though, while calling for Dark Deal nerfs, consider its performance on the test server - and the fact that you have both less recovery of the resource that fuels it, and a smaller pool (assuming nocp is the way to go for PVP now)

Bash is the counterplay, but as it is, the counterplay doesn't offer you that much of an edge. Dark Deal is a strong ability, but that doesn't mean it should be nerfed, just that it should require both the caster and the basher to have proper positioning and timing.

(and screw forums for early posting, buggy mess)

Emma_Overload

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO! This ability is already a pain to use because you can't switch bars until the LONG cast time is over, and they just made the cast time even longer!

You cry about balancing all the broken stuff. Really makes me think you need a lot of crutches.

Don't make a habit of calling people out, but seen you in 3 threads already this morning crying about broken stuff being addressed.

Everyone has been calling for this change to dark morph forever. I have 3 Stam sorcs (one on EU and two on NA) and openly admitted this is broken. Hence why I made two on NA, lack of regen due to low CP (167) is completely irrelevant due to this skill. It's so broken.

LOL at "Everyone", what a lot of nonsense. If the sorc-haters actually get the nerfs they're begging for, believe me, the forums will be FULL of complaining, unhappy Sorcs.

This skill is already hard to use in PvP for Magicka Sorcs, it doesn't need any more nerfs. The only reason stam Sorcs get away with it is because they're probably wearing heavy armor and have Hurricane up so they can weather the blows during that long-ass cast time.

And your calling me out is ridiculous, because what you euphemistically call "broken stuff being addressed" is really just a bunch of pointless nerfs that benefit one group of players at the expense of another. Sounds to me like YOU are the one looking for crutches!

Feanor

@NightbladeMechanics

So the Sorcs should get punished because everyone takes the morphs with the higher damage than the ones with utility? Crushing Shock and Venom Arrow exist. They are cheap spammables. If your change is put in the Sorc can only safely DD if he has LOSed or CCed the attacker. While the attacker gets to do what he would do anyway, spam the cheap skill. Doesn't make sense.

Valencer

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO! This ability is already a pain to use because you can't switch bars until the LONG cast time is over, and they just made the cast time even longer!

You cry about balancing all the broken stuff. Really makes me think you need a lot of crutches.

Don't make a habit of calling people out, but seen you in 3 threads already this morning crying about broken stuff being addressed.

Everyone has been calling for this change to dark morph forever. I have 3 Stam sorcs (one on EU and two on NA) and openly admitted this is broken. Hence why I made two on NA, lack of regen due to low CP (167) is completely irrelevant due to this skill. It's so broken.

LOL at "Everyone", what a lot of nonsense. If the sorc-haters actually get the nerfs they're begging for, believe me, the forums will be FULL of complaining, unhappy Sorcs.

This skill is already hard to use in PvP for Magicka Sorcs, it doesn't need any more nerfs. The only reason stam Sorcs get away with it is because they're probably wearing heavy armor and have Hurricane up so they can weather the blows during that long-ass cast time.

And your calling me out is ridiculous, because what you euphemistically call "broken stuff being addressed" is really just a bunch of pointless nerfs that benefit one group of players at the expense of another. Sounds to me like YOU are the one looking for crutches!

because magicka sorcs are really struggling right now

Edziu

Feanor wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics

So the Sorcs should get punished because everyone takes the morphs with the higher damage than the ones with utility? Crushing Shock and Venom Arrow exist. They are cheap spammables. If your change is put in the Sorc can only safely DD if he has LOSed or CCed the attacker. While the attacker gets to do what he would do anyway, spam the cheap skill. Doesn't make sense.

its very very rarely seen also on cyrodil this crushing shot but more often then venom arrow instead of poison inject which is awesome execute dot...playing on cyrodil fewm months I have seen venom arrow maybe only once whil crushing shot just few times

Biro123

I wonder what a fully charged resto heavy or 1-h+s heavy returns now with the buffs.. and how it compared to dark exchange/deal.. given that they cost nothing to cast.

It could push dark exchange into the overload bar for 'non-comabat' recov only..

Feanor

That's a good point too @Biro123 . I too think that heavy restos will be prominent.

Sugaroverdose

Biro123 wrote: »

I wonder what a fully charged resto heavy or 1-h+s heavy returns now with the buffs.. and how it compared to dark exchange/deal.. given that they cost nothing to cast.

It could push dark exchange into the overload bar for 'non-comabat' recov only..

No-one gives a f where this ability goes, but it must be fixed.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO! This ability is already a pain to use because you can't switch bars until the LONG cast time is over, and they just made the cast time even longer!

You cry about balancing all the broken stuff. Really makes me think you need a lot of crutches.

Don't make a habit of calling people out, but seen you in 3 threads already this morning crying about broken stuff being addressed.

Everyone has been calling for this change to dark morph forever. I have 3 Stam sorcs (one on EU and two on NA) and openly admitted this is broken. Hence why I made two on NA, lack of regen due to low CP (167) is completely irrelevant due to this skill. It's so broken.

LOL at "Everyone", what a lot of nonsense. If the sorc-haters actually get the nerfs they're begging for, believe me, the forums will be FULL of complaining, unhappy Sorcs.

This skill is already hard to use in PvP for Magicka Sorcs, it doesn't need any more nerfs. The only reason stam Sorcs get away with it is because they're probably wearing heavy armor and have Hurricane up so they can weather the blows during that long-ass cast time.

And your calling me out is ridiculous, because what you euphemistically call "broken stuff being addressed" is really just a bunch of pointless nerfs that benefit one group of players at the expense of another. Sounds to me like YOU are the one looking for crutches!

Extremely f hard(also applicable to sorcs "buff streak"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEnKBOBMcO0&t=0s

Feanor wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics

So the Sorcs should get punished because everyone takes the morphs with the higher damage than the ones with utility? Crushing Shock and Venom Arrow exist. They are cheap spammables. If your change is put in the Sorc can only safely DD if he has LOSed or CCed the attacker. While the attacker gets to do what he would do anyway, spam the cheap skill. Doesn't make sense.

I chase stamsorc sprinting on mDK for 1 minute, interrupt DD with deep breath(3.5k cost), how do you think, who will not have any resources when this minute exceeds with current DD state?

BohnT

DD is the most broken skill in this game. No other skill is so damn effective in what it does. Anyone saying that slotting venom arrow or crushing shock is a good counter has no idea how this skill is best used. You don't use DD when you face an enemy you LOS them and then use DD for lots of resources that other classes can't compete with except for dk with a 250! Ulti.
Additionally you can dodge cancel DD on pts you use it and dodge after .3 sec and the skill will still go through so no chances for bashing the enemy.
Any other class has to fight enemies to regain resources, dk can use igneous but for such a bad exchange rate. Templar needs corpses for repentance and nb can currently restore 1k stam after 20 sec without attacking an enemy or a maximum of 5000 stam over 20 second with perfect light attack weaving. I can gain 5k stam on pts with my sorc in 1.2 seconds without any problems.
There is a too huge gap between DD/ DE and any other resource restoring ability in this game.
And the best thing is DD isn't very expensive. Make it cost the same amount as siege shield and I am fine

Feanor

You don't use DD when you face an enemy you LOS them and then use DD for lots of resources that other classes can't compete with except for dk with a 250! Ulti.

And making it charge resources on interrupt will change exactly what then? Have you ever played a Templar facing a mag character with Crushing Shock or a stam character with Venom Arrow? Try. Bonus points if you think charging cost on interrupt is fine and fun gameplay afterwards.

Emma_Overload

BohnT wrote: »

DD is the most broken skill in this game. No other skill is so damn effective in what it does. Anyone saying that slotting venom arrow or crushing shock is a good counter has no idea how this skill is best used. You don't use DD when you face an enemy you LOS them and then use DD for lots of resources that other classes can't compete with except for dk with a 250! Ulti.
Additionally you can dodge cancel DD on pts you use it and dodge after .3 sec and the skill will still go through so no chances for bashing the enemy.
Any other class has to fight enemies to regain resources, dk can use igneous but for such a bad exchange rate. Templar needs corpses for repentance and nb can currently restore 1k stam after 20 sec without attacking an enemy or a maximum of 5000 stam over 20 second with perfect light attack weaving. I can gain 5k stam on pts with my sorc in 1.2 seconds without any problems.
There is a too huge gap between DD/ DE and any other resource restoring ability in this game.
And the best thing is DD isn't very expensive. Make it cost the same amount as siege shield and I am fine

That dodge cancelling you're talking about is only going to work well for Stamina Sorcs. Magicka Sorcs are not going to be doing any dodge rolling.

BohnT

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

DD is the most broken skill in this game. No other skill is so damn effective in what it does. Anyone saying that slotting venom arrow or crushing shock is a good counter has no idea how this skill is best used. You don't use DD when you face an enemy you LOS them and then use DD for lots of resources that other classes can't compete with except for dk with a 250! Ulti.
Additionally you can dodge cancel DD on pts you use it and dodge after .3 sec and the skill will still go through so no chances for bashing the enemy.
Any other class has to fight enemies to regain resources, dk can use igneous but for such a bad exchange rate. Templar needs corpses for repentance and nb can currently restore 1k stam after 20 sec without attacking an enemy or a maximum of 5000 stam over 20 second with perfect light attack weaving. I can gain 5k stam on pts with my sorc in 1.2 seconds without any problems.
There is a too huge gap between DD/ DE and any other resource restoring ability in this game.
And the best thing is DD isn't very expensive. Make it cost the same amount as siege shield and I am fine

That dodge cancelling you're talking about is only going to work well for Stamina Sorcs. Magicka Sorcs are not going to be doing any dodge rolling.

Then you should definitely use 3 well fitted pieces and some cps for reduced dodge cost and enjoy a sorc that is stronger than any meta sorc with pirate Skeleton because dodge works on all classes. If you add amberplasm have fun and see that you won't die to things you died to before

olsborg

Ankael07 wrote: »

It should be the same with every spell that has cast time.

Yes

BohnT

Feanor wrote: »

You don't use DD when you face an enemy you LOS them and then use DD for lots of resources that other classes can't compete with except for dk with a 250! Ulti.

And making it charge resources on interrupt will change exactly what then? Have you ever played a Templar facing a mag character with Crushing Shock or a stam character with Venom Arrow? Try. Bonus points if you think charging cost on interrupt is fine and fun gameplay afterwards.

Yes and as a templar you have skills which can't be interrupted but if you insist on spamming dark flare and beam against this build you deserve to die because you simply ignore that your abilities won't do anything.

No if I were in charge I reduced the resource regain by 60% and decrease the cast time to .6 sec or reduce the resource regain by 30% and change it to a regain over 25 sec.

GreenSoup2HoT

This was my idea first!

Brrrofski

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO! This ability is already a pain to use because you can't switch bars until the LONG cast time is over, and they just made the cast time even longer!

You cry about balancing all the broken stuff. Really makes me think you need a lot of crutches.

Don't make a habit of calling people out, but seen you in 3 threads already this morning crying about broken stuff being addressed.

Everyone has been calling for this change to dark morph forever. I have 3 Stam sorcs (one on EU and two on NA) and openly admitted this is broken. Hence why I made two on NA, lack of regen due to low CP (167) is completely irrelevant due to this skill. It's so broken.

LOL at "Everyone", what a lot of nonsense. If the sorc-haters actually get the nerfs they're begging for, believe me, the forums will be FULL of complaining, unhappy Sorcs.

This skill is already hard to use in PvP for Magicka Sorcs, it doesn't need any more nerfs. The only reason stam Sorcs get away with it is because they're probably wearing heavy armor and have Hurricane up so they can weather the blows during that long-ass cast time.

And your calling me out is ridiculous, because what you euphemistically call "broken stuff being addressed" is really just a bunch of pointless nerfs that benefit one group of players at the expense of another. Sounds to me like YOU are the one looking for crutches!

It's so hard to use that the meta is amberplasm and spam this for endless magica? Something doesn't add up there. Shield stack and use this is NOT hard.

I play every class in PvP except magica dk. So when I suggest buffs/nerfs, it's from a neutral standpoint. I know someone who plays one class (skill name in your name is a dead giveaway) feels like their class is being attacked, but they don't understand when something is not balanced because they don't see the other side.

You don't want the current op class nerfed ever so slightly (the change suggested here promotes intelligent use of the skill - risk/reward) and you we crying about losing a CP campaign. It's very much you who needs crutches. I mean if you think using amberplasm and dark exchange behind 20k shield is hard to pull off.... says it all really.