So no attempts in making the 2H competitive in PvE?

Strider_Roshin

In ESO Live they mentioned that they're improving the survivability of stam in trials by increasing the AoE mitigation of Blade Cloak from 20% to 25%.

This is great and all, but it just tells me that ZOS has no interest in giving the 2H a presence in endgame PvE

leepalmer95

2h is for pvp
Dw is for pve.

theamazingx

If it makes you feel better, my group's tank got the last hit on Rakkhat with a 2hander on our first HM clear. They're being represented to some degree.

On a more serious note, keeping 2h about burst, cc, and selfheals makes it great for pvp, and dw's focus on sustained dps makes it great for pve. They don't consider "2hander" a class spec, they consider Stam Melee a class spec. So the current setup allows for a stam melee to do well at either thing. "Play how you want" can only go so far without everything feeling the same.

STEVIL

For this patch, yes.

Personally i agree with it but...

leepalmer95

theamazingx wrote: »

If it makes you feel better, my group's tank got the last hit on Rakkhat with a 2hander on our first HM clear. They're being represented to some degree.

On a more serious note, keeping 2h about burst, cc, and selfheals makes it great for pvp, and dw's focus on sustained dps makes it great for pve. They don't consider "2hander" a class spec, they consider Stam Melee a class spec. So the current setup allows for a stam melee to do well at either thing. "Play how you want" can only go so far without everything feeling the same.

Even if they buff 2h, someone will do the maths and find the optimal setup then either one or the other will be best in slot dps and that'll become used and the other won't.

They could buff 2h, if it becomes better than dw then dw won't be used, then do you buff dw?

Honestly 2h is already a very strong weapon type for pvp, it doesn't need buffing.

Strider_Roshin

leepalmer95 wrote: »

2h is for pvp
Dw is for pve.

DW is strong in PvP with stamblades, Stamplars, magplars, and MagSorcs.

2H is never strong in PvE.

leepalmer95

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

2h is for pvp
Dw is for pve.

DW is strong in PvP with stamblades, Stamplars, magplars, and MagSorcs.

2H is never strong in PvE.

You can use a 2h setup in pve to complete 95% of the pve content easily.

It's only in the competitive end game that dw is basically a must.

STEVIL

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

2h is for pvp
Dw is for pve.

DW is strong in PvP with stamblades, Stamplars, magplars, and MagSorcs.

2H is never strong in PvE.

You can use a 2h setup in pve to complete 95% of the pve content easily.

It's only in the competitive end game that dw is basically a must.

Really only in end-game group-trial dps sustain.

NightbladeMechanics

@usmcjdking how much dps do you pull with your 2h PvE setup?

BenzZos

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

2h is for pvp
Dw is for pve.

DW is strong in PvP with stamblades, Stamplars, magplars, and MagSorcs.

2H is never strong in PvE.

You can use a 2h setup in pve to complete 95% of the pve content easily.

It's only in the competitive end game that dw is basically a must.

2h is good against mudcrabs, goats, centipedes, and other players in pvp

DW is good in any dungeon or trial

olsborg

2h heavy atk is very slow, but every other weapon will now have shorter heavy atk animation. I feel that 2h is becoming the odd "man" out.

lunalitetempler

Dude! Check out master arms passive.

Bringer

While you are at it make bow viable mainbar, and make 2h/dw or dw/2h good as well.

LiquidPony

I'm actually having pretty good success with a 2H stamDK build on PTS right now.

Lower single-target DPS than a DW build but the cleave is much better.

scorpiodog

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

In ESO Live they mentioned that they're improving the survivability of stam in trials by increasing the AoE mitigation of Blade Cloak from 20% to 25%.

This is great and all, but it just tells me that ZOS has no interest in giving the 2H a presence in endgame PvE

Is the goal to make everything just as competitive as everything else?

Integral1900

Hmm, well, all my characters have either two handed or staff, with the odd bow or sword an shield as a buff bar, I've done all the pve content except vMoL and never had any complaints, also my wife does historical reenacting and the whole idea of dual wield really annoys them (in truth it's utterly impractical) also I'm not arguing with a gorgeous lady that can wield a 160 pound Glamorgan long bow

On pts, heavy attacks with cp changes, cleave and the aoe execute are just brutal

usmcjdking

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@usmcjdking how much dps do you pull with your 2h PvE setup?

On live, best I've been able to get was 32k on my Stam DK.

On PTS it bumped up to barely 35k due to Master-At-Arms CP buffing the everloving *** out of HA/WBs, Rotation did not need to change at all. 2H damage wise is where it should be on PTS. It's got great splash damage but lacks a bit in raw AOE during waves or billions of adds.

2H's weakness is that rally is complete doodoo compared to blade cloak in trials, and a single target impact on brawler is nowhere near enough to make up for the loss in persistant AOE dmg reduction. Fwd momentum is actually a tremendous skill with a TON of impact in trials until the moment you get functionally 1 shot because no blade cloak.

LtCrunch

I'd say 2h is probably in the best place it's ever been for PVE. The increased focus on heavy attacks feeds directly into the 2h passive that grants a mini-empower after each heavy attack. 2h also got a buff to it's cleave in the most recent patch, which is one of the things many people bring up as a issue for stamDPS in general. It's probably not enough to change the top-end meta, but time will tell. It's rather difficult to change people's minds about such things once a meta has been long established. Hell there are still plenty of people who will tell you Sorc pets suck...

Vaoh

Tbh if you look at the 2H skill line it might not be wise to make it viable in PvE.

Two Handed is so unique..... you would have to crush the skill line and create balance issues to give it the proper DPS. I would rather it stays as it is unless ZOS finds a very clever way to buff it only for PvE.

LtCrunch

usmcjdking wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@usmcjdking how much dps do you pull with your 2h PvE setup?

On live, best I've been able to get was 32k on my Stam DK.

On PTS it bumped up to barely 35k due to Master-At-Arms CP buffing the everloving *** out of HA/WBs, Rotation did not need to change at all. 2H damage wise is where it should be on PTS. It's got great splash damage but lacks a bit in raw AOE during waves or billions of adds.

2H's weakness is that rally is complete doodoo compared to blade cloak in trials, and a single target impact on brawler is nowhere near enough to make up for the loss in persistant AOE dmg reduction. Fwd momentum is actually a tremendous skill with a TON of impact in trials until the moment you get functionally 1 shot because no blade cloak.

I haven't really gotten into vet trials just yet, but why not have someone run bone shield and have all Stam characters stack on them for the synergy for fights and phases where survivability is an issue? Surely a shield good for 60% of your max HP is strong enough to avoid any one shot phases/mechanics, ya?

Also with the changes to caltrops maybe running a 2h/DW setup is worth considering? Again I don't have any personal experience in vet trials, I'm genuinely curious if these simply aren't effective options or if nobody has bothered to test out such theories in favor of just following the established meta.

Alcast

Two hander might be pretty decent next patch, now especially IF they increase the heavy attack speed of the weapon type like they said on eso live.

It was only about 2-4k dps behind Dualwield on Morrowind PTS. Now might be even closer with the changes.

Strider_Roshin

Alcast wrote: »

Two hander might be pretty decent next patch, now especially IF they increase the heavy attack speed of the weapon type like they said on eso live.

It was only about 2-4k dps behind Dualwield on Morrowind PTS. Now might be even closer with the changes.

Yeah, but DW will still have slightly more dps, but with more mitigation (blade cloak), and better itemization (5,5,2).

Nolic1

Alcast wrote: »

Two hander might be pretty decent next patch, now especially IF they increase the heavy attack speed of the weapon type like they said on eso live.

It was only about 2-4k dps behind Dualwield on Morrowind PTS. Now might be even closer with the changes.

Yeah I agree the 2-handed is not off by much DPS compared to DW which does have greater burst to some degree but only 1 skill its lacking is blade cloak but it does have a shield that builds on enemy's hit with the Brawler skill. It also has alot of cleave damage cause it hits multiple enemys with light attacks and with that getting its damage upped in Monday's patch on PTS we might see it a lot closer damage to make it even more viable for PvE.


And the those saying its only for PvP there is nothing in the game that is PvP and PvE except for some gear drops in PvP all skills are for both sides of the game even though some are for certain things in both PvP and PvE.

Rinmaethodain

2-handed have weak chances being good in PVE, compare it with DW and see how many dots 2-hander have and how many dots DW have. Its the dots that ultimately make weapon great (along with class dots and buffs).

Vaoh

Strong passive buff to Two Handed AoE cleave damage in PvE via light attacks. They are getting there through some smart changes.

Not entirely sure Two Handed will ever be worth it over DW though because DW has Blade Cloak as well as (more importantly) access to 2-5-5 setups.

The "Follow Up" or "Battle Rush" passives could be decent canidates to be given some sort of bonus damage mitigation.

Avran_Sylt

Hope they start giving 2H and DW the Lightning and Fire staff treatment. Make DW better at Single Target, 2H better at AoE.

Morgul667

I sure hope 2H will be competititve

Strider_Roshin

I'm a little more hopeful after reading the 3.0.4 patch notes. They won't be competitive ST-wise, but they might outperform DW in terms of trash mobs.

Strider_Roshin

An ideal scenario is to have DW be the best at ST, magicka best at AoE, and have the 2H be the 2nd best at both.

Lynx7386

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

An ideal scenario is to have DW be the best at ST, magicka best at AoE, and have the 2H be the 2nd best at both.

Second best never gets used. One weapon could be 1% better than another and it would always end up being the required choice.

LtCrunch

MaximusDargus wrote: »

2-handed have weak chances being good in PVE, compare it with DW and see how many dots 2-hander have and how many dots DW have. Its the dots that ultimately make weapon great (along with class dots and buffs).

What's stopping someone from using a 2h frontbar and DW back bar to take advantage of both? The benefits of the major DoTs from DW can still be had while using a 2h setup. Granted you'd be sacrificing volley and to a lesser extent poison injection.