Idea - One-Handed and Shield - Change Sword and Board Passive

Avran_Sylt

To add in more variety based on what weapon you choose:

As it is now:
Increases your Weapon Damage by 3% and the amount of damage you can block by 10%
Increases your Weapon Damage by 5% and the amount of damage you can block by 20%

Suggestion:
Increases your Weapon Damage by 3% and the amount of damage you can block by 10%
Dagger: Increases the Charge Speed of your Heavy Attacks by 10%
Sword: Your Heavy Attacks deal 25% additional damage in a short cone.
Axe: Your Heavy Attacks snare enemies for 2 seconds
Mace: Your Heavy attacks reduce the Physical Resistance of your target by 662 for 4 seconds.

Increases your Weapon Damage by 5% and the amount of damage you can block by 20%
Dagger: Increases the Charge Speed of your Heavy Attacks by 20%
Sword: Your Heavy Attacks deal 25% additional damage in a short cone.
Axe: Your Heavy Attacks snare enemies for 4 seconds.
Mace: Your Heavy attacks reduce the Physical Resistance of your target by 1,324 for 4 seconds.


Thoughts? Suggestions? Different Ideas?

Iccotak

Keep it Simple.
Maybe would be better in a single player Elder Scrolls game.
But here, There are already so many other things the player has to take into account in developing their builds while they are working on their skill.
They don't need even more things to think about when they don't have all the time in the world to play the game.

Yuke

I like it.

Avran_Sylt

@Iccotak

If you want it simple you don't have to think about what weapon you choose. as there are no negatives to this, this is only additive.

paulsimonps

Not sure about those specific ideas but I do dislike the fact that weapon choice matters for all types of weapons except One handed and shield. Something should be added, again not sure about those specific ideas, but then again I just woke up. Probably gonna come back and reread it later and give some more feedback on the idea.

MarzAttakz

I like the fundamental idea but have one question:

why heavy attacks specifically?

You're running sword and board for one reason and one reason only, personally I'd go with a dagger because the window for heavy attacks are rather small when tanking.

Avran_Sylt

@MarzAttakz

Oh, that's because it's the initial design, it's all subject to change.

reason for heavy attacks: since tanks all use heavy attacks to regain resources, and don't forget, the amount of resources restored is calculated by how long the charge for your heavy attack is.

So while the dagger heavy attack would be faster, it'd restore 20% less.

Juhasow

Yes lets make one hand and shield even more stronger in PvP !

Avran_Sylt

@Juhasow

Why is 1H and S so strong in PvP?

Benn G x

I agree different weapons should add some sort of benefit like other weapons, but I dislike the proposed idea. Cone damage? Who cares about damage when you're tanking

Juhasow

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Juhasow

Why is 1H and S so strong in PvP?

Look at it's skills with morphs and passives.

Avran_Sylt

@Juhasow

hmmm. Are your referring to Low Slash, Power Bash, and the cheese that is tremorscale/puncture in particular?

Juhasow

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Juhasow

hmmm. Are your referring to Low Slash, Power Bash, and the cheese that is tremorscale/puncture in particular?

If those skills wouldnt be strong that cheese wouldnt be possible. Ransack is the cheapest spammable direct dmg skill with strong debuff , heroic slash is packed up with bonuses , reverb bash is the only spammable skill with major defile in the game , ultimate is very strong and cheap not mentioning passives like block cost and dmg reduction and bash dmg increase and cost reduction which makes s&b only usefull skil line to light attack+skill+bash combo. Adding even more benefits to one hand and shields is pointless and also removes uniqueness that dual wield have in terms of one handed weapons.

Avran_Sylt

@Juhasow

Hmmmm. What if:

Tremorscale no longer slowed, but applied the knock-down effect to hit targets, was reduced to a 25% chance (since puncture is so cheap, and is used a crap tonne in dungeons on trash adds). And has reduced damage (as it's a CC proc)

Low Slash only applies minor main (base skill), Deep Slash introduces the slow, but only a 40% slow. Heroic slash stays the same (but since the base skill no longer applies a slow, it won't either)

(Low slash with a sword hits two nearby enemies, low slash with an axe applies a small bleed, low slash with a dagger has an increased crit chance, low slash with a mace applies minor fracture).

Reverberating bash no longer applies major defile, but instead knocks-back the enemy 5m in addition to stunning them.

Juhasow

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Juhasow

Hmmmm. What if:

Tremorscale no longer slowed, but applied the knock-down effect to hit targets, was reduced to a 25% chance (since puncture is so cheap, and is used a crap tonne in dungeons on trash adds). And has reduced damage (as it's a CC proc)

Low Slash only applies minor main (base skill), Deep Slash introduces the slow, but only a 40% slow. Heroic slash stays the same (but since the base skill no longer applies a slow, it won't either)

(Low slash with a sword hits two nearby enemies, low slash with an axe applies a small bleed, low slash with a dagger has an increased crit chance, low slash with a mace applies minor fracture).

Reverberating bash no longer applies major defile, but instead knocks-back the enemy 5m in addition to stunning them.

Or we can just keep everything as it is. Also knockbacks doesnt fit well to weapon that is strongly melee. If You knock someone back 5 meters when he was already like 5-8 meters away from You then You knock him out of Your range and You need to spend resources or time to gap closing him. About monster set there is already one that gives knockdown it's called sellstrix or something like that.

Avran_Sylt

Juhasow wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Juhasow

Hmmmm. What if:

Tremorscale no longer slowed, but applied the knock-down effect to hit targets, was reduced to a 25% chance (since puncture is so cheap, and is used a crap tonne in dungeons on trash adds). And has reduced damage (as it's a CC proc)

Low Slash only applies minor main (base skill), Deep Slash introduces the slow, but only a 40% slow. Heroic slash stays the same (but since the base skill no longer applies a slow, it won't either)

(Low slash with a sword hits two nearby enemies, low slash with an axe applies a small bleed, low slash with a dagger has an increased crit chance, low slash with a mace applies minor fracture).

Reverberating bash no longer applies major defile, but instead knocks-back the enemy 5m in addition to stunning them.

Or we can just keep everything as it is. Also knockbacks doesnt fit well to weapon that is strongly melee. If You knock someone back 5 meters when he was already like 5-8 meters away from You then You knock him out of Your range and You need to spend resources or time to gap closing him. About monster set there is already one that gives knockdown it's called sellstrix or something like that.

Sellestrix is a stun, not knockdown. Though fair enough point on the knockback not fitting well with the melee type. But perhaps since it is an instant cast ability, and also a stun, it should be reduced to minor defile? Or are Major Defile and the 60% snare (low slash) good currently?

Juhasow

Stun or knockdown basicly do the same. Minor defile is also bad solution. Imagine nb that can apply You reverb bash with minor defile and then incap with major defile with befoul CP around 33%. It would cut Your healing by over 60% while his dmg go up by 20% which means totall overkill.

Avran_Sylt

Juhasow wrote: »

Stun or knockdown basicly do the same. Minor defile is also bad solution. Imagine nb that can apply You reverb bash with minor defile and then incap with major defile with befoul CP around 33%. It would cut Your healing by over 60% while his dmg go up by 20% which means totall overkill.

Fair enough

paulsimonps

Adding variation and special effect to individual One Handed & Shield weapons does not remove the uniqeness of Dual Wield Passives, and considering Dual Wield has the same bonuses to their Swords, Axes and Maces as 2 Handed I would say it didn't have uniqueness to begin with.

Either way. I do really want One Handed and Shield to have something too, it doesn't make sense that its literally the only skill line with multiple weapons choices that makes the weapon choices not matter. 2 Handed, Dual Wield and Destruction staff all have their special effect depending on weapon choice.

Rename Battlefield Mobility to Battlefield Diversity or something and put the passives that changes the weapons effect there.

I kind of like the idea that all of these effects only apply in Heavy attacks though cause it would insentivice us to drop block more as tanks.

The mace being resistance based works well I think, but to not make it too strong make it be Minor Fracture, not a super common debuff and would fit in well with the theme of things

Daggers could be Minor Uncertainty, basically being the opposite of what Dual Wield daggers do. Currently a debuff only accesible through potions.

Axes doing a snare I think works well, but it would be to bad having it be small snare and adding a small Bleed. Scale it right and it won't be too bad.

Swords I don't think I will be able to come up with anything better so yea

But also while I like the heavy attack idea, I am not so sure the duration or 100% chance on Heavy attack is that good of an idea. But balancing like that is above my pay grade, suggestion however is just on my level. So yea, they are suggestion and nothing more. Probably won't see anything like this added to one handed and shield but one can at least have some hope they will add something to give us more diversity.

Solariken

Cool idea, it would be awesome if weapon type played into your snb build.

Your suggestions are nice, only things I would add are a bleed to the axe and maybe an off-balance proc to maces.

Anti_Virus

MarzAttakz wrote: »

I like the fundamental idea but have one question:

why heavy attacks specifically?

You're running sword and board for one reason and one reason only, personally I'd go with a dagger because the window for heavy attacks are rather small when tanking.

You don't always tank with Sword and Shield though.

Avran_Sylt

@Anti_Virus

True, I'll have to rethink these again

josiahva

MarzAttakz wrote: »

I like the fundamental idea but have one question:

why heavy attacks specifically?

You're running sword and board for one reason and one reason only, personally I'd go with a dagger because the window for heavy attacks are rather small when tanking.

You are tanking wrong then, aside from very specific fights where you need to perma-block for relatively long periods of time, there are PLENTY of opportunities for heavy attacks. I only the block the MINIMUM amount of time needed. This is why I walk around at armor cap unbuffed, so I dont have to waste as many resources on blocking, it is much more effective for me to be using stam to taunt other enemies, debuff, etc, than to be blocking when I dont need to. All the bosses/enemies telegraph when you need to be blocking, all other times are an opportunity to restore stam through heavy attacks, let your stam regen naturally since you arent blocking, throw on a bone shield hoping some melee DPS will hit spinal surge/bone wall synergy to buff up rest of group survivability or in general do something useful to the group.

Choices.
1. Permablock and do nothing useful
2. Cast Heroic Slash, generating extra ult so warhorn gets up faster

1. Permablock and do nothing useful
2. Cast Bone shield hoping a melee DPS synergizes to a 2/3rds health shield for everyone close

1. Permablock and do nothing useful
2. Cast Inner Fire and pull a troll off the DPS

1. Permablock and do nothing useful
2. Cast caltrops and slow mobs down(either morph)

1. Permablock and do nothing useful
2. Heavy attack and get stamina back so healer doesnt have to waste resources throwing you a shard when that shard could go to a DPS instead.