A stamina nightblade who was trying to be positive

MiniMoggie

Throughout the last few weeks since the announced sustain changes I've tried to ignore all the crying and complaining on the forums and reddit. I've been positive even about my own class. I'm not an elite player by any stretch of the imagination. I could get about 20k dps self buffed on a target dummy. My dps may not have been very high but I could at least sustain myself fairly well but I was practicing and learning and getting better. I was even able to run with my guild during vet trials even though nightblades are generally frowned upon elsewhere. My character is wearing 5 piece VO, 5 pieces of NMG and 2 pieces Velidreth. I have never completed vMA as I'm just not good enough and only got as far as stage 5 and that was after months of working at stage 2. I will probably never get any further.

Tonight with my character finally copied over to the PTS I made the necessary changes to my CP, changed my siphoning attacks morph to leeching strikes which is not levelled and went to a target dummy and tried my usual rotation. My sustain was so bad it was unplayable and my dps was a sorry 14k. So I went and crafted some stam regen glyphs and put 2 of them on my jewelry pieces and tried again and did lots of heavy attacking. My stamina barely lasted much longer. I feel I have regressed.

This is my main character that I've wanted to get all achievements on. I may not be on any leader boards but I worked hard to get to where I was. The whole time tonight my stamina bar was empty. If this had been a dungeon or trial I'd have constantly been dead because I had no stamina to dodge or block. I couldn't even use leeching strikes because I was out of stamina and yet my magicka bar is sitting there untouched because I have no abilities now that use it.

The elite players will find a way around this but unfortunately I'm not one of them and now my character that I've worked hard to learn to play is now unplayable.

FlyLionel

Sad story really, great to hear feedback from you though. I like these posts very much, maybe you'll have to use a full 5pc set just for sustaining now?

Tholian1

My current dps on a target dummy is a sad 16k. Not looking forward to seeing it go even lower because the top players have power creep.

Uriel_Nocturne

Great feedback, OP.

Sadly, your story is becoming all too common, and will hit new players even harder than you or I.

The worse part: experiences like yours, mine, and whole legions of other players on these PTS testings are nigh identical, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears from the Developers.

Why? I honestly cannot fathom why they're ignoring feedback from players that they've specifically opened this content up to be tested by... they want us to test it. They say they want our honest feedback. Then they summarily dismiss any/all feedback when that very feedback and testing proves that their upcoming changes to the game are going to be horrible for the game.

I simply cannot wrap my mind around idiocy like this...

Rohamad_Ali

They should rename it Marrowind- Feel the Burn! Cause everyone gonna be like ...

Xvorg

[sorc mode on]

You need to l2p your class

[sorc mode off]


Stamblade was a sad class... now it's just... IDK

Brrrofski

Their whole "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" philosophy is so, so wrong.

Like you said, those top tier players will find a way. The average and below player is who will suffer most. VMA is a great example. For those who can't do it yet (I still somewhat struggle and die a good 10 times), how will they ever do it? Those who can will still be able to with some more work, but those who can't never will.

Apply that to trials and group dungeons too. Group finder dungeons is going to be impossible. Tanks trying to learn to tank... Good luck. The floor raised so much for them that they sank right through it.

Pve for a lot is too easy. I can grab a group from my guild and smash most content with ease. But next patch, it will be slower and a lot more boring. What insentives are there for us to even Pve? Doing the same content we've done 100 times again but with more of a grind than before. Why would we? We're just farming any possible gear we want now.

PvP I get it. I think the changes (class balance aside) will be great. For for Pve... Seem a lazy way to bring challenge to it instead of adding new, challenging content.

Uriel_Nocturne

Brrrofski wrote: »

Their whole "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" philosophy is so, so wrong.

Like you said, those top tier players will find a way. The average and below player is who will suffer most. VMA is a great example. For those who can't do it yet (I still somewhat struggle and die a good 10 times), how will they ever do it? Those who can will still be able to with some more work, but those who can't never will.

Apply that to trials and group dungeons too. Group finder dungeons is going to be impossible. Tanks trying to learn to tank... Good luck. The floor raised so much for them that they sank right through it.

Pve for a lot is too easy. I can grab a group from my guild and smash most content with ease. But next patch, it will be slower and a lot more boring. What insentives are there for us to even Pve? Doing the same content we've done 100 times again but with more of a grind than before. Why would we? We're just farming any possible gear we want now.

PvP I get it. I think the changes (class balance aside) will be great. For for Pve... Seem a lazy way to bring challenge to it instead of adding new, challenging content.

Agreed, and well said.

wizzo45

Well stated. I wish they understood what they are doing to the "middle class" of the player base.

NyassaV

I just had a fight with my family... I didn't need more sad ***. @ZOS_RichLambert please save us

Capt_Morgan

FlyLionel wrote: »

Sad story really, great to hear feedback from you though. I like these posts very much, maybe you'll have to use a full 5pc set just for sustaining now?

VO is a sustain set...

LiquidPony

Put 100 points in Tenacity CP and heavy attack more.

You don't need regen enchantments or regen gear, IMO. The regen just doesn't make enough of a difference in PvE. There's no downtime in a PvE rotation.

On your DW bar, try to weave Heavy-->Rapid Strikes or Heavy-->Rending Slashes. You should get at least 1 heavy attack in every time you're on your DW bar, sometimes 2. With that setup, you ought to be able to sustain a 3m target skeleton solo.

It is really shocking when you first log onto the PTS and see what these goofballs have done to your build in the name of Battlegrounds balance. But, once you adjust a bit, it's not that awful. It's stupid, it's boring, it slows the game down and I don't like it at all ... but, at least for me, the only difference between my Live build and my PTS build is ... I replace about a third to half of my Rapid Strikes with heavy attacks and allocate my CP differently.

Narvuntien

I mean i have 14k dps on live , how terrible is going to be for me?

Although 54K 1 second burst but damage from stealth was also nerfed. .

FlyLionel

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Sad story really, great to hear feedback from you though. I like these posts very much, maybe you'll have to use a full 5pc set just for sustaining now?

VO is a sustain set...

Really? Or is the 5p just for sustain? I'm talking about a real sustain set like seducer/amberplasm/lich/bone pirate, something people don't want to use because it'll hurt dps. A lot. @Capt_Morgan

argouru

My long-time main has been my orc stamblade and he does good... Until I started playing Vet dungeons with him and learned just how poor his survivability is. With no decent immediate heal of his own and no effective damage shield, he dies a lot. Now with the upcoming changes he'll be rendered entirely unplayable. I've since swapped over to my pet sorc and have done a lot better, but they need to fix these issues with stamblades. Why not make one of the Strife morphs stamina-based so he has a decent heal? Why not turn one of the morphs of Blur into a damage shield? Sudden kill tactics like the ones stamblades are good at are useless against vet-level bosses. They need to be made competitive again from a pve vet content standpoint.

Enslaved

Error.

necronomniconb14_ESO

MiniMoggie wrote: »

Throughout the last few weeks since the announced sustain changes I've tried to ignore all the crying and complaining on the forums and reddit. I've been positive even about my own class. I'm not an elite player by any stretch of the imagination. I could get about 20k dps self buffed on a target dummy. My dps may not have been very high but I could at least sustain myself fairly well but I was practicing and learning and getting better. I was even able to run with my guild during vet trials even though nightblades are generally frowned upon elsewhere. My character is wearing 5 piece VO, 5 pieces of NMG and 2 pieces Velidreth. I have never completed vMA as I'm just not good enough and only got as far as stage 5 and that was after months of working at stage 2. I will probably never get any further.

Tonight with my character finally copied over to the PTS I made the necessary changes to my CP, changed my siphoning attacks morph to leeching strikes which is not levelled and went to a target dummy and tried my usual rotation. My sustain was so bad it was unplayable and my dps was a sorry 14k. So I went and crafted some stam regen glyphs and put 2 of them on my jewelry pieces and tried again and did lots of heavy attacking. My stamina barely lasted much longer. I feel I have regressed.

This is my main character that I've wanted to get all achievements on. I may not be on any leader boards but I worked hard to get to where I was. The whole time tonight my stamina bar was empty. If this had been a dungeon or trial I'd have constantly been dead because I had no stamina to dodge or block. I couldn't even use leeching strikes because I was out of stamina and yet my magicka bar is sitting there untouched because I have no abilities now that use it.

The elite players will find a way around this but unfortunately I'm not one of them and now my character that I've worked hard to learn to play is now unplayable.

Refund morrowind, sell your eso, buy stormwind for final fantasy 14 which is it's own expansion releasing in june.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/stormblood/

That's what I have done. I am glad i was smart enough to wait on morrowind and not waste any more money on impulse purchases than i did on the suspiciously timed crown sale recently. I will tack it onto the price when I cash in on eso if anybody is still interested in it by then.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

They should rename it Marrowind- Feel the Burn! Cause everyone gonna be like ...

if in june it relaunches in this or too similar a state then it will be fact that all games named morrowind have awful and monotonous combat. It will be indisputable. Proven fact by two games named morrowind. having awful, tedious and unfun combat. Fool me once zyngamax, shame on you. Fool me twice... well you won't fool me twice.



http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/stormblood/ June 20th (Includes Heavensward content for those who don't have it and Heavensward was 10$ on a sale recently so I grabbed it anyways to catch up and prepare for Stormblood)

Faulgor

Brrrofski wrote: »

Their whole "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" philosophy is so, so wrong.

It's not, it's correct.
But it's not what happened.

Their blanket changes always lower everything.

necronomniconb14_ESO

LiquidPony wrote: »

It's stupid, it's boring, it slows the game down

That was all that you needed to say.
For some that becomes unplayable especially when you couple it with the lack of an ah (even if only alliance-based) that can have you spending well over an hour doing something that takes you less than afew minutes ttypically in any other game just to often find you can't even find what you were looking for to begin with. That or you spend as much time being blacklisted by nerds for shouting in zonechat like it's 1999 and you're playing everquest trying to sell some crap rare you found off of a named spawn or some bs.

The game basically wants to waste so much of your time that Zyngamax should be paying You to play it. You should literally receive a paycheck for playing after morrowind, perhaps even on the pts since you receive no permanent progress from it and Zyngamax never planned to listen to what any of you say about the changes. they only want you on the pts knowing the hardcore tend to be the most vocal players and they will spew Zyngamax's own propaganda for them with the legitimacy of it coming from other players over zynga's own incompetent devs that have to nuke something completely to compensate for the lack of will and skill required to balance things on more specific and individual levels.

Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen will actually balance their game, around pve and pvp content separately and all changes to skills will not impact the opposing format. As opposed to zyngamax saying "we balance lulz" but not being able to put their money where their mouth is. zyngamax pretty much has been appearing to me to be a smooth-talking sheister that is only out for your money and out to sell you some snake oil.

Easy-bake 'balance' coming soon to another pos near you coincidentally titled morrowind. Sorry, but sh*t combat = sh*t game. Then and now.

Perhaps someday once there is a decent private server I'll try the morrowind out, but I pretty much have written it out of my mind at this point.

Brrrofski

Faulgor wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Their whole "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" philosophy is so, so wrong.

It's not, it's correct.
But it's not what happened.

Their blanket changes always lower everything.

It was bad wording.

I agree with it, but it seemingly hasn't worked out that way.

Silver_Strider

necronomniconb14_ESO wrote: »

-Snip Stormblood Advertisement-

While I'll be the 1st to admit that I like FFXIV over ESO, I wouldn't go preaching and advertising it on the forums. Not because ZOS would really do anything but because, if Stormblood is anything like Heavensward at launch, there's going to be a fair bit of issues when it launches that might put people off of FFXIV. With the introduction of 2 new classes in Stormblood, new cross role system, new abilities for existing classes, etc. the margin for errors is fairly high that it might end up as just as big a mess as Morrowind on arrival with the only real difference being that SE does a much nicer job fixing issues than ZOS ever could.

Durham

Yes in mmorpg we build charactors to build... we spend hours/days/weeks to enhance our toons by 5 or 10% then someone comes along and tears it down ...

craftycarper73

necronomniconb14_ESO wrote: »

MiniMoggie wrote: »

Throughout the last few weeks since the announced sustain changes I've tried to ignore all the crying and complaining on the forums and reddit. I've been positive even about my own class. I'm not an elite player by any stretch of the imagination. I could get about 20k dps self buffed on a target dummy. My dps may not have been very high but I could at least sustain myself fairly well but I was practicing and learning and getting better. I was even able to run with my guild during vet trials even though nightblades are generally frowned upon elsewhere. My character is wearing 5 piece VO, 5 pieces of NMG and 2 pieces Velidreth. I have never completed vMA as I'm just not good enough and only got as far as stage 5 and that was after months of working at stage 2. I will probably never get any further.

Tonight with my character finally copied over to the PTS I made the necessary changes to my CP, changed my siphoning attacks morph to leeching strikes which is not levelled and went to a target dummy and tried my usual rotation. My sustain was so bad it was unplayable and my dps was a sorry 14k. So I went and crafted some stam regen glyphs and put 2 of them on my jewelry pieces and tried again and did lots of heavy attacking. My stamina barely lasted much longer. I feel I have regressed.

This is my main character that I've wanted to get all achievements on. I may not be on any leader boards but I worked hard to get to where I was. The whole time tonight my stamina bar was empty. If this had been a dungeon or trial I'd have constantly been dead because I had no stamina to dodge or block. I couldn't even use leeching strikes because I was out of stamina and yet my magicka bar is sitting there untouched because I have no abilities now that use it.

The elite players will find a way around this but unfortunately I'm not one of them and now my character that I've worked hard to learn to play is now unplayable.

Refund morrowind, sell your eso, buy stormwind for final fantasy 14 which is it's own expansion releasing in june.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/stormblood/

That's what I have done. I am glad i was smart enough to wait on morrowind and not waste any more money on impulse purchases than i did on the suspiciously timed crown sale recently. I will tack it onto the price when I cash in on eso if anybody is still interested in it by then.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

They should rename it Marrowind- Feel the Burn! Cause everyone gonna be like ...

if in june it relaunches in this or too similar a state then it will be fact that all games named morrowind have awful and monotonous combat. It will be indisputable. Proven fact by two games named morrowind. having awful, tedious and unfun combat. Fool me once zyngamax, shame on you. Fool me twice... well you won't fool me twice.



http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/stormblood/ June 20th (Includes Heavensward content for those who don't have it and Heavensward was 10$ on a sale recently so I grabbed it anyways to catch up and prepare for Stormblood)

never bothered with FF games just watched a gameplay video looks pretty interesting may give it a go, anyone know what the pop is like on ps4?

Bladerunner1

They didn't raise the floor for stamblades at all, players of every skill level suffer all the same and there's no silver lining with this patch. A stamblade can't say "oh well, at least I can compensate with this one neat skill at my disposal" like other classes. *Cough* heavy attack damage buffs.

Give the nimble stamblades something, ZOS. The mention on the last ESO live of a useful stealth ability buff in PVE is a start, but we're having a hard time with burning down PVE bosses with expensive and bursty single hit skills.

Enslaved

Only thing sNB can be positive on is skooma.

NightbladeMechanics

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Sad story really, great to hear feedback from you though. I like these posts very much, maybe you'll have to use a full 5pc set just for sustaining now?

VO is a sustain set...

Only for trash pulls. Otherwise it's a waste.

Narvuntien

necronomniconb14_ESO wrote: »

Refund morrowind, sell your eso, buy stormwind for final fantasy 14 which is it's own expansion releasing in june.

I have never played a FF game.
They all seemed extremely grindy and extremely boring.
I couldn't care less about the FF world or the FF lore.

It is this MMO or no MMOs for me.

We are here being angry at the changes because we like THIS game and want it to be BETTER.

grim_tactics

Sadly, this is what happens when a company refuses to separate PvP and PvE and 9/10 times it's the PvE players that get screwed. Seen it waaaaaay too often.

You cannot effectively balance PvP without separating - I've yet to see it done on any game I've played effectively.

I'm still very optimistic but it's only because it says Morrowind. I've still got fanboy glasses on - I just hope I don't have to pull them off and smash them in a month.

I know I've posted some angry posts in the nerf nerf nerf threads but I do honestly feel for you Stamina users, especially nightblades.

For those that do leave - I hope they'll at least check back around September for them to overhaul again.

Tavore1138

My experience has been similar - I had sustain problems with template characters and new rolled low characters but have been waiting to see what happened when my real characters were copied.

Like the OP I main a stamblade running a DW/Bow build for PvE DPS. I was able to pull around 25h on the dummies self-buffed pre-Morrowind, more in trials with groups buffs.

Also like the OP I am not top tier, I have run vAA, vHR, working on vSO and not likely to complete vMA on this character although might well on one of my others if I take the time.

Gear is 5 Vicious Ophidian, 5 Hundings, 2 Velidreth - all jewels with damage at this point. CPs changed to up returns from heavy attacks etc.

My DPS on robust target dummy is down around 6-7k taking it back under the 20k and out of the range needed to get into vSO/vMOL groups... with shortened time on Caltrops the rotation has changed a little so I may be able to pull another 1-2k back again in time.

I weave heavy with rapid strikes so my sustain was tolerable for the first 75% of the tests but ran dry very quickly on execute with the increased costs of Killers' Blade and found I needed to weave in heavy attacks a lot more.

I could offset that with one or two pieces of jewelry changes but that is going to take another chunk of DPS away which is not going to add viability for trials and top end vet dungeons.

A brief guild run into the earlt stages of nHoF revealed the other concern - AOE has been a bit of a weakness for stanblades for a couple of patches now and now I run dry very fast even with VO proc'ing, the increased costs of my AOE abilities was just not sustainable for long enough to deal with trials trash and I found myself flailing around trying to sustain with heavy attacks while the magicka users were happily doing their aoe skills.

Overall I found the experience unrewarding and I did not feel it added any additional excitement or gameplay choices to compensate. ZOS basically just made playing my main boring... and being bored is not what makes me log in to a game...

argouru

grim_tactics wrote: »

Sadly, this is what happens when a company refuses to separate PvP and PvE and 9/10 times it's the PvE players that get screwed. Seen it waaaaaay too often.

You cannot effectively balance PvP without separating - I've yet to see it done on any game I've played effectively.

I'm still very optimistic but it's only because it says Morrowind. I've still got fanboy glasses on - I just hope I don't have to pull them off and smash them in a month.

I know I've posted some angry posts in the nerf nerf nerf threads but I do honestly feel for you Stamina users, especially nightblades.

For those that do leave - I hope they'll at least check back around September for them to overhaul again.

Can't they just tie the adjustments to the trigger that allows you to attack other players? There's surely an in-game trigger that takes you from not being able to attack over pcs to being able to do so. They have to have it tin order to allow dueling, so why not make that trigger the same one that turns on or off the adjustments outside of pve play?

actosh

They can. They did for example with ambush. It only stuns monsters but no players.