Why not add a recovery nerf to Battle Spirit?

Marto

If Zenimax's concern is infinite-resource builds in PVP... why not add a recovery nerf to Battle Spirit? Why not revert a lot of the changes done to cost of stamina, armors, etc... and add a new debuff to Battle Spirit?

That way, ZoS doesn't have to break their design philosophy by making abilities behave differently between PVE and PVP. Nor make two different CP trees.

Maybe make it a dynamic value, that changes so medium/light builds would not be as hurt by it. Maybe make it so you start getting hit with a 50% nerf to all recovery gained after, say, 1500.

I have no idea how the math of this would work out, but what do you guys think of this, at least as a concept?

NightbladeMechanics

Why not get rid of Battle Spirit?

Halve player damage, healing, and shielding tooltips. Halve PvE mob health pools. Tweak some other stuff as needed. Profit.

SodanTok

Feels like every day there is someone thinking this huge sustain patch is PVP related...
Yes ZoS is so stupid they wanted to nerf sustain in PVP and decided the best way is to nerf everyone so everyone is mad.

Turelus

Because they wanted it in PvE as well.

That's the answer, nothing fancy or special.

WhiteMage

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Why not get rid of Battle Spirit?

Halve player damage, healing, and shielding tooltips. Halve PvE mob health pools. Tweak some other stuff as needed. Profit.

Or just double player health pools. Same exact effect.

Personally though I think they'd need to be more than doubled.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Or cap the effect attributes have on shields/heals/damage at 25k for magicka/stamina and 35k for health, then remove battle spirit.

This would be a better way to do it because it would mimic the controls originally put in the game with softcaps. If you just slam a blanket damage nerf on everything, then you end up reducing the number of effective skills as people will only use the skills that hit the hardest. This method would instantly bring up underperforming skills as well as prevent over-performing ones from hitting so hard.

Marto

Yes, I understand you guys don't like the current implementation of battle spirit, but let's try to look at solutions that are plausible for Zenimax to introduce during the PTS.

ManDraKE

the resources nerf isn't just because PvP needs it, ZoS also stated that they want to change PvE resource magnament. Check the last ESO live when they talked about balance, and you will see that many of this changes are targeted to PvE, not just PvP.

Just because NPCs can complain in the forums, it dosn't mean that PvE is fine as it is.

NightbladeMechanics

WhiteMage wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Why not get rid of Battle Spirit?

Halve player damage, healing, and shielding tooltips. Halve PvE mob health pools. Tweak some other stuff as needed. Profit.

Or just double player health pools. Same exact effect.

Personally though I think they'd need to be more than doubled.

That works too! Man, health pools would be so massive then, compared to where we started at launch.

leepalmer95

People use regen in pvp?

Have you pvp'd in the last few months? why use regen when you have full damage heavy setups with perfect sustain.

Brrrofski

Because you can run like 1000 regen on some builds anyway.

Battle roar, dark deal, heavy attacks with points in tenacity, constitution... You don't need regen.

leepalmer95

Brrrofski wrote: »

Because you can run like 1000 regen on some builds anyway.

Battle roar, dark deal, heavy attacks with points in tenacity, constitution... You don't need regen.

1000? I was around 600 on my stam sorc and had the best sustain on any of my builds.

Literally 5 heavy, all damage, 0 regen.

Brrrofski

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Because you can run like 1000 regen on some builds anyway.

Battle roar, dark deal, heavy attacks with points in tenacity, constitution... You don't need regen.

1000? I was around 600 on my stam sorc and had the best sustain on any of my builds.

Literally 5 heavy, all damage, 0 regen.

Unfortunately I play Xbox EU as dc, those ad zergs are big, so I run around that so I can kite a bit more. That's on a dk, you can definitely go less on a stam sorc because of streak.

My point is, a recovery debuff wouldn't hurt most people because of things I mentioned as well as things like syrabane etc. There's a lot more ways to get resources back other than regen.

Doctordarkspawn

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Why not get rid of Battle Spirit?

Halve player damage, healing, and shielding tooltips. Halve PvE mob health pools. Tweak some other stuff as needed. Profit.

But that'd be nerfing PVE for the sake of PVP, something we dont need, and *** PVE fundementally in the process. Halving PVE mob health isn't gonna solve the rampant issues this will cause, sorry bud.

Doctordarkspawn

Turelus wrote: »

Because they wanted it in PvE as well.

That's the answer, nothing fancy or special.

And that's a stupid *** decision for something that not only wasn't a problem, but the alternative actually makes the game more boring.

The reason we hate ZOS so much is because we disagree with their direction.

visionality

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because they wanted it in PvE as well.

That's the answer, nothing fancy or special.

And that's a stupid *** decision for something that not only wasn't a problem, but the alternative actually makes the game more boring.

The reason we hate ZOS so much is because we disagree with their direction.

Double disagree, @Doctordarkspawn:
(1) Unliminited ressources in current PVE is the problem. If Zenimax would have wanted to fix PVP-regen, they would have had an easier way by disabling CPs in PVP or by adapting battle spirit. Just because NPCs don't flame on forums whereas PVPers do doesn't mean cancer builds don't exist in PVE.

(2) The reason why "we" (whoever "we" may be) hate ZOS so much is that "we" don't understand what their direction is. Or a beta, at that point. Or "we" just feel hating is easier than using constructive arguments and a civilized tone.

Ep1kMalware

Marto wrote: »

If Zenimax's concern is infinite-resource builds in PVP... why not add a recovery nerf to Battle Spirit? Why not revert a lot of the changes done to cost of stamina, armors, etc... and add a new debuff to Battle Spirit?

That way, ZoS doesn't have to break their design philosophy by making abilities behave differently between PVE and PVP. Nor make two different CP trees.

Maybe make it a dynamic value, that changes so medium/light builds would not be as hurt by it. Maybe make it so you start getting hit with a 50% nerf to all recovery gained after, say, 1500.

I have no idea how the math of this would work out, but what do you guys think of this, at least as a concept?

zos could do alot of things. They could tweak how skills work in pvp, they could do alot with battlespirit. But no, they *** refuse to put in ny *** effort. Instead we get massive reactionary nerfs every update bent toward pvp amd endimg up with little to no pve diversity. If you ever wondered why you need to roll a magsorc with bsw or necro in trials, this is pretty much why.

Ep1kMalware

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because they wanted it in PvE as well.

That's the answer, nothing fancy or special.

And that's a stupid *** decision for something that not only wasn't a problem, but the alternative actually makes the game more boring.

The reason we hate ZOS so much is because we disagree with their direction.

Pretty much. They could do sooo many things that would make this game one of a kind, andstead we have a model where zos literally forces us to spend weeks farming gear, setting up a toon, to play a certain way, because they took away all lf our choices. So we grind, and grind again, waiting for zenimax to force us into even less choices.

Because some reeturd in pvp can't burst down a harmless troll tank, or burst down an organized group from stealth because someone thought ahead and brought in a healer.

We hate zos because they twist our feedback into the words of encouragement they want to hear and do something unwanted while ignoring actual issues.

Ep1kMalware

visionality wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because they wanted it in PvE as well.

That's the answer, nothing fancy or special.

And that's a stupid *** decision for something that not only wasn't a problem, but the alternative actually makes the game more boring.

The reason we hate ZOS so much is because we disagree with their direction.

Double disagree, @Doctordarkspawn:
(1) Unliminited ressources in current PVE is the problem. If Zenimax would have wanted to fix PVP-regen, they would have had an easier way by disabling CPs in PVP or by adapting battle spirit. Just because NPCs don't flame on forums whereas PVPers do doesn't mean cancer builds don't exist in PVE.

(2) The reason why "we" (whoever "we" may be) hate ZOS so much is that "we" don't understand what their direction is. Or a beta, at that point. Or "we" just feel hating is easier than using constructive arguments and a civilized tone.

Unlimited resources in pve is not a problem. It lnly seems like it exists in organized groups that know how and when to support the team. ..unless you are wanting to be out of breath from running normal icp? Are you axtually going to suggest balancing resources around a 3m boss when we are expected to fight a 65m hp boss on a timer? Of course not, obviously it's pvp.

sneakymitchell

It requires skill and thinking. If u can manage with decent points in tenacity and roll doge and break free cost reduction then ur fine. But for me I still use recovery drinks and not use shuffle on stam DK.