I SUPPOSE ESO IS GOING THE WAY OF EVERY MMO HAS SINCE ULTIMA ONLINE

Moith

I started playing mmo'S when Ultima Online came out and there has been a trend on every single mmo that has came out since, Dark ages of Camelot, Duels of the Plainswalkers, Vanguard Saga of Hero's, Warhammer, Rift
These were all great games to play but over time and complaints after complaint and the fear of losing player base the classes get nerfed over and over because the GMs listen to some whiney ass that is mad and to lazy use the game mechanics as is and build something to play. But no they want instant gratification and have what other have worked to build right now. So the begins the homogenizing of the classes to make it easier for these pissy little complainers. I started this game during beta and have watched get nerfed over and over. When you were low level and went up against a high level you got your ass whipped like it should be. But now any level can go against any other level, and it just keeps getting worse with the nerfs. My point is every single great game that has come along has done the exact same thing and eventually dies out . I hate to say but ESO is heading down this same road.

raglau

All such games have a life cycle. In the beginning, the game is new and exciting and so the developer can court 'proper' gamers (for want of a better term) and make a profit from a loyal user base and a sub. These gamers like challenging games, and ESO was very tough upon first release, and all the more enjoyable for it. But any game of course loses its allure at some point and people move on, because we gamers thrive on new challenges and so will not hang about forever.

The game at this point enters its second stage, this is usually F2P/B2P and they need a high volume of players in order to turn a profit as they cannot rely on subs but must get a basic income from cash shop dross. This type of player is more casual and will probably have several F2P games on the go while they work out what they like. Churn is quite high.

The game then enters its third stage, which is P2W, this is to please the needs of a totally casual player base who want instant gratification. Churn is really high so at this point the game is in a race to the bottom scenario to get the last bit of revenue possible from the asset.

The final stage is where a handful of white knights are left and the game is a blatant P2W cash shop driven embarrassment. Think Rift etc.

In my view, as a beta player, ESO is past the middle point of stage 2. ESO has always been casual player targetted, but the blatant ease of content and removal of all challenge and progression signifies a shift in thinking at ZOS that I feel is them prepping the ground for stage 3.

Bouldercleave

Moith wrote: »

I started playing mmo'S when Ultima Online came out and there has been a trend on every single mmo that has came out since, Dark ages of Camelot, Duels of the Plainswalkers, Vanguard Saga of Hero's, Warhammer, Rift
These were all great games to play but over time and complaints after complaint and the fear of losing player base the classes get nerfed over and over because the GMs listen to some whiney ass that is mad and to lazy use the game mechanics as is and build something to play. But no they want instant gratification and have what other have worked to build right now. So the begins the homogenizing of the classes to make it easier for these pissy little complainers. I started this game during beta and have watched get nerfed over and over. When you were low level and went up against a high level you got your ass whipped like it should be. But now any level can go against any other level, and it just keeps getting worse with the nerfs. My point is every single great game that has come along has done the exact same thing and eventually dies out . I hate to say but ESO is heading down this same road.

It's because businesses go down a "money" path. They chase revenue as all businesses do. They appeal to the greater masses, not the minority loyalists, because it's the better business model.

If you were in business, you would do the same thing - especially THIS industry. The percentage of true loyal customers is all but non existent in the MMO Genre. No matter how good you are doing, the SECOND a new and amazing game comes out, your client base simply disappears.

You have to get your $$$ while you can to appease the shareholders and investors. I'm not defending them nor justifying some of their decisions that I agree are bad. I'm saying that they are presenting you this product to make you give them your money - not because they love or care about you.

Shad0wfire99

Wat? And also, yes.

Hazethemadman

Solution:

Enjoy the game until it gets to its low point, then move on to the next big MMO. Always worked for me.

Cadbury

Everything Ends Eventually

Bouldercleave

Hazethemadman wrote: »

Solution:

Enjoy the game until it gets to its low point, then move on to the next big MMO. Always worked for me.

BINGO!

However, reason and logic will NOT be tolerated here!

max_only

What is up with these all caps topics today?

Cadbury

max_only wrote: »

What is up with these all caps topics today?

It's the weekend. Some wait till then to post their troll topics because there's a good chance they'll stay open till Monday.

raglau

Hazethemadman wrote: »

Solution:

Enjoy the game until it gets to its low point, then move on to the next big MMO. Always worked for me.

Pretty much this.

ESO has always been a great idea but implemented in a rather mediocre way, and badly managed by ZOS. It is only tolerated because it is the only Elder Scrolls game in town right now.

Once a new single player TES game appears, ESO will be history. Even the arrival of Witcher 3 signalled a ton of people leaving ESO. It does scratch that fantasy game itch, but not in a particularly satisfying or long-lasting way.

TalonKnight

They appeal to the greater masses, not the minority loyalists, because it's the better business model.

The greater masses you say.... The greater masses don't respond on the forums, they normally just visit the forums.

Its you minority loyalists that they respond to, cause you all are the 1s that continually talk about the game....

Not the casuals....

Bouldercleave

TalonKnight wrote: »

They appeal to the greater masses, not the minority loyalists, because it's the better business model.

The greater masses you say.... The greater masses don't respond on the forums, they normally just visit the forums.

Its you minority loyalists that they respond to, cause you all are the 1s that continually talk about the game....

Not the casuals....

Just because the majority doesn't respond on the forums doesn't mean that they are not catering to them. Believe it or not, the forums is not the only place that ZOS gets their data and client information. They prove that everyday by their silence here.

Sylidor

Moith wrote: »

I started playing mmo'S when Ultima Online came out and there has been a trend on every single mmo that has came out since, Dark ages of Camelot, Duels of the Plainswalkers, Vanguard Saga of Hero's, Warhammer, Rift
These were all great games to play but over time and complaints after complaint and the fear of losing player base the classes get nerfed over and over because the GMs listen to some whiney ass that is mad and to lazy use the game mechanics as is and build something to play. But no they want instant gratification and have what other have worked to build right now. So the begins the homogenizing of the classes to make it easier for these pissy little complainers. I started this game during beta and have watched get nerfed over and over. When you were low level and went up against a high level you got your ass whipped like it should be. But now any level can go against any other level, and it just keeps getting worse with the nerfs. My point is every single great game that has come along has done the exact same thing and eventually dies out . I hate to say but ESO is heading down this same road.

#DoshiaNeverForget

TalonKnight

Bouldercleave wrote: »

TalonKnight wrote: »

They appeal to the greater masses, not the minority loyalists, because it's the better business model.

The greater masses you say.... The greater masses don't respond on the forums, they normally just visit the forums.

Its you minority loyalists that they respond to, cause you all are the 1s that continually talk about the game....

Not the casuals....

Just because the majority doesn't respond on the forums doesn't mean that they are not catering to them. Believe it or not, the forums is not the only place that ZOS gets their data and client information. They prove that everyday by their silence here.

No offense bro but are you just lookin for another star on your forum name, out of the 11 responses on this topic you have 3 of them.... 3! Maybe you high star guys would do better to not respond to every little comment on the forums so that zos dosnt have to sift through a crap ton of nothing....

Browiseth

i could easily argue that you're whiny and impatient and want instant gratification from the game being too easy through characters and classes being too powerful

but in order for that argument to succeed, an element of self awareness would need to exist in this community that just isn't there

Bouldercleave

TalonKnight wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

TalonKnight wrote: »

They appeal to the greater masses, not the minority loyalists, because it's the better business model.

The greater masses you say.... The greater masses don't respond on the forums, they normally just visit the forums.

Its you minority loyalists that they respond to, cause you all are the 1s that continually talk about the game....

Not the casuals....

Just because the majority doesn't respond on the forums doesn't mean that they are not catering to them. Believe it or not, the forums is not the only place that ZOS gets their data and client information. They prove that everyday by their silence here.

No offense bro but are you just lookin for another star on your forum name, out of the 11 responses on this topic you have 3 of them.... 3! Maybe you high star guys would do better to not respond to every little comment on the forums so that zos dosnt have to sift through a crap ton of nothing....

No offense bro, but I was responding to a specific quote you replied to from my post.

I'm sorry that I'm more active on the forums than you and have more stars than you. If you want my forum stars, buy all means you can have them, but if you don't want me to post anything - don't quote me.

Doctordarkspawn

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Moith wrote: »

I started playing mmo'S when Ultima Online came out and there has been a trend on every single mmo that has came out since, Dark ages of Camelot, Duels of the Plainswalkers, Vanguard Saga of Hero's, Warhammer, Rift
These were all great games to play but over time and complaints after complaint and the fear of losing player base the classes get nerfed over and over because the GMs listen to some whiney ass that is mad and to lazy use the game mechanics as is and build something to play. But no they want instant gratification and have what other have worked to build right now. So the begins the homogenizing of the classes to make it easier for these pissy little complainers. I started this game during beta and have watched get nerfed over and over. When you were low level and went up against a high level you got your ass whipped like it should be. But now any level can go against any other level, and it just keeps getting worse with the nerfs. My point is every single great game that has come along has done the exact same thing and eventually dies out . I hate to say but ESO is heading down this same road.

It's because businesses go down a "money" path. They chase revenue as all businesses do. They appeal to the greater masses, not the minority loyalists, because it's the better business model.

If you were in business, you would do the same thing - especially THIS industry. The percentage of true loyal customers is all but non existent in the MMO Genre. No matter how good you are doing, the SECOND a new and amazing game comes out, your client base simply disappears.

You have to get your $$$ while you can to appease the shareholders and investors. I'm not defending them nor justifying some of their decisions that I agree are bad. I'm saying that they are presenting you this product to make you give them your money - not because they love or care about you.

Exept you can do it, without being stupid.

Many have, many will again. But many companies ruin their own product because "I dont want Money, I want MONEY!" They think being mildly successfull or profiting without going to the extreme is abject failure, and that is the primary problem here.

Part of this is the shareholders, yes, but part of it is also the -marketing- guys. I dont particularly know how bad it is nowadays, but did you know a few years ago, many of the marketing and advisors thereof came from packeged goods, and found jobs all along the industry?

Alchemical

People still play older MMOs like the original Everquest. Asheron's Call just closed THIS YEAR after launching in 1999, it almost lived 20 years and yet most people have never heard of it. The fan base even tried to buy the IP so they could keep it online. Final Fantasy 11 still gets expansion packs despite the fact it was made obsolete by another MMO in the same franchise. There are dedicated players who still play the original Guild Wars. There's also the fact people have been playing Runescape and Maple Story since before high-speed internet was even a thing.

You can't really gauge the lifetime of an MMO easily. They all depend on the player base and how dedicated they are to it. Even if a bunch of people get mad and ragequit over changes they don't like, as long as the core remains the game won't go anywhere. TES has a pretty fanatical core fanbase, I think many of them choose to play ESO despite its many, many, MANY faults simply because it is Elder Scrolls.

The atmosphere and community is 90% of the reason to play an MMO, because if they cared about technical mechanics there are better games out there. I got sick of Warcraft after 10 years and I came here not because it's 'good' but because 'I really liked Daggerfall and Morrowind'.

Bouldercleave

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Moith wrote: »

I started playing mmo'S when Ultima Online came out and there has been a trend on every single mmo that has came out since, Dark ages of Camelot, Duels of the Plainswalkers, Vanguard Saga of Hero's, Warhammer, Rift
These were all great games to play but over time and complaints after complaint and the fear of losing player base the classes get nerfed over and over because the GMs listen to some whiney ass that is mad and to lazy use the game mechanics as is and build something to play. But no they want instant gratification and have what other have worked to build right now. So the begins the homogenizing of the classes to make it easier for these pissy little complainers. I started this game during beta and have watched get nerfed over and over. When you were low level and went up against a high level you got your ass whipped like it should be. But now any level can go against any other level, and it just keeps getting worse with the nerfs. My point is every single great game that has come along has done the exact same thing and eventually dies out . I hate to say but ESO is heading down this same road.

It's because businesses go down a "money" path. They chase revenue as all businesses do. They appeal to the greater masses, not the minority loyalists, because it's the better business model.

If you were in business, you would do the same thing - especially THIS industry. The percentage of true loyal customers is all but non existent in the MMO Genre. No matter how good you are doing, the SECOND a new and amazing game comes out, your client base simply disappears.

You have to get your $$$ while you can to appease the shareholders and investors. I'm not defending them nor justifying some of their decisions that I agree are bad. I'm saying that they are presenting you this product to make you give them your money - not because they love or care about you.

Exept you can do it, without being stupid.

Many have, many will again. But many companies ruin their own product because "I dont want Money, I want MONEY!" They think being mildly successfull or profiting without going to the extreme is abject failure, and that is the primary problem here.

Part of this is the shareholders, yes, but part of it is also the -marketing- guys. I dont particularly know how bad it is nowadays, but did you know a few years ago, many of the marketing and advisors thereof came from packeged goods, and found jobs all along the industry?

That's the problem with almost ALL corporate business models. It's never enough. The money is never enough. Mild success is never enough. It's been that way in most business models for DECADES.

Do you think EXXON / Mobil is happy with 13.6 billion in revenue? No. They want MORE!
Do you think Samsung is happy selling 38% (not a real number, just an example) of all smartphones on the planet? No. They want MORE!

Greed is the problem. Consumers are 1s and 0s to corporations. Best of luck trying to change that. I said before, I'm not defending ZOS or their decisions. I just try and shed some reality on people.

Korah_Eaglecry

And the rage and anger over the changes gives way to Doom Threads.......

Rouven

Cadbury wrote: »

Everything Ends Eventually

Even thE Earth.

So I just learned that Ultima Online is finally P2W - I waited long enough, should install and win over the weekend then. Thanks

Mojmir

Funny you mention UO,Matt was there during the demise, familiar?