Healer Role Insight & Morrowind Update.

IronCrystal

Can other healers heal vet trials? Of course.

Is it easy to learn on as a first trial healer? Not all, certainly not DK and NB healers. Sorcs have to learn how to control pets carefully and are not viable in all fights.

Templar is relatively easy to learn and is recommended as a healing class for people new to vet trials.

Haven't done a lot of Warden other than playing on PTS.

What healer is BIS? That's a different topic. One I haven't done any testing on other than a little bit of PTS.

exeeter702

Sunah wrote: »

Ok guys as a trials healer who has a Templar and warden geared out let me give my input. After reading through this section there are many things I agree with but also strongly disagree with.

First off ANY class CAN heal. Yes. Its true. However... in a TRIALS environment without a burst heal such as BoL or Fungal whatever the hell its called on Wardens (which I believe is much better because it heals 6 allies instead of 1 1/2) you are will have a very hard time. I say this only because no one is perfect, there will be some points in every encounter where someone is bound to get hit by something that a healing springs or Mutagen or whatever cannot heal quick enough.

Regards to whoever is the better healer? **Again we are talking trials environment** When I compare between Templar/Warden (because its honestly between these 2) I believe Templars still win (sadly) mainly because when it comes to burst healing BoL its enough to cover for the "oh crap" moments. I say this because not everyone in the raid "should" be getting hit by avoidable crap, IF it does happen this is now not an issue for a healer... Its a raid group issue. We can only heal so much stupid.
Also shards is a much and I mean MUCH better ability for group sustain. I say this because targeting is MUCH easier, also the fly time is about 14541591 times faster than the old blue balls that I have to use on my Warden. Also if a tank needs it, the blue balls have to travel SLOWLY through the whole raid and hopefully someone in the group doesn't get the old twitching fingers and pops it or else we gotta toss a few more while still praying no one pops it. Doing this kills our magicka and delays us from doing other things like keeping drain up or heals on other people..... TL:DR Shards > Blue Balls.
Another thing with Templars is the ability to dispel very very very very very easily. Helps quite a bit.
Nova > Sleet storm. Because nova reduces damage done by the enemies in the radius while storm reduces damage taken for all players in the radius. Sleet does absolutely NOTHING for healers and range dps unless everyone is stacked.

exeeter702 wrote: »

No educated healers would ever use bol as a sticking point for end game pve healing.

Sorry to say this man, but back to my first point... Unless you have a extremely solid ass group that can avoid everything than BoL or that Warden fungal heal isn't needed. SADLY this will never happen. I don't care about how good you "claim" your guild is. *** is going to happen and burst healing WILL be needed. You can only achieve this through a Warden or Templar, Maybeeee a sorc but meh.

Im inclined to believe you dont know very much about healing outside of templar.

Between appropriate hot uptime and combat prayer, bol is largley irrelevant.

And no this is between far more than just warden or templar. Read through the thread and actually make a case for why templars largely trump over the other healers with points that have not already been rebuked.

Your sleet storm argument is incredibly weak and demonstrates your inability to see the actual application and parralells of each ultimate. Group wide mitigation ultimates are generally used in specific times, and usually accompany stacking for springs. The benefit to wardens sleet storm and nbs veil is that it stacks with nova. Nova has a broader reach in that it debuffs the targets within, so any outgoing damage is damage mitigated regardless of player location. Thus veil and sleet synergyze very well with nova and likewise fufill a different scenario on there own, a scenario that has the raid group stacked anyways...

Having cleared vhof with with both nb / dk heal duo and warden / nb duo. Both in beta and on live, it is largely in the realm viability beyond sacrificing and making concessions just to "make it work" to not run a templar in the healing role.

Sakiri

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

No, main reason I hear for Templars > all is "BoL".

That's it.

No educated healers would ever use bol as a sticking point for end game pve healing.

Maybe not, but lack of BoL has gotten healers with me chewed out as inferior.

Sunah

exeeter702 wrote: »

Im inclined to believe you dont know very much about healing outside of templar.

Between appropriate hot uptime and combat prayer, bol is largley irrelevant.

And no this is between far more than just warden or templar. Read through the thread and actually make a case for why templars largely trump over the other healers with points that have not already been rebuked.

Your sleet storm argument is incredibly weak and demonstrates your inability to see the actual application and parralells of each ultimate. Group wide mitigation ultimates are generally used in specific times, and usually accompany stacking for springs. The benefit to wardens sleet storm and nbs veil is that it stacks with nova. Nova has a broader reach in that it debuffs the targets within, so any outgoing damage is damage mitigated regardless of player location. Thus veil and sleet synergyze very well with nova and likewise fufill a different scenario on there own, a scenario that has the raid group stacked anyways...

Having cleared vhof with with both nb / dk heal duo and warden / nb duo. Both in beta and on live, it is largely in the realm viability beyond sacrificing and making concessions just to "make it work" to not run a templar in the healing role.

Its funny how you instead of actually trying to understand my point of view you just go straight for the attack and undermine every little thing I post. IF you actually read what I type you would see where I did in fact make a valid case for everything I said. Its not like I just said TEMPLAR BEST, ALL OTHERS SUCK. HURR DURR.

Also if you did read, which I now know you didn't. You would see I talked about healing with my Warden, which you know... is not a Templar. Which if I am not mistaken.. is the 1st god damn sentence in my god damn post. So you didn't even get 11 words into my post before quoting and bashing.. shame on you.

exeeter702

Sunah wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Im inclined to believe you dont know very much about healing outside of templar.

Between appropriate hot uptime and combat prayer, bol is largley irrelevant.

And no this is between far more than just warden or templar. Read through the thread and actually make a case for why templars largely trump over the other healers with points that have not already been rebuked.

Your sleet storm argument is incredibly weak and demonstrates your inability to see the actual application and parralells of each ultimate. Group wide mitigation ultimates are generally used in specific times, and usually accompany stacking for springs. The benefit to wardens sleet storm and nbs veil is that it stacks with nova. Nova has a broader reach in that it debuffs the targets within, so any outgoing damage is damage mitigated regardless of player location. Thus veil and sleet synergyze very well with nova and likewise fufill a different scenario on there own, a scenario that has the raid group stacked anyways...

Having cleared vhof with with both nb / dk heal duo and warden / nb duo. Both in beta and on live, it is largely in the realm viability beyond sacrificing and making concessions just to "make it work" to not run a templar in the healing role.

Its funny how you instead of actually trying to understand my point of view you just go straight for the attack and undermine every little thing I post. IF you actually read what I type you would see where I did in fact make a valid case for everything I said. Its not like I just said TEMPLAR BEST, ALL OTHERS SUCK. HURR DURR.

Also if you did read, which I now know you didn't. You would see I talked about healing with my Warden, which you know... is not a Templar. Which if I am not mistaken.. is the 1st god damn sentence in my god damn post. So you didn't even get 11 words into my post before quoting and bashing.. shame on you.

I read everything, you mentioned nothing of non templar healers outside of exclusivley comparing to warden as if the warden is the only other healer, this entire thread is in regards to the healing role and not how the other classes stack up to Templars in said role.

My comment was not meant as an aggression. Unless you took offense to my statement suggesting you dont know how other healers perform in the role.

Sunah

exeeter702 wrote: »

[I read everything, you mentioned nothing of non templar healers outside of exclusivley comparing to warden as if the warden is the only other healer, this entire thread is in regards to the healing role and not how the other classes stack up to Templars in said role.

My comment was not meant as an aggression. Unless you took offense to my statement suggesting you dont know how other healers perform in the role.

Well in my 3rd paragraph I did note that I was comparing the 2 classes because it was in my "opinion" again... opinion, that Templar/Warden healers are better. Templars because of the dispelling and targetable sustain "shards" and wardens for better burst and the 10% regen buff and max stats and just over all utility.

I don't want to say I took complete offense to this post, just slightly butt hurt. Ill be mature about this and say im sorry for snapping at you good sir. All of your points are valid in a sense of course few things go against my opinion which im sure some of my points do the same. There will probably be no middle ground we can reach here to be honest haha.

exeeter702

Sunah wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

[I read everything, you mentioned nothing of non templar healers outside of exclusivley comparing to warden as if the warden is the only other healer, this entire thread is in regards to the healing role and not how the other classes stack up to Templars in said role.

My comment was not meant as an aggression. Unless you took offense to my statement suggesting you dont know how other healers perform in the role.

Well in my 3rd paragraph I did note that I was comparing the 2 classes because it was in my "opinion" again... opinion, that Templar/Warden healers are better. Templars because of the dispelling and targetable sustain "shards" and wardens for better burst and the 10% regen buff and max stats and just over all utility.

I don't want to say I took complete offense to this post, just slightly butt hurt. Ill be mature about this and say im sorry for snapping at you good sir. All of your points are valid in a sense of course few things go against my opinion which im sure some of my points do the same. There will probably be no middle ground we can reach here to be honest haha.

For sure. It is a very heated subject for many people, myself included.

Sunah

How about this. In the end if it works for your guild and group comp. Do whatever the hell you feel like doing. I believe as long as you are providing the maximum amount of debuffs/buffs/utility/damage while keeping heals up then you must be doing something right in a sense.

apostate9

Sunah wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Im inclined to believe you dont know very much about healing outside of templar.

Between appropriate hot uptime and combat prayer, bol is largley irrelevant.

And no this is between far more than just warden or templar. Read through the thread and actually make a case for why templars largely trump over the other healers with points that have not already been rebuked.

Your sleet storm argument is incredibly weak and demonstrates your inability to see the actual application and parralells of each ultimate. Group wide mitigation ultimates are generally used in specific times, and usually accompany stacking for springs. The benefit to wardens sleet storm and nbs veil is that it stacks with nova. Nova has a broader reach in that it debuffs the targets within, so any outgoing damage is damage mitigated regardless of player location. Thus veil and sleet synergyze very well with nova and likewise fufill a different scenario on there own, a scenario that has the raid group stacked anyways...

Having cleared vhof with with both nb / dk heal duo and warden / nb duo. Both in beta and on live, it is largely in the realm viability beyond sacrificing and making concessions just to "make it work" to not run a templar in the healing role.

Its funny how you instead of actually trying to understand my point of view you just go straight for the attack and undermine every little thing I post. IF you actually read what I type you would see where I did in fact make a valid case for everything I said. Its not like I just said TEMPLAR BEST, ALL OTHERS SUCK. HURR DURR.

Also if you did read, which I now know you didn't. You would see I talked about healing with my Warden, which you know... is not a Templar. Which if I am not mistaken.. is the 1st god damn sentence in my god damn post. So you didn't even get 11 words into my post before quoting and bashing.. shame on you.

You also mentioned "the fungal whatever it is" being better than BOL (which it is), then concluded templars were still superior...because BOL. Not trying to flame you here sir/madam but it doesn't seem like you are thinking your own arguments all the way through.

Inarre

I am really enjoying this thread. My first character was a sorc healer, which i got bashed on a bit. In my bashers defense, it was an incredibly challenging concept for a newbie and one that i researched very little. (Not to mention this was before the history making patch notes that gave classes other than templar viable healing options) After my first few dungeons i made my templar healer (and i still main and enjoy her today) but it is heartening to see other peoples improved perspective of each classes viable healing roles. I like that all classes now seem to have their own "niche" specialties that synergise well with other classes skills.