What is the point of hvy attacks vs off balance if everything is immune to knockdown?

WalksonGraves

So you block a heavy and set the enemy off balance allowing a brief window where a heavy will knock them down.

You know unless it's not a trash mob, then this entire core mechanic vanishes. Does nothing to bosses or players because... tanks having something significant to do in a fight would be too crazy?

paulsimonps

This is why off balance is important:

LMar

Off balance makes enemies take more damage even if they don't get knocked down so having someone put your enemies off balance increases the whole group's damage against them

WalksonGraves

I knew I should have put a disclaimer that I'm aware of the damage bonus cp perk, that wasn't it's primary design.

Oompuh

Exploiter - Increases all damage done to off balanced enemies by 10%



Tell me more about how useless off balance is. Just like Swarm Mother, it is actually useful.

Avran_Sylt

Aren't most Bosses/Trial mobs immune to the off-balance debuff though? I've never actually watched to see if it's being applied to them.

WalksonGraves

I'm talking about the knock down mechanic specifically.

WalksonGraves

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Aren't most Bosses/Trial mobs immune to the off-balance debuff though? I've never actually watched to see if it's being applied to them.

Nope, I run mirage and tactician and everything gets put off balance.

Izaki

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

Izaki

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Aren't most Bosses/Trial mobs immune to the off-balance debuff though? I've never actually watched to see if it's being applied to them.

No only the Storm Atronach and the Foundation Stone Atronach in AA (maybe Ra-Kotu in HRC???) are immune to the off-balance effect. All the other bosses can be set off-balance.

WalksonGraves

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

Oompuh

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Aren't most Bosses/Trial mobs immune to the off-balance debuff though? I've never actually watched to see if it's being applied to them.

Nope, using blockade of storms all enemies become off balanced but do not actually get dizzy and fall down, allowing a straight 10% buff and making it a very useful mechanism

WalksonGraves

Oompuh wrote: »

Exploiter - Increases all damage done to off balanced enemies by 10%



Tell me more about how useless off balance is. Just like Swarm Mother, it is actually useful.

You might want to brush up on your reading skills. I'm fully aware of exploiter that's why I'm running tactician, mirage and glorious defender.

As I said before THE KNOCKDOWN MECHANIC is the topic.

Fyi swarm mother is only good for trash mob clearing so if you struggle with that I guess it's bis for you.

Izaki

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

WalksonGraves

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

Oompuh

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Exploiter - Increases all damage done to off balanced enemies by 10%



Tell me more about how useless off balance is. Just like Swarm Mother, it is actually useful.

You might want to brush up on your reading skills. I'm fully aware of exploiter that's why I'm running tactician, mirage and glorious defender.

As I said before THE KNOCKDOWN MECHANIC is the topic.

Fyi swarm mother is only good for trash mob clearing so if you struggle with that I guess it's bis for you.

You're right. When a giant yokudan warrior swings his mighty heavy attack at my tiny wooden shield, he should fall over like a wet noodle while I beat on him.... because that wolf I fought in the forest does.

Izaki

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

So because tanks aren't meant to deal damage and that to them the off-balance effect is useless you ask for bosses to be able to get knocked down?

Attackfrog

Knockdown mechanic is useless in bosses.

Oompuh

Attackfrog wrote: »

Knockdown mechanic is useless in bosses.

As it should be. Bosses have 90m health and the strength of demigods. How is it reasonable that a mere cat's sword can make them fall to their knees and lay on the floor like a fish out of water?

WalksonGraves

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

So because tanks aren't meant to deal damage and that to them the off-balance effect is useless you ask for bosses to be able to get knocked down?

No, I'm saying why did zos introduce this mechanic to not use it.

They teach you how to block like this and it serves no purpose in the actual game.
Not the putting off balance effect, the hitting the off balance with heavy part of it.

You don't have much reason to retaliate after a heavy other than getting back stam.

You should be able to knock down all humanoids.

paulsimonps

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

So because tanks aren't meant to deal damage and that to them the off-balance effect is useless you ask for bosses to be able to get knocked down?

No, I'm saying why did zos introduce this mechanic to not use it.

They teach you how to block like this and it serves no purpose in the actual game.
Not the putting off balance effect, the hitting the off balance with heavy part of it.

You don't have much reason to retaliate after a heavy other than getting back stam.

You should be able to knock down all humanoids.

I don't think a 4 meter tall Stone Warrior can be counted as "humanoid". Also not all bosses are Humanoids, see the atronoachs, the mantikora, Ozarah, the SO Troll and Rakkath , and many many more in dungeons. But yea it would make no sense to knock these guys down, they are huge things, especially something like the mantikora, and the warrior and serpent are large things as well as mentioned. The extra damage from off-balance does not only apply on a tank and while many don't use fully charge heavy attacks, weaving with Fire staffs count as heavy attacks so it will increase damage dealt there as well as the previously mentioned CP perk for off-balance.

Vaoh

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

So because tanks aren't meant to deal damage and that to them the off-balance effect is useless you ask for bosses to be able to get knocked down?

No, I'm saying why did zos introduce this mechanic to not use it.

They teach you how to block like this and it serves no purpose in the actual game.
Not the putting off balance effect, the hitting the off balance with heavy part of it.

You don't have much reason to retaliate after a heavy other than getting back stam.

You should be able to knock down all humanoids.

I would quit PvE if ZOS purposely let a skill like Stonefist knock down bosses like The Warrior. It'd be worse if a Heavy Attack could do it after a tank blocks that flurry attack of his.

The reason you can't CC tough bosses is because the game would become extremely easy even when fighting trial bosses.

Off Balance is a debuff more than anything.

WalksonGraves

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

So because tanks aren't meant to deal damage and that to them the off-balance effect is useless you ask for bosses to be able to get knocked down?

No, I'm saying why did zos introduce this mechanic to not use it.

They teach you how to block like this and it serves no purpose in the actual game.
Not the putting off balance effect, the hitting the off balance with heavy part of it.

You don't have much reason to retaliate after a heavy other than getting back stam.

You should be able to knock down all humanoids.

I don't think a 4 meter tall Stone Warrior can be counted as "humanoid". Also not all bosses are Humanoids, see the atronoachs, the mantikora, Ozarah, the SO Troll and Rakkath , and many many more in dungeons. But yea it would make no sense to knock these guys down, they are huge things, especially something like the mantikora, and the warrior and serpent are large things as well as mentioned. The extra damage from off-balance does not only apply on a tank and while many don't use fully charge heavy attacks, weaving with Fire staffs count as heavy attacks so it will increase damage dealt there as well as the previously mentioned CP perk for off-balance.

That's why I said humanoid, obviously leg sweeping dragons makes no sense.

paulsimonps

WalksonGraves wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

So because tanks aren't meant to deal damage and that to them the off-balance effect is useless you ask for bosses to be able to get knocked down?

No, I'm saying why did zos introduce this mechanic to not use it.

They teach you how to block like this and it serves no purpose in the actual game.
Not the putting off balance effect, the hitting the off balance with heavy part of it.

You don't have much reason to retaliate after a heavy other than getting back stam.

You should be able to knock down all humanoids.

I don't think a 4 meter tall Stone Warrior can be counted as "humanoid". Also not all bosses are Humanoids, see the atronoachs, the mantikora, Ozarah, the SO Troll and Rakkath , and many many more in dungeons. But yea it would make no sense to knock these guys down, they are huge things, especially something like the mantikora, and the warrior and serpent are large things as well as mentioned. The extra damage from off-balance does not only apply on a tank and while many don't use fully charge heavy attacks, weaving with Fire staffs count as heavy attacks so it will increase damage dealt there as well as the previously mentioned CP perk for off-balance.

That's why I said humanoid, obviously leg sweeping dragons makes no sense.

And I said that something like the Warrior, Serpent and Mage really can't count for a knock down even if they look humanoid cause something of that size really can't count as humanoid. And also it would make them stop attacking us while they stood back up, knocking bosses down during key mechanics would be just as bad as when Meridia’s Blessed Armor made boss mechanics miss players cause of the Blind effect. With CC immunity lasting 10s it would make thing SO FRICKING EASY. Lets just have the tank knock the boss down every few seconds and wail at him while he is down. As well knocking bosses down will use up the off-balance and actually lower DPS on the boss. It would make things worse not better. It would also look really really stupid.

WalksonGraves

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

The knock down mechanic is just a bonus. All fully charged heavy attacks deal 40% more damage to off-balance enemies. That's the primary function of off-balance, not the knock down.

40% more hvy damage on a tank is meaningless, knockdown would actually accomplish something.

How is 40% more damage on a heavy attack meaningless?

Have you seen a tanks damage output? I do heavy attacks for the 3k stam, not the 3k damage. No one is going to notice me doing 1200 dmg.

So because tanks aren't meant to deal damage and that to them the off-balance effect is useless you ask for bosses to be able to get knocked down?

No, I'm saying why did zos introduce this mechanic to not use it.

They teach you how to block like this and it serves no purpose in the actual game.
Not the putting off balance effect, the hitting the off balance with heavy part of it.

You don't have much reason to retaliate after a heavy other than getting back stam.

You should be able to knock down all humanoids.

I don't think a 4 meter tall Stone Warrior can be counted as "humanoid". Also not all bosses are Humanoids, see the atronoachs, the mantikora, Ozarah, the SO Troll and Rakkath , and many many more in dungeons. But yea it would make no sense to knock these guys down, they are huge things, especially something like the mantikora, and the warrior and serpent are large things as well as mentioned. The extra damage from off-balance does not only apply on a tank and while many don't use fully charge heavy attacks, weaving with Fire staffs count as heavy attacks so it will increase damage dealt there as well as the previously mentioned CP perk for off-balance.

That's why I said humanoid, obviously leg sweeping dragons makes no sense.

And I said that something like the Warrior, Serpent and Mage really can't count for a knock down even if they look humanoid cause something of that size really can't count as humanoid. And also it would make them stop attacking us while they stood back up, knocking bosses down during key mechanics would be just as bad as when Meridia’s Blessed Armor made boss mechanics miss players cause of the Blind effect. With CC immunity lasting 10s it would make thing SO FRICKING EASY. Lets just have the tank knock the boss down every few seconds and wail at him while he is down. As well knocking bosses down will use up the off-balance and actually lower DPS on the boss. It would make things worse not better. It would also look really really stupid.

The knockdown window is specifically during the recoil from a blocked heavy attack occurs, it wouldn't be spammable.

Knocking a boss down for a couple of seconds every time it uses a heavy attack is hardly the same as blinding the boss 100% of the time.

No one mentioned any bosses by name, humanoid implies human size.

firedrgn

Um with the DK 40% and off Ballance is 40% and the CP is another 10%. Somehow I. Guessing you don't get 90% ?

Please advise. Thanks.