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ZOS, Pls buff Sorc Shields

  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    waitwhat wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    Destyran wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Shields are a weird subject nowdays.

    Allow bad players to survive by literally spamming them for several minutes which is also annoying.
    Stacking allows anyone you don't actually kill to get back to full hp, also annoying.

    The same is true for dodgeroll. Or blocking. Any bad player can just go full defense until reinforcements arrive and dish out an ult.
    Vigor and Dragon Blood are just as strong as shields if used correctly. Shields eat all damage and CC and status effects, whereas dodge avoids those and even breaks roots and is unaffected by snares, on top of granting Expedition with a bow. And don't get me started on Healing Ward flying off to an ally.
    In the end, absurd healing and the burst meta is what's plagueing Cyro, alongside zergs, of course.

    As for me, I'm smiling when I look at those "nerf shields" threads, knowing how easily two damage builds dps them down. While that Nightblade over there dodges every. single. Frag from multiple opponents. Sure....

    The part about dodge roll does not comport with reality. The consecutive use penalty is brutal, especially for stam classes that have to balance dodge rolling with their abilities, and that don't have Dark Exchange.

    Also, please bear in mind that dodge roll only gets less expensive in medium armor, which no one in their right mind wears in Cyrodiil.

    People whom wanna dodge roll do... or stamNB insta gibbers... (that's about it tho...)

    About the shields supposedly being a reaction to damage: that works great and all except the 10k power lash, 10k incap, 10k barrage, 10k frag.

    It would be cool not to die immediately in light armor with no ward, but it just doesn't work that way.

    Edit: I dare you to take on my 110k tool tip soul assault with a LA and no ward...lmfao

    you are telling me? You are getting hit for 10k power lashes and frags though your sheilds?

    I think he's saying that those abilities hit for those amounts in light armor without shields, thus causing a theoretical him to die instantly. Of course that theoretical him could solve that problem by wearing heavy armor like everyone else, and by putting more points/glyphs into health, since PvP shouldn't be about min/maxing damage, but should be about thinking situationally.

    Lol that theoretical me is pointing out how absurd the concept of using Wards AFTER being attacked - as in, reactionary.

    That's what's that's about

    If you survive the initial burst, which you can against most gankers if you're in heavy with high resistances and points in Hardy/Elemental Defender, then wards would serve the same function as Breath of Life for templars: They give you time to recover from the hit. Indeed, they would overperform Breath of Life in this case, because their efficiency cannot be reduced as that of Breath of Life would via Major Defile.

    No they wouldn't. far from it.:
    BoL will take you out of execute range, shields don't - so you still take high hits from executes.
    BOL can be buffed with major mending - direct opposite to Major defile. Shields can't.
    BoL can crit-heal. You can never crit-shield
    BoL heals the mitigated damage taken - which means more dmg needs to be done to counter.. Shields take the full dmg.
    And after all that, the shielded player still needs to heal up too....

    I mean yesterday I was spamming mages wrath on a low health magplar. he dropped down to between 5 and 10% health and in the split-second between one of my casts and the next he was instantly up to full health. This was with 3-4 people beating on him at the same time. There is no way you can tell me that sorc shields are this strong..

    Fair points well made, but even so it comes out a wash.
    1. You won't take crit damage from those executes with a shield.
    2. Perhaps shields can't be buffed, but the point stands that one cannot defub them either.
    3. You can crit-shield. They shield you from crits whereas BoL doesn't.
    4. Even more damage needs to be done to counter shields, as they essentially extend your health bar with 100% crit resist. Rather than burst the templar's health down, I now need to burst your shield down--which won't take full damage because it doesn't take crit damage.
    5. After all that, specifically one or two moves to recast your shields, you then would need to heal up whilst facing an opponent with drained resources who is most likely attempting to high-tail it out of there before trying again having lost the element of surprise.

    Which basically just says that shields and healing work very differently - their relative strengths are increased/reduced in different ways - attackers need different builds/strats to deal with them - which is all good for variety - good for the game. Its difficult to say that one is stronger than the other - but it is easy to see that one is more demoralising to the opposition when he can't get his opponents health to drop.

    Lemme give an example on your point 5 - but the other way round... I fought a 1v2 recently vs another sorc and a yolo stamblade. I'd kited them for a bit so the stamblage didn't have any stealth advantage then I suddenly turned and dropped my burst on him - he survived, I was under a lot of pressure - health had dropped, pet was down so couldn't heal.. so with my next burst I dropped my ulti too and killed him. He was over-confident and didn't heal or dodge. The sorc turned and ran.
    What that sorc didn't know was that I had 0 magicka and 0 stam left. I was a light armour, no-impen, low health guy stood there unable to use any active defences whatsoever and he ran. I bet he was thinking 'Damn, that guy's overpowered'...
    I was using a VERY high burst/high shield build but with 0 sustain. You never really know what the other guy is running and what his weaknesses are - and often only see the strengths.

    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Hutch679
    Hutch679
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    @Biro123 no sense in talking with @waitwhat ... he is in multiple sorc threads crying about needing a nerf to shields on sorcs and has never even played a sorc... he's a gankblade that expects to one shot every player from stealth without them being able to use any skills or abilities for defense. Ridiculous lol. It's like he just wants to attack target dummies or something.
  • brandishsteel
    brandishsteel
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    SORC needs a nerf
    Marco Hacker - the best mageblade in the game
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    SORC needs a nerf

    Very insightful. That convinced me.
  • DeviousCat
    Yes, getting so tired of the whiners crying to momma Zos for a nerf on Sorcs. Zos got their new crop of players, spoon feed everything to them and now their still getting butt hurt because they don't win every fight.

    Nerf this nerf that cause I'm to lazy to L2P.
  • OrphanHelgen
    OrphanHelgen
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    You can use the other morph which also gives minor magickaregen or whatever its called. That had higher duration.
    PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact


    Finally a reason not to play League of Legends
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    I can tell you that, dodge penalty is WAY to generous. I have yet to run into a competent NB that wasn't able to dodge every frag and roll twice if Vigor needs to tick.
    Either penalty should go up, or - preferrably - reduce the i-frames. No need to be dodging attacks while you're attacking, that's BS.

    *ducks for the inevitable forumblades' ganking*
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    Shields are fine, they are meant to be used in reaction to damage, not kept up 100% of the time.

    Wait till the sustain nerf next patch when you CANNOT keep shields up forever:

    IF light armor provided some defense, yes. But with the incoming high damage and absurd penetration values, you're often forced to keep them up 100%.

    They should honestly start their timer after taking damage. You don't heal when you're at 100%, why do I have to refresh despite not being hit, just to avoid a oneshot?

    Or just buff LA defense. Either works. But there's bigger problems out there, to be honest.

    My light armor build has 22k phys resist and 27k spell resist when i use one buff.
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    waitwhat wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    Destyran wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Shields are a weird subject nowdays.

    Allow bad players to survive by literally spamming them for several minutes which is also annoying.
    Stacking allows anyone you don't actually kill to get back to full hp, also annoying.

    The same is true for dodgeroll. Or blocking. Any bad player can just go full defense until reinforcements arrive and dish out an ult.
    Vigor and Dragon Blood are just as strong as shields if used correctly. Shields eat all damage and CC and status effects, whereas dodge avoids those and even breaks roots and is unaffected by snares, on top of granting Expedition with a bow. And don't get me started on Healing Ward flying off to an ally.
    In the end, absurd healing and the burst meta is what's plagueing Cyro, alongside zergs, of course.

    As for me, I'm smiling when I look at those "nerf shields" threads, knowing how easily two damage builds dps them down. While that Nightblade over there dodges every. single. Frag from multiple opponents. Sure....

    The part about dodge roll does not comport with reality. The consecutive use penalty is brutal, especially for stam classes that have to balance dodge rolling with their abilities, and that don't have Dark Exchange.

    Also, please bear in mind that dodge roll only gets less expensive in medium armor, which no one in their right mind wears in Cyrodiil.

    People whom wanna dodge roll do... or stamNB insta gibbers... (that's about it tho...)

    About the shields supposedly being a reaction to damage: that works great and all except the 10k power lash, 10k incap, 10k barrage, 10k frag.

    It would be cool not to die immediately in light armor with no ward, but it just doesn't work that way.

    Edit: I dare you to take on my 110k tool tip soul assault with a LA and no ward...lmfao

    you are telling me? You are getting hit for 10k power lashes and frags though your sheilds?

    I think he's saying that those abilities hit for those amounts in light armor without shields, thus causing a theoretical him to die instantly. Of course that theoretical him could solve that problem by wearing heavy armor like everyone else, and by putting more points/glyphs into health, since PvP shouldn't be about min/maxing damage, but should be about thinking situationally.

    Lol that theoretical me is pointing out how absurd the concept of using Wards AFTER being attacked - as in, reactionary.

    That's what's that's about

    If you survive the initial burst, which you can against most gankers if you're in heavy with high resistances and points in Hardy/Elemental Defender, then wards would serve the same function as Breath of Life for templars: They give you time to recover from the hit. Indeed, they would overperform Breath of Life in this case, because their efficiency cannot be reduced as that of Breath of Life would via Major Defile.

    Thank you for proving my point.

    The statement was, there is no way a LIGHT ARMOR user can expect to take on that damage and then REACT by using Wards.

    You keep mentioning heavy armor, which is I keep saying that the premise is based on LIGHT ARMOR.

    I can on my light armor build. I also use guard to protect the squishy nightblades i run with.
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    I think the biggest issue here is player level. The great sorcs i face never let shields drop, and are absolutely tough to beat. If they get low they streak you to cc and run away long enough to reset.

    Other sorcs dont time shields right and give me a 2 second window to burst them down and i put jelly on them and eat them like toast for breakfast.

    Another issue is that in order to counter a shield stacker you need 60 or more points in shattering blows or shield breaker. Magika users arent using sb, and no one is taking from other trees to max out shattering blows.

    Put shattering blows and befoul in the same tree but not the blue ones.
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    Destyran wrote: »
    waitwhat wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Shields are a weird subject nowdays.

    Allow bad players to survive by literally spamming them for several minutes which is also annoying.
    Stacking allows anyone you don't actually kill to get back to full hp, also annoying.

    The same is true for dodgeroll. Or blocking. Any bad player can just go full defense until reinforcements arrive and dish out an ult.
    Vigor and Dragon Blood are just as strong as shields if used correctly. Shields eat all damage and CC and status effects, whereas dodge avoids those and even breaks roots and is unaffected by snares, on top of granting Expedition with a bow. And don't get me started on Healing Ward flying off to an ally.
    In the end, absurd healing and the burst meta is what's plagueing Cyro, alongside zergs, of course.

    As for me, I'm smiling when I look at those "nerf shields" threads, knowing how easily two damage builds dps them down. While that Nightblade over there dodges every. single. Frag from multiple opponents. Sure....

    The part about dodge roll does not comport with reality. The consecutive use penalty is brutal, especially for stam classes that have to balance dodge rolling with their abilities, and that don't have Dark Exchange.

    Also, please bear in mind that dodge roll only gets less expensive in medium armor, which no one in their right mind wears in Cyrodiil.

    People whom wanna dodge roll do... or stamNB insta gibbers... (that's about it tho...)

    About the shields supposedly being a reaction to damage: that works great and all except the 10k power lash, 10k incap, 10k barrage, 10k frag.

    It would be cool not to die immediately in light armor with no ward, but it just doesn't work that way.

    Edit: I dare you to take on my 110k tool tip soul assault with a LA and no ward...lmfao

    you are telling me? You are getting hit for 10k power lashes and frags though your sheilds?

    I think he's saying that those abilities hit for those amounts in light armor without shields, thus causing a theoretical him to die instantly. Of course that theoretical him could solve that problem by wearing heavy armor like everyone else, and by putting more points/glyphs into health, since PvP shouldn't be about min/maxing damage, but should be about thinking situationally.

    Lol that theoretical me is pointing out how absurd the concept of using Wards AFTER being attacked - as in, reactionary.

    That's what's that's about

    If you survive the initial burst, which you can against most gankers if you're in heavy with high resistances and points in Hardy/Elemental Defender, then wards would serve the same function as Breath of Life for templars: They give you time to recover from the hit. Indeed, they would overperform Breath of Life in this case, because their efficiency cannot be reduced as that of Breath of Life would via Major Defile.

    No they wouldn't. far from it.:
    BoL will take you out of execute range, shields don't - so you still take high hits from executes.
    BOL can be buffed with major mending - direct opposite to Major defile. Shields can't.
    BoL can crit-heal. You can never crit-shield
    BoL heals the mitigated damage taken - which means more dmg needs to be done to counter.. Shields take the full dmg.
    And after all that, the shielded player still needs to heal up too....

    I mean yesterday I was spamming mages wrath on a low health magplar. he dropped down to between 5 and 10% health and in the split-second between one of my casts and the next he was instantly up to full health. This was with 3-4 people beating on him at the same time. There is no way you can tell me that sorc shields are this strong..
    You can pre emptively put a shield on, you can pre emptively burst heal. Maybe a heal over time but thats diminished instantly.
  • Sheuib
    Sheuib
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    Just giving the buff sorc shields another post so it can keep up with the nerf sorc shields thread.
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    And you can waste a ton of majica and waste a ton of gcd's that could instead be used to attack while preemptively shielding if no attacks come in..

    There are pros and cons to both.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Neloth
    Neloth
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    Dark Conversion - Dark Conversion - get CC'd - die ?

    If your sustain is build around dark conversion, you have around 1200-1400 stam recovery (amber plasm + serpent + vampire), and 15k stamina with 3-stat food, so if you running out of stamina, it's l2p issue. I can even dodge roll 2-3 times between dark conversions and CC breaks.

    And it's not affected with mag regen CP changes, you'll lose only 10% cost reduction, and it won't influence these builds at all.

  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    I think the biggest issue here is player level. The great sorcs i face never let shields drop, and are absolutely tough to beat. If they get low they streak you to cc and run away long enough to reset.

    Other sorcs dont time shields right and give me a 2 second window to burst them down and i put jelly on them and eat them like toast for breakfast.

    Another issue is that in order to counter a shield stacker you need 60 or more points in shattering blows or shield breaker. Magika users arent using sb, and no one is taking from other trees to max out shattering blows.

    Put shattering blows and befoul in the same tree but not the blue ones.

    Sooo... Keeping shields up 100% is advised? What's the point in Boundless+Aegis then?
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    I think the biggest issue here is player level. The great sorcs i face never let shields drop, and are absolutely tough to beat. If they get low they streak you to cc and run away long enough to reset.

    Other sorcs dont time shields right and give me a 2 second window to burst them down and i put jelly on them and eat them like toast for breakfast.

    Another issue is that in order to counter a shield stacker you need 60 or more points in shattering blows or shield breaker. Magika users arent using sb, and no one is taking from other trees to max out shattering blows.

    Put shattering blows and befoul in the same tree but not the blue ones.

    Sooo... Keeping shields up 100% is advised? What's the point in Boundless+Aegis then?

    Cant advise on how to play, just telling you what ive experienced in opposing sorc players and the difference.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    I think the biggest issue here is player level. The great sorcs i face never let shields drop, and are absolutely tough to beat. If they get low they streak you to cc and run away long enough to reset.

    Other sorcs dont time shields right and give me a 2 second window to burst them down and i put jelly on them and eat them like toast for breakfast.

    Another issue is that in order to counter a shield stacker you need 60 or more points in shattering blows or shield breaker. Magika users arent using sb, and no one is taking from other trees to max out shattering blows.

    Put shattering blows and befoul in the same tree but not the blue ones.

    Sooo... Keeping shields up 100% is advised? What's the point in Boundless+Aegis then?

    Cant advise on how to play, just telling you what ive experienced in opposing sorc players and the difference.

    Yeah, because you have to keep them up. You can't use 'em reactively, as someone suggested. You say you need a two second window. That's confirming me, right?
  • t3hdubzy
    t3hdubzy
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    I think the biggest issue here is player level. The great sorcs i face never let shields drop, and are absolutely tough to beat. If they get low they streak you to cc and run away long enough to reset.

    Other sorcs dont time shields right and give me a 2 second window to burst them down and i put jelly on them and eat them like toast for breakfast.

    Another issue is that in order to counter a shield stacker you need 60 or more points in shattering blows or shield breaker. Magika users arent using sb, and no one is taking from other trees to max out shattering blows.

    Put shattering blows and befoul in the same tree but not the blue ones.

    Sooo... Keeping shields up 100% is advised? What's the point in Boundless+Aegis then?

    Cant advise on how to play, just telling you what ive experienced in opposing sorc players and the difference.

    Yeah, because you have to keep them up. You can't use 'em reactively, as someone suggested. You say you need a two second window. That's confirming me, right?

    Nope, im saying the difference between good and not so good players is that good players dont give me a window, and not so good players always give me the window.

  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    I think the biggest issue here is player level. The great sorcs i face never let shields drop, and are absolutely tough to beat. If they get low they streak you to cc and run away long enough to reset.

    Other sorcs dont time shields right and give me a 2 second window to burst them down and i put jelly on them and eat them like toast for breakfast.

    Another issue is that in order to counter a shield stacker you need 60 or more points in shattering blows or shield breaker. Magika users arent using sb, and no one is taking from other trees to max out shattering blows.

    Put shattering blows and befoul in the same tree but not the blue ones.

    Sooo... Keeping shields up 100% is advised? What's the point in Boundless+Aegis then?

    Cant advise on how to play, just telling you what ive experienced in opposing sorc players and the difference.

    Yeah, because you have to keep them up. You can't use 'em reactively, as someone suggested. You say you need a two second window. That's confirming me, right?

    Nope, im saying the difference between good and not so good players is that good players dont give me a window, and not so good players always give me the window.

    Fair enough.
    Same is true for rollblades, however. And any class, really.
  • GrigorijMalahevich
    GrigorijMalahevich
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    Haha nice thread, finally!

    Shields are fine!

    Fix streak!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    PC/EU 800 CP.
    PvP MagSorc.
    Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
    Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
    Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
    Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    I don't run boundless or aegis, i front bar Hardened, yeah it's up 100% of the time on my LA sorc.
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1200+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
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