Once again.... disgusted.

bg22

Callous2208 wrote: »

You should be fine on stamina as long as you're not concerned with leaderboards or vet trials.

Lol!

As long as I don't want to be competitive I'm ok playing stamina.

Thank you for that.

LadyLavina

bg22 wrote: »

I need to bring up the current state of balance?

Would you venture to say that Stam is more powerful than Mag currently?

No... I don't have to explain that to anyone, bc EVERYONE on these forums is here for 1 of 2 reasons, to defend their ridiculously overpowered selves, or to vent about how overpowered magicka is.

You're right, you don't have to explain anything to anyone, but until you start bringing logical arguments to the table in a well put together & non rage filled way, nobody is going to care or take you and your little rage fest seriously.

Now it seems in your latest reply you're making illogical statements and speaking on behalf of literally everyone. You speak for no one but yourself. You don't know what people are thinking/feeling or their reasoning for being on the forums.

Essentially what you've done is walked into a room full of a people, proclaimed "I'M MAD AND THIS IS DUMB!" at the top of your lungs, and refused to engage anyone about the subject matter in a civil way.

Bouldercleave

bg22 wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

So this thread is just to complain about stamina based builds that you clearly don't understand, without providing any specifics so that they can be discussed all for the purpose of just complaining?

No need for L2P. You're not even close to that level... L2 express an opinion.

100% you're a magicka main.

It's ALWAYS the other side of the fence that rushes in to say "Nuh uh! Everything is perfect!"

Tell me again how many stamina characters are on trial leaderboards?

I can hop on my magicka toon, play with my feet, and still outperform my stamina character main.

I run both and find stamina MUCH easier to play, easier rotations, and much easier to stay alive. Magicka takes a ton more finesse, and I'm not even close to mastering the potential DPS.

That being said, I don't find validation for my life on the trial leaderboards - my e-peen is big enough as it is.

WreckfulAbandon

Hush. I'm doing just fine. So just do fine OP.

ADarklore

Funny how people talk about Stamina being bad when Stamina Sorcs are everywhere and there is a reason... they're a blast to play and are successful at pretty much everything they do.

Panth141

There's definitely an argument that stamina is in a bad place, competitive PvE wise - a logical and sensible argument. Unfortunately the OP isn't making this argument - this is the second thread today where the OP has made a controversial opening point and then started arguments with those who have disagreed with it.

Without meaning it as a personal attack, I would suggest that someone who is pulling 15k DPS isn't the best candidate for chief inspector of the state of end-game, leaderboard PvE.

Again, there is a definite point to be made about the current state of stamina in PvE, but you're not offering reasons or any logical argument. You make a controversial point and then set up the bait as 'Can't wait for the first magicka player to rush in here and say "L2P, there's always at least 1 stamina character on the leader boards".' This is why people are suggesting that, after your return from a long break, you've just come here to troll.

Poor form.

kylerjalen

Granted trying to do a veteran trial is pretty much trying to find an ice cream shop in the Antarctic but for other things, stamina characters are pretty awesome.
And damn fun to play... which is what counts (at least to me it is).

Orbital

Stop being the odd one out because it gains you attention and make a mag sorc you absolute noob

Gilvoth

magicka skills and damage has allways been stronger in eso.
even since beta 2013.

FriedEggSandwich

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka skills and damage has allways been stronger in eso.
even since beta 2013.

There's not much evidence to support this claim. I've played since launch and remember the skirts and sticks meta and how bad stam nbs were, but since then stam has had more than one hayday.

bg22

Panth141 wrote: »

There's definitely an argument that stamina is in a bad place, competitive PvE wise - a logical and sensible argument. Unfortunately the OP isn't making this argument - this is the second thread today where the OP has made a controversial opening point and then started arguments with those who have disagreed with it.

Without meaning it as a personal attack, I would suggest that someone who is pulling 15k DPS isn't the best candidate for chief inspector of the state of end-game, leaderboard PvE.

Again, there is a definite point to be made about the current state of stamina in PvE, but you're not offering reasons or any logical argument. You make a controversial point and then set up the bait as 'Can't wait for the first magicka player to rush in here and say "L2P, there's always at least 1 stamina character on the leader boards".' This is why people are suggesting that, after your return from a long break, you've just come here to troll.

Poor form.

This was nothing but a fed up (again) thread.

I'm pulling 15k DPS with my PvP build. Do I honestly need to state what is wrong with the current balance of stamina/magicka? Okay, I will.

Magicka does more damage.
Magicka has Better survivability.

You shouldn't have both of the above. It's as simple as that.

bg22

Orbital wrote: »

Stop being the odd one out because it gains you attention and make a mag sorc you absolute noob

XD

bg22

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka skills and damage has allways been stronger in eso.
even since beta 2013.

Shhhhhhh! Nobody will agree with your posts if you speak the truth here! MagSorcs are 90% of the forums. Which is why 90% of the forums agree that MagSorcs aren't OP.

L2p.

Shadzilla

Stamina is extinct in end game competitive trials. Not just due to survivability or utility, but to the lack of aoe and single target dps. To further justify these facts I will link a thread that has many more comments posted about how bad stamina currently is. Keep in mind lots of the posters in this thread have top world scores, and are very credible. Along with the fact that this thread was made LAST patch. We all know how bad stamina was nerfed after homestead hit to further drive them away from trials.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p1

LadyLavina

Shadzilla wrote: »

Stamina is extinct in end game competitive trials. Not just due to survivability or utility, but to the lack of aoe and single target dps. To further justify these facts I will link a thread that has many more comments posted about how bad stamina currently is. Keep in mind lots of the posters in this thread have top world scores, and are very credible. Along with the fact that this thread was made LAST patch. We all know how bad stamina was nerfed after homestead hit to further drive them away from trials.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p1

Shadzilla is love, Shadzilla is life. 10/10.

Props for linking that thread.

While I did lay into OP a little bit b/c of the way this was all presented, there are some valid complaints here.

FriedEggSandwich

.

Shadzilla wrote: »

Stamina is extinct in end game competitive trials. Not just due to survivability or utility, but to the lack of aoe and single target dps. To further justify these facts I will link a thread that has many more comments posted about how bad stamina currently is. Keep in mind lots of the posters in this thread have top world scores, and are very credible. Along with the fact that this thread was made LAST patch. We all know how bad stamina was nerfed after homestead hit to further drive them away from trials.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p1

That's all very well, but the op is speaking specifically about pvp apparently.

Bouldercleave

MAYBE everything wasn't meant to be perfectly equal....

How boring would that be?

FriedEggSandwich

bg22 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka skills and damage has allways been stronger in eso.
even since beta 2013.

Shhhhhhh! Nobody will agree with your posts if you speak the truth here! MagSorcs are 90% of the forums. Which is why 90% of the forums agree that MagSorcs aren't OP.

L2p.

People object to generalised statements with hyperbole to support angry sentiments. This is a forum and reasonable discussion is expected. I main a magsorc, if you have the inclination go and read my recent comments on this forum and then tell me that I agree magsorcs aren't op. You have a very negative opinion of people on this forum and it's not helping your cause. I want to have a reasonable discussion but your comments really turn me off, not because of what they say but because of how you present them.

Shadzilla

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Shadzilla wrote: »

Stamina is extinct in end game competitive trials. Not just due to survivability or utility, but to the lack of aoe and single target dps. To further justify these facts I will link a thread that has many more comments posted about how bad stamina currently is. Keep in mind lots of the posters in this thread have top world scores, and are very credible. Along with the fact that this thread was made LAST patch. We all know how bad stamina was nerfed after homestead hit to further drive them away from trials.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p1

That's all very well, but the op is speaking specifically about pvp apparently.

I would have to argue that stamina is also behind in pvp as well. Pending on the situation of course. I mean honestly have you ever seen 2 stamina toons completely destroy a 40 man zerg in 10 seconds? Nope. Stamina has never, ever, had anything close to proxy det vicious death grothdar destro ult. When it comes to small scale? Sure talented stamina users can hold their own against mag. Although I would much rather see aoe zerg busting be possible for stamina toons, not just magicka.

SaRuZ

I respecced to a cheese stamsorc with 1T. Was running 2pc Tremor, 5pc Black Rose, 7pc Viper. High single target damage.

Got bored though, no skill needed. Buff, buff and proc, meh, even self heal with DW & Dark deal , lol.

I respecced to Magsorc with homestead and I am having fun again. Much more skills in rotation and I prefer gradual AoE's in PvE to Burst Single Target so it's worth it, plus ony have to buff with power surge when aegie & inner light are slotted.

FriedEggSandwich

Shadzilla wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Shadzilla wrote: »

Stamina is extinct in end game competitive trials. Not just due to survivability or utility, but to the lack of aoe and single target dps. To further justify these facts I will link a thread that has many more comments posted about how bad stamina currently is. Keep in mind lots of the posters in this thread have top world scores, and are very credible. Along with the fact that this thread was made LAST patch. We all know how bad stamina was nerfed after homestead hit to further drive them away from trials.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p1

That's all very well, but the op is speaking specifically about pvp apparently.

I would have to argue that stamina is also behind in pvp as well. Pending on the situation of course. I mean honestly have you ever seen 2 stamina toons completely destroy a 40 man zerg in 10 seconds? Nope. Stamina has never, ever, had anything close to proxy det vicious death grothdar destro ult. When it comes to small scale? Sure talented stamina users can hold their own against mag. Although I would much rather see aoe zerg busting be possible for stamina toons, not just magicka.

Great points. I was merely addressing the people putting effort into outlining the pve side of things because that's not where the op is coming from so it seems.

waterfairy

I have 2 "main" characters...a female redguard dw/bow stamblade werewolf and a male altmer destro/resto staff magsorc vampire (complete opposites).
Both get by just fine but my sorc tends to do better in pve whereas my nb shines in pvp.

I play solo most of the time and don't use proc sets so no viper for my stamblade.

Dantaria

bg22 wrote: »

Magicka does more damage.
Magicka has Better survivability.

No. Stamina outperforms magicka when it comes to single-target damage. People in the thread, which @Shadzilla linked, have been talking about it too, by the way.

The skill ceiling is higher, imo. I have always founded stamina more difficult. But I watched players, who are much better then me in the game as a whole. If we talk about BiS setup, group support and not something inherently unfriendly to melee like MoL (why it was designed as it was designed is beyond me), they tend to outperform their own mag builds on stam builds when it comes to bosses.

So, @bg22.

bg22 wrote: »

I'm pulling 15k DPS with my PvP build.

What's your DPS on PvE build then? And rotation?

Shadzilla

Dantaria wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Magicka does more damage.
Magicka has Better survivability.

No. Stamina outperforms magicka when it comes to single-target damage. People in the thread, which @Shadzilla linked, have been talking about it too, by the way.

The skill ceiling is higher, imo. I have always founded stamina more difficult. But I watched players, who are much better then me in the game as a whole. If we talk about BiS setup, group support and not something inherently unfriendly to melee like MoL (why it was designed as it was designed is beyond me), they tend to outperform their own mag builds on stam builds when it comes to bosses.

So, @bg22.

bg22 wrote: »

I'm pulling 15k DPS with my PvP build.

What's your DPS on PvE build then? And rotation?

I would like to point out that stamina is behind on single target in the homestead patch. That thread was made in 1 tam. The nerfs to stamina have put them behind mag in single target, not by very much though. The main reasoning stamina does not get to dps in raids is because of the survivability and aoe. Mag can double their health with the click of a button, stamina has to block roll or eat it. Mag does almost twice the aoe dmg stam does in perfect raid settings, and considering 95% of this game is aoe that is the main issue. Single target is actually quite even as it is, regardless of stam being behind a bit. You would think stamina should have a massive advantage in single target though... Considering you have to be melee and have no shields.

Dantaria

Shadzilla wrote: »

I would like to point out that stamina is behind on single target in the homestead patch. That thread was made in 1 tam. The nerfs to stamina have put them behind mag in single target, not by very much though. The main reasoning stamina does not get to dps in raids is because of the survivability and aoe. Mag can double their health with the click of a button, stamina has to block roll or eat it. Mag does almost twice the aoe dmg stam does in perfect raid settings, and considering 95% of this game is aoe that is the main issue. Single target is actually quite even as it is, regardless of stam being behind a bit. You would think stamina should have a massive advantage in single target though... Considering you have to be melee and have no shields.

I must admit, I still have doubts about it.

I mean, no arguing about stam AOEs and survivability. Those need to be buffed, mag outperforms stam in AOE department so much it isn't remotely funny. And survival. Yes. Vigor or gtfo and even Vigor... Meh.

However I've heard and seen that people still manage to pull better numbers in single-target department. Not by much, but still. But also yes, you're not the first one to tell that Homestead was final nail into the coffin.

It's hard to measure, which makes me so frustrated You never know if it's L2P issue or actual reality. You can't take 0.00001% of playerbase, people who are "mostly objectively" great in both stam and mag department and kindly ask them to kill the dummy 1000 times on top-notch magbuild and 1000 times on top-notch stam-build and compare the results with all due scientific respect

In the times like this I honestly wish I could see the program code...

idk

Chibs wrote: »

L2p. There are a lot of Stam characters who are doing just fine.

^^^^

While I see less stamina, I see stamina breaching 50k easily in trials. 55k+

We all have room for improvement. Improving the smoothness of our rotation, tweaking our rotation and maybe reviewing our gear are what every strong player does consistently. Also, asking for help from a skill player in our guilds goes a long way.

Strider_Roshin

L2P...... Magicka

Shad0wfire99

Where were all the "nerf mag, buff stam" threads a couple months back? Stam was far superior for months, if not longer, until Homestead. A month in and now all the QQ'ing starts.

jircris11

bg22 wrote: »

Just really disgusted with the state of stamina characters. This is why I left in the first place, 2 years ago.

Can't wait for the first magicka player to rush in here and say "L2P, there's always at least 1 stamina character on the leader boards".

I built my own Stamblade, and honestly I love her. I converted her from magic to stamina a while ago and never looked back.

Shadzilla

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Where were all the "nerf mag, buff stam" threads a couple months back? Stam was far superior for months, if not longer, until Homestead. A month in and now all the QQ'ing starts.

Uhhhhh stam has been trash for 95% of this games existence... There were 2 patches that stamina outperformed mag as dps in competitive endgame trials. Did you not pay attention to the leaderboards in October? As soon as vma weapons got nerfed stamina went out the window. It actually got to the point where most teams would not allow stamina dps in score runs, can't blame them either. DSA and vMA on the other hand... Stamina still had that going until the homestead patch.