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RNG is not broken, it's poorly implemented, also it really is broken though
Messy1
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Okay ZOS, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but here it goes again!
No one is having fun grinding for gear, every day in zone chat I see complaints rising.
The RNG is not encouraging players to stay and play, it's burning them out. What would the harm be of a token system, or a choice of what dungeon gear you get? Even just a guarantee of one item that you really want to drop in a dungeon would be helpful.
RNG seems rigged, as in drop rates for the most sought after items seems to be lower than items people consider to be junk.
And on top of that sometimes the RNG is just plain broke, like the time paintings were supposed to have a chance to be found in chests, but they just weren't. Or in patch notes when you admit that drop rates for items was unintentionally too high or too low.
Be careful ZOS you are treading on thin ice and you have a lot of dedicated players that are becoming frustrated!
No one is having fun grinding for gear, every day in zone chat I see complaints rising.
The RNG is not encouraging players to stay and play, it's burning them out. What would the harm be of a token system, or a choice of what dungeon gear you get? Even just a guarantee of one item that you really want to drop in a dungeon would be helpful.
RNG seems rigged, as in drop rates for the most sought after items seems to be lower than items people consider to be junk.
And on top of that sometimes the RNG is just plain broke, like the time paintings were supposed to have a chance to be found in chests, but they just weren't. Or in patch notes when you admit that drop rates for items was unintentionally too high or too low.
Be careful ZOS you are treading on thin ice and you have a lot of dedicated players that are becoming frustrated!
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Dr.NRG✭✭✭✭Okay ZOS, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but here it goes again!
No one is having fun grinding for gear, every day in zone chat I see complaints rising.
The RNG is not encouraging players to stay and play, it's burning them out. What would the harm be of a token system, or a choice of what dungeon gear you get? Even just a guarantee of one item that you really want to drop in a dungeon would be helpful.
RNG seems rigged, as in drop rates for the most sought after items seems to be lower than items people consider to be junk.
And on top of that sometimes the RNG is just plain broke, like the time paintings were supposed to have a chance to be found in chests, but they just weren't. Or in patch notes when you admit that drop rates for items was unintentionally too high or too low.
Be careful ZOS you are treading on thin ice and you have a lot of dedicated players that are becoming frustrated!
Exactly!. -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭I gave up with rng, I can't take it. I'm willing to confine myself to normal and crafted kit because I can't face the monsterouse walls of rng. A friend has run vet maelstrom arena six hundred and eighty one times and never once got the sharpened trait they wanted.
On any of the items!!!
In the end they finally called it quits, scrapped every dropped item they had and joined me and the rest of the happy Care Bears in normal with crafted gear, they admitted recently that they should have done it ages ago. So fear not oh frustrated gear grinders, come and join us gently casuals, there is room and welcome for you
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Most_Awesome✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I'm fed up of the grinding with no light at the end of the tunnel, fine if I have to run a dungeon 50 times to get the item I want then fine, but the fact I could run the dungeon for years and never get it due to rng just makes this game crap to me.
I just made a thread in rage due to spending 2.3 Mil AP on bags trying to get a sharped inferno staff, and all I got was an infused one that for PvP is vendor trash to me! -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I need two BSW destro staffs sharpen took 100s of runs to get im not looking forward to trying to get another one q.qEdited by FloppyTouch on March 19, 2017 11:27AM -
Artanis✭✭Just keep the same gearing system, and there are many things that could be done to make RNG more smooth:
First Choice: Increase the chances on popular traits like divines, infused, impen, sharpened, precise.
Second Choice: Get rid of useless traits that no one practically uses.
Third Choice: If all the traits are retained for diversity sake, increase the chances of getting an item with a trait that you never received in the process of grinding. (i.e. you get 10 well-fitted, training, prosperous after 10 runs -> you have increased chance of getting infused, divines, and etc.)
I understand where ZOS is coming from; they want RNG to make people keep challenging the same contents over and over again and thus induce them to stay longer in the game to gear up. But yall are right - RNG at the current state is making people quit. Which seems strange cause there seems to be a lot of simple solutions to fix this issue.Edited by Artanis on March 19, 2017 12:09PMPC NA Megaserver
Cyrodiil Campaign Trueflame
<DC> Ar'tanis - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't like token systems, unless tokens themselves are tradeable. Token content tends to be run a certain amount until you get your reward and then never again. It shares that problem with all BoP mechanics.
What I'd really like to see is a re-trait (and re-style) system. Implement it meaningfully and we could have less trouble with RNG and a new layer for the economy.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it. -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭If gears was easy to get, then people would whine why there isnt nothing to do, so that said its not so simple.
I think this is much bigger issue, I would add Gear Database, where player can browse gears, then see how to obtain them, then go for them. Second, I would overhaul the entire gear upgrade system as its next to joke atm. Also where need a place to store gears/builds.Edited by Sausage on March 19, 2017 12:35PM -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »I gave up with rng, I can't take it. I'm willing to confine myself to normal and crafted kit because I can't face the monsterouse walls of rng. A friend has run vet maelstrom arena six hundred and eighty one times and never once got the sharpened trait they wanted.
On any of the items!!!
In the end they finally called it quits, scrapped every dropped item they had and joined me and the rest of the happy Care Bears in normal with crafted gear, they admitted recently that they should have done it ages ago. So fear not oh frustrated gear grinders, come and join us gently casuals, there is room and welcome for you
I did this and my life in game is so much better now. If I can't buy it or craft it, it's not for me to have. I can PvP and vDungeon reasonably well and that's all I want.
The grind was seriously killing me until I just went "snip it".
#churchofcasual -
AFrostWolf✭✭✭✭Just remove everything that isn't divines or sharpened. The RNG would be better that way.
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WarpigFunk✭✭✭Okay ZOS, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but here it goes again!
No one is having fun grinding for gear, every day in zone chat I see complaints rising.
The RNG is not encouraging players to stay and play, it's burning them out. ...
What you have: Your opinion, and anecdotal evidence.
What ZOS has: millions of data points from ESO and every MMO that's ever been played.
Bottom line: RNG loot grinds are a staple of MMOs because they provide a reliable time sink that KEEPS players playing and engaged. I can tell with some measure of certainty that burnout occurs MUCH faster when you've reached peak gear than when you're still on the grind for missing pieces.
Removing RNG or adding tokens means everyone gets their own specific BiS stuff and then what .... progression all but ends outside of PvP.
Anyone with an intro to psych in college has read their Skinner ... if you want to know why there ZOS doesn't implement broad spectrum token systems, you need to google "operant conditioning."
PS4 [NA]
Hingle McKringleberry - Altmer MagSorc DD The Flawless Conquerer
Sek Sual Chocolate - Redguard StamSorc DD Stormproof
Doktor Feelgood - Breton Templar Healz Boethia's Scythe
Tiberius Asskickatron - Imperial DK StamTank Mageslayer
-VERIFIED-
-FFF-
vAAHM 100k+, vSOHM 100k+, vHRCHM 100k+, vMoL 78k, vDSA 36k, vMA 535k -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Keep the rng but add an token system. This way you you will find much of the gear and can get the missing parts for tokens. Amount of tokens can well be high say 30 tokens for an dungeon drop since its only to fill out the missing parts.I don't like token systems, unless tokens themselves are tradeable. Token content tends to be run a certain amount until you get your reward and then never again. It shares that problem with all BoP mechanics.
What I'd really like to see is a re-trait (and re-style) system. Implement it meaningfully and we could have less trouble with RNG and a new layer for the economy.
Dungeons will share tokens, that is inside the same layer, veteran dungeons has its own tokens who can be used to purchase the monster sets. You could also use the dungeon tokens for overland sets like necropotente.
An even more fun idea would be an crafting station, tokens are materials, you select set instead of level, then style and trait. For balance ignore most of the crafting requirements outside of style.
Probably simpler than an merchant with all sort of sets with all traits.
Its however an danger that they will add tokens who give you an box with selected weapon with an random non sharpened trait. -
Most_Awesome✭✭✭✭✭People say if gear is easier then the sooner they quit, well that's the complete opposite to me. I would run a Dungeon 8/10 times and expect a near full set of the gear I wanted in the correct trait then I can enjoy PvP for ever, I would even run the Dungeon for others to gear them out too. But after say 3 runs and all I've got is a training set piece I lose the will to carry on anymore.
I have all character slots and every character has like 80% of complete sets for instance I have a build ready to go with Spriggans and Automaton but I need the gloves and I can only run a Dungeon so many times after getting 4 useless crap traited gloves, I just quit and fob that character off and go on another and achieve nothing in the end. -
WarpigFunk✭✭✭Most_Awesome wrote: »People say if gear is easier then the sooner they quit, well that's the complete opposite to me. I would run a Dungeon 8/10 times and expect a near full set of the gear I wanted in the correct trait then I can enjoy PvP for ever, I would even run the Dungeon for others to gear them out too. But after say 3 runs and all I've got is a training set piece I lose the will to carry on anymore.
I have all character slots and every character has like 80% of complete sets for instance I have a build ready to go with Spriggans and Automaton but I need the gloves and I can only run a Dungeon so many times after getting 4 useless crap traited gloves, I just quit and fob that character off and go on another and achieve nothing in the end.
here's the thing though ... if PvP is your primary goal, like 80%+ of what you'll want to be wearing can be purchased for one of the various in game currencies. It's mostly, but not all of course, BoE overland stuff.
Also - if you're fully kitted out and just missing an optimal trait glove, the difference in your character's overall efficacy will be like less than 3% We're talking like maybe a smidge more recovery, or like 1-2% crit chance, or a wee bit more crit protection.
You don't have to keep grinding - go PvP, and just hit up the dungeon every once in awhile when you want a change. Eventually it'll drop.
I certainly don't drop out of vet trial score runs because my ilambris shoulders are infused and not divines... it's like no big deal duder.
Edited by WarpigFunk on March 19, 2017 5:31PMPS4 [NA]
Hingle McKringleberry - Altmer MagSorc DD The Flawless Conquerer
Sek Sual Chocolate - Redguard StamSorc DD Stormproof
Doktor Feelgood - Breton Templar Healz Boethia's Scythe
Tiberius Asskickatron - Imperial DK StamTank Mageslayer
-VERIFIED-
-FFF-
vAAHM 100k+, vSOHM 100k+, vHRCHM 100k+, vMoL 78k, vDSA 36k, vMA 535k -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WarpigFunk wrote: »Okay ZOS, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but here it goes again!
No one is having fun grinding for gear, every day in zone chat I see complaints rising.
The RNG is not encouraging players to stay and play, it's burning them out. ...
What you have: Your opinion, and anecdotal evidence.
What ZOS has: millions of data points from ESO and every MMO that's ever been played.
Bottom line: RNG loot grinds are a staple of MMOs because they provide a reliable time sink that KEEPS players playing and engaged. I can tell with some measure of certainty that burnout occurs MUCH faster when you've reached peak gear than when you're still on the grind for missing pieces.
Removing RNG or adding tokens means everyone gets their own specific BiS stuff and then what .... progression all but ends outside of PvP.
Anyone with an intro to psych in college has read their Skinner ... if you want to know why there ZOS doesn't implement broad spectrum token systems, you need to google "operant conditioning."
wrong. im constantly trying new builds especially for pvp. the rng as is puts a complete end to that. there simply isnt enough time in life. -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭RNG isn't broken. It's working as intended. Every run is the roll of a 100+ sided die (combine all weapon types and traits). Your chance of getting exactly what you want on any given run is very very small.
Whether or not that is a good system is more subjective. Does it keep people playing? Apparently the answer is yes or they would have changed the system by now.
Certainly some people don't like it, but not liking something is different than being broken. For example, I happen to despise the new dwemer spider mount. That doesn't mean it's broken. -
WarpigFunk wrote: »Okay ZOS, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but here it goes again!
No one is having fun grinding for gear, every day in zone chat I see complaints rising.
The RNG is not encouraging players to stay and play, it's burning them out. ...
What you have: Your opinion, and anecdotal evidence.
What ZOS has: millions of data points from ESO and every MMO that's ever been played.
Bottom line: RNG loot grinds are a staple of MMOs because they provide a reliable time sink that KEEPS players playing and engaged. I can tell with some measure of certainty that burnout occurs MUCH faster when you've reached peak gear than when you're still on the grind for missing pieces.
Removing RNG or adding tokens means everyone gets their own specific BiS stuff and then what .... progression all but ends outside of PvP.
Anyone with an intro to psych in college has read their Skinner ... if you want to know why there ZOS doesn't implement broad spectrum token systems, you need to google "operant conditioning."
I agree the grind is real and happens in basically every game.
I disagree that ESO requires as much of a grind, because unlike most MMOs they really do have A LOT of content to play.
And your use of operant conditioning doesn't really fit. The problem with intro anything classes is that your knowledge is limited to, well, introductory information. If anything, that example explains that we've been behaviorally conditioned to NOT expect rewards.
