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Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind
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Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
But thats exactly what they are tying to do. They want to nerf the top.This is just speculation but I imagine cost reduction is being removed from CP system in order to promote using different armor types for cost reduction.
Wouldn't surprise me if they ended up buffing cost reduction passives that medium and light armor provides.
If this is the case its a really smart move. Pve wise sustain wouldn't really change as far as reducing ability costs. At the same time, in PvP it would provide more incentive to not use heavy armor.
When the masses complain on the forums ZOS listens, believe it or not. I really think this is their attempt to balance heavy armor in PvP while not making things way worse for pve.
Could be wrong though.
It's a smart move only if they buff those passives, making medium and light armor on par with heavy in pvp, but from what i understand they just wanna nerf sustain.
Oh, and it would also close the gap between cp 160 and 600 cp players without nerfing the top.
By removing those cp they are nerfing everyone, it's just stupid.
They should not remove those cp.
Also homogenization is not very clever, they should not nerf the top because of the bottom, and they should definitely not nerf every player.
The nerf doesnt hit everyone the same way. What exactly do u not understand? Do you actually believe that people need that cost reduction to do fungal grotto and banished cells? Are you for real now? Some people are not cp capped and yet they are still doing most of the content, some people do not have optimal cp allocation and yet they are still doing most of the content. The casuals do not need that cost reduction for the content they do.
And yes they should absolutely lower the ceiling. Its kinda laughable how everyone was bitching once upon a time about how easy the PVE content was and now that ZOS makes it harder, you started bitching about content being too hard. Its the hardest content of the game. Its suppose to be hard. Mechanics were made to be faced not skipped. The game is changing every patch. Its not gonna stay the same. Either adapt to it like everyone else did and will do or just quit.
LOL you might not like that outcome with that line of thinking as when you balance the game around such a small group of elitist pricks those games have and WILL die.
We'll most definitely see I assure you
Wut? Can you even read? I said this change is a nerf to elitists not the casuals.
This game was designed with resource management in mind. This got lost with CP and they are trying to bring it back which is good for the game in general. And you are just here bitching because 1% of the game's content will be harder to complete. How about u ask for a trial nerf instead?
Anw bottom line is that the game changes every patch. You will not always like the changes. And if u actually believe that the game will die in morrowind then u are delusional. The game survived game breaking mechanics and bugs. It will survive now too. Either adapt like everyone else or quit. We wont miss you.
Elitests? You mean the people with the best group support in the game? Do you even do trials? Holy hell lol. Yeah cuz this totally wont punish groups that cant get healers to throw shards and will totslly nerf high support groups.4 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive
so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
"Call yourself whatever you want".
Well then I guess I'll call myself 'me' then. Because I still dont fit neatly into any of your boxes.
For the record, the only thing I have ever been in favor of is a complete system rebalance. I'm not against hard content. I just dont think the current system can allow for hard content for those who want it. It is so limited, both by it's design and by it's inability to utilize most of itself, hence the extremely rigid meta, that I see SOTH dungeons as everything -wrong- with the system, rather than the best of it. Extremely high requirements needing the best in slot gear and best minmax tactics to beat, only achieveable by the higher echalons.
I have never been opposed to the game changing. I only think it is changing for the worse. I have stated many times, in this thread, and others, about how I would fix many of these problems. Your hatred for those with a dissenting opinion really does cloud your judgement.
PS: I could find a group, done it for years. Hell, I've done Vet Maz, and Vet COS with pugs. I like pugging. I just stopped wanting to do the content. As much as you hate it, not everyone thinks alike, and goes along with what you want. Learn to expect and tollerate those of a differing viewpoint, instead of trying to rant them into submission.
Now if you'll excuse me, the fun I've been having in Fallout 4, For Honor, and AC Syndicate calls to me.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 27, 2017 4:34AM6 -
Riga_Mortis✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
Not cool, guy... Totally not cool... Plus, it's not just him who have major issues with this. Take a glance through this thread alone, and see how many people have either cancelled their Morrowind pre-orders. Or are undecided upon whether or not they should bother continuing.
And for the record, it's not just the 'casuals' either with said feelings... A good 4 or 5 people in 1 of the guilds I farm VMoL with are in the same boat of being unsure of whether or not they'll stick around with Morrowind due to these changes.
Last sentence is exactly like a guild chat we had a few days ago, dont know how many we might lose but its a damn shame all round.XBOX 1X
GT - TAGNUTZ5 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
Not cool, guy... Totally not cool... Plus, it's not just him who have major issues with this. Take a glance through this thread alone, and see how many people have either cancelled their Morrowind pre-orders. Or are undecided upon whether or not they should bother continuing.
And for the record, it's not just the 'casuals' either with said feelings... A good 4 or 5 people in 1 of the guilds I farm VMoL with are in the same boat of being unsure of whether or not they'll stick around with Morrowind due to these changes.
First of all those same guys from the beginning of this thread have been threatening they will quit unless u do this they will quit unless u do that. The game will die. The game will not survive. Provided false information to back up their arguments insulted anyone who disagree with them. Nice way to make an argument, but yeah im the one who is not cool. Sorry for not being cool with trolls threatening that they will quit and the game will die. Funniest thing is that most of them will not even quit. They just think that this change will be game breaking cause they wont be able to do anything anymore but they''ll get used to it and still play. Then the next patch comes another change will be implemented and back from the beginning. I quit threads everywhere. Thats not how you make an argument.
I literally said that the elites are those who will get hit by that change so im not sure what ur point is by telling me that elites are also complaining. Please read before replying with things like that. I never said this change wont impact anyone. It will hit the elites mostly not the casuals. In case you havent noticed every single person here complaining about this change is either because of vMOL and how hard it is or with vCOS and vROM cause they cant find pug them. They ignore every other piece of content in this game, they also ignore that their actual issue is to find a good group and taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change anything at all in that aspect and they dont want this change to go through even tho its obvious that this change will do more good than bad and they also ingore the fact that people are already doing most of the content of the game without having 100 points to warlord/magician. So please feel free to explain me how this change is going to break the game cause no one actually did so far. Just remember that vMOL isnt the only content in this game.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
"Call yourself whatever you want".
Well then I guess I'll call myself 'me' then. Because I still dont fit neatly into any of your boxes.
For the record, the only thing I have ever been in favor of is a complete system rebalance. I'm not against hard content. I just dont think the current system can allow for hard content for those who want it. It is so limited, both by it's design and by it's inability to utilize most of itself, hence the extremely rigid meta, that I see SOTH dungeons as everything -wrong- with the system, rather than the best of it. Extremely high requirements needing the best in slot gear and best minmax tactics to beat, only achieveable by the higher echalons.
I have never been opposed to the game changing. I only think it is changing for the worse. I have stated many times, in this thread, and others, about how I would fix many of these problems. Your hatred for those with a dissenting opinion really does cloud your judgement.
PS: I could find a group, done it for years. Hell, I've done Vet Maz, and Vet COS with pugs. I like pugging. I just stopped wanting to do the content. As much as you hate it, not everyone thinks alike, and goes along with what you want. Learn to expect and tollerate those of a differing viewpoint, instead of trying to rant them into submission.
Now if you'll excuse me, the fun I've been having in Fallout 4, For Honor, and AC Syndicate calls to me.
SOTH dungeons do not require BiS gear and do not require BiS rotations etc. You are 100% off target here. SOTH dungeons require teamwork, good groups and knowing the mechanics and tactics. You dont need 50k DPS to do them. This is why is so hard to pug them. Taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change that. With all due respect but those are the hardest dungeons in the game. They should be difficult. If you want to do them find a PVE guild. What exactly do u want. All dungeons to be Fungal grotto difficulty because people cba to find a guild? seriously?
How ironic talking about tolerating other people while asking for the game to be balanced around ur personal playstyle.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
But thats exactly what they are tying to do. They want to nerf the top.This is just speculation but I imagine cost reduction is being removed from CP system in order to promote using different armor types for cost reduction.
Wouldn't surprise me if they ended up buffing cost reduction passives that medium and light armor provides.
If this is the case its a really smart move. Pve wise sustain wouldn't really change as far as reducing ability costs. At the same time, in PvP it would provide more incentive to not use heavy armor.
When the masses complain on the forums ZOS listens, believe it or not. I really think this is their attempt to balance heavy armor in PvP while not making things way worse for pve.
Could be wrong though.
It's a smart move only if they buff those passives, making medium and light armor on par with heavy in pvp, but from what i understand they just wanna nerf sustain.
Oh, and it would also close the gap between cp 160 and 600 cp players without nerfing the top.
By removing those cp they are nerfing everyone, it's just stupid.
They should not remove those cp.
Also homogenization is not very clever, they should not nerf the top because of the bottom, and they should definitely not nerf every player.
The nerf doesnt hit everyone the same way. What exactly do u not understand? Do you actually believe that people need that cost reduction to do fungal grotto and banished cells? Are you for real now? Some people are not cp capped and yet they are still doing most of the content, some people do not have optimal cp allocation and yet they are still doing most of the content. The casuals do not need that cost reduction for the content they do.
And yes they should absolutely lower the ceiling. Its kinda laughable how everyone was bitching once upon a time about how easy the PVE content was and now that ZOS makes it harder, you started bitching about content being too hard. Its the hardest content of the game. Its suppose to be hard. Mechanics were made to be faced not skipped. The game is changing every patch. Its not gonna stay the same. Either adapt to it like everyone else did and will do or just quit.
LOL you might not like that outcome with that line of thinking as when you balance the game around such a small group of elitist pricks those games have and WILL die.
We'll most definitely see I assure you
Wut? Can you even read? I said this change is a nerf to elitists not the casuals.
This game was designed with resource management in mind. This got lost with CP and they are trying to bring it back which is good for the game in general. And you are just here bitching because 1% of the game's content will be harder to complete. How about u ask for a trial nerf instead?
Anw bottom line is that the game changes every patch. You will not always like the changes. And if u actually believe that the game will die in morrowind then u are delusional. The game survived game breaking mechanics and bugs. It will survive now too. Either adapt like everyone else or quit. We wont miss you.
Elitests? You mean the people with the best group support in the game? Do you even do trials? Holy hell lol. Yeah cuz this totally wont punish groups that cant get healers to throw shards and will totslly nerf high support groups.
Yes those people. You know those that squeeze every ounce of performace out of their builds and they are playing their builds to the limits. You know those with the perfect CP allocation etc. Thats where it is going to hit. Any kind of nerf on something that cant get better its obvious that its going to make it worse. And when im saying hit it doesnt mean its gonna break the game. Learn the difference. A casual that doesnt even have 100 points into warlord or magician in the first place or doesnt have BiS gear or doesnt run the content that actually requires all that wont feel as much the change. They have room for improvement either with getting more CP, making a better allocation or get better gear and a better rotation ( assuming they want to run vTrials). Do u get it now or want me to explain it again?0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
Not cool, guy... Totally not cool... Plus, it's not just him who have major issues with this. Take a glance through this thread alone, and see how many people have either cancelled their Morrowind pre-orders. Or are undecided upon whether or not they should bother continuing.
And for the record, it's not just the 'casuals' either with said feelings... A good 4 or 5 people in 1 of the guilds I farm VMoL with are in the same boat of being unsure of whether or not they'll stick around with Morrowind due to these changes.
First of all those same guys from the beginning of this thread have been threatening they will quit unless u do this they will quit unless u do that. The game will die. The game will not survive. Provided false information to back up their arguments insulted anyone who disagree with them. Nice way to make an argument, but yeah im the one who is not cool. Sorry for not being cool with trolls threatening that they will quit and the game will die. Funniest thing is that most of them will not even quit. They just think that this change will be game breaking cause they wont be able to do anything anymore but they''ll get used to it and still play. Then the next patch comes another change will be implemented and back from the beginning. I quit threads everywhere. Thats not how you make an argument.
I literally said that the elites are those who will get hit by that change so im not sure what ur point is by telling me that elites are also complaining. Please read before replying with things like that. I never said this change wont impact anyone. It will hit the elites mostly not the casuals. In case you havent noticed every single person here complaining about this change is either because of vMOL and how hard it is or with vCOS and vROM cause they cant find pug them. They ignore every other piece of content in this game, they also ignore that their actual issue is to find a good group and taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change anything at all in that aspect and they dont want this change to go through even tho its obvious that this change will do more good than bad and they also ingore the fact that people are already doing most of the content of the game without having 100 points to warlord/magician. So please feel free to explain me how this change is going to break the game cause no one actually did so far. Just remember that vMOL isnt the only content in this game.
Couple of things:
- I said it wasn't cool, because you said the guy was bitching. That wasn't needed, bruh. And honestly, while I'm aware that tensions are pretty high in this thread — there's no need for the rudeness. No reason at all, fam'. We can get our points across, without the added hostility. I promise you that we can.
- I'm aware that there is more to ESO than VMoL and VMA. However, you have to be aware of the fact that there's people still interested in reaching that level of content. Even if they are 'casual', and only quest for the time being. They have ambitions to get that content done, you know? And how're they supposed to get it done, when all these harsh changes are coming their way? Especially when they couldn't get the content done now.6 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
While the change will directly hurt hardcore players the most, they're also the people who are best equipped to adapt to change. So while their builds will be worse off at 600 CP than someone else at 300 CP, they might actually have an entire gear extra set just sitting around that they can throw in instead.Ep1kMalware wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
But thats exactly what they are tying to do. They want to nerf the top.This is just speculation but I imagine cost reduction is being removed from CP system in order to promote using different armor types for cost reduction.
Wouldn't surprise me if they ended up buffing cost reduction passives that medium and light armor provides.
If this is the case its a really smart move. Pve wise sustain wouldn't really change as far as reducing ability costs. At the same time, in PvP it would provide more incentive to not use heavy armor.
When the masses complain on the forums ZOS listens, believe it or not. I really think this is their attempt to balance heavy armor in PvP while not making things way worse for pve.
Could be wrong though.
It's a smart move only if they buff those passives, making medium and light armor on par with heavy in pvp, but from what i understand they just wanna nerf sustain.
Oh, and it would also close the gap between cp 160 and 600 cp players without nerfing the top.
By removing those cp they are nerfing everyone, it's just stupid.
They should not remove those cp.
Also homogenization is not very clever, they should not nerf the top because of the bottom, and they should definitely not nerf every player.
The nerf doesnt hit everyone the same way. What exactly do u not understand? Do you actually believe that people need that cost reduction to do fungal grotto and banished cells? Are you for real now? Some people are not cp capped and yet they are still doing most of the content, some people do not have optimal cp allocation and yet they are still doing most of the content. The casuals do not need that cost reduction for the content they do.
And yes they should absolutely lower the ceiling. Its kinda laughable how everyone was bitching once upon a time about how easy the PVE content was and now that ZOS makes it harder, you started bitching about content being too hard. Its the hardest content of the game. Its suppose to be hard. Mechanics were made to be faced not skipped. The game is changing every patch. Its not gonna stay the same. Either adapt to it like everyone else did and will do or just quit.
LOL you might not like that outcome with that line of thinking as when you balance the game around such a small group of elitist pricks those games have and WILL die.
We'll most definitely see I assure you
Wut? Can you even read? I said this change is a nerf to elitists not the casuals.
This game was designed with resource management in mind. This got lost with CP and they are trying to bring it back which is good for the game in general. And you are just here bitching because 1% of the game's content will be harder to complete. How about u ask for a trial nerf instead?
Anw bottom line is that the game changes every patch. You will not always like the changes. And if u actually believe that the game will die in morrowind then u are delusional. The game survived game breaking mechanics and bugs. It will survive now too. Either adapt like everyone else or quit. We wont miss you.
Elitests? You mean the people with the best group support in the game? Do you even do trials? Holy hell lol. Yeah cuz this totally wont punish groups that cant get healers to throw shards and will totslly nerf high support groups.
Yes those people. You know those that squeeze every ounce of performace out of their builds and they are playing their builds to the limits. You know those with the perfect CP allocation etc. Thats where it is going to hit. Any kind of nerf on something that cant get better its obvious that its going to make it worse. And when im saying hit it doesnt mean its gonna break the game. Learn the difference. A casual that doesnt even have 100 points into warlord or magician in the first place or doesnt have BiS gear or doesnt run the content that actually requires all that wont feel as much the change. They have room for improvement either with getting more CP, making a better allocation or get better gear and a better rotation ( assuming they want to run vTrials). Do u get it now or want me to explain it again?
Meanwhile, the CP 300 players who are just getting to the point where they're ready for IC and SOTH dungeons will find that they have a substantial amount of grinding ahead of them, just to make up for the power they lost overnight. No, their builds won't directly lose as much power from the change, but they will have a much harder time making up for it than the players who the change was designed to affect hardest, meaning that the middle-of-the-road players will feel the impact of the change for the longest.Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade6 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »If some people feel like quitting just because it will make them feel weaker well good for them but dont expect everyone to follow them. Thats like saying people quit their jobs whenever they have a setback. Sry but thats not how it works. The game survived bigger changes. It will survive now too. And out of all the changes that happened to this game, if u actually believe that it will die now with morrowind coming then man, u really dont know how many elder scrolls fanboys are out there. The casual player base will be actually bigger. Not smaller.
Usually people need to work to live, even if their job sucks or if they have setbacks.
Then they go home and play video games exactly to escape the sucky reality, the sucky job, the setbacks. They pay to escape that.
That should hint at the tiny difference, between being forced to work anyway, and having to endure the sucks with something you pay to experience a virtual, better life.
Ok then. My bad. That wasnt a good analogy. That still doesnt change my point. The game will not die. It survived launch when it was a horrible game. People wont quit because this change wont have a huge impact for most people. I mean come on now. A new class, new trial, battlegrounds and morrowind. With all that coming and you actually believe that people will quit for a nerf to sustain that wont even have an impact for most of the content. Seriously?
...Wont have a huge impact? BWAHA.
As for 'wont die', depends on how you wanna define 'dead'. A large influx of players leaving and the company never recovering is what saw the buy to play change. (I refuse to use free to play. It's not.)
No it wont have a huge impact. Casuals are not the people that do the content which requires BiS gear and groups. If you go in a random vet dungeon its not going to be the end of the world. You dont need 50k DPS to do the stupid dungeons. I do both PVE and PVP and i dont even bother to change my mundus when im doing pledges because i dont have to. Sorry to break it to you but no it wont have huge impact. The game will not die. If you feel like quitting well bye bye, we wont miss you. But dont expect the game to die with you leaving. The game survived worse. It will survive your absence too. Actually i highly doubt that you will leave anw. Trolls threatening that they will quit over the most stupid changes but never actually leaving have always been a thing. Nothing new here.
Yah, as I have stated before I am far from elite when it comes to pve. I am simply competent when it comes to the mechanics of the game. When I can walk into vet dungeons solo with my.pvp gear and breeze through content because of the ridiculousNess that is cp there is a problem. I'm talking no sustain issues what so ever without running any sustain sets. I'm talking as about vd/heavy alchemist combo with sword and board and I can just walk from PvP to pve vet dungeons and solo them. What is that??? I'm not saying everyone can do it. But it does not take more then a competent player who knows the mechanics of the combat system to have no issue.this is just one example and far from a collective sample. I understand that. I'm just pro icing one example is all.
Don't spout nonsense to prove a point. It's not necessary to make such ridiculous claims. Average players don't solo vet dungeons, especially without gearing correctly and it's no cakewalk regardless.
What nonsense???
Are you saying you don't believe me? I'm confused.
See @JinMori this is what I mean. This is the kind of comment that drivessels me crazy. It doesn't disagree with me, just seemingly says no I'm wrong and make ridiculous claims. Despite me saying I understand not everyone can do it. Despite me saying I understand this is just one instance etc. I still get this. This is what drives me crazy. It is not I understand what your saying and I disagree with you on why it should not be implemented for x reasons. No
Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. You don't solo vet dungeons with ease as a "non-elite" in PvP gear and the wrong mundus. You added nothing to the conversation with your lie. Just, "the change is ok because I'm not that great and I can solo vet dungeons with ease in bad gear." No, you can't. I accept your view about the changes, you don't need to make false and grandiose claims to support this view.
far from false but okay believe what you will i cant control that.
I eagerly await your YouTube video series showcasing your non elite talents. With non elite level skill, and the wrong gear/mundus set up, you're doing what the best players cannot, and with ease! Truly inspirational, can't wait to watch.
perhaps you should inquire more about the situation rather than calling me a liar.
Did you see anywhere in there that I said I was running through cradle with that setup solo. Did you see me saying that I was soloing WGT or ICP with that setup. no. I simply generalized vet dungeons for the sake of time. Im talking about FG, BC, Sewers, an maybe one or two others. Far from the hard content for vet dungeons. Ofcourse I wont be running through the crazy stuff with that. Im just saying that you can on many of them. Throw on swoard and board and resto staff and call it a day.
It really does not bother me that you dont believe me. I could care less.
So now it is my job to assume you generalized and inquire further? Sorry pal, you said soloed vet dungeons with ease in PvP gear and the wrong mundus. Now it's a handful of the easy one's and a specific setup. So am I to assume now that your overall point was that the cp change is a good thing or ok, based on the fact that a handful of easy vet dungeons are soloable by certain people using a certain setup?
no it is not your job to assume. I apologize for that. I just had my coffee haha. That is on me.
My point is that i can take a pvp setup into multiple vet dungeons and solo them and have no problem with sustain. Thus, this is simply ONE example as to why I would like to see the change instituted.
No, sorry but that's 100 % untrue, you can't solo vet dungeons with a pvp setup. It's 100 % impossible.
To solo a dungeon you need sustained dps, not burst.
The fact that there are some similarities doesn't make it identical.
You need self healing in pvp, you need it for soloing dungeon, you need sustain to solo dungeons, but it's not the same as pvp, if you were to run heavy armor you wouldn't do enough damage to kill bosses, and you probably would go out of resources since you don't have as much cost reduction.
Even pvp and pve builds have many similarities.
For example a templar run puncturing in both pvp and pve, channeled focus is used in both pvp and pve, purifing light, same story, does that make it identical? NoEldritchPenguin wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »If some people feel like quitting just because it will make them feel weaker well good for them but dont expect everyone to follow them. Thats like saying people quit their jobs whenever they have a setback. Sry but thats not how it works. The game survived bigger changes. It will survive now too. And out of all the changes that happened to this game, if u actually believe that it will die now with morrowind coming then man, u really dont know how many elder scrolls fanboys are out there. The casual player base will be actually bigger. Not smaller.
Usually people need to work to live, even if their job sucks or if they have setbacks.
Then they go home and play video games exactly to escape the sucky reality, the sucky job, the setbacks. They pay to escape that.
That should hint at the tiny difference, between being forced to work anyway, and having to endure the sucks with something you pay to experience a virtual, better life.
Ok then. My bad. That wasnt a good analogy. That still doesnt change my point. The game will not die. It survived launch when it was a horrible game. People wont quit because this change wont have a huge impact for most people. I mean come on now. A new class, new trial, battlegrounds and morrowind. With all that coming and you actually believe that people will quit for a nerf to sustain that wont even have an impact for most of the content. Seriously?
...Wont have a huge impact? BWAHA.
As for 'wont die', depends on how you wanna define 'dead'. A large influx of players leaving and the company never recovering is what saw the buy to play change. (I refuse to use free to play. It's not.)
No it wont have a huge impact. Casuals are not the people that do the content which requires BiS gear and groups. If you go in a random vet dungeon its not going to be the end of the world. You dont need 50k DPS to do the stupid dungeons. I do both PVE and PVP and i dont even bother to change my mundus when im doing pledges because i dont have to. Sorry to break it to you but no it wont have huge impact. The game will not die. If you feel like quitting well bye bye, we wont miss you. But dont expect the game to die with you leaving. The game survived worse. It will survive your absence too. Actually i highly doubt that you will leave anw. Trolls threatening that they will quit over the most stupid changes but never actually leaving have always been a thing. Nothing new here.
Yah, as I have stated before I am far from elite when it comes to pve. I am simply competent when it comes to the mechanics of the game. When I can walk into vet dungeons solo with my.pvp gear and breeze through content because of the ridiculousNess that is cp there is a problem. I'm talking no sustain issues what so ever without running any sustain sets. I'm talking as about vd/heavy alchemist combo with sword and board and I can just walk from PvP to pve vet dungeons and solo them. What is that??? I'm not saying everyone can do it. But it does not take more then a competent player who knows the mechanics of the combat system to have no issue.this is just one example and far from a collective sample. I understand that. I'm just pro icing one example is all.
Don't spout nonsense to prove a point. It's not necessary to make such ridiculous claims. Average players don't solo vet dungeons, especially without gearing correctly and it's no cakewalk regardless.
What nonsense???
Are you saying you don't believe me? I'm confused.
See @JinMori this is what I mean. This is the kind of comment that drivessels me crazy. It doesn't disagree with me, just seemingly says no I'm wrong and make ridiculous claims. Despite me saying I understand not everyone can do it. Despite me saying I understand this is just one instance etc. I still get this. This is what drives me crazy. It is not I understand what your saying and I disagree with you on why it should not be implemented for x reasons. No
Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. You don't solo vet dungeons with ease as a "non-elite" in PvP gear and the wrong mundus. You added nothing to the conversation with your lie. Just, "the change is ok because I'm not that great and I can solo vet dungeons with ease in bad gear." No, you can't. I accept your view about the changes, you don't need to make false and grandiose claims to support this view.
far from false but okay believe what you will i cant control that.
I eagerly await your YouTube video series showcasing your non elite talents. With non elite level skill, and the wrong gear/mundus set up, you're doing what the best players cannot, and with ease! Truly inspirational, can't wait to watch.
perhaps you should inquire more about the situation rather than calling me a liar.
Did you see anywhere in there that I said I was running through cradle with that setup solo. Did you see me saying that I was soloing WGT or ICP with that setup. no. I simply generalized vet dungeons for the sake of time. Im talking about FG, BC, Sewers, an maybe one or two others. Far from the hard content for vet dungeons. Ofcourse I wont be running through the crazy stuff with that. Im just saying that you can on many of them. Throw on swoard and board and resto staff and call it a day.
It really does not bother me that you dont believe me. I could care less.
So now it is my job to assume you generalized and inquire further? Sorry pal, you said soloed vet dungeons with ease in PvP gear and the wrong mundus. Now it's a handful of the easy one's and a specific setup. So am I to assume now that your overall point was that the cp change is a good thing or ok, based on the fact that a handful of easy vet dungeons are soloable by certain people using a certain setup?
no it is not your job to assume. I apologize for that. I just had my coffee haha. That is on me.
My point is that i can take a pvp setup into multiple vet dungeons and solo them and have no problem with sustain. Thus, this is simply ONE example asEldritchPenguin wrote: »
While the change will directly hurt hardcore players the most, they're also the people who are best equipped to adapt to change. So while their builds will be worse off at 600 CP than someone else at 300 CP, they might actually have an entire gear extra set just sitting around that they can throw in instead.Ep1kMalware wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
But thats exactly what they are tying to do. They want to nerf the top.This is just speculation but I imagine cost reduction is being removed from CP system in order to promote using different armor types for cost reduction.
Wouldn't surprise me if they ended up buffing cost reduction passives that medium and light armor provides.
If this is the case its a really smart move. Pve wise sustain wouldn't really change as far as reducing ability costs. At the same time, in PvP it would provide more incentive to not use heavy armor.
When the masses complain on the forums ZOS listens, believe it or not. I really think this is their attempt to balance heavy armor in PvP while not making things way worse for pve.
Could be wrong though.
It's a smart move only if they buff those passives, making medium and light armor on par with heavy in pvp, but from what i understand they just wanna nerf sustain.
Oh, and it would also close the gap between cp 160 and 600 cp players without nerfing the top.
By removing those cp they are nerfing everyone, it's just stupid.
They should not remove those cp.
Also homogenization is not very clever, they should not nerf the top because of the bottom, and they should definitely not nerf every player.
The nerf doesnt hit everyone the same way. What exactly do u not understand? Do you actually believe that people need that cost reduction to do fungal grotto and banished cells? Are you for real now? Some people are not cp capped and yet they are still doing most of the content, some people do not have optimal cp allocation and yet they are still doing most of the content. The casuals do not need that cost reduction for the content they do.
And yes they should absolutely lower the ceiling. Its kinda laughable how everyone was bitching once upon a time about how easy the PVE content was and now that ZOS makes it harder, you started bitching about content being too hard. Its the hardest content of the game. Its suppose to be hard. Mechanics were made to be faced not skipped. The game is changing every patch. Its not gonna stay the same. Either adapt to it like everyone else did and will do or just quit.
LOL you might not like that outcome with that line of thinking as when you balance the game around such a small group of elitist pricks those games have and WILL die.
We'll most definitely see I assure you
Wut? Can you even read? I said this change is a nerf to elitists not the casuals.
This game was designed with resource management in mind. This got lost with CP and they are trying to bring it back which is good for the game in general. And you are just here bitching because 1% of the game's content will be harder to complete. How about u ask for a trial nerf instead?
Anw bottom line is that the game changes every patch. You will not always like the changes. And if u actually believe that the game will die in morrowind then u are delusional. The game survived game breaking mechanics and bugs. It will survive now too. Either adapt like everyone else or quit. We wont miss you.
Elitests? You mean the people with the best group support in the game? Do you even do trials? Holy hell lol. Yeah cuz this totally wont punish groups that cant get healers to throw shards and will totslly nerf high support groups.
Yes those people. You know those that squeeze every ounce of performace out of their builds and they are playing their builds to the limits. You know those with the perfect CP allocation etc. Thats where it is going to hit. Any kind of nerf on something that cant get better its obvious that its going to make it worse. And when im saying hit it doesnt mean its gonna break the game. Learn the difference. A casual that doesnt even have 100 points into warlord or magician in the first place or doesnt have BiS gear or doesnt run the content that actually requires all that wont feel as much the change. They have room for improvement either with getting more CP, making a better allocation or get better gear and a better rotation ( assuming they want to run vTrials). Do u get it now or want me to explain it again?
Meanwhile, the CP 300 players who are just getting to the point where they're ready for IC and SOTH dungeons will find that they have a substantial amount of grinding ahead of them, just to make up for the power they lost overnight. No, their builds won't directly lose as much power from the change, but they will have a much harder time making up for it than the players who the change was designed to affect hardest, meaning that the middle-of-the-road players will feel the impact of the change for the longest.
This 1000%
Middle of the pack players will struggle the most as they'll only have 15% recovery as opposed to an option between cost reduction and recovery, combined with less damage than max cp players.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
Not cool, guy... Totally not cool... Plus, it's not just him who have major issues with this. Take a glance through this thread alone, and see how many people have either cancelled their Morrowind pre-orders. Or are undecided upon whether or not they should bother continuing.
And for the record, it's not just the 'casuals' either with said feelings... A good 4 or 5 people in 1 of the guilds I farm VMoL with are in the same boat of being unsure of whether or not they'll stick around with Morrowind due to these changes.
First of all those same guys from the beginning of this thread have been threatening they will quit unless u do this they will quit unless u do that. The game will die. The game will not survive. Provided false information to back up their arguments insulted anyone who disagree with them. Nice way to make an argument, but yeah im the one who is not cool. Sorry for not being cool with trolls threatening that they will quit and the game will die. Funniest thing is that most of them will not even quit. They just think that this change will be game breaking cause they wont be able to do anything anymore but they''ll get used to it and still play. Then the next patch comes another change will be implemented and back from the beginning. I quit threads everywhere. Thats not how you make an argument.
I literally said that the elites are those who will get hit by that change so im not sure what ur point is by telling me that elites are also complaining. Please read before replying with things like that. I never said this change wont impact anyone. It will hit the elites mostly not the casuals. In case you havent noticed every single person here complaining about this change is either because of vMOL and how hard it is or with vCOS and vROM cause they cant find pug them. They ignore every other piece of content in this game, they also ignore that their actual issue is to find a good group and taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change anything at all in that aspect and they dont want this change to go through even tho its obvious that this change will do more good than bad and they also ingore the fact that people are already doing most of the content of the game without having 100 points to warlord/magician. So please feel free to explain me how this change is going to break the game cause no one actually did so far. Just remember that vMOL isnt the only content in this game.
Couple of things:
- I said it wasn't cool, because you said the guy was bitching. That wasn't needed, bruh. And honestly, while I'm aware that tensions are pretty high in this thread — there's no need for the rudeness. No reason at all, fam'. We can get our points across, without the added hostility. I promise you that we can.
- I'm aware that there is more to ESO than VMoL and VMA. However, you have to be aware of the fact that there's people still interested in reaching that level of content. Even if they are 'casual', and only quest for the time being. They have ambitions to get that content done, you know? And how're they supposed to get it done, when all these harsh changes are coming their way? Especially when they couldn't get the content done now.
There is no need for rudeness goes both ways buddy. Not whenever it suits you. When u start an argument with i quit and game will die then what exactly do u expect? No please dont leave answers? If they dont like the game then they can leave. But no, when they come here with threats and warnings and false information then they are going to get back something similar. So dont lecture me about not being polite and crap like that.
If vMOL is too difficult ask for the damn trial to be nerfed. The rest of the content isnt like vMOL. Saying that u need that cost reduction and BiS gear for dungeons and not having that cost reduction is gonna make it impossible is just flat out wrong. Casuals do not have BiS gear rotations etc. Which means they have room for improvement if they want to do harder content. And if they want to do harder content then they should get into guilds to get good groups. Are you seriously saying that every piece of content should be like fungal grotto because people dont want to be bothered with getting into good groups? Seriously? And you think this is good?
They say how the game shouldnt be balanced around the elites and that they should also think about the casuals and tolerate other people but at the same they demand for the entire game to be balanced around their personal playstyle without giving a damn about all the other players in the game. Way to go man.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
While the change will directly hurt hardcore players the most, they're also the people who are best equipped to adapt to change. So while their builds will be worse off at 600 CP than someone else at 300 CP, they might actually have an entire gear extra set just sitting around that they can throw in instead.Ep1kMalware wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
But thats exactly what they are tying to do. They want to nerf the top.This is just speculation but I imagine cost reduction is being removed from CP system in order to promote using different armor types for cost reduction.
Wouldn't surprise me if they ended up buffing cost reduction passives that medium and light armor provides.
If this is the case its a really smart move. Pve wise sustain wouldn't really change as far as reducing ability costs. At the same time, in PvP it would provide more incentive to not use heavy armor.
When the masses complain on the forums ZOS listens, believe it or not. I really think this is their attempt to balance heavy armor in PvP while not making things way worse for pve.
Could be wrong though.
It's a smart move only if they buff those passives, making medium and light armor on par with heavy in pvp, but from what i understand they just wanna nerf sustain.
Oh, and it would also close the gap between cp 160 and 600 cp players without nerfing the top.
By removing those cp they are nerfing everyone, it's just stupid.
They should not remove those cp.
Also homogenization is not very clever, they should not nerf the top because of the bottom, and they should definitely not nerf every player.
The nerf doesnt hit everyone the same way. What exactly do u not understand? Do you actually believe that people need that cost reduction to do fungal grotto and banished cells? Are you for real now? Some people are not cp capped and yet they are still doing most of the content, some people do not have optimal cp allocation and yet they are still doing most of the content. The casuals do not need that cost reduction for the content they do.
And yes they should absolutely lower the ceiling. Its kinda laughable how everyone was bitching once upon a time about how easy the PVE content was and now that ZOS makes it harder, you started bitching about content being too hard. Its the hardest content of the game. Its suppose to be hard. Mechanics were made to be faced not skipped. The game is changing every patch. Its not gonna stay the same. Either adapt to it like everyone else did and will do or just quit.
LOL you might not like that outcome with that line of thinking as when you balance the game around such a small group of elitist pricks those games have and WILL die.
We'll most definitely see I assure you
Wut? Can you even read? I said this change is a nerf to elitists not the casuals.
This game was designed with resource management in mind. This got lost with CP and they are trying to bring it back which is good for the game in general. And you are just here bitching because 1% of the game's content will be harder to complete. How about u ask for a trial nerf instead?
Anw bottom line is that the game changes every patch. You will not always like the changes. And if u actually believe that the game will die in morrowind then u are delusional. The game survived game breaking mechanics and bugs. It will survive now too. Either adapt like everyone else or quit. We wont miss you.
Elitests? You mean the people with the best group support in the game? Do you even do trials? Holy hell lol. Yeah cuz this totally wont punish groups that cant get healers to throw shards and will totslly nerf high support groups.
Yes those people. You know those that squeeze every ounce of performace out of their builds and they are playing their builds to the limits. You know those with the perfect CP allocation etc. Thats where it is going to hit. Any kind of nerf on something that cant get better its obvious that its going to make it worse. And when im saying hit it doesnt mean its gonna break the game. Learn the difference. A casual that doesnt even have 100 points into warlord or magician in the first place or doesnt have BiS gear or doesnt run the content that actually requires all that wont feel as much the change. They have room for improvement either with getting more CP, making a better allocation or get better gear and a better rotation ( assuming they want to run vTrials). Do u get it now or want me to explain it again?
Meanwhile, the CP 300 players who are just getting to the point where they're ready for IC and SOTH dungeons will find that they have a substantial amount of grinding ahead of them, just to make up for the power they lost overnight. No, their builds won't directly lose as much power from the change, but they will have a much harder time making up for it than the players who the change was designed to affect hardest, meaning that the middle-of-the-road players will feel the impact of the change for the longest.
I know they are the most suited to adapt to the changes. That doesnt change the fact that this change hits them and not really the casuals. You said it urself. "Someone else at 300CP". Someone at 300 CP doesnt have 100 CP to magician. Someone at 300 CP doesnt use the CP to its full potential. How can u possibly feel a nerf by taking away something that u already dont have. This is just one example. Then there is gear, rotations etc. Which means that they can actually completely negate the nerf by becoming better. Also, casuals do not really run the hardest content of the game. They run content that doesnt require that cost reduction in the first place.0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I have 4% cost reduction and 10% mag rec from CP and I have never gone oom in a vDung.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
"Call yourself whatever you want".
Well then I guess I'll call myself 'me' then. Because I still dont fit neatly into any of your boxes.
For the record, the only thing I have ever been in favor of is a complete system rebalance. I'm not against hard content. I just dont think the current system can allow for hard content for those who want it. It is so limited, both by it's design and by it's inability to utilize most of itself, hence the extremely rigid meta, that I see SOTH dungeons as everything -wrong- with the system, rather than the best of it. Extremely high requirements needing the best in slot gear and best minmax tactics to beat, only achieveable by the higher echalons.
I have never been opposed to the game changing. I only think it is changing for the worse. I have stated many times, in this thread, and others, about how I would fix many of these problems. Your hatred for those with a dissenting opinion really does cloud your judgement.
PS: I could find a group, done it for years. Hell, I've done Vet Maz, and Vet COS with pugs. I like pugging. I just stopped wanting to do the content. As much as you hate it, not everyone thinks alike, and goes along with what you want. Learn to expect and tollerate those of a differing viewpoint, instead of trying to rant them into submission.
Now if you'll excuse me, the fun I've been having in Fallout 4, For Honor, and AC Syndicate calls to me.
SOTH dungeons do not require BiS gear and do not require BiS rotations etc. You are 100% off target here. SOTH dungeons require teamwork, good groups and knowing the mechanics and tactics. You dont need 50k DPS to do them. This is why is so hard to pug them. Taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change that. With all due respect but those are the hardest dungeons in the game. They should be difficult. If you want to do them find a PVE guild. What exactly do u want. All dungeons to be Fungal grotto difficulty because people cba to find a guild? seriously?
How ironic talking about tolerating other people while asking for the game to be balanced around ur personal playstyle.
Not everyone is you, and not everyone is trying to make the game revolve around them.
And what I want, is for the game to completely overhaul itself, so that the content is less dependant on puting together the meta rotation of the month, but mastering class mechanics and then mastering fight mechanics.
You know. Like any other decent MMO on the planet. Your of course going to cry "STOP TRYING TO HEMOGENIZE THIS MMO" but really, it wasn't that good to begin with. I've played the hardest content in other MMO's I've played. I played it on the merit of sheer skill. I've mastered it. The difference between this MMO, and those MMO's, is the skill system.
The more options you give to the player, to the point of having a system like this, or Secret world, is that eventually, it becomes about exploitation. Not class mechanics, not any mechanics. It's about circumventing the system. And that is what this game has become.
Worse still, is ZOS has created the need for it. And it wont stop. They'll likely continue to make DPS even more of a factor, and cut our ability to do it because 'lawl they want content to be hard', reguardless of the greater nuance in the community.
By the way. I've never had a PVE guild. Why? I never wanted one. I like pugging. I like rolling the dice, and most of all, I like the sense of achievement it gives me. "Get a guild"? I'd rather get a new game, because any game where I need a raid group for anything outside of raids, or a comparable set of trained people, that says to me the game is floundering because, like SWTOR and so many others before, they are appealing to the 1%, and seting themselves on fire in the process.
You've taken to strawmanning and hate-mongering against near every single person to even dare to present a differing opinion or arguement to you. Your current course is not sustainable. Much like this games.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 27, 2017 3:21PM7 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭The issue i believe what the devs WANT is not more built in passive regen through sets and enchantments. From the way it sounds to me they want to force us into using fully charged heavy attacks. My only issue with this is that currently the magick/ stamina regen through heavies is REALLY low. Especially in the time it takes to charge one. Now i run in PvP a resto staff and lightning staff as a magplar sweeper. (Which by the way i JUST found out that lightning staff increases puncturing sweeps damage! I know im late AF). I am also slowly taking regen off, i have 100 in tenacity and 50 in cost reduction. Within the next week after getting used to heavy attacking more ill be taking all points out of cost redux. So far its not bad, but 2 seconds of heavy attacking equals about 1 skill i can fire off now. After two heavies its about three skills. I get 3600 magick back per heavy. I think they should just increase heavy attack regen across the board.
Now i know in pve this is not really a great choice, so youll have to dcide whether you want to lose dps through heavies or lose dps through enchants/ gear. I like the heavies personally.
1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
"Call yourself whatever you want".
Well then I guess I'll call myself 'me' then. Because I still dont fit neatly into any of your boxes.
For the record, the only thing I have ever been in favor of is a complete system rebalance. I'm not against hard content. I just dont think the current system can allow for hard content for those who want it. It is so limited, both by it's design and by it's inability to utilize most of itself, hence the extremely rigid meta, that I see SOTH dungeons as everything -wrong- with the system, rather than the best of it. Extremely high requirements needing the best in slot gear and best minmax tactics to beat, only achieveable by the higher echalons.
I have never been opposed to the game changing. I only think it is changing for the worse. I have stated many times, in this thread, and others, about how I would fix many of these problems. Your hatred for those with a dissenting opinion really does cloud your judgement.
PS: I could find a group, done it for years. Hell, I've done Vet Maz, and Vet COS with pugs. I like pugging. I just stopped wanting to do the content. As much as you hate it, not everyone thinks alike, and goes along with what you want. Learn to expect and tollerate those of a differing viewpoint, instead of trying to rant them into submission.
Now if you'll excuse me, the fun I've been having in Fallout 4, For Honor, and AC Syndicate calls to me.
SOTH dungeons do not require BiS gear and do not require BiS rotations etc. You are 100% off target here. SOTH dungeons require teamwork, good groups and knowing the mechanics and tactics. You dont need 50k DPS to do them. This is why is so hard to pug them. Taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change that. With all due respect but those are the hardest dungeons in the game. They should be difficult. If you want to do them find a PVE guild. What exactly do u want. All dungeons to be Fungal grotto difficulty because people cba to find a guild? seriously?
How ironic talking about tolerating other people while asking for the game to be balanced around ur personal playstyle.
Not everyone is you, and not everyone is trying to make the game revolve around them.
And what I want, is for the game to completely overhaul itself, so that the content is less dependant on puting together the meta rotation of the month, but mastering class mechanics and then mastering fight mechanics.
You know. Like any other decent MMO on the planet. Your of course going to cry "STOP TRYING TO HEMOGENIZE THIS MMO" but really, it wasn't that good to begin with. I've played the hardest content in other MMO's I've played. I played it on the merit of sheer skill. I've mastered it. The difference between this MMO, and those MMO's, is the skill system.
The more options you give to the player, to the point of having a system like this, or Secret world, is that eventually, it becomes about exploitation. Not class mechanics, not any mechanics. It's about circumventing the system. And that is what this game has become.
Worse still, is ZOS has created the need for it. And it wont stop. They'll likely continue to make DPS even more of a factor, and cut our ability to do it because 'lawl they want content to be hard', reguardless of the greater nuance in the community.
By the way. I've never had a PVE guild. Why? I never wanted one. I like pugging. I like rolling the dice, and most of all, I like the sense of achievement it gives me. "Get a guild"? I'd rather get a new game, because any game where I need a raid group for anything outside of raids, or a comparable set of trained people, that says to me the game is floundering because, like SWTOR and so many others before, they are appealing to the 1%, and seting themselves on fire in the process.
You've taken to strawmanning and hate-mongering against near every single person to even dare to present a differing opinion or arguement to you. Your current course is not sustainable. Much like this games.
"Not everyone is you". So you dont want other people to label you but you will label others in any chance you get. Nice. In case you wonder how i play tho then i am a casual. I actually have the same issues you do. I cant run SOTH dungeons cause i cant get into groups. The difference is that i can tell the difference between hard content requiring BiS gear and hard content because the group is bad and i dont want the game to be balanced around me because i cba getting into a guild. I choose to play the way i play and i try to adapt to the game. I dont choose to play the way i play and expect the game to adapt to my playstyle.
And yes you do want to balance the game around ur personal needs. You literally said i dont want to get into a PVE guild to do the hardest content and instead i want the hardest content to be dumbed down so i can pug it. And then u talk about thinking and tolerating other people. Lol. You dont even want this game to have any type of content other than what fits ur personal playstyle and and u are talking about me being aggressive to anyone having a different opinion than me. You have to understand some things. There is content for everyone. Very easy normal dungeons, Veteran dungeons and normal trials accessible by everyone who know the basics, Hard veteran dungeons that do not require BiS gear but require good groups because of mechanics and then there is the hardest end game competitive content with leaderboards which is vet trials and requires BiS gear, teamwork etc. Now i dont do vet trials and i cant say how difficult they are so i said ask for them to get nerfed if u feel like they are unreasonably hard but you cant say that the 2 hard dungeons need to get nerfed because you cant find a group to do them. You choose to pug dungeons, and u work with what you get. There are a ton of dungeons to do that doesnt require good groups. Those 2 dungeons are supposed to be hard. If you want to do them get into a PVE guild and stop asking for everything to be dumbed down. There is even hard content that doesnt require other people and PVE guilds. Its called vMA. Run that.
You are not the only playing this game. There are people who like playing in good groups. And just like there should be content for you the same way there should be content for them. Those two dungeons are the only dungeons that provide any sort of difficulty for those people and u want to take it away from them even tho there are 10-20 other dungeons that fit ur playstyle.
Also you said you want an overhaul to the game where it becomes more skill based instead of a gear grind and DPS race but what you dont even realise is that this change is actually a step to that direction. The devs said it in the ESO live. One of the reason why the game is the way it is right now is because there is no resource management. You put on the BiS gear and push ur stats to the extreme with no drawbacks and then just do a rotation to push as high DPS as possible making everything a DPS race. Make resource management a mitigating factor for build performance. Bring the ceiling down. Class mechanics and managing ur resources becomes a factor when fighting instead of just smashing mindlessly some buttons which is exactly how the game is right now in both PVE and PVP. You are arguing against a change that aims to do the exact same thing that u want. How can you possibly expect an overhaul and at the same time be against to any sort of change to combat. And lastly, making the game like that isnt gonna make those dungeons easier to do. You will still have to get into good groups cause thats where u usually find people that know what they are doing. If you think that its hard for pugs to do those dungeons now that they have CP giving them all kinds of free stuff then what exactly do u think is going to happen when u take their crutches away and make the game skill and mechanics based?
Im done with this. You are saying so many inconsistencies. You cant even agree with urself. Quit or stick to the game. Do whatever you want. Im just gonna sit here and watch the game die in the largest patch that brings new content to literally every type of player. Im sure that this is going to happen.Edited by pieratsos on March 27, 2017 5:38PM3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
"Call yourself whatever you want".
Well then I guess I'll call myself 'me' then. Because I still dont fit neatly into any of your boxes.
For the record, the only thing I have ever been in favor of is a complete system rebalance. I'm not against hard content. I just dont think the current system can allow for hard content for those who want it. It is so limited, both by it's design and by it's inability to utilize most of itself, hence the extremely rigid meta, that I see SOTH dungeons as everything -wrong- with the system, rather than the best of it. Extremely high requirements needing the best in slot gear and best minmax tactics to beat, only achieveable by the higher echalons.
I have never been opposed to the game changing. I only think it is changing for the worse. I have stated many times, in this thread, and others, about how I would fix many of these problems. Your hatred for those with a dissenting opinion really does cloud your judgement.
PS: I could find a group, done it for years. Hell, I've done Vet Maz, and Vet COS with pugs. I like pugging. I just stopped wanting to do the content. As much as you hate it, not everyone thinks alike, and goes along with what you want. Learn to expect and tollerate those of a differing viewpoint, instead of trying to rant them into submission.
Now if you'll excuse me, the fun I've been having in Fallout 4, For Honor, and AC Syndicate calls to me.
SOTH dungeons do not require BiS gear and do not require BiS rotations etc. You are 100% off target here. SOTH dungeons require teamwork, good groups and knowing the mechanics and tactics. You dont need 50k DPS to do them. This is why is so hard to pug them. Taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change that. With all due respect but those are the hardest dungeons in the game. They should be difficult. If you want to do them find a PVE guild. What exactly do u want. All dungeons to be Fungal grotto difficulty because people cba to find a guild? seriously?
How ironic talking about tolerating other people while asking for the game to be balanced around ur personal playstyle.
Not everyone is you, and not everyone is trying to make the game revolve around them.
And what I want, is for the game to completely overhaul itself, so that the content is less dependant on puting together the meta rotation of the month, but mastering class mechanics and then mastering fight mechanics.
You know. Like any other decent MMO on the planet. Your of course going to cry "STOP TRYING TO HEMOGENIZE THIS MMO" but really, it wasn't that good to begin with. I've played the hardest content in other MMO's I've played. I played it on the merit of sheer skill. I've mastered it. The difference between this MMO, and those MMO's, is the skill system.
The more options you give to the player, to the point of having a system like this, or Secret world, is that eventually, it becomes about exploitation. Not class mechanics, not any mechanics. It's about circumventing the system. And that is what this game has become.
Worse still, is ZOS has created the need for it. And it wont stop. They'll likely continue to make DPS even more of a factor, and cut our ability to do it because 'lawl they want content to be hard', reguardless of the greater nuance in the community.
By the way. I've never had a PVE guild. Why? I never wanted one. I like pugging. I like rolling the dice, and most of all, I like the sense of achievement it gives me. "Get a guild"? I'd rather get a new game, because any game where I need a raid group for anything outside of raids, or a comparable set of trained people, that says to me the game is floundering because, like SWTOR and so many others before, they are appealing to the 1%, and seting themselves on fire in the process.
You've taken to strawmanning and hate-mongering against near every single person to even dare to present a differing opinion or arguement to you. Your current course is not sustainable. Much like this games.
"Not everyone is you". So you dont want other people to label you but you will label others in any chance you get. Nice. In case you wonder how i play tho then i am a casual. I actually have the same issues you do. I cant run SOTH dungeons cause i cant get into groups. The difference is that i can tell the difference between hard content requiring BiS gear and hard content because the group is bad and i dont want the game to be balanced around me because i cba getting into a guild. I choose to play the way i play and i try to adapt to the game. I dont choose to play the way i play and expect the game to adapt to my playstyle.
And yes you do want to balance the game around ur personal needs. You literally said i dont want to get into a PVE guild to do the hardest content and instead i want the hardest content to be dumbed down so i can pug it. And then u talk about thinking and tolerating other people. Lol. You dont even want this game to have any type of content other than what fits ur personal playstyle and and u are talking about me being aggressive to anyone having a different opinion than me. You have to understand some things. There is content for everyone. Very easy normal dungeons, Veteran dungeons and normal trials accessible by everyone who know the basics, Hard veteran dungeons that do not require BiS gear but require good groups because of mechanics and then there is the hardest end game competitive content with leaderboards which is vet trials and requires BiS gear, teamwork etc. Now i dont do vet trials and i cant say how difficult they are so i said ask for them to get nerfed if u feel like they are unreasonably hard but you cant say that the 2 hard dungeons need to get nerfed because you cant find a group to do them. You choose to pug dungeons, and u work with what you get. There are a ton of dungeons to do that doesnt require good groups. Those 2 dungeons are supposed to be hard. If you want to do them get into a PVE guild and stop asking for everything to be dumbed down. There is even hard content that doesnt require other people and PVE guilds. Its called vMA. Run that.
You are not the only playing this game. There are people who like playing in good groups. And just like there should be content for you the same way there should be content for them. Those two dungeons are the only dungeons that provide any sort of difficulty for those people and u want to take it away from them even tho there are 10-20 other dungeons that fit ur playstyle.
Also you said you want an overhaul to the game where it becomes more skill based instead of a gear grind and DPS race but what you dont even realise is that this change is actually a step to that direction. The devs said it in the ESO live. One of the reason why the game is the way it is right now is because there is no resource management. You put on the BiS gear and push ur stats to the extreme with no drawbacks and then just do a rotation to push as high DPS as possible making everything a DPS race. Make resource management a mitigating factor for build performance. Bring the ceiling down. Class mechanics and managing ur resources becomes a factor when fighting instead of just smashing mindlessly some buttons which is exactly how the game is right now in both PVE and PVP. You are arguing against a change that aims to do the exact same thing that u want. How can you possibly expect an overhaul and at the same time be against to any sort of change to combat. And lastly, making the game like that isnt gonna make those dungeons easier to do. You will still have to get into good groups cause thats where u usually find people that know what they are doing. If you think that its hard for pugs to do those dungeons now that they have CP giving them all kinds of free stuff then what exactly do u think is going to happen when u take their crutches away and make the game skill and mechanics based?
Im done with this. You are saying so many inconsistencies. You cant even agree with urself. Quit or stick to the game. Do whatever you want. Im just gonna sit here and watch the game die in the largest patch that brings new content to literally every type of player. Im sure that this is going to happen.
Please, tell me more over paragraphs what I want as if you are some mystical magical mindreader.
What you dont seem to understand is the current way the game is setup, if they get content, we lose content. The current difficulty system has no middleground, is hardcore content comes out, *** you if you try to play it at an intermediate level or anything other than kiddie pool.
I reject this.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 27, 2017 6:50PM6 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
ESO as a whole is only easy for a tiny portion of the playerbase. Sure, overland content is a cakewalk for most players, but if you ever try a vet DLC dungeon in a pug, you'll see firsthand that the game is not easy for everyone. It's only easy for super hardcore gamers. And the thing about hardcore players is that if the content isn't literally impossible to complete, then they'll find a way through it. Then they'll find a way to master it, and they'll play it until they can play it with their eyes closed, and then complain about how the content is too easy.If these changes happen it will be on the pts first so we can see what impact it actually does. Maybe having a high regen set with a lower damage is not a bad thing as there are complaints about how eso is so easy and there are vids of people doing solo vet group dungeons. @Deltia did vma with no cp, it was quite impressive so harder content is possible even with no cp.
This. "ESO is only easy for a small percentage of the playerbase".
Not everyone is Deltia. Accept it. And stop trying to force us to become deltia, or leave.
Your issue is that u dont have a PVE guild to get in good groups to complete that content. Not that the content is too hard to complete. Thats not how it goes mate. They cant nerf every single piece of content in this game or buff everyone just because you cant get into good groups to complete dungeons. And the whole reason why it is so hard for you to get into such groups in the first place is because the difference between casuals and elites is huge. And one of the reasons for that is resource management being non existent in this game. If resource management was actually a mitigating factor to player performance, the ceiling would be lower and that content wouldnt be as hard. You should as a casual want this change to go through cause it actually helps you but you are just too worried of being weaker that u cant even see what is good for you and what isnt.
I really dont care what delusions you think justify things like SOTH, or even VMOL. My statement stands.
"You as a casual". You dont get to label me, keep your label to yourself. I dont go neatly into a box, thanks.
PS: Your placation works off the assumption content will be ajusted for this new lower DPS ceiling. I doubt it. Your brainwashing fails.
Ok lets nerf the "hardest" dungeons in the game that dont even require close to BiS gear because u cant find a group to do them. Not because you cant do them but because u cant find a group. Makes sense. Well anw casuals or elites. Call urself whatever u want. Game is changing, you either adapt like everyone else or you can keep bitching like you do now and quit.
"Call yourself whatever you want".
Well then I guess I'll call myself 'me' then. Because I still dont fit neatly into any of your boxes.
For the record, the only thing I have ever been in favor of is a complete system rebalance. I'm not against hard content. I just dont think the current system can allow for hard content for those who want it. It is so limited, both by it's design and by it's inability to utilize most of itself, hence the extremely rigid meta, that I see SOTH dungeons as everything -wrong- with the system, rather than the best of it. Extremely high requirements needing the best in slot gear and best minmax tactics to beat, only achieveable by the higher echalons.
I have never been opposed to the game changing. I only think it is changing for the worse. I have stated many times, in this thread, and others, about how I would fix many of these problems. Your hatred for those with a dissenting opinion really does cloud your judgement.
PS: I could find a group, done it for years. Hell, I've done Vet Maz, and Vet COS with pugs. I like pugging. I just stopped wanting to do the content. As much as you hate it, not everyone thinks alike, and goes along with what you want. Learn to expect and tollerate those of a differing viewpoint, instead of trying to rant them into submission.
Now if you'll excuse me, the fun I've been having in Fallout 4, For Honor, and AC Syndicate calls to me.
SOTH dungeons do not require BiS gear and do not require BiS rotations etc. You are 100% off target here. SOTH dungeons require teamwork, good groups and knowing the mechanics and tactics. You dont need 50k DPS to do them. This is why is so hard to pug them. Taking away cost reduction isnt gonna change that. With all due respect but those are the hardest dungeons in the game. They should be difficult. If you want to do them find a PVE guild. What exactly do u want. All dungeons to be Fungal grotto difficulty because people cba to find a guild? seriously?
How ironic talking about tolerating other people while asking for the game to be balanced around ur personal playstyle.
Not everyone is you, and not everyone is trying to make the game revolve around them.
And what I want, is for the game to completely overhaul itself, so that the content is less dependant on puting together the meta rotation of the month, but mastering class mechanics and then mastering fight mechanics.
You know. Like any other decent MMO on the planet. Your of course going to cry "STOP TRYING TO HEMOGENIZE THIS MMO" but really, it wasn't that good to begin with. I've played the hardest content in other MMO's I've played. I played it on the merit of sheer skill. I've mastered it. The difference between this MMO, and those MMO's, is the skill system.
The more options you give to the player, to the point of having a system like this, or Secret world, is that eventually, it becomes about exploitation. Not class mechanics, not any mechanics. It's about circumventing the system. And that is what this game has become.
Worse still, is ZOS has created the need for it. And it wont stop. They'll likely continue to make DPS even more of a factor, and cut our ability to do it because 'lawl they want content to be hard', reguardless of the greater nuance in the community.
By the way. I've never had a PVE guild. Why? I never wanted one. I like pugging. I like rolling the dice, and most of all, I like the sense of achievement it gives me. "Get a guild"? I'd rather get a new game, because any game where I need a raid group for anything outside of raids, or a comparable set of trained people, that says to me the game is floundering because, like SWTOR and so many others before, they are appealing to the 1%, and seting themselves on fire in the process.
You've taken to strawmanning and hate-mongering against near every single person to even dare to present a differing opinion or arguement to you. Your current course is not sustainable. Much like this games.
"Not everyone is you". So you dont want other people to label you but you will label others in any chance you get. Nice. In case you wonder how i play tho then i am a casual. I actually have the same issues you do. I cant run SOTH dungeons cause i cant get into groups. The difference is that i can tell the difference between hard content requiring BiS gear and hard content because the group is bad and i dont want the game to be balanced around me because i cba getting into a guild. I choose to play the way i play and i try to adapt to the game. I dont choose to play the way i play and expect the game to adapt to my playstyle.
And yes you do want to balance the game around ur personal needs. You literally said i dont want to get into a PVE guild to do the hardest content and instead i want the hardest content to be dumbed down so i can pug it. And then u talk about thinking and tolerating other people. Lol. You dont even want this game to have any type of content other than what fits ur personal playstyle and and u are talking about me being aggressive to anyone having a different opinion than me. You have to understand some things. There is content for everyone. Very easy normal dungeons, Veteran dungeons and normal trials accessible by everyone who know the basics, Hard veteran dungeons that do not require BiS gear but require good groups because of mechanics and then there is the hardest end game competitive content with leaderboards which is vet trials and requires BiS gear, teamwork etc. Now i dont do vet trials and i cant say how difficult they are so i said ask for them to get nerfed if u feel like they are unreasonably hard but you cant say that the 2 hard dungeons need to get nerfed because you cant find a group to do them. You choose to pug dungeons, and u work with what you get. There are a ton of dungeons to do that doesnt require good groups. Those 2 dungeons are supposed to be hard. If you want to do them get into a PVE guild and stop asking for everything to be dumbed down. There is even hard content that doesnt require other people and PVE guilds. Its called vMA. Run that.
You are not the only playing this game. There are people who like playing in good groups. And just like there should be content for you the same way there should be content for them. Those two dungeons are the only dungeons that provide any sort of difficulty for those people and u want to take it away from them even tho there are 10-20 other dungeons that fit ur playstyle.
Also you said you want an overhaul to the game where it becomes more skill based instead of a gear grind and DPS race but what you dont even realise is that this change is actually a step to that direction. The devs said it in the ESO live. One of the reason why the game is the way it is right now is because there is no resource management. You put on the BiS gear and push ur stats to the extreme with no drawbacks and then just do a rotation to push as high DPS as possible making everything a DPS race. Make resource management a mitigating factor for build performance. Bring the ceiling down. Class mechanics and managing ur resources becomes a factor when fighting instead of just smashing mindlessly some buttons which is exactly how the game is right now in both PVE and PVP. You are arguing against a change that aims to do the exact same thing that u want. How can you possibly expect an overhaul and at the same time be against to any sort of change to combat. And lastly, making the game like that isnt gonna make those dungeons easier to do. You will still have to get into good groups cause thats where u usually find people that know what they are doing. If you think that its hard for pugs to do those dungeons now that they have CP giving them all kinds of free stuff then what exactly do u think is going to happen when u take their crutches away and make the game skill and mechanics based?
Im done with this. You are saying so many inconsistencies. You cant even agree with urself. Quit or stick to the game. Do whatever you want. Im just gonna sit here and watch the game die in the largest patch that brings new content to literally every type of player. Im sure that this is going to happen.
Please, tell me more over paragraphs what I want as if you are some mystical magical mindreader.
What you dont seem to understand is the current way the game is setup, if they get content, we lose content. The current difficulty system has no middleground, is hardcore content comes out, *** you if you try to play it at an intermediate level or anything other than kiddie pool.
I reject this.
What mystical magical mindreader bs are you even talking about? You said urself what u want. You said you want the game to change and become more skill based instead of what we have now and at the same time you reject a change that aims to make the game more skill based. You are saying so many inconsistencies. You cant even agree with urself.
What you dont seem to understand with the current way the game is setup is that everyone has content to run. Everyone. Theare are easy dungeons (normal mode), intermediate level dungeons (veteran dungeons excluding DLC) and hard dungeons (vet DLC dungs). There is content for everyone. There is even hard solo content. You chose the playstyle of the pug. No one is forcing you to do it, you chose it, you dont want to get into good groups and yet you demand for the game to adapt around your personal playstyle by making all the dungeons intermediate level which essentially leaves the people that do actually like to play in good groups with nothing to run besides vet trials. Oh wait you want the trials to adapt to ur playstyle too. Are "elites" even allowed in this game or should we ban them too. You sound like someone that chose to play solo in PVP and then complaining why he is fighting outnumbered. Way to go man.Edited by pieratsos on March 27, 2017 10:48PM1 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
The difference between CP 300 and CP 600 is very, very small compared to the difference between CP 0 and CP 300, thanks to the way that the stats gained from the CP stars scale. In fact, at CP 300, you can probably have most of the power that you can get from one star, while having a pretty substantial amount of the power you can gain from the other.EldritchPenguin wrote: »
While the change will directly hurt hardcore players the most, they're also the people who are best equipped to adapt to change. So while their builds will be worse off at 600 CP than someone else at 300 CP, they might actually have an entire gear extra set just sitting around that they can throw in instead.Ep1kMalware wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
But thats exactly what they are tying to do. They want to nerf the top.This is just speculation but I imagine cost reduction is being removed from CP system in order to promote using different armor types for cost reduction.
Wouldn't surprise me if they ended up buffing cost reduction passives that medium and light armor provides.
If this is the case its a really smart move. Pve wise sustain wouldn't really change as far as reducing ability costs. At the same time, in PvP it would provide more incentive to not use heavy armor.
When the masses complain on the forums ZOS listens, believe it or not. I really think this is their attempt to balance heavy armor in PvP while not making things way worse for pve.
Could be wrong though.
It's a smart move only if they buff those passives, making medium and light armor on par with heavy in pvp, but from what i understand they just wanna nerf sustain.
Oh, and it would also close the gap between cp 160 and 600 cp players without nerfing the top.
By removing those cp they are nerfing everyone, it's just stupid.
They should not remove those cp.
Also homogenization is not very clever, they should not nerf the top because of the bottom, and they should definitely not nerf every player.
The nerf doesnt hit everyone the same way. What exactly do u not understand? Do you actually believe that people need that cost reduction to do fungal grotto and banished cells? Are you for real now? Some people are not cp capped and yet they are still doing most of the content, some people do not have optimal cp allocation and yet they are still doing most of the content. The casuals do not need that cost reduction for the content they do.
And yes they should absolutely lower the ceiling. Its kinda laughable how everyone was bitching once upon a time about how easy the PVE content was and now that ZOS makes it harder, you started bitching about content being too hard. Its the hardest content of the game. Its suppose to be hard. Mechanics were made to be faced not skipped. The game is changing every patch. Its not gonna stay the same. Either adapt to it like everyone else did and will do or just quit.
LOL you might not like that outcome with that line of thinking as when you balance the game around such a small group of elitist pricks those games have and WILL die.
We'll most definitely see I assure you
Wut? Can you even read? I said this change is a nerf to elitists not the casuals.
This game was designed with resource management in mind. This got lost with CP and they are trying to bring it back which is good for the game in general. And you are just here bitching because 1% of the game's content will be harder to complete. How about u ask for a trial nerf instead?
Anw bottom line is that the game changes every patch. You will not always like the changes. And if u actually believe that the game will die in morrowind then u are delusional. The game survived game breaking mechanics and bugs. It will survive now too. Either adapt like everyone else or quit. We wont miss you.
Elitests? You mean the people with the best group support in the game? Do you even do trials? Holy hell lol. Yeah cuz this totally wont punish groups that cant get healers to throw shards and will totslly nerf high support groups.
Yes those people. You know those that squeeze every ounce of performace out of their builds and they are playing their builds to the limits. You know those with the perfect CP allocation etc. Thats where it is going to hit. Any kind of nerf on something that cant get better its obvious that its going to make it worse. And when im saying hit it doesnt mean its gonna break the game. Learn the difference. A casual that doesnt even have 100 points into warlord or magician in the first place or doesnt have BiS gear or doesnt run the content that actually requires all that wont feel as much the change. They have room for improvement either with getting more CP, making a better allocation or get better gear and a better rotation ( assuming they want to run vTrials). Do u get it now or want me to explain it again?
Meanwhile, the CP 300 players who are just getting to the point where they're ready for IC and SOTH dungeons will find that they have a substantial amount of grinding ahead of them, just to make up for the power they lost overnight. No, their builds won't directly lose as much power from the change, but they will have a much harder time making up for it than the players who the change was designed to affect hardest, meaning that the middle-of-the-road players will feel the impact of the change for the longest.
I know they are the most suited to adapt to the changes. That doesnt change the fact that this change hits them and not really the casuals. You said it urself. "Someone else at 300CP". Someone at 300 CP doesnt have 100 CP to magician. Someone at 300 CP doesnt use the CP to its full potential. How can u possibly feel a nerf by taking away something that u already dont have. This is just one example. Then there is gear, rotations etc. Which means that they can actually completely negate the nerf by becoming better. Also, casuals do not really run the hardest content of the game. They run content that doesnt require that cost reduction in the first place.
I'm currently at CP 328. I have 71 in Magician and 37 in Arcanist, reducing the cost of my spells by 13% and increasing my Magicka recovery by 12.5%. I currently have 81% of the maximum power of Magician and 50% of the maximum possible power of Arcanist.
So, no. I won't feel the full, unbridled fury of the devs removing Arcanist from the game. But I'll feel 81% of it. So while I'm not using the CP system to its absolute fullest potential, I'm using enough of it for it to make a huge impact on my gameplay.
This has nothing to do with casuals. This has everything to do with the intermediate player; the players who want to get to an endgame level, but aren't quite there yet. Endgame communities need new blood to thrive, and making changes that raise the bar for reaching endgame is a bad move for games that want to have endgame communities, especially if it locks progressing players out of content that they were previously able to complete.
While limiting the power of endgame players is a worthwhile objective, accomplishing it by removing Magician and Warlord is a short-sighted change that will hurt intermediate players more than advanced players in the long run, since they are far enough along to feel the impact of the changes, but not far enough along to be able to easily adapt to the changes. This runs contrary to the developers' previously stated goal of raising the floor and lowering the ceiling, and will create a greater rift between the players who are prepared for endgame and the players who are not.Edited by EldritchPenguin on March 27, 2017 10:05PMLilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade5 -
rustic_potato✭✭✭✭✭Whiners are always going to whine. ZOS will make the changes. The people who play the game will adapt. Whiners will find other reasons to whine.I play how I want to.2
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
I'm currently at CP 328. I have 71 in Magician and 37 in Arcanist, reducing the cost of my spells by 13% and increasing my Magicka recovery by 12.5%. I currently have 81% of the maximum power of Magician and 50% of the maximum possible power of Arcanist.
Which means that u lose the cost reduction and have 71 more points to put them in arcanist and tenacity to make up for the loss. You also get even more CP than you have now. Which means even more raw stats. Even more sustain, even more survivability and even more dmg. You will most likely feel stronger than u do now not weaker. I know cause ive been there. You do not have 600CP thats why u dont actually know how much stronger u become. Try doing vMA now. When u get to CP600 do it again and then come here and tell me that 300 CP isnt a big difference. How it looks on the paper and how it turns out to be in actual fights is very different. The difference isnt just big. Its huge.EldritchPenguin wrote: »
This has nothing to do with casuals. This has everything to do with the intermediate player; the players who want to get to an endgame level, but aren't quite there yet. Endgame communities need new blood to thrive, and making changes that raise the bar for reaching endgame is a bad move for games that want to have endgame communities, especially if it locks progressing players out of content that they were previously able to complete.
You continue to say that but its the exact opposite that this change will do. The devs said it from the last patch. We want to lower the ceiling. They also explained in the last ESO live why they are doing this change.The change lowers the bar. It doesnt raise it. It cant raise it because its nerfing people not making them stronger. Any kind of nerf to the end game "elites" means lowering the bar. They cant get better cause they are already min maxed. While at the same time the intermediate players or casuals call them whatever u want do not get hit as hard by this change as proven in ur case which is one example. They also do not have BiS gears and rotations etc. They have room for improvement getting better and since the ceiling is lower they can actually get into end game content easier. You also have to understand that the content we have now isnt for CP600 players. There is no content that they can do now which will be impossible to complete without cost reduction. This is just in ur imagination.
And most importantly vMOL isnt most of the content of this game. Just like everyone else u are against this change because it will make 1% of the content harder. Did it even cross ur mind that the problem may be with that trial? This change aims to make the game more skill based. If u think this is bad then i really dont know what to say. So instead of being against something that can be good for the game how about u ask for an adjustment to the problem that u actually have.Edited by pieratsos on March 27, 2017 10:42PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rustic_potato wrote: »Whiners are always going to whine. ZOS will make the changes. The people who play the game will adapt. Whiners will find other reasons to whine.
Alternatively, said whiners will tell people who will consider whether or not to pull up stakes, which is allready happening.
The intermediate and hardcore communities are leaving. I'd like you, to tell the guy with VMA completions out the wazoo that he is a 'whiner'.6 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »rustic_potato wrote: »Whiners are always going to whine. ZOS will make the changes. The people who play the game will adapt. Whiners will find other reasons to whine.
Alternatively, said whiners will tell people who will consider whether or not to pull up stakes, which is allready happening.
The intermediate and hardcore communities are leaving. I'd like you, to tell the guy with VMA completions out the wazoo that he is a 'whiner'.
Yeah yeah we know. Everyone is leaving and the game will die. I wonder how many times this game can die.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »rustic_potato wrote: »Whiners are always going to whine. ZOS will make the changes. The people who play the game will adapt. Whiners will find other reasons to whine.
Alternatively, said whiners will tell people who will consider whether or not to pull up stakes, which is allready happening.
The intermediate and hardcore communities are leaving. I'd like you, to tell the guy with VMA completions out the wazoo that he is a 'whiner'.
Yeah yeah we know. Everyone is leaving and the game will die. I wonder how many times this game can die.
Again, depends on how we define death.
Something like Conan unchained by all rights died -ages- ago. If the game loses enough players, it's considered dead.4
