What advice would you give ZoS if they made another mmo?

Lynx7386

Get away from the cash shop model

andreasranasen

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

If, for some reason, they decide to make a new MMO, don't release it on console. EVER!

Um,

1. They make more money out of console players than PC players.
2. It's easier to sell and market games on console than it is on PC.
3. Majority of people own consoles than PC's.


Console games played in 2012: 445,278,842
PC games played in 2012: 33,355,879

I see your 2012 date and raise you 2015 data:

http://venturebeat.com/2015/04/14/155-million-americans-play-video-games-and-4-out-of-5-households-own-a-gaming-device/

From which: "The PC is the most popular gaming device in America, says the study, with 62 percent of the most frequent gamers using it to play. Dedicated consoles follow at 56 percent, and then smartphones at 35 percent. Dedicated handheld systems like the PlayStation Vita and Nintendo 3DS are the least popular, at 21 percent."

Quick use of google also shows 84% of US Households have a PC - 73% of which also have a broadband connection, but only 51% have a Console.

So what the console market actually shows is a smaller number (than PC) of total players drifting between a higher number of games (your data is "games played").

A successful long-term investment in a game (from a development point of view) requires players that stick around, not players who flit between games just because the weather changed.

All The Best

"84% of US Households have a PC". True that, you beat me to it. But do 84% of the US Households play games on them? Not everyone in that percentage bought a PC to play games. 51% from your data that has a console most likely bought the console to play games, because that's the purpose of a console.

My data i provided shows that more games are played on console than a PC. Meaning more games are bought. Whether they stick around or not. I believe it's also more convenient to buy a console than a PC. PC computers are big and take up too much space with their harddrives etc. Yes there's MAC with their harddrives built into the screens. But MAC's are not made to play games on (mac owner here). It is a lot more convenient and cheaper to buy a console and a much smoother experience and safer to download and buy games through XBOX/PS4. There may not be a lot of MMO's on console YET. But console is the future of gaming.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I will let Gabe Newell take this one for me.

You have to stop thinking that you're in charge and start thinking that you're having a dance. We used to think we're smart [...] but nobody is smarter than the internet. [...] One of the things we learned pretty early on is 'Don't ever, ever try to lie to the internet - because they will catch you. They will de-construct your spin. They will remember everything you ever say for eternity.'
You can see really old school companies really struggle with that. They think they can still be in control of the message. [...] So yeah, the internet (in aggregate) is scary smart. The sooner people accept that and start to trust that that's the case, the better they're gonna be in interacting with them.

TequilaFire

PC is going the way of the dinosaur with smartphones, tablets and appliance type specialized boxes like the Echo Dot and consoles which are becoming evermore powerful.

andreasranasen

TequilaFire wrote: »

PRRRRREACH

TequilaFire

I actually say that with tongue in cheek as I have made a good living using the PC most of my life.
But am sad to see that processor development has reached a peak in technology with the chipmakers now concentrating on making chipsets for smartphones and tablets.

Rev Rielle

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I'd suggest they look at:

• The way Guild Wars 2 scales content to player density.
• The Secret World for the way they handle quests and their repeatability.
• Everquest 2 in relation to player created content (e.g. housing/dungeons)
• Lord of the Rings Online in terms of their fashion system (though Guild Wars 2 & The Secret World are very good also)
• EVE Online in terms of creating the foundations for a great player economy.
• Black Desert Online in terms of travel.
• Rift in terms of dynamic content.

I agree with most of this except with the black desert travel. I hate autopathing/autocombat in games. It is one of the things that turns me off from a game automatically.

I must admit, I'm not a huge fan of it either, but it feels like something that should be part of an ESO game. (Assuming that ZoS's next MMOs was another TES game)

theultimatewarrior

Open server pvp. U can kill anyone anywhere only safe places are in town and its more clan/alliance base. Alliance as in clans joins other clans to join a alliance and try to take server castle s. Why.. well there too many noobs in dungeons that think they hot stuff for being 600 cp.if it were world wide open pvp i love ro drop those 600 cp nubs

Lylith

What advice would you give ZoS if they made another mmo?

fix eso first.

Betsararie

Don't make fallout because I don't like fallout. I wouldn't play.

If they take another crack at this, they need to understand that good endgame content is what makes an MMO good or bad. They have to incorporate a (very) large amount of expansive endgame content or the game doesn't have a leg to stand on. They didn't do this this time around.

Edit: as a disclaimer I like this game but just add more endgame content

quadraxis666

What advice would you give ZoS if they made another mmo?

Don't.

WhiteMage

The combat system makes and breaks the MMO. So get the best guy you can find for the job who can see the whole picture, not someone who comes up with ideas, implements them, and then fixes them whem they aren't balanced from the outset. Give him the resources he needs to do his job properly and re-evaluate balance frequently, not pile on changes asystematically in a big update hoping to fix it all in one shot.

AzraelKrieg

TequilaFire wrote: »

PC is going the way of the dinosaur with smartphones, tablets and appliance type specialized boxes like the Echo Dot and consoles which are becoming evermore powerful.

Does that account for the fact that a lot of people now are not buying pre-built machines and are building their own from sourcing parts online?

mtwiggz

Get a completely new development, customer service and programming team.

Now I'm sure all of the issues within ESO arent solely their fault. Yet they're the easiest to blame as they're the ones actually "making" the game.

Eshelmen

My advice to them in making another MMO?

DON'T.

Nerouyn

Jemcrystal wrote: »

1st off tho. Is there a chance ZoS might one day make another mmorpg?

The MMO goldrush is definitely over. Even Blizzard canned their second MMO because after watching all of the MMOs which followed World of Warcraft and seeing the vast majority of them bomb spectacularly, they realised the market is overcrowded and they already corner it with WOW. There's nothing for them to gain in making another.

Zenimax are unlikely to make another.

Jemcrystal wrote: »

Or will they forever be bound to this one?

They'll never let ESO die because that would damage the Elder Scrolls IP, whose single-player games continue to make them unbelievable amounts of money.

Jemcrystal wrote: »

If they did make another mmo in the Elder Scrolls series what advice would you give them?

The exact same advice I and many others gave while it was in development : Classes?! Are you *** kidding me? The immensely popular Elder Scrolls IP is much loved for not having classes. WOW with its classes never had more than about 12 million subscribers. Skyrim sold over 23 million copies. Do the math. Also remember that your attempt to limit character development with finite perk points was so unpopular that you lifted that in a patch.

Don't be two-faced. ESO has become synonymous with trying to have it both ways, eg. racial bonuses and soft caps. They tried to appear to appeal to both players who do and don't want significant racial differences but no-one was fooled. ESO Plus have access to all DLC.... but now we're going to call one DLC a year a 'chapter' and ESO Plus have to pay for that.

Horse feeding grind? Don't even think about that kind of stupid ***. That and the research trait grind create so many problems for the game. In nearly any other MMO players could probably happily delete a character if they weren't happy with for any reason and make another. Spend a few days or a week levelling back to max and then you're happy. You can't do that in ESO.

Just make a fun game and be honest.

Also important are the things they got right.

End-game : Lots of different activities (dungeons, pve dailies, pvp etc.) and you don't force players into any of them. Motifs might only be obtainable via one of them but they're not bound and can be freely sold. This is fantastic and in stark contrast to many MMOs which have eg. multiple reputation currencies and players have to participate in all of those grinds if they want particular shinies. Even if they don't enjoy them. And not enjoying them players become inclined to abandon those games more easily.

Story, visuals and voice acting are amazing. Combat is great, except for animation cancelling. That's a divisive one.

Good forums. ZO may ignore a lot of constructive criticism to the game's detriment, or take a long time to be swayed by it, but they're not forum fascists and that's to their credit.

TheShadowScout

Personally, my advice would be adding more choices, and more interactivity...

More choices, as in, have multiple ways how each quest can be completed. At least three, a combat path, a stealth path, and a social path, each different, and let players choose. Have more options in world. Less railroading, more free world. More movement options, not just a essentially 2D-ish world, but more climbing, swimming, diving, flying options. No invisible walls (though slaughterfish or the occasional aerial hazard to keep people from going "offmap" - but make the map nifty enough they don't have to. More character choices, I generally dislike rigid class systems, and enjoy more and more ways to customize... especially mutually exclusive ways, like options to join either the criminals, or the lawkeepers, bot never both (something I really miss in ESOs TG and DB DLCs...)

Also, less pigeonholing in the gear skill choices. Like... two-handed skills aside, eso has a sword&board line, and a dual wield line... why didn't they just have a "mainhand melee weapon line" and one or more "mainhand magic line(s)" (elemental-destruction, and restoration at least) and a "offhand weapon line" and a "offhand shield line" and a "offhand throwing line" and one or more "offhand magic line(s)", and then let people mix and match the skills from the applicable lines according to what they want to do with their characters hands?

More interactivity - make the game react more to players choices; character generation choices, in-game choices, and quest choices.

• Make the starting point different depending on what race you play (like in Dragon Age - Origins; I loved how each race had their own starting point, their own introduction, their own story until they hit the common point and went on from there...)
• Have some of your character appereance taken into account, game-effect wise. A big, burly wrestlemania type character should be strong and tough, but easy to hit and hard to hide. A petite skinny ninjalike character might be quick and agile, easily hidden and hard to hit, but lack a bit when it comes to lifting large things or not getting thrown across the room by a hefty gust of wind. A fat character may have more meat to absord non critical damage (rumor has it, that is how the original roman gladiators were - fat so they could suffer crowd-pleasing "surface" flesh wounds without hurting the important stuff) and some weight of their own to throw around, but will be a big target and out of breath as soon as they have to run more then ten steps. Et cetera.
• Make the NPCs react differently depending on your characters race and gender - and way more different then just some side commnets, but whole quests going completely another way; quests where "one of us" gets offered shortcut after shortcut, while "one of our enemies" has to jump through extra hoops just to prove themselves (reversed when moving to a different "homefield").
• Make your choices in the game have meaning, and not just "which comment you hear from NPC" meaning, but mission-tree branches meaning, if you go this way on that quest, those quests in the future change this way, and if you go that way on the first quest they go that way... (I loved the first wing commander for this). Also, more effect to in-game organization membership, have quests where your joining a criminal organization is a help, and others where its a hindrance, and others where joining a lawful organization is a help, and others again where that is a hindrance (remember FallOut2 where choosing to star in, uhm... a certain kind of movie production in New Reno made it impossible to join a certain morally old fashioned family?). And in that spirit, more effect to your diverse in-game choices in general. A extensive reputation system, where it matters if your characters have a reputation as nasty or nice, tightwad or generous, stern or sensitive, prude or lewd, merciless or forgiving, whatever. Just make sure the game takes it into account here and there, in meaningful ways!
• Make the world react differently to your character depending on their in-game equipment too - I would love to see games that take your looks into account, walk through the well guarded city in combat armor and weapons, get all the guards/cops after you, walk through the badlands in the same outfit, scare off the bandit NPCs; walk through the city in rich status clothing, have all the vendors offer you special deals, walk through the badlands in the same outfit, attract all the bandits as "rich target"... or where walking around in skimpy clothes in a wintery snow region gets you catching a cold faster then you can say skyrim, while wandering through the desert in a pullover and thick long coat is a sure path to heatstroke...

Stuff like that anyhow...

Turelus wrote: »

Invest the money in having a team in house (in their offices) who focus on security.

Then keep an eye on servers and players tickets to work faster on bans for botting, exploiting, cheating, RMT and server security...

Good point, this is actually one thing that vexes me most about MMOs - the people who go full jerk on them by botting, explopiting, cheating, gold-farming, scamming, whatever.

Kendaric wrote: »

If you opt for classes, have plenty of them that cater to different playstyles.

Classes should be based around passives, not active skills (pretty much how races are in ESO). Active skills should only come from skill lines everyone can learn...

That too is one thing I would enjoy very much. Skills being generaly open to everyone, no matter their proclaimed profession. Or said profession only giving them a step up in learning some skills (like in the old elder scrolls games, where you could technically learn every skill, and your class just have you an initial training in your "class skills" which were not big flashy spells, but stuff like sword or armor, types of magic or thievery skills...)

Diversity is impoirtant in MMOs though... but does not need to come from classes, it can also come from exclusive skill lines.

For example... they could always make several "either... or..." skill line combinations. Like... you can either learn aedric magic, or daedric magic, but you cannot learn both because they are opposing forces. You can learn any of the elemetan magics, but if you learn fire you cannot learn water, and if you learn air you cannot learn earth, and vica versea, as opposing elements. And so on. Just like the "either criminal guilds, or lawkeeper guilds" thing I mentioned above, really, just also for skill lines.
Other skills may be done in an "pick -number-" way... like, you could learn only a certain number of skills from each group, pick three, any three, but no more then three... a bit like elective classes, right? There could even be options to earn additional "elevtive slots" later on in the game...
And some skill lines could be entirely hidden in the game, and only become available if you unlock them through gameplay. Find the right teacher. Discover the right artifact. Get the right cybernitic implant. Drink the right potion. Get bitten be the right spider... oh, no, wait, that one is marvel property!

Dividing skills into lots of smaller "choicegroups" would make for WAY more character combinations, thus way more fun. Probably way more balance issues as well, but hey, noone said it would be easy, right?

daniel.13b16_ESO

Well, I for one love ESO and the way they include RvR and PvE. I love both equally. If they do another MMO just work on balance but include something like Cyrodiil.

Jameliel

Go play DDO for several months. Then they should know how to design a game with true creativity that makes sense.

Stewart1874

Construct a business model which is not contingent on loot crates or immoral pricing/ marketing strategies. If it can't be done then don't make another MMO.

eso_lags

MAKE.BETTER.SERVERS!

Wifeaggro13

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Either make a MMO or an RPG. This mash up is ugly. It feels like you made an mmo with people who know nothing about mmos and an rpg with an annoying amount of people running around.

Or make sure you get another popular IP, because then we will buy whatever junk you put out.

this is on point. this game never picked a path and walked it. now its a visitor center with a gift shop.

Agobi

Sub only,no cash shop,no gambling boxes,and no PvP wahtsoever......guaranteed success

DaveMoeDee

TequilaFire wrote: »

PC is going the way of the dinosaur with smartphones, tablets and appliance type specialized boxes like the Echo Dot and consoles which are becoming evermore powerful.

Power isn't as important to most as price and convenience. Most people with PCs don't have good gaming PCs because they wouldn't know what to look for, they don't want to spend the money, and they want to play in their living room. If people care about performance, consoles wouldn't get away with those super slow drives.

generalmyrick

every door must be openable. even if there is a building with no doors, there should be a way into it.

generalmyrick

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

I would never play another MMO by ZOS.

im just going to see if it has an guild trader system and limited inventory. if it has either of those too, i'll probably pass unless they have some feature that is mindblowing, like my wish for an automated merchant ship that sells my *** port to port.

Tandor wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

If, for some reason, they decide to make a new MMO, don't release it on console. EVER!

Um,

1. They make more money out of console players than PC players.
2. It's easier to sell games on console than it is on PC.
3. Majority of people own consoles than PC's.


Console games played in 2012: 445,278,842
PC games played in 2012: 33,355,879

Care to put forward corresponding figures for MMORPGs? Five years out of date will do !

But why take a demographic out of the equation? I do not understand not having MMO's on consoles.

My point was that while more gamers use consoles, comparatively few console gamers play MMORPGs. Therefore while it would make no sense for a developer of some other types of games to miss out on the console market, that doesn't apply to MMORPGs the majority of whose developers don't bother with console versions.

people that make money look to what is possible not silly syllogisms.

Kiralyn2000

Ignore the highly-opinionated/vocal forum minorities.

DaveMoeDee

"Nice knowing you"

Unless they do an IP I can't resist, like Fallout, The Witcher, or Dragon Age.

rikimm16_ESO

One Big Auction House

Drachenfier

No more limited skillsets. It's the thing I hate most about ESO and it's also the thing that keeps class diversity so low. The classes in this game are just boring.