The Most important winning factor in PVP…

Lyserus

I have been in the pvp since Monday, and from what I can see, though some of players have good skill and build that they can solo a five Men group （last time my 10 member group are wiped by 3 players and some guards, though Most of us were noob in pvp including me）, the Most important factor is still just about numbers. In the last Few days of this week, EP wiped out DC and get emperor everyday around 4am because they still have a zerg and DC is dead slience on Azura server. Until this morning DC managed to maintain a zerg and wiped out both EP and AD without big effort because the biggest foe we encountered had no more than 5 players.

So in a case where everyone know how pvp working, skill is not the crucial factor but number, which is not something can be altered by one's effort I am a noob in pvp but for now this is the biggest problem I find in PVP

Btw also asking which camp is easiest to get emperor except bwb

THEDKEXPERIENCE

In one respect you are right. If you're one or two guys fighting 5, 10, or 50+ people can be quite hard if not totally impossible. Nothing much even the best players can do to fend off a 27 on 1 attack aside from fleeing.

Skill comes up in 3 ways mostly ...

- People who can survive multiple attackers. This is really the key part of 1 v Xing. Not killing 5 people at once but having enough tricks and skill (along with a great build) that lets you survive the onslaught long enough to pick off opponents one ultimate at a time.
- People who can fight someone of equal build strength unassisted.
- People who thrive in Zergs. Not in a "let's go kill that 1 person 20 on 1" but in a "There are 30 blues at the Chalman Mine. There are also 30 reds outside of Chalman approaching the mine. Let's see who the last man standing is."

If you can do all 3 then chances are you're a pretty good player.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

geonsocal

yes, when you are speaking of zerg on zerg violence - size does in fact matter...but, so does the use of siege weapons, environment/landscape, communications and tactics...

it will in fact though take a while to really recognize and understand exactly what's going on...

when the calendar reads march 3, 2018 and you state you've been pvping since february 27, 2017 - you will most likely have a much different perspective than today...

it's a wild and constantly changing world out there in cyro land...hope you're enjoying it...

Lyserus

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Being in a group or not really doesn't matter if there's no communication or teamwork.

I got a nice story about an AD group I've been dealing with since Monday and how they hate me now.

True, but that's not exactly my point though…everytime one side got wiped it's likely because that alliance has no players online and the other one has a zerg…not because they are weak in skill or something

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lyserus wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Being in a group or not really doesn't matter if there's no communication or teamwork.

I got a nice story about an AD group I've been dealing with since Monday and how they hate me now.

True, but that's not exactly my point though…everytime one side got wiped it's likely because that alliance has no players online and the other one has a zerg…not because they are weak in skill or something

Disagree.

A lot of people see a bad map and get mentally defeated. Maybe they go play in another campaign or just decide that today would be better served playing ESO home decorator 2017.

Meanwhile there are a few good PVP guilds that can turn a map with just 20 players. I've seen groups like this steamroll 100+ many times. Like @geonsocal said, siege, environment and tactics matter a ton for the upper 10% of PVP guilds.

Also, despite popular opinion just one person can swing the war. I've gone into Haddy a bunch of times with my Reds gated and just started soloing resources at places like Kingscrest to get the ball rolling. If you take 3 resources allies will come to help attack the keep almost 100% of the time. Another way is to start a free siege give away. Putting down 4 or 5 stone trebs will signal to others to put down theirs. It all snowballs. You can do this without talking to anyone, and I have dozens of times.

All of Cyrodiil is a snowball. Sometimes you just gotta take it upon yourself to start it rolling. Soloing 3 gated resources can lead to taking the entire map 3 hours later. You just gotta be the one willing to ignore the complainers and get the ball rolling. Of course you will get no glory from this because most won't notice, and you won't ever be emperor because the AP farmers will always be more efficient. Still, if you do it enough people will realize who the real MVPs are.

geonsocal

@Lyserus ...holy cow - just checked your home page there (like the dog avatar a bunch ) - man, you been busy...89 discussions/polls/questions initiated since dec '16...prolific that is...

nice work...the reason we are all able to come to the forums and enjoy talking about eso is the willingness of some to get stuff started...good job...

if you are sincerely intrigued in pvp and have an inquisitive mind - man, there are layers upon layers of depth to it...

my first six months maybe - i didn't group at all (too many wierdos , plus - i'm kind of an introvert), so, to be honest - i didn't really learn a lot...after about a year in i joined the forums began grouping more and found there was a whole world of pvp stuff i was unaware of...

that's good you've spent a good portion of the week playing pvp in groups - a lot of really good info out there on the mic's, also though, some bad info (and, occasionally attitudes)...over time i've found the most fun and pvp skill progression occurs in groups of 3 to 6...more than that and it can get a little noisy and chaotic...

enjoy the journey, check out the pvp section here on the forums - you may have to do some sifting to get through all the crying and whining ...but, a lot of knowledge there...some players tend to take life and their passions very seriously and want to be the best in everything...hats off to those folks...

thankfully i'm not cursed with that overachieving type mindset...casual is as casual does...

AlnilamE

About a year ago, I had time to PvP a lot and I spent enough time in Cyrodiil to get most of the Akaviri motif as well as unlock the needed skills on 3 characters.

I learned that a small group that knows what they are doing can easily defend against a superior force.

I learned that strategy is very important when attacking if you don't have numbers.

I learned that a good player with enough situational awareness can survive an attack by several players.

I learned that there are ways to wipe out zergs if you time things right.

It all depends on the experience of the people you are playing with/against.

When I first started in PvP, I would die at every encounter. Then I got better.

Zvorgin

Being organized and coordinated is by far the most important factor. Zergs melt in front of a much smaller group that is coordinated.

Granted, a large well run group will always beat a smaller equally well run group and it should.

Key is to not get sucked into pug Zerg vs pug Zerg but go find productive things to do. Flit keeps behind lines that stop ports to the Zerg, constantly on the move hitting other areas, isn't hard for a small group to hit and run and flip the map as the zergs go back and forth.

Lynx7386

One of these days I hope to have a character that can survive more than ten seconds in pvp. There's just too much damage out there and not enough defense.

Sigtric

Lyserus wrote: »

I have been in the pvp since Monday, and from what I can see, though some of players have good skill and build that they can solo a five Men group （last time my 10 member group are wiped by 3 players and some guards, though Most of us were noob in pvp including me）, the Most important factor is still just about numbers. In the last Few days of this week, EP wiped out DC and get emperor everyday around 4am because they still have a zerg and DC is dead slience on Azura server. Until this morning DC managed to maintain a zerg and wiped out both EP and AD without big effort because the biggest foe we encountered had no more than 5 players.

So in a case where everyone know how pvp working, skill is not the crucial factor but number, which is not something can be altered by one's effort I am a noob in pvp but for now this is the biggest problem I find in PVP

Btw also asking which camp is easiest to get emperor except bwb

Numbers play a huge part of it sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

There's been several fights I've seen this past week where AD or DC has outnumbered us 3 to 1 or more, and we win because they either melt on site, or scatter and run and get picked off.

Probably happens the other way to EP groups too, but most of the time it's going to come down to whose communicating. I've seen small 4-6 person groups bust a giant zerg before.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lynx7386 wrote: »

One of these days I hope to have a character that can survive more than ten seconds in pvp. There's just too much damage out there and not enough defense.

Heavy Armor is your best friend.

geonsocal

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

One of these days I hope to have a character that can survive more than ten seconds in pvp. There's just too much damage out there and not enough defense.

Heavy Armor is your best friend.

second best friend - meat shields...make sure you have other players in front (and on occasion the sides and rear also) of you...

fight at range...you don't have to be a super warrior to kill folks - you just have to be able to get in on the fun...

THEDKEXPERIENCE

geonsocal wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

One of these days I hope to have a character that can survive more than ten seconds in pvp. There's just too much damage out there and not enough defense.

Heavy Armor is your best friend.

second best friend - meat shields...make sure you have other players in front (and on occasion the sides and rear also) of you...

fight at range...you don't have to be a super warrior to kill folks - you just have to be able to get in on the fun...

Meat Shields are a must! You are 100% correct.

The best way to survive a Zerg on Zerg battle is to make proper use of your teammates stupidity. Not sure if this will format right but imagine the following to be a Zerg vs Zerg ...

---

vvvvvvvvvvv
^^^^^^^^^^^^

---

You want to be one of the

---

guys and dart up to the ^^^^^^^^ area. When it gets too harry dart back to the

---

area and let your front line teammates absorb the damage. You can stick and move your way to a highly productive hour long life with 100 kills and 0 deaths if you do it right.

PlaceboSoul

Also, kudos to all in this thread. By far the most constructive and civil thread I've ever seen about what makes a pvper good. Most I've seen devolve very quickly.

I don't pvp often at all myself, I am able to AC but I don't like the mechanic much. So with my lack of experience I'm also frankly not that good at it

I was in a guild that was into it for a while though, helped on a few emperor pushes, and from what I've seen I'd say everything in this thread is valid.

Build makes a lot of difference if it's well put together, so does gear, but I'd say experience and skill tops most things in pvp, unlike pve or at least as much. I've seen some guys in pvp with mediocre gear put a nasty whoopin on groups of 2 to 4, just knowing what they're doing.

I guess like life, pvp practice makes perfect (or at least more skilled)

THEDKEXPERIENCE

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Also, kudos to all in this thread. By far the most constructive and civil thread I've ever seen about what makes a pvper good. Most I've seen devolve very quickly.

I don't pvp often at all myself, I am able to AC but I don't like the mechanic much. So with my lack of experience I'm also frankly not that good at it

I was in a guild that was into it for a while though, helped on a few emperor pushes, and from what I've seen I'd say everything in this thread is valid.

Build makes a lot of difference if it's well put together, so does gear, but I'd say experience and skill tops most things in pvp, unlike pve or at least as much. I've seen some guys in pvp with mediocre gear put a nasty whoopin on groups of 2 to 4, just knowing what they're doing.

I guess like life, pvp practice makes perfect (or at least more skilled)

You're totally right and thanks for the kind words. If nothing else just remember the old adage about how there is always someone out there better than you. I've had many nights where I've fought and beat top players, including many reigning emperors. Even still, not 2 days ago did I get destroyed by a complete random CP348. It was a bit emasculating but it was a good ego check. Haha.

O_LYKOS

3 Alliances battling it out and the "numbers" is the problem.

Strength in numbers my friend. 9/10 those with the higher numbers, larger active groups, will win.

Vurian97

Lyserus wrote: »

I have been in the pvp since Monday, and from what I can see, though some of players have good skill and build that they can solo a five Men group （last time my 10 member group are wiped by 3 players and some guards, though Most of us were noob in pvp including me）, the Most important factor is still just about numbers. In the last Few days of this week, EP wiped out DC and get emperor everyday around 4am because they still have a zerg and DC is dead slience on Azura server. Until this morning DC managed to maintain a zerg and wiped out both EP and AD without big effort because the biggest foe we encountered had no more than 5 players.

So in a case where everyone know how pvp working, skill is not the crucial factor but number, which is not something can be altered by one's effort I am a noob in pvp but for now this is the biggest problem I find in PVP

Btw also asking which camp is easiest to get emperor except bwb

I was leading the DC group that flipped the map blue. Haha! It started out with major resistance but as EP & AD kept losing, they started logging out. We eventually just took it all.

Easiest campaign to get Emperor? Haderus!

geonsocal

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

The best way to survive a Zerg on Zerg battle is to make proper use of your teammates stupidity. Not sure if this will format right but imagine the following to be a Zerg vs Zerg ...

---

vvvvvvvvvvv
^^^^^^^^^^^^

---

You want to be one of the

---

guys and dart up to the ^^^^^^^^ area. When it gets too harry dart back to the

---

area and let your front line teammates absorb the damage. You can stick and move your way to a highly productive hour long life with 100 kills and 0 deaths if you do it right.

that was funny as feck: " best way to survive a Zerg on Zerg battle is to make proper use of your teammates stupidity."...yes, sadly enough it would seem you normally can't go wrong counting on the stupidity of others...lord knows i'm sure many have made "grand overlord" off of my dumb butt...

good illustration @THEDKEXPERIENCE ...amazingly enough - that truly is the secret...

in your honor - a little carlin wisdom to brighten the day...

THEDKEXPERIENCE

@geonsocal

Carlin quotes are instant insightfuls!

PlaceboSoul

Love George carlin.

Mostly for me pvp wins are luck hehe

I'm one of those "older" players, I freely admit my reaction times aren't what they used to be hehehe.
I could get better with experience, but still, there are a lot of really good players out there, and the old fingers don't dance like they used to.

akl77

Patience and never give up. Trying again and again and again of the same thing, travelling the same paths, taking down and defending the same tower again and again.
It really needs patience to be able to do it again and again.
Then wait till the time more people are on your side than enemy side, it's a numbers game, no skills involved I'm sorry.

qsnoopyjr

Predicting typical things people do and countering it.

Inner wall going to go down. Best to let everyone know 'OILS OILS OILS'.

People are so predictable, all you need to do is counter it.

Doesn't take much either, just 4 people to focus on 1 thing. Like focus fire, focus on oils. Yes being in teamspeak helps tremendously.

Hence why, ESO needs to create a voice chat in game. If anything, have voice chat for commander only.

TheForseti

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

and the old fingers don't dance like they used to.

Tell that to Billy Joel.

Strider_Roshin

The three winning factors of PvP:

1. Who has the most destro ults
2. Who has the most numbers
3. Who has the most magplars

geonsocal

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Love George carlin.

Mostly for me pvp wins are luck hehe

I'm one of those "older" players, I freely admit my reaction times aren't what they used to be hehehe.
I could get better with experience, but still, there are a lot of really good players out there, and the old fingers don't dance like they used to.

pvp doesn't beat up my old digits too badly, it's not too hard to set the pace of fighting, particularly if you play solo...

doing undaunted dailies though - ugh, the pain, the pain

mb10

People won't want to admit it but that is facts.

If the larger numbers are organised then the opposition have little to no chance.

Lyserus

Vurian97 wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I have been in the pvp since Monday, and from what I can see, though some of players have good skill and build that they can solo a five Men group （last time my 10 member group are wiped by 3 players and some guards, though Most of us were noob in pvp including me）, the Most important factor is still just about numbers. In the last Few days of this week, EP wiped out DC and get emperor everyday around 4am because they still have a zerg and DC is dead slience on Azura server. Until this morning DC managed to maintain a zerg and wiped out both EP and AD without big effort because the biggest foe we encountered had no more than 5 players.

So in a case where everyone know how pvp working, skill is not the crucial factor but number, which is not something can be altered by one's effort I am a noob in pvp but for now this is the biggest problem I find in PVP

Btw also asking which camp is easiest to get emperor except bwb

I was leading the DC group that flipped the map blue. Haha! It started out with major resistance but as EP & AD kept losing, they started logging out. We eventually just took it all.

Easiest campaign to get Emperor? Haderus!

Vurian! honored to Join that group

Lylith

PlaceboSoul wrote: »

Love George carlin.

Mostly for me pvp wins are luck hehe

I'm one of those "older" players, I freely admit my reaction times aren't what they used to be hehehe.
I could get better with experience, but still, there are a lot of really good players out there, and the old fingers don't dance like they used to.

that's where tactics and situational awareness come in.

i'm slowly learning that, and it's all been 'the hard way.'

many thanks to all those who rez dead players. <bless>