Not very happy that we're forced to gamble...

anitajoneb17_ESO

Duiwel wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO The problem with your entire post is it's trying to explain to me what the system is/ why they are doing it. I think you miss the point. I am stating that I am not happy with the system, I didn't ask for the forums to: "please explain how / why did ZOS do the crown crates, I don't understand"

Well, you asked :

Duiwel wrote: »

My question is simple, why the greed?

and I answered "because ZOS wants to make as much money as possible", plain and simple.

You probably knew such an evidence, but it seems to me that a lot of people still aren't fully aware of what it implies. A seller and a buyer have a common interest in exchanging one product for money, but they're in totally antagonistic positions when it comes to the price of said product.

What you're saying is "Look ZOS, I really wanted the storm atronach and I spent 100$ on those silly crates you forced me to buy in order to get that atro. That's a scam !"
And what I'm saying is "Look ZOS, I will never buy a single of your silly crates because they're a scam".

You're explaining how well the crate system works on you and I'm explaining why it didn't and never will work on me.
As long as people will not take some responsibility for their own choices (i.e. not buy something they think is a scam) things will never change and companies will go on making money in scummy ways... just becaue they can and it works.

I'm sorry you feel kinda unwell and scammed and all but just forget that. We all make mistakes. Just from now on, if you think crown crates are a scam, don't buy a single one of them anymore.

Jitterbug

It's like the lottery. Basically just an extra tax on stupid people.

No offense, I love you lots.

Kaymorolis

I'm kind of glad I happened upon this thread. I was looking at those crates the other day and wondering if they were like the SWToR ones.

JKorr

Duiwel wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO The problem with your entire post is it's trying to explain to me what the system is/ why they are doing it. I think you miss the point. I am stating that I am not happy with the system, I didn't ask for the forums to: "please explain how / why did ZOS do the crown crates, I don't understand"


Enticing people into gambling / something that is even more addictive than gaming or sometimes even drugs is a bad thing and should be condemned as a whole. In fact is shouldn't be legal imo. Not without a gambling license.

Also your analogy about it being a prize is incorrect because:

"A crown crate item isn't a product, ware or service. It is a PRIZE." as you put it, keep in mind that these "prizes" you so bluntly refer them to use to be sold as items / separately. Thus your argument is tremendously flawed and one sided.

I didn't ask for a PRIZE I asked for a Storm atro mount. ( like Turelus, I would also have been happy with any one of them ).

The only items absolutely guaranteed to be in a clown crate are the consumables. You are buying the clown crates for the certainty that you will get consumables, with a small chance of getting a shiny item, and a *very* small chance of getting a special shiny item [the apex reward].

There were well over a hundred pages of feedback on the PTS about the consumables that no one wanted, and how some of the clown crate items were better than what players could make, which broke the "crown store items will never be better than what players can make" statement. What the people doing the monetizing got from all the feedback and suggestions about how they could make the clown crates not abysmally horrible and objectionable was to add a new grind for the uber ambrosia to keep the promise about nothing in the crown store being better than what players could make, and to allow people to trade in the consumables they didn't want, at the exchange of a gem per card worth. They totally ignored anything about allowing people to get rid of the costumes, hair/frills/blades/feathers they didn't want and couldn't use on their characters.

JKorr

People can check the PTS forum for the thread about the crates.

People can also check youtube for the many vids of people opening the clown crates from the PTS tests; everyone who tested on the pts got 5500 crowns a day for at least 8 days to buy crates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahyUuLSs4M4

My guildmaster wanted the purple pig. She figured out how many crates she would need to get the pig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eojQGZsdefM

haute

I've bought about 55 crates to get the mount and yes it was a lot more than what I'd have paid straight for a mount which I want and other stuff which I don't really need.

So for the second season, it will be less thrilling for me since most mounts are simply reskinning the existing models. In longer term, "gamblers" or whosoever will be getting less and less enthusiastic to participate (i.e. paying dearly for a reskinned).

SydneyGrey

JKorr wrote: »

People can also check youtube for the many vids of people opening the clown crates from the PTS tests; everyone who tested on the pts got 5500 crowns a day for at least 8 days to buy crates.

Except none of the videos that were taken from the PTS are accurate any more, because ZOS changed the drop rates on items after a lot of feedback during the beta testing. The drop rates still aren't great, but they're better than they were when it was on the PTS originally.

SydneyGrey

Jitterbug wrote: »

It's like the lottery. Basically just an extra tax on stupid people.

No offense, I love you lots.

Calls everyone stupid.
Says "No offense!"
*Rolls eyes*

The crates are a bad lottery if you're just trying to get one item from them, but if there are a LOT of items you want from them, they are a much better deal. So please don't call people "stupid" because they chose to spend their money this way. I'm sure you spend money on things sometimes that other people would scratch their heads at.

Duiwel

@Kaymorolis yep they're exactly like those.

@JKorr I watched the @Deltia vid & @MissBizz vids when they released em on Youtube, that doesn't mean I don't HAVE to gamble with crates in order to get the mount I want though which is the whole point of this thread I think a lot of you are missing the point here. I remember she was quite sad, but at least she got her piggy!

@SydneyGrey agreed he was just rude, just ignore him. That's why I am not even going to acknowledge his reply.



So I will repeat what has been said twice already by me and twice by Turelus. IF you want to obtain a certain say mount in this case you ARE FORCED to gamble and use the crown crates in order to get it. In other words we're not saying you're forced to buy the crown crates oh no, ZoS is putting a gun against our heads and making us do something.

No! That is not what we're saying, what we are saying however is IF one wishes to own a certain item locked behind the crates you're hands are tied and you're forced into a certain path.

Like a lab rat in a maize and to get to the cheese you have to bribe the scientists, because where they put you down in the maize, there's actually no way to get to the cheese on your own.

Just to reiterate something I mentioned on another thread, IF they didn't make these crates disappear it would feel less forced also.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Duiwel wrote: »

So I will repeat what has been said twice already by me and twice by Turelus. IF you want to obtain a certain say mount in this case you ARE FORCED to gamble and use the crown crates in order to get it.

Wanting something doesn't have to be a dictator.
The crown crates items ARE NOT FOR SALE. They are only available as prizes for the crown crates' lottery.

So if you want one, you have two options :
- Go through the crown crates' RNG and spend up to 100$
- Accept that sometimes you can't get what you want.

The choice is yours, noone forces you to anything.

Duiwel wrote: »

Like a lab rat in a maize and to get to the cheese you have to bribe the scientists, because where they put you down in the maize, there's actually no way to get to the cheese on your own.

Are you implying that your desire for that mount is as imperative and important as food is for an animal, and owning it is part of your most vital survival instincts... ?

In all the discussions about crown crates, what left me somewhat speechless is the predominance of the "But I want that mount" argument. Get rid of this "I want..." and you're free to completely ignore the crates and to enjoy happy gaming. A lab rat cannot escape the maze and needs food. You can escape and you don't need any of the crown crates items. Only thing it takes is to accept that sometimes you don't get what you want.

Darkstorne

Duiwel wrote: »

No! That is not what we're saying, what we are saying however is IF one wishes to own a certain item locked behind the crates you're hands are tied and you're forced into a certain path.

Like a lab rat in a maize and to get to the cheese you have to bribe the scientists, because where they put you down in the maize, there's actually no way to get to the cheese on your own.[/i]

Just to reiterate something I mentioned on another thread, IF they didn't make these crates disappear it would feel less forced also.

LOL what!? Dude, don't compare yourself to a lab rat. You may have dropped over $100 on clown crates, but you're still smarter than a rat.

The issue you seem to have is that you're ignoring VALUE. There are plenty of us in this thread, including myself, who have made it clear that we did want the apex items from the crates, but still chose not to buy them because of the unfair point of sale and value proposition. It's not as simple as you're making it out. It's not a case of "If I want it then I have no choice but to buy it." It's a case of "Okay, I do want this, but is it being sold at a value I'm happy with, and in a method I agree with?"

No-one can tell you that you're wrong for buying crates. You might well be happy with the gambling method, or be fine with paying $100 for a cosmetic digital item. More power to you in that case. But for many of us that's a deal we won't support, and from everything you've been saying it sounds like you're not really happy about it either, and you're suffering from buyer's remorse right now and want to pin the blame on ZOS instead of yourself. If that's the case, learn from this, and next crate season tell yourself "You know what, I've already got a kick-ass mount and it kinda made me feel like **** at that price. I'll stick with the mount I've got thanks, and spend $40 on a huge content expansion this June instead of spending $100 on yet another sparkly mount." Your thunder cat/horse/wolf will look awesome running around in Morrowind, so call it quits here with gambling. No need to fill out an entire stable with apex mounts, or by the end of 2017 you could easily end up spending $500 on mounts alone, assuming you only get one of each apex mount at their average price. And even then you'll never use them all. If you can ignore the (very human) part of your brain that instantly wants all the new shiny things (available for a limited time only!!!) and look at it rationally, you'll probably realize there are far better things to spend that money on, whether it's DLC and expansions for this game, entirely new games (that $100 you spent on your mount could buy you two brand new games) or far more mundane, but also more important, real life necessities like groceries, rent, and a deposit for a mortgage.

Duiwel

@anitajoneb17_ESO You are extremely opinionated & that's a good thing but here's the point of this thread: I am a paying customer / consumer who is unhappy with the direction things are going.
I have a right to give feedback about a product / service I paid for to the provider of said product or service in the hope that they can improve, change or even better their product or service.

If I buy a car and I don't like that I have to pay extra for the GPS inside the console and I recommend they should add it standard in all models I have a right to voice my opinion and suggest it ( in fact thanks to people like that it is now standard in most new cars, similar to the parking sensors).

So if I buy a BMW and the console does not have a GPS and I want a car with a GPS but the car is already too expensive in my opinion but I want a GPS in my car I should not pay extra for it because I feel the GPS is not "worth the extra price" even though I would be screwing myself in the process by abstaining from paying extra? Come on guys... Get real! If you want something in life you will take it, it doesn't mean you can't complain or vocie your opinion about it. Nor does it mean you cannot give feedback about your disapproval.

Just as your opinion matters so does mine. So I would appreciate it if you could stop undermining my opinion.
You have both made your point countless times in this thread.

Beardimus

Dont get the thinking on this. They are a business, you don't NEED any of the stuff. If you hate the gambling practice don't buy the things.

The crates are purely a commercial move to make money, why the outrage? Why the entitlement feeling?

If you are gambling to buy stuff that was once a time limited promotion of course its going to cost more. And rightly so to those that paid the premium to get them in the window.

Appreciate people seem very upset about these things I just don't get the logic behind feeling we have a right to have the things for the prices we dictate, to me that's odd.

Jitterbug

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

It's like the lottery. Basically just an extra tax on stupid people.

No offense, I love you lots.

Calls everyone stupid.
Says "No offense!"
*Rolls eyes*

The crates are a bad lottery if you're just trying to get one item from them, but if there are a LOT of items you want from them, they are a much better deal. So please don't call people "stupid" because they chose to spend their money this way. I'm sure you spend money on things sometimes that other people would scratch their heads at.

Yeah I know, sorry. It was a Family Guy reference. I seriously didn't mean offense.

Duiwel

Beardimus wrote: »

Why the entitlement feeling?

Is it entitlement to request that things be put up for sale for a set price to purchase instead of forcing people to gamble for the same product that use to be sold for a set price? What other jokes do you have?

Purrmaid

But.. I like gambling.
I bought so many crates that in the end, I could buy a 400 mount if I wanted. But I didn't and spent it on other stuff.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Duiwel wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO You are extremely opinionated & that's a good thing but here's the point of this thread: I am a paying customer / consumer who is unhappy with the direction things are going.
I have a right to give feedback about a product / service I paid for to the provider of said product or service in the hope that they can improve, change or even better their product or service.

If I buy a car and I don't like that I have to pay extra for the GPS inside the console and I recommend they should add it standard in all models I have a right to voice my opinion and suggest it ( in fact thanks to people like that it is now standard in most new cars, similar to the parking sensors).

So if I buy a BMW and the console does not have a GPS and I want a car with a GPS but the car is already too expensive in my opinion but I want a GPS in my car I should not pay extra for it because I feel the GPS is not "worth the extra price" even though I would be screwing myself in the process by abstaining from paying extra? Come on guys... Get real! If you want something in life you will take it, it doesn't mean you can't complain or vocie your opinion about it. Nor does it mean you cannot give feedback about your disapproval.

Just as your opinion matters so does mine. So I would appreciate it if you could stop undermining my opinion.
You have both made your point countless times in this thread.

I'm not expressing an opinion here, @Duiwel . I am explaining FACTS.

A buyer and a seller have antagonistic positions when it comes to pricing. The buyer wants to buy as low as possible, the seller wants to sell as high as possible. By explaining to a seller how badly you want the product, you're only comforting the seller's confidence that he can keep his price high, or even higher.

By explaining to ZOS how badly you want the APEX crate rewards, and by spending 100$ on crates for an atro mount, you've just proven that ZOS' strategy regarding crown crates works perfectly. If your point is to :

Duiwel wrote: »

give feedback about a product / service I paid for to the provider of said product or service in the hope that they can improve, change or even better their product or service.

then you're illogical and counter-productive.

Hoping to change ZOS' strategy with your attitude is like steering the wheel to the right while hoping the car will turn left.

Duiwel wrote: »

If I buy a car and I don't like that I have to pay extra for the GPS inside the console and I recommend they should add it standard in all models I have a right to voice my opinion and suggest it ( in fact thanks to people like that it is now standard in most new cars, similar to the parking sensors).

GPS being now standard in all car models is NOT due to people accepting to pay extra for a GPS while complaining about it. It's due to people refusing to buy the entire car if the GPS is not included.

Duiwel

@anitajoneb17_ESO Fair enough I agree you were stating facts, however so was I



Fact 1:
When the crown store was introduced you could exchange money for cosmetic items such as exclusive mounts

Fact 2:
Premium mounts were often sold for a limited time or for an escalated crown price.

Fact 3:
They made millions of $Dollars$ selling cosmetic items with the old system.

Fact 4:

If you want a premium Elder Scrolls online mount (currently classified as Apex rewards) you have to buy them through Crown crates.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Well, you asked :

Duiwel wrote: »

My question is simple, why the greed?

and I answered "because ZOS wants to make as much money as possible", plain and simple.

What are you trying to answer when the first line of this very thread confirms that I understand that? So I don't get why you are trying to explain to me it will make them money.

Duiwel wrote: »

I get that the crown crates will help you guys make a lot of money however...

Once again they made plenty of money with the previous system and that is also a fact.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

What you're saying is "Look ZOS, I really wanted the storm atronach and I spent 100$ on those silly crates you forced me to buy in order to get that atro. That's a scam !"

Please quote me where I said it's a scam, What I did is I voiced my disapproval over the fact that we're forced to gamble for items that use to be purchasable..

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And what I'm saying is "Look ZOS, I will never buy a single of your silly crates because they're a scam".

I commend you for your bravery, but another thing you will never do is have any of the new mounts.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As long as people will not take some responsibility for their own choice

I think you are completely missing my point here and getting personal. I will reiterate this statement once again: I AM VOICING DISAPPROVAL OVER THE FACT THAT WE ARE FORCED TO GAMBLE NOW IF WE WANT NICE MOUNTS.
(not angry, just want to make this point clear)

I did not say I was scammed. I did not say it's ZoS's fault I spent my own money, what I did say is that it's their fault due to greed that I spent more than I did in the past - which is a FACT btw. I did not blame anyone and I did not deny my own responsibility, if I did quote me on it please. [/ist]

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm sorry you feel kinda unwell and scammed and all but just forget that. We all make mistakes. Just from now on, if you think crown crates are a scam, don't buy a single one of them anymore.

I agree with you anita and in fact I did avoid these crates for two months, but the moment they put up that notification ( 2 DAYS LEFT) I gave in and my

It's just sad that we're either not going to have all these nice mounts moving forward and mostly either super rich or new players who haven't spent money on crown crates will be the majority running around / riding around on these things.

Instead of everyone who loves this game and are willing to spend 3k crowns - 4,5k crowns. I mean I didn't like the price of the Dro'matha but I didn't boycott it I supported them so they would make more cool looking special effect mount ( regardless of the lore, it remains an MMO & special effect mounts are always a vice in MMO's

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

...but here's the point of this thread: I am a paying customer / consumer who is unhappy with the direction things are going.
I have a right to give feedback about a product / service I paid for to the provider of said product or service in the hope that they can improve, change or even better their product or service.

I'm not expressing an opinion here, @Duiwel . I am explaining FACTS.

So am I see this post.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

then you're illogical and counter-productive.

I will not get personal

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The crown crates items ARE NOT FOR SALE. They are only available as prizes for the crown crates' lottery.

Fact: Those type of items use to be for sale without having to gamble for them, which is what I am not happy about hence the title: "Not very happy that we're forced to gamble"

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

So if you want one, you have two options :
- Go through the crown crates' RNG and spend up to 100$
- Accept that sometimes you can't get what you want.

The choice is yours, noone forces you to anything.

I agree with these facts, however that does not mean I do not have the right to raise awareness at my displeasure of their method of business.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Are you implying that your desire for that mount is as imperative and important as food is for an animal, and owning it is part of your most vital survival instincts... ?

I most certainly am not, scientists feed their lab animals, the cheese is merely a reward for certain experiments. So that metaphor has nothing to do with survival. It is about reward, as a gamer who spends hundreds of hours in an MMO I like many other spend my money on cosmetic items as a reward for myself.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

In all the discussions about crown crates, what left me somewhat speechless is the predominance of the "But I want that mount" argument.

You are forcing your views onto others, while Stoicism is a valid belief, I do not think it's healthy.

Your recommendation is noted. However we are all human beings, we're never satisfied, we always want more ect.


So I will always want a new mount & I don't have a problem with paying for it. I am in no way telling ZoS to give us mounts that we can buy with in game gold. As I said in my first line: I understand they need to make money. I am willing to pay for it, but let me buy the exact item I want. Do not force me to gamble for it & I have explained approximately three times that they DO FORCE YOU TO GAMBLE for it if you want to obtain it. So could everyone please stop saying they are not forcing you to gamble and read?

I enjoy seeing your different opinions everyone and I do agree that we should just protest it, I admit in this post I did for 2 months. The problem is there exists a thing (forgot what it's called), it's a gambling phenomenon that you spend more money to recover the losses you already made thereby just losing even more.

That is exactly what these crates are, you buy 15 crates and hope for the best, don't get it, then buy 15 more log off that character because why not and log on another and hope for the best and no luck, by now you have already spent so much so what will 15 more do? This is the method I disapprove of. Why not just give us fixed prices, people will still buy mounts heck people would spend the same amount as they are now. The only difference is they'd own more cosmetic items.

(edit, fixed a quote)

anitajoneb17_ESO

Duiwel wrote: »

Fact 3:
They made millions of $Dollars$ selling cosmetic items with the old system.
Fact 4:
If you want a premium Elder Scrolls online mount (currently classified as Apex rewards) you have to buy them through Crown crates.
.../...
Once again they made plenty of money with the previous system and that is also a fact.

We don't know how much money they made on the previous "direct purchase" model, but you're probably right that they made a lot. We can safely assume, though, that they make EVEN MORE money with the crate gambling model - else they wouldn't do it at all.
Why would they choose a system that makes less money over a system that makes more money ?

Duiwel wrote: »

Please quote me where I said it's a scam, What I did is I voiced my disapproval over the fact that we're forced to gamble for items that use to be purchasable..
.../...
I will reiterate this statement once again: I AM VOICING DISAPPROVAL OVER THE FACT THAT WE ARE FORCED TO GAMBLE NOW IF WE WANT NICE MOUNTS.
(not angry, just want to make this point clear)
.../...
that does not mean I do not have the right to raise awareness at my displeasure of their method of business.

Companies don't care what you think, what anyone thinks, they care about what you do, what people do. Feedback is only relevant if it explains concrete purchasing behaviour - or lack thereof. Customer satisfaction matters only as far as it translates into sales and profit.
You are of course totally free to express dissatisfaction, but ZOS will not listen to you, nor to your suggestion to bring back premium stuff for direct purchase, as long as the crates prove to sell better and make more profit than direct purchase.

Duiwel wrote: »

but the moment they put up that notification ( 2 DAYS LEFT) I gave in and my

Yep, that's another marketing trick called "artificial scarcity", and, unfortunately... it works very well...

Duiwel wrote: »

It is about reward, as a gamer who spends hundreds of hours in an MMO I like many other spend my money on cosmetic items as a reward for myself.

MMOs are a somewhat shady business in my humble opinion (yes, this time it's an opinion ) As much as I like and enjoy ESO, I am well aware that the system is designed at every corner to direct me towards the crown store, ESO+ and other stuff to spend real cash on. I haven't played any other MMO but from what I read on this forum, it seems that Zenimax is being overall more fair and honest about it than other developers. But still, I try to stay away from the cosmetic-shiny stuff (at least the stuff that requires spending cash) because I know how tricky-catchy it is. I understand that other people feel differently about cosmetic stuff and that's okay, it's their money after all. But I want people in general to be fully aware that they don't have to buy, and that the choice of not buying is always there.

Duiwel wrote: »

However we are all human beings, we're never satisfied, we always want more ect.

That is where we disagree, I think. The "always wanting more" isn't part of "human nature", it's a cultural manipulation forced onto us by marketers since the beginning of the era of consumerism. Another approach is to be happy with what one already has. That's promoted as "wisdom" by many cultures and people, and that's what I try to learn for myself.

Duiwel wrote: »

So I will always want a new mount

Fine. But you can't blame ZOS for wanting to make the most possible money out of this neverending wish, can you ?

Duiwel wrote: »

The problem is there exists a thing (forgot what it's called), it's a gambling phenomenon that you spend more money to recover the losses you already made thereby just losing even more.

In general, it's called "addiction"... specifically, it's also driven by a lack of general understanding for statistical values (like, if something has 1% chance of success, people will believe that 100 attempts will guarantee success, but that's not how it really works). They have the illusion that each failed attempt is a step towards the one successful attempt they're looking for.
Anyway we both agree that the gambling crates are not nice, and yes it definitely isn't nice from ZOS to gate nice stuff behind this gambling strategy, but ZOS will not change a thing, because crates sell and grant them more profit than direct purchases.

If you really think that your feedback will be powerful enough to change that... go ahead.

Duiwel wrote: »

Why not just give us fixed prices, people will still buy mounts heck people would spend the same amount as they are now. The only difference is they'd own more cosmetic items.

... which is what ZOS doesn't want. ZOS doesn't want us to have more cosmetic items. They want us to have less of them, so that each one feels more valuable (back to topic "artificial scarcity"). Also, general player mentality tends towards this, too : people seem to enjoy it when their cosmetic stuff is rare or exclusive and makes them stand out and feel "special".

JWKe

Well we don't call them Zo$ for nothing. They know they have control of a great i.p. As can do whatever they want and people would still play the game. It's like the physically abusive husband whose wife still sticks around since he has lots of $$$.

Best YOU could do is to bite the real bullet and leave the game all together. A divorce from this toxic relationship is what I'm suggesting. Quite hypocritical coming from me a person who is still playing a game. Haha. There are many honeymoon periods for me in this relationships and I always end up going to bed bruised and beaten. But it's ok. $$$.

Duiwel

@anitajoneb17_ESO I fully agree with your last post & also thank you for reading my entire one.

@JWKe I love the honeymoon periods

have a nice day everyone. I think we said as much as can be said, for / against / against but still supporting the same system/ ect.

Violynne

Duiwel wrote: »

The reason for this post is I want an Atro mount, yet I am forced to gamble for it until I get it.

You are removing the crates in 2 days so I decided to bite the bullet and buy 15 more this morning...

...so I bought 2 more

Long story short after 60 crates total this year...

My question is simple, why the greed?

More? 60+?

You literally answered your own question. ZoS knows full well people like you exist, those who "take a chance" and don't seem to care about your money enough to realize what's really at stake.

I concur 20k Crowns is excessive, but this isn't what you bought. You and everyone else bought chances, not items.

Had this notion been prevalent before spending a single amount of currency, this may have stayed the "Buy" button press, but alas, it seems one's own personal greed met its match with the overwhelming greed of a virtual chance.

There's a saying in gambling: never bet against the house. You'll end up losing in the long run.

Crown Crates are gambling, no ands, ifs, or buts about it. And like gambling, people will always be foolish to throw their money down the drain in the hopes of scoring.

The only difference between card gambling and Crown Crates: at least you can look up the odds of winning a hand online. No odds have ever been posed on Crown Crates, meaning chances could be less than a 1% success rate.

You can't cry "greed" when it's your own that started your quest to losing.

Duiwel

@Violynne;3856901 The replies in the thread as well as the responses might interest you also

GoldenLight

After reading this I do see that the crown crates are a bad deal with the return on investment for some. I personally would not use them as they seem to be a waste of money and am very happy using the horses I bought with in game gold. Still, I can see everyone's point about them.

I would say that selling crates at different levels might be a better approach for ESO.

Basic Crates = 200 Crowns (50% chance for medium level item and 5% chance for high level item)
Exceptional Crates = 400 Crowns (guaranteed 1 medium level item and 25% chance for high level item)
Legendary Crates = 800 Crowns (guarnateed 2 medium level items and 50% chance for high level item)

Just a thought for a way to possibly make it more fair but as I don't use crown crates; this is all theory and guesses on chances.

Rickter

no one is forcing you to do anything

Violynne

Duiwel wrote: »

@Violynne;3856901 The replies in the thread as well as the responses might interest you also

Oh, I've read them, but they're all coming off as the same thing: you didn't get what you want, so it's gambling, and that's "wrong".

By now, the majority of people playing the game know precisely what Crown Crates are and what they have to offer: a random chance at winning.

Unfortunately, people are focusing on the "reward", not the actual purpose of Crown Crates. I've also read the post regarding the "punishment", but again, if the focus on Crown Crates is the reward, you're not understanding Crown Crates.

Let me put it like this: Let's say you play the $1 lottery. You think to yourself, "Meh, it's a dollar". You scratch the first one and get back $1. No loss, right?

So you try again. This time, you get $5. Woo hoo! But something odd happens here. Because what happens next is "Now I can spend $5 I didn't have, so let's keep trying those odds."

If you play 5 more times, and get only $2 back, you'll see it as a loss despite the fact the rewards were given, even if all 5 chances didn't return something.

That's called "playing against the odds", and it could have very well ended as nothing returned, or 5 more currencies returned, without any guarantee on what would return.

PLAYING AGAINST CROWN CRATES IS A WASTE OF MONEY!

Yet, people gleefully throw away their disposable income, and many complain about the results. This makes sense, because 1) You don't know the odds to make a formal decision and 2) There's no actual table of possible returns (all lotteries must distribute this table and odds, by the way).

ZoS is literally taking advantage of people who can't control themselves, and this is only made evident in that they will always "reward" something, even if the player doesn't want/need the item returned.

I am more boggled by how anyone can throw away their money like this, frankly. With the Crown Store, we have a fixed price on a specific item. Crown Crates offer none of this, meaning most people are literally wasting their money on a chance.

Sure, some will walk away very happy as their gamble paid off, but the majority, just like in real life, won't be happy.

I know it's probably not fair to punish the player, but in this regard, they must be held 100% accountable for their actions. ZoS doesn't force anyone to buy anything, and to purposely play against the odds while knowing full well the disastrous returns from other players makes it difficult for me to have any sympathy for people upset over the "gambling" of Crown Crates.

As the movies says: "The only way to win is not to play" and until people stop doing this, ZoS will continue to take advantage of them.

MissBizz

Crown crates suck.

I haven't bought any since I made that video. I was pretty disgusted that I do want quite a few items, but didn't naturally receive any of them via the crates.

Look on the bright side. Before crates I dropped money for cosmetic pixels constantly. Dro'matha mount? Didn't flinch. Frost mare horse? Once again, didn't flinch, bought it. If there was anything I thought I "might use, eventually" that was leaving the crown store... I'd buy it all.

Now there's a TON of items that I will never ever be able to have - unless I gamble. To get those items - you are forced to gamble (I'm not saying you NEED them, but gambling/blind bags is the only way to obtain main items now). So... suddenly I realize, if I can't have it all, I won't.

So I didn't buy the elk. I didn't buy all the hairstyles. I don't buy a lot of stuff, that I know I would have if crown crates didn't exist.

Zos actually gets less money from me now.

Purrmaid

What some people don't seem to understand, is that the company cannot please everyone. And while some go around screaming about moneygrabbing grubs. There ARE those out there that greatly enjoy the gamble.

I'm one of those people. My husband is another. I've picked up a few months, and a few more pets over the years I've played ESO. But I'd only buy things if I wanted to use them right there. And frankly, the crowns from ESO+ kept me busy a-plenty for that.

But the moment I came back this last time and saw crown crates? We spent all our crowns on that, and it was a fun experience. I loved the twist of the card-dealer, how he'd talk to us and such.

And I didn't even want the storm mounts... (the next mounts however, my god they're glorious! I must have one!)
And it's simple: You don't like gambling, don't gamble! Look at the other mounts!

JWKe

I think at the end of the day it all comes down to valueing oneself and how much YOU respect YOURSELF as a customer. As the analogy I gave with the wife. The wife probably does not realize her VALUE and believes that she cannot make it off by herself without her abusive husband with the $$$ and so she sticks around.

Transversely (I'm not even sure if I'm using the word correctly but it sounds correct), we here as the customer have the POWER to NOT buy into these crown crates or as I like to say clown crates to show our displeasement of the product. Quite an overused aphorism but very relevant I feel here and it goes "money speaks." I think with this also is that I often here the idiotic excuse folks will use to assuage themselves to buy more into this gambling product is the phrase "i think Zo$ has put out great content and I would like to support them further" and so that ramblin' gambler keeps on gambling on. But, the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day Zo$ offers these folks no sympathy other than the miserable purple gem exchange rates. I think we have to honestly ask ourselves in terms of the money we're willing to give our favorite studios "how much is too much?" And "is this money I'm giving, given willingly?" "Or am I am being gutted to do so?" I am a true BELIEVER that a HEALTHY transaction should leave both parties feeling good after the transaction. Of course this maybe subjective but both parties here have to be honest with their evaluation. From what i see here however is as you can see from players who spent $100 on the crates and not get what they want the transaction is not at all healthy.

I think with this respect some may make the argument that "hey, but look at him he only made a purchase of 5 clown crates and got the mount he wanted he seems happy!" But, then I would disagree and say yes but that individual is simply ONE of many and I feel that with all companies it really comes down to quality control of their products. And if said company HAS the power to take steps to reduce the factor of displeasement they should. I feel that the gambling system of the clown crates is absolutely unnecessary and goes against this idea.

I think the issue here is suffered across the gaming industry. The fact of the matter is that players just lack coordination to function as one cohesive unit to show our displeasement of the product. And so we see time and time again $tudios KNOWINGLY releasing shoddy product and players continuously biting the bullet due to some still falling into the preorder hype. As they say divide and conquer and we as gamers and customers are divided and are being conquered. These people know they can cut corners and are cutting them.

Duiwel

MissBizz's attitude is pretty much how I was and now after this how I will also become.

This is the point of this thread to raise awereness even more so they know and possibly they will revert back to their old ways

Violynne wrote: »

Let me put it like this: Let's say you play the $1 lottery. You think to yourself, "Meh, it's a dollar". You scratch the first one and get back $1. No loss, right?

So you try again. This time, you get $5. Woo hoo! But something odd happens here. Because what happens next is "Now I can spend $5 I didn't have, so let's keep trying those odds."

If you play 5 more times, and get only $2 back, you'll see it as a loss despite the fact the rewards were given, even if all 5 chances didn't return something.

The problem with your argument is this:

Let's say the lottery has a vacation grand prize worth $20, you have to spend $25 to be eligible though... But there are other guaranteed prizes that you are aware can be won also (which justifies them asking more for a ticket than the grand prize).

This is the flawed argument you people with the "lotto" assessment make. No mount has ever cost 5,5k period. Thus flawed argument. So please instead of trying to simplify things by explaining to me as a child do the math and come back to me.