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Morrowind: Slaves
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FluffyReachWitch✭✭✭✭Oh for the love of Mara. The writing in the game so far shows that slavery is evil and owning people is not something the Vestige should aspire to. Plenty of quests demonstrate this. Plenty of side stories and dialogue bits indicate this. Heck, slavery is part of Molag Bal's sphere. And it's evil regardless of it being "part of Dunmer culture to own slaves" (when has that ever made it okay? never.). It's one thing for it to exist in the setting or for there to be important commentary about it through the writing; it's another thing entirely to give players that option and then basically condone it.
"But what about the Dark Brotherhood and all the combat in general?" TES is about dungeon crawling and combat. That's it. That's the game. And as for the Dark Brotherhood, most people actually aren't sitting around, fantasizing about creeping around with a murder-knife, and trying to justify it with false information about "why killing people with a murder-knife isn't really that bad" or "murder-knives here aren't so bad compared to other murder-knives throughout history". -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Well, in Vvardenfell, we have this thing called the Morag Tong.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »If they will have any slaves - consider them free already.
If they will have any slavers - consider them dead already.
Shadowscale is coming to Morrowind...
Beat me to it . But yes , we will free the slaves and take moral high ground by training them in our cult of Assasins and killers . Take THAT Dunmer society !
Heard of it?
No?
And those pathetic Shadowscales won't hear them coming either.
Morag Tong ? You mean that girl in Kvatch that needed my help so the Dark Brotherehood didn't hunt her down and kill her ? The one with the long winded speech for her target in his pajamas before killing him ? The one that got down to 25% health while me an Raz were killing the Sweetroll killer NPCs and I had to run over and kill her target while she took a knee ?
Ya I heard of them . -
AlwaysOnFire✭✭✭✭FluffyReachWitch wrote: »Most people actually aren't sitting around, fantasizing about creeping around with a murder-knife, and trying to justify it with false information about "why killing people with a murder-knife isn't really that bad" or "murder-knives here aren't so bad compared to other murder-knives throughout history".
Exactly. Nobody is shaking their finger, "if you really wanted to be morally pure, you should have let molag bal kill, torture, enslave you! because fighting or killing is always bad!"
that's why we have combat but not slavery in the game. The game is about "if you try to enslave a bunch of people, they will be like 'not today satan' and come at you with knives."
The game is not going to allow you to do something that its very narrative punishes with either death, or the knowledge of death in 'future' installments of the game universe.Edited by AlwaysOnFire on February 24, 2017 8:11PM -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyAlwaysOnFire wrote: »FluffyReachWitch wrote: »Most people actually aren't sitting around, fantasizing about creeping around with a murder-knife, and trying to justify it with false information about "why killing people with a murder-knife isn't really that bad" or "murder-knives here aren't so bad compared to other murder-knives throughout history".
Exactly. Nobody is shaking their finger, "if you really wanted to be morally pure, you should have let molag bal kill, torture, enslave you! because fighting or killing is always bad!"
that's why we have combat but not slavery in the game. The game is about "if you try to enslave a bunch of people, they will be like 'not today satan' and come at you with knives."
The game is not going to allow you to do something that its very narrative punishes with either death, or the knowledge of death in 'future' installments of the game universe.
I don't know about all that. The game clearly tells you murder and stealing are bad things, but it still lets you do it.
Why? There aren't any victims. It's a video game and what you see happening on the screen is a visual representation of a bunch of mathematical formulas working in the background. The characters don't exist.
The topic of "owning slaves" in ESO is a fun thought experiment, but there's no tangible victim and the morality debate is only as applicable as the thought experiment itself.
So, which is worse? Being a slave or being murdered? They both sound terrible to me. -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, Morrowind will let me have slaves
How adorable.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Well, in Vvardenfell, we have this thing called the Morag Tong.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »If they will have any slaves - consider them free already.
If they will have any slavers - consider them dead already.
Shadowscale is coming to Morrowind...
Beat me to it . But yes , we will free the slaves and take moral high ground by training them in our cult of Assasins and killers . Take THAT Dunmer society !
Heard of it?
No?
And those pathetic Shadowscales won't hear them coming either.
Morag Tong ? You mean that girl in Kvatch that needed my help so the Dark Brotherehood didn't hunt her down and kill her ? The one with the long winded speech for her target in his pajamas before killing him ? The one that got down to 25% health while me an Raz were killing the Sweetroll killer NPCs and I had to run over and kill her target while she took a knee ?
Ya I heard of them .
Assuming that the whole of the Tong is no better than their newest member.
Let those lizard-beasts come. The Tong and the Three will be ready. And House Telvanni. And House Dres.
Shadowscale slaves... that has a nice ring to it, and I would be able to fetch an even higher price in the Tel Ahrun slave markets as well!
Yep, let those dirty lizards come to Vvardenfell. We'll be ready.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates! -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyLike I said, you can buy slaves in the crown store already.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom -
MercTheMage✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buy
1:04 Argonian Slave spotted, Slavery CONFIRMED!Edited by MercTheMage on February 24, 2017 9:22PMYou just going to stand there like a lemon? -
Muramasa89✭✭✭I recall seeing a slave or two in the latest video (showing off some Warden stuff, such as the cliff racer attack). I don't know whether to be worried or not over the people getting butthurt over pixel slaves. You're sounding awfully like those idiots that tried to get certain vidya banned for "promoting violence". If you can't separate fantasy from reality, that's your problem.
Edit: and the guy above me snipes me shows what I meant in my first sentence.Edited by Muramasa89 on February 24, 2017 9:26PM -
theher0not✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyTommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Sorry for off topic but according to the lore shadowsales are trained for assassins since birth. Training freed slaves for assassins won't work I am afraid. But still... take THAT Dunmer society ! xDRohamad_Ali wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »If they will have any slaves - consider them free already.
If they will have any slavers - consider them dead already.
Shadowscale is coming to Morrowind...
Beat me to it . But yes , we will free the slaves and take moral high ground by training them in our cult of Assasins and killers . Take THAT Dunmer society !
They could still be trained by the Dark Brotherhood (or even shadowscales), they wouldn't become shadowscales but they could still become deadly assassins.
On a side note
Though one thing I hope they add are assistants of all the different races (preferably one male and one female). Then people who wants slaves could RP that they are slaves. And people who want one of a specifc race for other reasons(for example for the house) could get one.Edited by theher0not on February 24, 2017 9:32PM -
MercTheMage✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyMuramasa89 wrote: »I recall seeing a slave or two in the latest video (showing off some Warden stuff, such as the cliff racer attack). I don't know whether to be worried or not over the people getting butthurt over pixel slaves. You're sounding awfully like those idiots that tried to get certain vidya banned for "promoting violence". If you can't separate fantasy from reality, that's your problem.
Edit: and the guy above me snipes me shows what I meant in my first sentence.
Hahaha sorryYou just going to stand there like a lemon? -
Morvane✭✭✭✭Yes, Morrowind will let me have slavesKnootewoot wrote: »I heard from a reliable source that players who are Argonian or Khajit automaticly get chained and transported to a slave camp upon entering Vvardenfell. Other players can then go to auctions and buy the other player and have them as slaves so they can harvest resources and clean their houses.
Even people who are not one of the beastraces but have a beast-alt or have ever played as beastrace will be enslaved.
2 argonian girls to my manor, please.DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyMercTheMage wrote: »Should it have slaves? God yes
Will it have slaves? Probs not
Hey hey hey now.
I got a cumma sum laude in marketing, so lucky for you we can start making games great again.
Theres 2 marketing strategies, right now they are doing PUSH strategy on you.
They throw out whatever garbage they want and you are forced to eat it.
We need to work together and start enforcing a PULL strategy, its where you create so much demand, they have no choice to do it because its what everyone is talking about.
If Morrowind is going to be garbage, dont buy it. Instead talk about what YOU WANT, not what garbage they putting out.
You talk about their garbage, THEY WIN.
When I say garbage, I'm talking about traditional MMORPG RED OCEAN Strategy, they use. "NEW ZONE!!" "NEW BOSS" "NEW GEAR" "NEW SPELLS", thats it.
***How about making Morrowind like the actual game Morrowind. How about new dynamics, like traditional 'jumping', yall remember that scroll 1000 extra pts in jumping? Yall remember spell that causes NPCs to attack each other? Yall remember spell levitate? Yall remember running super fast that your flying? Yall remember.... Buying slaves in Telvanni area??
How are they going to make Morrowind? Are you going to buy into it? Is that what you really want? If they make money throwing nonsense at you... They going to keep doing it. When you are lax and OKAY with nonsense they going to keep throwing minimal effort DLC at you.
Time to start raising standards
What does this even mean? -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
How adorable.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Well, in Vvardenfell, we have this thing called the Morag Tong.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »If they will have any slaves - consider them free already.
If they will have any slavers - consider them dead already.
Shadowscale is coming to Morrowind...
Beat me to it . But yes , we will free the slaves and take moral high ground by training them in our cult of Assasins and killers . Take THAT Dunmer society !
Heard of it?
No?
And those pathetic Shadowscales won't hear them coming either.
Morag Tong ? You mean that girl in Kvatch that needed my help so the Dark Brotherehood didn't hunt her down and kill her ? The one with the long winded speech for her target in his pajamas before killing him ? The one that got down to 25% health while me an Raz were killing the Sweetroll killer NPCs and I had to run over and kill her target while she took a knee ?
Ya I heard of them .
Assuming that the whole of the Tong is no better than their newest member.
Let those lizard-beasts come. The Tong and the Three will be ready. And House Telvanni. And House Dres.
Shadowscale slaves... that has a nice ring to it, and I would be able to fetch an even higher price in the Tel Ahrun slave markets as well!
Yep, let those dirty lizards come to Vvardenfell. We'll be ready.
The day I arrive in Marrowind the streets will be paved in the blood of all those who oppose the Night Mother and Sithis . No contract will go unsettled . The Listener has heard what has been written . We know the Morag tong . We know ... everything . Hail Sithis ! -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyDRXHarbinger wrote: »Slavery gets *** done iirc.
Actually, no it does not. In fact, it's more damaging to your economy and expansion as a civilization than it helps.
The people you enslave could be people you hire. If you hire people, those people then have wages they spend, meaning there is A, a drive to make your buisness more successfull, and B, a circulation of funds from your buisness to the rest of the economy. In order for your civilization to grow, the workers who make more than enough to feed themselves need to be able to spend that money on luxuries, so that money can then go into development, and so on and so fourth. It's a symbiotic relationship, one which slavery kills one side of. There's many ways in which Morrowind slavery does not make sense. If Saltrice is morrowinds main export, then...quite frankly Dres should not only be one of the poorest houses, but one of the most ransacked. In fact, alot of things about morrowind slavery dont make sense, economically house Dres makes no sense.
...That said, the fact is people are sick freaks who think they need to own slaves in video games. Seek professional mental help people.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 25, 2017 1:14AM -
Llaren_Uvayn✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyMercTheMage wrote: »Should it have slaves? God yes
Will it have slaves? Probs not
Hey hey hey now.
I got a cumma sum laude in marketing, so lucky for you we can start making games great again.
Theres 2 marketing strategies, right now they are doing PUSH strategy on you.
They throw out whatever garbage they want and you are forced to eat it.
We need to work together and start enforcing a PULL strategy, its where you create so much demand, they have no choice to do it because its what everyone is talking about.
If Morrowind is going to be garbage, dont buy it. Instead talk about what YOU WANT, not what garbage they putting out.
You talk about their garbage, THEY WIN.
When I say garbage, I'm talking about traditional MMORPG RED OCEAN Strategy, they use. "NEW ZONE!!" "NEW BOSS" "NEW GEAR" "NEW SPELLS", thats it.
***How about making Morrowind like the actual game Morrowind. How about new dynamics, like traditional 'jumping', yall remember that scroll 1000 extra pts in jumping? Yall remember spell that causes NPCs to attack each other? Yall remember spell levitate? Yall remember running super fast that your flying? Yall remember.... Buying slaves in Telvanni area??
How are they going to make Morrowind? Are you going to buy into it? Is that what you really want? If they make money throwing nonsense at you... They going to keep doing it. When you are lax and OKAY with nonsense they going to keep throwing minimal effort DLC at you.
Time to start raising standards.
lol is this for real?PS4 / EU
Sadryn Hlervu: Warden tank
Llaren Uvayn: Templar healer and faithful Tribunal servant
Ashanabi Addunipu: Ashlander mercinary from the grazelands -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyUriel_Nocturne wrote: »
How adorable.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Well, in Vvardenfell, we have this thing called the Morag Tong.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »If they will have any slaves - consider them free already.
If they will have any slavers - consider them dead already.
Shadowscale is coming to Morrowind...
Beat me to it . But yes , we will free the slaves and take moral high ground by training them in our cult of Assasins and killers . Take THAT Dunmer society !
Heard of it?
No?
And those pathetic Shadowscales won't hear them coming either.
Morag Tong ? You mean that girl in Kvatch that needed my help so the Dark Brotherehood didn't hunt her down and kill her ? The one with the long winded speech for her target in his pajamas before killing him ? The one that got down to 25% health while me an Raz were killing the Sweetroll killer NPCs and I had to run over and kill her target while she took a knee ?
Ya I heard of them .
Assuming that the whole of the Tong is no better than their newest member.
Let those lizard-beasts come. The Tong and the Three will be ready. And House Telvanni. And House Dres.
Shadowscale slaves... that has a nice ring to it, and I would be able to fetch an even higher price in the Tel Ahrun slave markets as well!
Yep, let those dirty lizards come to Vvardenfell. We'll be ready.
And then the red year came, when both the empire, and the living gods were gone, the two big major deterrants to a full scale invasion and burning were removed, and the Dunmer got their asses kicked so hard thousands were displaced.
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Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyI think there will be slavery but not that the player can have. There's just some things that are too tasteless. Will there be baby murder in Morrowind? There might be npcs that do something like that but I doubt they would add it for the player to do. -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, Morrowind will let me have slavesWe should all own a few argonian slaves
as is customary and is proper, especially for us whom are Telvanni and also dark elf.
i salute you and thank you for the support.best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.
worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor. -
Celas_Dranacea✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyMercTheMage wrote: »Celas_Dranacea wrote: »MythicEmperor wrote: »Celas_Dranacea wrote: »This is not about lore, more about wanting to fulfill some power fantasy. No thanks!
No; it is about successfully roleplaying an established aspect of a race's culture.MercTheMage wrote: »Celas_Dranacea wrote: »This is not about lore, more about wanting to fulfill some power fantasy. No thanks!
Yes. I forgot, ESO isn't about fantasy at all.
Chillax homegurl, no one wants to enslave you.
It's just a game.
I'm a dude and personally I don't need ZOS wasting time on coding some "slave" feature for a small minority of people who are interested in some kinda slave-owner RP.
If ZOS wanted to improve ESO's RP value there's many other things they can do that would be more widely popular/useful than making it so you can own slaves.
Yes, Dunmer slavery is a part of the lore. No, expanding on slavery as some kinda feature for players to experience / participate in should not be a priority.
I stand by what I said, calm thy selfCelas_Dranacea wrote: »This is not about lore, more about wanting to fulfill some power fantasy. No thanks!
You mean like playing a game where you're an all powerful spellcaster or blade master who can kill absolutely anything?
Yeah, that's not about fulfilling some power fantasy at all. lel
[Edit to remove sexist remark.]
By some of the things you said, for example trying to somehow insult me by implying that I'm a women, shows the kinda person you are - so I won't waste anymore time discussing anything with you.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on February 25, 2017 2:55AMA Bosmer Nightblade Werewolf -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buy
The United States of the 1800s was a good example of this. The south had slavery, but the north had outlawed it within specific states. If "slavery gets *** done iirc" as that person so elegantly put it, then logically the south would have been rich and the north poor. Actually, both areas got rich. The reason was that slavery doesn't make an economy grow any faster than a system that does NOT use slavery. And of course, now the north is rich and the south is poor, because of the after-effects of the American civil war.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »Slavery gets *** done iirc.
Actually, no it does not. In fact, it's more damaging to your economy and expansion as a civilization than it helps.
I live in the American south, and trust me, people here are still comparatively poor even in 2017.
(Yes, this is a simplistic overview of the situation in the 1800s here. So sue me.)
Edited by SydneyGrey on February 25, 2017 3:15AM -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buySydneyGrey wrote: »
The United States of the 1800s was a good example of this. The south had slavery, but the north had outlawed it within specific states. If "slavery gets *** done iirc" as that person so elegantly put it, then logically the south would have been rich and the north poor. Actually, both areas got rich. The reason was that slavery doesn't make an economy grow any faster than a system that does NOT use slavery. And of course, now the north is rich and the south is poor, because of the after-effects of the American civil war.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »Slavery gets *** done iirc.
Actually, no it does not. In fact, it's more damaging to your economy and expansion as a civilization than it helps.
I live in the American south, and trust me, people here are still comparatively poor even in 2017.
(Yes, this is a simplistic overview of the situation in the 1800s here. So sue me.)
But, the weather is nicer in the south. -
Yes, Morrowind will let me have slavesDear developer
I would love to pay for a slave
make it crown store exclusive
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SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buy
In the winter and fall, yes. Summers are much worse, though. When temperatures are 98 degrees Fahrenheit outside and your air conditioning goes out, you have a serious problem. LOL.But, the weather is nicer in the south.
Edited by SydneyGrey on February 25, 2017 6:27AM -
Jemcrystal✭✭✭✭✭http://blog.uesp.net/index.php/2017/02/22/more-eso-morrowind-info
"- Most or possibly all of Vvardenfell did not join the Ebonheart Pact, and thus slavery, especially of Argonians, is still in effect."
If I understand Hist lore (from those recordings I have posted in my signature) the Argonians allow themselves to be enslaved. So this is not exactly a traditional form of slavery and can in no way be compared to human real life culture. The Hist wanted them to stay with the Dunmer because the Hist, which I think is a sentient tree that has knowledge that would put the Dwemer to shame (as in it knows the Elder Scrolls plus some), said stay with the dark elves. The Hist knew something was coming and this slavery had to happen to make it's Argonians a part of it. Also, Argonians are not as weak as they make themselves out to be. It's a deception. Argonians are born killers. {correction the slang thru me - hatched not born}. They are very obedient to this Hist tree tho. Perhaps unable to not obey it.
.Edited by Jemcrystal on February 25, 2017 6:54AM -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭Yes, Morrowind will let me have slavesWuffyCerulei wrote: »To tie into lore, ONLY THE NPCS should have them, especially the Houses Redoran and Dres. For morality's sake, no player should be able to.
"For morality's sake." That's some funny stuff right there. Let's not forget what other "moral" activity received a whole DLC in this game. -
MercTheMage✭✭✭✭No, Morrowind will not have slaves that i can buyCelas_Dranacea wrote: »MercTheMage wrote: »Celas_Dranacea wrote: »MythicEmperor wrote: »Celas_Dranacea wrote: »This is not about lore, more about wanting to fulfill some power fantasy. No thanks!
No; it is about successfully roleplaying an established aspect of a race's culture.MercTheMage wrote: »Celas_Dranacea wrote: »This is not about lore, more about wanting to fulfill some power fantasy. No thanks!
Yes. I forgot, ESO isn't about fantasy at all.
Chillax homegurl, no one wants to enslave you.
It's just a game.
I'm a dude and personally I don't need ZOS wasting time on coding some "slave" feature for a small minority of people who are interested in some kinda slave-owner RP.
If ZOS wanted to improve ESO's RP value there's many other things they can do that would be more widely popular/useful than making it so you can own slaves.
Yes, Dunmer slavery is a part of the lore. No, expanding on slavery as some kinda feature for players to experience / participate in should not be a priority.
I stand by what I said, calm thy selfCelas_Dranacea wrote: »This is not about lore, more about wanting to fulfill some power fantasy. No thanks!
You mean like playing a game where you're an all powerful spellcaster or blade master who can kill absolutely anything?
Yeah, that's not about fulfilling some power fantasy at all. lel
[Edit to remove sexist remark.]
By some of the things you said, for example trying to somehow insult me by implying that I'm a women, shows the kinda person you are - so I won't waste anymore time discussing anything with you.
QuitterYou just going to stand there like a lemon?
This discussion has been closed.