Voices Crying in the Wilderness.....Many want Trader Bid System modified. Here is another discussion

xFLADNAGx

Just do a search for Trader, Trader Bids, Trader Cost, and you will see the clamour for change.

In each discussion there are those that post their absolute rejection of the idea that the System needs fixing, and the status quo is fine.

The Game in is current state and ever growing population demand an expansion to the fixed number of Traders at the very least.

I would hope this thread can have constructive ideas posted in response, and a curtailing of posts that, " All Is Well", because it clearly is not.

Those that follow the good,and bad of this issue know all the reasons for change.
Dummy Guilds
Gold Sellers
Very Rich Establishment vs Very Poor Startups
Finite number of Stalls vs Growing Population of Guilds
The list could go on and on

BYE THE WAY.... I am NOT an advocate of an Auction House

One idea that I think ZOS should implement soon would be to Stack Each Stall....allow 5 guilds per Stall. this would go a long way to fixing many issues.

The UI could stand some improvements as well.

Stopnaggin

The system we have is preferred. I will start out with a no to auction houses.

The current systems needs:
A better ui
A text search
Either a higher limit of players allowed to join a guild or more kiosks
A way to detect empty kiosk and award those to the next bidder
Allowing wandering merchant the ability to consign wares, maybe 10 to 15, for individuals.
Possibly add a bazaar to each major city with more kiosks, or just outside the city.

Just few ideas anyway.

Spacemonkey

I agree; My own thread was quickly lost from the first page. (tears)
Probably because I wrote, 'constructive comments only please'; (rofl)

Because of all the problems of finite number of sellers vs buyers (being my main problem...)
-> spending hours trying to find what you need being my second but I did not address it;

I posted my idea about Guild Traders having rental slots; You can read up on it fully here (hopefully that isn't against the forum rules) : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323769/guild-traders-modification-idea

Basically, anyone could walk up to a Guild Trader and that trader may have a slot available for rent for an hourly fee, for a duration of your choosing. The slots are first come first serve and are limited but also vary based on zone population, trader worth etc... I think its a win/win idea for both parties of the entire Yes/No AH debacle.

But yes, something needs to be changed;

mb10

Dont think anyone can put up a good enough debate in favour of the current system vs a central trading house other than economic reasons.

The current system is literally horrendous and very tedious.
At least at the bank, you can set up a filtered search and then flick through your guilds without having to input all the data again.

If it was at least like that at every guild trader area then it would help so much but having to put in every detail of the item you want 5-6 times in every zone is such a hassle.

AlnilamE

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think anyone can put up a good enough debate in favour of the current system vs a central trading house other than economic reasons.

The current system is literally horrendous and very tedious.
At least at the bank, you can set up a filtered search and then flick through your guilds without having to input all the data again.

If it was at least like that at every guild trader area then it would help so much but having to put in every detail of the item you want 5-6 times in every zone is such a hassle.

Yeah, ZOS should incorporate the AwesomeGuildStore addon into the game. It makes looking for specific items much easier.

Other than that, I actually enjoy shopping around.

alexkdd99

xFLADNAGx wrote: »

Just do a search for Trader, Trader Bids, Trader Cost, and you will see the clamour for change.

In each discussion there are those that post their absolute rejection of the idea that the System needs fixing, and the status quo is fine.

The Game in is current state and ever growing population demand an expansion to the fixed number of Traders at the very least.

I would hope this thread can have constructive ideas posted in response, and a curtailing of posts that, " All Is Well", because it clearly is not.

Those that follow the good,and bad of this issue know all the reasons for change.
Dummy Guilds
Gold Sellers
Very Rich Establishment vs Very Poor Startups
Finite number of Stalls vs Growing Population of Guilds
The list could go on and on

One idea that I think ZOS should implement soon would be to Stack Each Stall....allow 5 guilds per Stall. this would go a long way to fixing many issues.

The UI could stand some improvements as well.

So you don't want any post that disagree with what you believe? A curtailing of post that all is well, because you don't believe that?

Sorry that is not how things work. Discussion in forums such as these involve people with differing opinions. Just because you don't like the current system, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.

It is your opinion that the system is broken, and it is my opinion that it is not. Both of us are entitled to post our opinion on the matter.

You can't expect people who like the current system to not defend it when you are posting in order to change it. That is not how discussion works. Of course people are going to defend something they like, just as you are trying to say it is broken because you don't like it.

Cryptical

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think anyone can put up a good enough debate in favour of the current system vs a central trading house other than economic reasons.

The current system is literally horrendous and very tedious.
At least at the bank, you can set up a filtered search and then flick through your guilds without having to input all the data again.

If it was at least like that at every guild trader area then it would help so much but having to put in every detail of the item you want 5-6 times in every zone is such a hassle.

Get with the times. As of today, you don't have to put in the search details multiple times.

srfrogg23

There's no real value to the current system. If addons and third party websites that turn the current system into a global auction house didn't exist, just about everyone would hate it, with very few exceptions.

Even the people who are dead-set against a global auction house will more often than not tell you that they use all sorts of third party addons and websites to quickly sort through all the listed items to find the best prices and/or undercut each other.

I think people just like the novelty of Guild Traders, but they use unofficial third party addons and websites because they don't actually like the Guild Trader system in practice.

In short: people use outside programs to circumvent the guild trader system. They basically cheat because the system sucks.

The game needs a global auction house.

SaRuZ

Is this the same guy making these threads? The system works dude, get good at running a trading guild, get good at the politics and get good at mmo economics ffs. It's not hard. A global auction house will eventually kill this economy.

Artis

xFLADNAGx wrote: »

Very Rich Establishment vs Very Poor Startups

Wanted to comment on this.

How is this a problem? That's the reality of market. Any market, not just in game but IRL as well. Those who are rich and in Rawlkha and alike started since pre-release, before the traders even existed. Nothing stops you or anyone from making your own guild and growing.

I started from scratch myself. I had a very small PvE guild back in the days of vDSA and wanted to expand to do trials, had some great players there that I met doing vDSA. But then I had a one-month break and pretty much everyone left by the time I got back, a person who was supposed to keep it afloat didn't do anything. One of those guys is a guild leader of one of my PvE guilds right now - the favorite one. But yeah back to the topic - so the guild stayed empty for a while but I didn't want to quit or disband it because I liked the name and still had a couple of friends. At some point I decided to do something about it, since it became obvious no one wants to progress in pve with a new guild, it's all about connections there. So I started recruiting and decided to make it a 500-member guild with a trader.

ANd what do you think? Yes, I was a poor startup, but I did grow and slowly started getting traders in the wilderness, and then in towns, and now I have a trader in tier-3 locations all the time. And we're still growing. If I can do it, everyone can do it too. IF your point is that boohoo new guilds can't get a trader in Rawlkha right away - then sorry I can't empathize with that. Yes we can't, so what?


That being said, I do think that the system can be improved. One of the things they should give us is more ways to make guild rules and for those rules to be supported by the game. For example, controlling the house cut, breaking the guild bank into different cells and granting access to them depending on the rank, setting up a combination of minimum sales and gold deposits into a bank that will lead to an automatic guild kick if the requirement is not met (and no one can blame officers/GM for being "mean" or whatever) - again, could be different for different ranks.

And yes of course, it does need a better UI and search.

idk

@xFLADNAGx

And many do not want the guild trader system changed.

Most are probably tired of such threads.

Most of those threads are filled with baseless claims just as your original post is.

bryanhaas

Stopnaggin wrote: »

The system we have is preferred. I will start out with a no to auction houses.

The current systems needs:
A better ui
A text search
Either a higher limit of players allowed to join a guild or more kiosks
A way to detect empty kiosk and award those to the next bidder
Allowing wandering merchant the ability to consign wares, maybe 10 to 15, for individuals.
Possibly add a bazaar to each major city with more kiosks, or just outside the city.

Just few ideas anyway.

Yes the search system sucks, also we should have more slots for selling stuff 30 is way too low. I know people running 10 accounts all in AAA guilds charging 10k/week because they have that much to sell.

bryanhaas

SaRuZ wrote: »

Is this the same guy making these threads? The system works dude, get good at running a trading guild, get good at the politics and get good at mmo economics ffs. It's not hard. A global auction house will eventually kill this economy.

PC has master merchant so essentially they have a global auction house. Maybe not an auction house per se but pricing transparency. On console we have to go from trader to trader looking for this or that which is also why the pricing is as high as it is while PC pricing is mostly dirt cheap. A global trader of some sort would not drive prices up but bring them down.

Eleusian

On console the traders system is terrible for buying motifs or recipes. As far as the economy goes ZOS seems to keep a good handle on inflation. That doesn't prevent players from becoming rich

xFLADNAGx

I firmly believe that all those opposed to this type of discussion and the idea of changing the system are the ones that are causing the inflated Stall Prices and are threatened at the thought they may lose their Gold Selling ability through the current system.

This Two Star OP just doesn't want to Troll for stars. I've been in this game since day 1, and have seen and heard it all.

I post this because there truly is a problem. Those opposed to fixing it are the ones profiting from it I am sure.

Also just to be clear....I am not in favor of an Auction House.

mb10

Cryptical wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think anyone can put up a good enough debate in favour of the current system vs a central trading house other than economic reasons.

The current system is literally horrendous and very tedious.
At least at the bank, you can set up a filtered search and then flick through your guilds without having to input all the data again.

If it was at least like that at every guild trader area then it would help so much but having to put in every detail of the item you want 5-6 times in every zone is such a hassle.

Get with the times. As of today, you don't have to put in the search details multiple times.

@Cryptical I'm on console genius

AlnilamE

srfrogg23 wrote: »

There's no real value to the current system. If addons and third party websites that turn the current system into a global auction house didn't exist, just about everyone would hate it, with very few exceptions.

Even the people who are dead-set against a global auction house will more often than not tell you that they use all sorts of third party addons and websites to quickly sort through all the listed items to find the best prices and/or undercut each other.

I think people just like the novelty of Guild Traders, but they use unofficial third party addons and websites because they don't actually like the Guild Trader system in practice.

In short: people use outside programs to circumvent the guild trader system. They basically cheat because the system sucks.

The game needs a global auction house.

The game needs to incorporate AwesomeGuildStore into the UI. That's pretty much all.

How do these third party thingies even work? Do people just run around traders all day long to feed it data?

Kodrac

What irritates me is you get people who say there aren't enough trader locations in the world because guilds can only hold 500 people and yet you go shopping and there's boatloads of empty traders out there.

AlnilamE

Kodrac wrote: »

What irritates me is you get people who say there aren't enough trader locations in the world because guilds can only hold 500 people and yet you go shopping and there's boatloads of empty traders out there.

Exactly!

And almost every week I find guild traders that are available after the switch.

SunfireKnight86

I fought the trader thing tooth and nail when they suggested it. I really wanted an AH. Three years later, I'm glad we don't have one, honestly.

I think just fixing the UI would do wonders to start with. There is no excuse for it being total garbage for this long.

Tommy_The_Gun

The problem with trading guild system:

1. Only like 1 - 5 % of players can actually sell stuff. The only way for the rest of players to sell stuff is to spam chat with "WTS xyz" and hope for the best. This is the reason number 1 - lack of proper "trading" support for "solo" & "small guilds" players.

2. Even if you have a guild and some friends to join, then you almost have no chances to have a guild with a trading vendor NPC (even in some obscure place).

3. Trading guilds often (as far as I can tell) switch places in a "controlled" way. One time I saw a trading guild "A" in certain place, the day after it was guild "B" and after some time it was guild "A" again (the cycle repeats).

4. It is hard to stay in one guild for a longer period of time. If you are not lucky and you sell too little - you are kicked.

5. When trading guild is recruiting new players, usually they are looking for experienced traders. How someone "new" to trading is supposed to have any experience in selling stuff ?

Bottom line: this is just too closed and I would even dare to say "monopolized" system, that is simply too "hermetic". It is just too difficult (and sometimes even impossible) for new players (or just those who play for long time but they simply want to open a trading guild) to start and discover how it actually works.

srfrogg23

AlnilamE wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

There's no real value to the current system. If addons and third party websites that turn the current system into a global auction house didn't exist, just about everyone would hate it, with very few exceptions.

Even the people who are dead-set against a global auction house will more often than not tell you that they use all sorts of third party addons and websites to quickly sort through all the listed items to find the best prices and/or undercut each other.

I think people just like the novelty of Guild Traders, but they use unofficial third party addons and websites because they don't actually like the Guild Trader system in practice.

In short: people use outside programs to circumvent the guild trader system. They basically cheat because the system sucks.

The game needs a global auction house.

The game needs to incorporate AwesomeGuildStore into the UI. That's pretty much all.

How do these third party thingies even work? Do people just run around traders all day long to feed it data?

Yeah, pretty much what people are doing. People are using addons that collect item listing data and pricing data and that information is then uploaded to websites like Tamriel Trade Center.

Which is a third party database that basically acts as a global auction house style consolidated list of all guild traders, where they're located, what is being sold, and how much it's being sold for.

The difference between this and an in game global auction house is that it is not an official part of ESO and you cannot purchase items through it. It also defeats the purpose of the guild trader system as a whole.

Funny enough, the loudest opponents of a global auction house are usually the first ones to tell you that they use these 3rd party auction listings, either for convenience or a competitive advantage.

I'm also pretty sure that Zenimax never intended for people to create a proxy global auction house for their game using 3rd party software...

GlassHalfFull

I think just the out of the way kiosks should be changed to allow two or three traders per kiosk, so these out of the way kiosk locations y become more of an attraction to buyers, and encourages sellers to go to those locations.

Stopnaggin

mb10 wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Dont think anyone can put up a good enough debate in favour of the current system vs a central trading house other than economic reasons.

The current system is literally horrendous and very tedious.
At least at the bank, you can set up a filtered search and then flick through your guilds without having to input all the data again.

If it was at least like that at every guild trader area then it would help so much but having to put in every detail of the item you want 5-6 times in every zone is such a hassle.

Get with the times. As of today, you don't have to put in the search details multiple times.

@Cryptical I'm on console genius

It's on console

Stopnaggin

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

The problem with trading guild system:

1. Only like 1 - 5 % of players can actually sell stuff. The only way for the rest of players to sell stuff is to spam chat with "WTS xyz" and hope for the best. This is the reason number 1 - lack of proper "trading" support for "solo" & "small guilds" players.

2. Even if you have a guild and some friends to join, then you almost have no chances to have a guild with a trading vendor NPC (even in some obscure place).

3. Trading guilds often (as far as I can tell) switch places in a "controlled" way. One time I saw a trading guild "A" in certain place, the day after it was guild "B" and after some time it was guild "A" again (the cycle repeats).

4. It is hard to stay in one guild for a longer period of time. If you are not lucky and you sell too little - you are kicked.

5. When trading guild is recruiting new players, usually they are looking for experienced traders. How someone "new" to trading is supposed to have any experience in selling stuff ?

Bottom line: this is just too closed and I would even dare to say "monopolized" system, that is simply too "hermetic". It is just too difficult (and sometimes even impossible) for new players (or just those who play for long time but they simply want to open a trading guild) to start and discover how it actually works.

Point 1 is false.

Poinot 2 again I helped start a small guild, we bid 10k and got a trader in Skywatch, that's not alot to obtain a kiosk

Point 3 it's not controlled we like having the same spot sometimes we get outbid, then we bud higher to get our old spot back.

Point 4 again none of the guilds I'm in kick that fast most will give a month, the lowest one is 2 weeks

Point 5 again not true, they recruit anyone willing to sell and put in the effort to have things to sell. Maybe try getting into a good guild.

Taleof2Cities

I'm lost as to why yet another thread had to be started on this topic.

alexkdd99

Lol at the people saying only 1-5% of people can sell. Where do you people get these numbers from? Pulling them out of the air at random?

It is funny when people post their opinions, while trying to pass them as facts.

Artis

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

The problem with trading guild system:

1. Only like 1 - 5 % of players can actually sell stuff. The only way for the rest of players to sell stuff is to spam chat with "WTS xyz" and hope for the best. This is the reason number 1 - lack of proper "trading" support for "solo" & "small guilds" players.

2. Even if you have a guild and some friends to join, then you almost have no chances to have a guild with a trading vendor NPC (even in some obscure place).

3. Trading guilds often (as far as I can tell) switch places in a "controlled" way. One time I saw a trading guild "A" in certain place, the day after it was guild "B" and after some time it was guild "A" again (the cycle repeats).

4. It is hard to stay in one guild for a longer period of time. If you are not lucky and you sell too little - you are kicked.

5. When trading guild is recruiting new players, usually they are looking for experienced traders. How someone "new" to trading is supposed to have any experience in selling stuff ?

Bottom line: this is just too closed and I would even dare to say "monopolized" system, that is simply too "hermetic". It is just too difficult (and sometimes even impossible) for new players (or just those who play for long time but they simply want to open a trading guild) to start and discover how it actually works.

1. Yet there are so many almost empty guilds getting traders. And so few WTS in the chat considering that 95%-99% of players are supposed to spam it. No, you overestimate this number for sure. Also, no one is stopping those players from joining trade guilds.
2. That's why you have 4 more guild slots.
3. That could be that they outbid each other. Either way - there are many more traders, not just that one.
4. That's not luck. If you don't sell because you are inactive and don't come online and don't update your prices - then sure, they will replace you, but you can always find another guild when you come back to actually play. If you are active - it's up to you to update your listings. If something doesn't sell it's not you being unlucky - it's you trying to sell something overpriced or something that's not in demand. It's a good thing. That's how you learn to price your stuff accordingly and what to sell.
5. All experience you need is a Master Merchant addon. You can also ask guildies with high sales for advises. There's no way to check if you are "experienced" in trading or not. Usually top guilds will require to sell certain amount weekly. There's no need in experience to do that. One of the best selling things in game is raw crafting mats. Even low level players can sell those.

See my comment above. I did just that. Started a trading guild from scratch and it's growing and now I usually get a trader consistently. It is possible. If I could do it, others can too, I'm not special or anything.

IcyDeadPeople

Some small adjustments could improve the experience for smaller trading guilds as well as people shopping for items.

- Add text search filter similar to the Awesome Guild Store add-on

- Move certain traders a bit closer to wayshrine and bank. The most popular spots in Rawlkha, Mournhold, Wayrest and Elden Root, have traders very close to the wayshrine so you can port there and quickly check all the traders for whatever you are looking for. Hew's Bane, Orsinium or Gold Coast could be popular spots, for example, but the traders are very far from the wayshrine (or split in two separate towns in the case of Gold Coast).

- Add 2-3 more traders in every outlaw refuge. If they know there is only one trader inside, usually with limited merchandise, most players are a bit too lazy to spend the time to check these spots.

- Add 1-2 extra traders in both popular and unpopular towns. Both would benefit.

- Require guild trader unlock (50 members) to claim keep in Cyrodiil.

- Add guild traders to Cyrodiil resources and outposts.

- Add guild traders to Cropsford, Bruma, Vlastarus, Cheydinhal and Chorrol.

MasterSpatula

xFLADNAGx wrote: »

In each discussion there are those that post their absolute rejection of the idea that the System needs fixing, and the status quo is fine.

Every economic system has people arguing for the status quo and saying the current system is fine. In Communism, it's the Party. In Capitalism, it's the rich. In feudalism, it's the nobility. Whatever the system, those who benefit from it always believe it rewards merit and never believe their status gives them huge advantages that help keep them on top. Changing the system so it benefits the larger group is always an evil to those who prosper.

Of course, any functioning economy has to reward merit. But does a system truly reward merit, or does it give undue rewards to those with certain advantages? I would say right now ESO does the latter. Competition is stifled by the advantages you gain from owning the right Trader.

I'm not saying a global trade system is the answer. Perhaps just move all the remote, off-by-themselves Traders to settlements and increase the size of each cluster of traders. They don't all have to be at capitols for this to work. If you knew there were 12 traders at Morkuldin, that might make it worth the trip. With four there, not so much.

xboxNA corin6

Can someone do me a favor by explaining what is GOOD about the current system, without using broad terms like "inflation" and actually explain the process because as many topics as I've seen on this, I get a strong opinion that the people who enjoy this system are the ones who spend way too much time trading in game versus other elements of the game, or perhaps they play for 10 hours a day. I have yet to see someone get into the details of why the system is good, other than "it's good cus I think it is". I know I'll be damned to run around Tamriel to find items. All my trading happens in zone chat.