Is a melee magicka Nightblade viable end game PvP and PvE?

Kaide

I like the idea of a magicka Nightblade. However, I prefer using melee weapons (swords/daggers) over staves. Is a melee magicka Nightblade build viable end game PvE and PvP? Are magicka Nightblades more rare than stamina Nightblades?

psychotic13

Magicka Melee NBs are awful

Seraphayel

Melee Magicka with Staves = yes
Melee Magicka with one handed weapons = no

The question is, what kind of content are we talking about. Timed trial runs? Good Maelstrom Arena times?

Melee attacks don't benefit Magicka at all (and that's a major letdown, wish it would be different).

Magicka Nightblades are maybe the rarest class - spec - combination in game.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Depends on your definiton of viable. You can complete all content with it, but in an optimized pve raid, melee spots are basicly reserved for dks and templars as they do noticable more damage.

OldGamerESO

PvP and PvE are very different things. And "viable" means different things to different people. There is no Meta build for Magicka NB, so you are free from the burden of being forced into a specific build. I would suggest playing to the strengths of the class.

Well you wouldn't really be "using" swords/daggers, would you as a Magicka NB? Those two weapon lines are purely stamina. You could "equip" them though for some sort of RP thing. The passives mostly won't help you either since they mostly apply to the weapon skills. (accept the the last DW passive will help your +damage)

So if you really want to do this, equip what you want as duel wield so you can do 2 full sets + monster set, then use all class/guilds abilities and no weapon abilities. Totally "viable" IMHO as long as you are solo. Groups/trials are nasty and unforgiving and might criticize you. But solo you can do it all and have fun doing it!

You get :

• Infinite cloak
• Infinite (and best IMHO) charge/leap
• Great burst damage
• Great CC (fear/stuns)
• Heals
• Great passives and very good self buffs

Most importantly HAVE FUN.

Olupajmibanan

Destro staff/Destro staff magicka nightblade with Grothdarr is completely viable as melee build. It does slightly more dps than classic ranged build, but you simply don't want to lose the BIG advantage of being ranged for really really little dps increase.

However if you want to use melee weapons such as swords, magicka templar is the only magic class capable of using them for end-game PVE content.

Knootewoot

I run enough trials and verteran dungeons as melee magblade.

One main bar:

dual wield swords and I weave light attack with concealed weapon. I use entropy/sap essence for extra powerrrrr and I cast cripple for dot and I clap my hands and dance.

I debuff with piercing mark and I use veil of blades when my master commands me.

If I need to go ranged, on my backbar I have destroy staff which I weave with force pulse. and I use same dots, buffs, debuffs.
I also did "Ruins of Mazzatun" which was awefully hard but we made it first try.

Yes, in a pug group people cry about my dps but my selfsupport keeps me alive and in my guild where most people are more relaxed we don't do DPS race.

So yes, it's viable

fred4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAU8S8Z2X7w

Alpharos7

Of course Magicka Nightblade is viable for endgame - anything is. However, they are one of the more technical classes to play, and such are fairly difficult to run.

However...

They are so much fun to use! They have great skill lines, passives and ultimates, and there sustain is top-notch.

I am loving my argonian magblade at the moment, and what's more, it was so easy to put together. 5 pic clever alchemist, 4 Julianos and a random jewellery set with max Magicka / spell damage. The burst damage is insane, and even though he is a vampire, I have no issues with survivability. I'd recommend playing as a vampire if you go magblade, as it works really well.

Seraphayel

I mean which end game Magicka build is purely ranged? All of them are using Wall of Elements so they need to go into mid-/melee-range.

Cugel

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

However if you want to use melee weapons such as swords, magicka templar is the only magic class capable of using them for end-game PVE content.

Why is that? There is no difference between magicka NB and Templar apart from Templar having a melee skill that is a DPS increase compared to the ranged alternatives. A magicka NB can equip DW swords + Staff and play melee exactly as a templar (without actually having ranged abilities). Grothdarr + DW will be a DPS increase. But as others said, the increase is not enough compared to the disadvantage most ppl think being melee is.

xblackroxe

Cugel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

However if you want to use melee weapons such as swords, magicka templar is the only magic class capable of using them for end-game PVE content.

Why is that? There is no difference between magicka NB and Templar apart from Templar having a melee skill that is a DPS increase compared to the ranged alternatives. A magicka NB can equip DW swords + Staff and play melee exactly as a templar (without actually having ranged abilities). Grothdarr + DW will be a DPS increase. But as others said, the increase is not enough compared to the disadvantage most ppl think being melee is.

Templar can pull it off because main spammable and execute both are channels. That means you will get less lightattacks as sweeps is 1.1 sec and beam 2 sec. also beam was and still is the strongest execute and the main reason templar is competetive. Last patch it did ~1/3 of your single target dps now idk haven't seen enough parses yet to judge.
For everyone else the spammables are instant cast so you actually increase your dps by weaving.
Most templar dots are on backbar though with an inferno staff for weaving as all the dots are instant cast.
EDIT:
Actually sweeps itself is the weakest st spammable the only reason its better is burning light. And despite what people say concealed IS a good spammable its just that overall nb is worse than both templar and dk so that they don't get melee spots in raids. Same applies for ranged though, NB is just a subpar sorc. Thats the reason nobody takes nb in leaderboard runs.

KingYogi415

Magblades can blow up 5-20 people with proxy VD.

And as punishment as punishment they suck at everything else.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

xblackroxe wrote: »

Cugel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

However if you want to use melee weapons such as swords, magicka templar is the only magic class capable of using them for end-game PVE content.

Why is that? There is no difference between magicka NB and Templar apart from Templar having a melee skill that is a DPS increase compared to the ranged alternatives. A magicka NB can equip DW swords + Staff and play melee exactly as a templar (without actually having ranged abilities). Grothdarr + DW will be a DPS increase. But as others said, the increase is not enough compared to the disadvantage most ppl think being melee is.

Templar can pull it off because main spammable and execute both are channels. That means you will get less lightattacks as sweeps is 1.1 sec and beam 2 sec. also beam was and still is the strongest execute and the main reason templar is competetive. Last patch it did ~1/3 of your single target dps now idk haven't seen enough parses yet to judge.
For everyone else the spammables are instant cast so you actually increase your dps by weaving.
Most templar dots are on backbar though with an inferno staff for weaving as all the dots are instant cast.
EDIT:
Actually sweeps itself is the weakest st spammable the only reason its better is burning light. And despite what people say concealed IS a good spammable its just that overall nb is worse than both templar and dk so that they don't get melee spots in raids. Same applies for ranged though, NB is just a subpar sorc. Thats the reason nobody takes nb in leaderboard runs.

Not true. Okay, they don't have the pure dps of a sorc, I'll give you that (sorc also have almost no utility) but the dps of a end game NB is also more than enough for end game raids.

The standards aren't that high.

Doctordarkspawn

Get this into your head right now.

You have two options.

Focus on Magicka, pick up a staff, pick a magicka NB build and wear light.

Or find another game to play because this game does not give you freedom of choice. You play the hidden meta or you dont play. If you want more options, go play another game, I'm dead serious, this is not the game for you.

EldritchPenguin

Magicka Nightblades benefit far more from Destruction Staff than Dual Wield for two main reasons: Attack weaves outperform the bonuses of using DW, and Force Pulse is the most powerful spammable that the class has access to. It's certainly doable to have a melee Magblade, but it undermines the advantages of using Magblades, and you'd be better off with a Dragonknight or Templar if you want a melee Magicka build.

Lord Xanhorn

I assume you are talking about DPS? My NB magicka tank is melee and its highly effective. Some people don't want to play tanks cause they thinks its block all the time. Not the case with NBs. I rarely block as a NB tank and actually I'm much less efficient if I block. I do a bunch of dps and I am basically unkillable. Try it out cause its a blast.

mikeabboudb14_ESO

i am having a blast on mine. due wield, when i run out of magicka i use one of my duel wield abilities and till magicka rebuilds.i use my stun on groups of three and now its 2 and any class can kill two. i have a nice shield and i siphon in my main rotation to keep my healing up. my armor heals me each time i kill so i want more then one opponent as they die i heal. i dont even know why people bother with a stam build not sure how they are better he a vampire so i have a nice damage resistance.and i built up my fire resistance the whole mageblade goes well with the vamp theme. try it its fun.

xblackroxe

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Cugel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

However if you want to use melee weapons such as swords, magicka templar is the only magic class capable of using them for end-game PVE content.

Why is that? There is no difference between magicka NB and Templar apart from Templar having a melee skill that is a DPS increase compared to the ranged alternatives. A magicka NB can equip DW swords + Staff and play melee exactly as a templar (without actually having ranged abilities). Grothdarr + DW will be a DPS increase. But as others said, the increase is not enough compared to the disadvantage most ppl think being melee is.

Templar can pull it off because main spammable and execute both are channels. That means you will get less lightattacks as sweeps is 1.1 sec and beam 2 sec. also beam was and still is the strongest execute and the main reason templar is competetive. Last patch it did ~1/3 of your single target dps now idk haven't seen enough parses yet to judge.
For everyone else the spammables are instant cast so you actually increase your dps by weaving.
Most templar dots are on backbar though with an inferno staff for weaving as all the dots are instant cast.
EDIT:
Actually sweeps itself is the weakest st spammable the only reason its better is burning light. And despite what people say concealed IS a good spammable its just that overall nb is worse than both templar and dk so that they don't get melee spots in raids. Same applies for ranged though, NB is just a subpar sorc. Thats the reason nobody takes nb in leaderboard runs.

Not true. Okay, they don't have the pure dps of a sorc, I'll give you that (sorc also have almost no utility) but the dps of a end game NB is also more than enough for end game raids.

The standards aren't that high.

Read again. "For leaderboard runs MagBlades aren't worth it".

DKs have the best singletarget dps mag wise.
Templars have only barely less st dps than dks the best cleave, the best execute (which actually is important to have) and minor sorcery (healers have it too but its easier for dds as reflective and beam both are in their rotation anyways).
Sorcs have similar dps as templars, can do almost 100% if their damagepotential as ranged (some like trap this patch but im not convinced yet) have minor prophecy and have overload+streak for vmol outside.
NBs have the hardest rotation of all classes with the lowest damage potential, they have offheals (not needed, since the change to concussion the healer that used infa can now run mending set without dps loss), minor savagery (no stam dps in raids needed since this update)

NBs simply have nothing that adds to the group and the worst dps of all classes so tell me again why you would want them when you are trying to get number one scores.

Kaide

fred4 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAU8S8Z2X7w

Thanks for the video. Do Magicka Nightblade use all elemental damage or just flame/fire? Asking to decide between Dark Elf and High Elf.

xblackroxe

Kaide wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAU8S8Z2X7w

Thanks for the video? Do Magicka Nightblade use all elemental damage or just flame/fire? Asking to decide between Dark Elf and High Elf.

Go darkelf. Blockade, fiery rage, light attacks and 1/3 of forcepulse make up for the other 2/3 of forcepulse that are not fire.

srfrogg23

Kaide wrote: »

I like the idea of a magicka Nightblade. However, I prefer using melee weapons (swords/daggers) over staves. Is a melee magicka Nightblade build viable end game PvE and PvP? Are magicka Nightblades more rare than stamina Nightblades?

Melee weapon damage scales off of stamina and melee weapon heavy attacks restore stamina.

Making a magicka character that blends melee dps is going to require you to split resources to some degree. If you don't, one of your two resource pools will hit like a kitten while the other does decent, but you'll lose sustainability and that will drag down your dps.

If you split them evenly, they'll both probably just suck all around and your character will be as scary as a 3 legged chihuahua.

In short, I wouldn't recommend it unless you're just wanting the small boost to magic damage that comes from dual-wielding, but with the drawback that heavy attacks won't restore magicka while you do that.

Tommy_The_Gun

Kaide wrote: »

I like the idea of a magicka Nightblade. However, I prefer using melee weapons (swords/daggers) over staves. Is a melee magicka Nightblade build viable end game PvE and PvP? Are magicka Nightblades more rare than stamina Nightblades?

The thing about magicka NB is that if you use DW and attack in close range - then you will run out of resources fast. Weapon enchantment to deal magicka dmg and restore mana won't help much. If you are going for such a build you will have to have a lot of magicka recovery.

The only magicka NB build that is melee, that seems to be good idea is a sap tank. You dmg won't be good, but you will be hard to kill.

Artis

xblackroxe wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Not true. Okay, they don't have the pure dps of a sorc, I'll give you that (sorc also have almost no utility) but the dps of a end game NB is also more than enough for end game raids.

The standards aren't that high.

Read again. "For leaderboard runs MagBlades aren't worth it".

DKs have the best singletarget dps mag wise.
Templars have only barely less st dps than dks the best cleave, the best execute (which actually is important to have) and minor sorcery (healers have it too but its easier for dds as reflective and beam both are in their rotation anyways).
Sorcs have similar dps as templars, can do almost 100% if their damagepotential as ranged (some like trap this patch but im not convinced yet) have minor prophecy and have overload+streak for vmol outside.
NBs have the hardest rotation of all classes with the lowest damage potential, they have offheals (not needed, since the change to concussion the healer that used infa can now run mending set without dps loss), minor savagery (no stam dps in raids needed since this update)

NBs simply have nothing that adds to the group and the worst dps of all classes so tell me again why you would want them when you are trying to get number one scores.

What are you talking about? First off - OP is about being "viable", secondly - look what the guy above said. I don't understand what are you arguing with. No one even said anything about number one scores except for you. How are two bold parts related to each other? It's like your monitor is distorting the text or something. They were talking about completing end-game content, not getting #1.

You both are right, but he's more right in the context of the OP

xblackroxe

Artis wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Not true. Okay, they don't have the pure dps of a sorc, I'll give you that (sorc also have almost no utility) but the dps of a end game NB is also more than enough for end game raids.

The standards aren't that high.

Read again. "For leaderboard runs MagBlades aren't worth it".

DKs have the best singletarget dps mag wise.
Templars have only barely less st dps than dks the best cleave, the best execute (which actually is important to have) and minor sorcery (healers have it too but its easier for dds as reflective and beam both are in their rotation anyways).
Sorcs have similar dps as templars, can do almost 100% if their damagepotential as ranged (some like trap this patch but im not convinced yet) have minor prophecy and have overload+streak for vmol outside.
NBs have the hardest rotation of all classes with the lowest damage potential, they have offheals (not needed, since the change to concussion the healer that used infa can now run mending set without dps loss), minor savagery (no stam dps in raids needed since this update)

NBs simply have nothing that adds to the group and the worst dps of all classes so tell me again why you would want them when you are trying to get number one scores.

What are you talking about? First off - OP is about being "viable", secondly - look what the guy above said. I don't understand what are you arguing with. No one even said anything about number one scores except for you. How are two bold parts related to each other? It's like your monitor is distorting the text or something. They were talking about completing end-game content, not getting #1.

You both are right, but he's more right in the context of the OP

Maybe read the whole context. OP asked why DW on templar is good for pve and bad on NB. So I told him whats the difference and at the end with one sentence also said NBs arent taken for leaderboard runs (bc it just fit into what i was saying). Someone said thats not true (bc he/she didn't actually read what i said) so I gave an in depth analysis why what I said is in fact true and also corrected the part where he/she said Sorcs have no group utility which is wrong.

Parafrost

Knootewoot wrote: »

I run enough trials and verteran dungeons as melee magblade.

One main bar:

dual wield swords and I weave light attack with concealed weapon. I use entropy/sap essence for extra powerrrrr and I cast cripple for dot and I clap my hands and dance.

I debuff with piercing mark and I use veil of blades when my master commands me.

If I need to go ranged, on my backbar I have destroy staff which I weave with force pulse. and I use same dots, buffs, debuffs.
I also did "Ruins of Mazzatun" which was awefully hard but we made it first try.

Yes, in a pug group people cry about my dps but my selfsupport keeps me alive and in my guild where most people are more relaxed we don't do DPS race.

So yes, it's viable

Do you do like 20k dps as well?

Parafrost

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Cugel wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

However if you want to use melee weapons such as swords, magicka templar is the only magic class capable of using them for end-game PVE content.

Why is that? There is no difference between magicka NB and Templar apart from Templar having a melee skill that is a DPS increase compared to the ranged alternatives. A magicka NB can equip DW swords + Staff and play melee exactly as a templar (without actually having ranged abilities). Grothdarr + DW will be a DPS increase. But as others said, the increase is not enough compared to the disadvantage most ppl think being melee is.

Templar can pull it off because main spammable and execute both are channels. That means you will get less lightattacks as sweeps is 1.1 sec and beam 2 sec. also beam was and still is the strongest execute and the main reason templar is competetive. Last patch it did ~1/3 of your single target dps now idk haven't seen enough parses yet to judge.
For everyone else the spammables are instant cast so you actually increase your dps by weaving.
Most templar dots are on backbar though with an inferno staff for weaving as all the dots are instant cast.
EDIT:
Actually sweeps itself is the weakest st spammable the only reason its better is burning light. And despite what people say concealed IS a good spammable its just that overall nb is worse than both templar and dk so that they don't get melee spots in raids. Same applies for ranged though, NB is just a subpar sorc. Thats the reason nobody takes nb in leaderboard runs.

Not true. Okay, they don't have the pure dps of a sorc, I'll give you that (sorc also have almost no utility) but the dps of a end game NB is also more than enough for end game raids.

The standards aren't that high.

Sorcs give spell critical for the group... thats a lot of utility.

Artis

xblackroxe wrote: »

Maybe read the whole context. OP asked why DW on templar is good for pve and bad on NB. So I told him whats the difference and at the end with one sentence also said NBs arent taken for leaderboard runs (bc it just fit into what i was saying). Someone said thats not true (bc he/she didn't actually read what i said) so I gave an in depth analysis why what I said is in fact true and also corrected the part where he/she said Sorcs have no group utility which is wrong.

I'm not here to argue with you. But notice, that he said "good for pve", not "good for number one score".You are very deep into all that elitist mentality right now and see everything through the prism of competitiveness and getting number 1 score, that's my whole point.

But people do take NBs for trial runs and leaderboards runs (weekly or overall but not aiming to be top 1.. well actually only a few guilds are even realistically aiming and trying to get top scores). Most trial groups just want smooth runs. And NB in decent hands does have enough DPS to have a smooth clear, so yeah people will take a NB if they know a player is good. That's the whole point. Obviously, there's no reason to bring a NB if you can bring someone good on another class.

Huggelz

Kaide wrote: »

I like the idea of a magicka Nightblade. However, I prefer using melee weapons (swords/daggers) over staves. Is a melee magicka Nightblade build viable end game PvE and PvP? Are magicka Nightblades more rare than stamina Nightblades?

Melee magicka nightblade is the worst spec in the game atm, I've played it since launch and if u want to be viable for PvP just go ranged its alot easier and way better or go magdk as a melee magblade is just a poor man's dk. If your heart is set pm me and ill give you the BiS build for it.

xblackroxe

Artis wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Maybe read the whole context. OP asked why DW on templar is good for pve and bad on NB. So I told him whats the difference and at the end with one sentence also said NBs arent taken for leaderboard runs (bc it just fit into what i was saying). Someone said thats not true (bc he/she didn't actually read what i said) so I gave an in depth analysis why what I said is in fact true and also corrected the part where he/she said Sorcs have no group utility which is wrong.

I'm not here to argue with you. But notice, that he said "good for pve", not "good for number one score".You are very deep into all that elitist mentality right now and see everything through the prism of competitiveness and getting number 1 score, that's my whole point.

But people do take NBs for trial runs and leaderboards runs (weekly or overall but not aiming to be top 1.. well actually only a few guilds are even realistically aiming and trying to get top scores). Most trial groups just want smooth runs. And NB in decent hands does have enough DPS to have a smooth clear, so yeah people will take a NB if they know a player is good. That's the whole point. Obviously, there's no reason to bring a NB if you can bring someone good on another class.

Dude don't make this about something that it isn't. I was explaining something and just btw said that NB isn't taken for leaderboard runs. Somebody said thats not true I explained why it is. Simple, done. I'm the last guy to tell anybody to go reroll something good or kick them from the group. Just chill a bit, don't make this about elitism when it never was.

Meld777

I'm someone who has been playing mNB since the beginning of time (I just rolled a Sorc though and learning to play... cuz number 1 scores and stuff ).

Short answer: You need to invest much more effort for equal outcome than on other classes. But you can run any content smoothly. A Nightblade is not a no-go, and actually the number 1 class by far for solo play.

You have to consider two things. Currently, Stamina is much weaker than Magicka in PvE, and Nightblade is the weakest class in PvE. Can it be decent? Yes. Can it be competitive? Not on Stamina.

There is also another factor: personal skill. How much do you love playing Nightblade? Are you much better at it than most "Sorcs" out there on Sorc? Then you will definitely be competitive.

Someone posted a video of a Nightblade doing 50k+ single target on first boss in Hel Ra. I am also getting similar (and higher) numbers. However, in the runs where I have 50k single target, our Sorcs have 55k. Another interesting factor though is that it's only the Sorcs that are "real" Sorcs - those that play mSorc main for a very long time. Those that switched to Sorc for FotM, usually have lower numbers and similar to what I pull on NB.

Being competitive involves more than just picking the right class. You need to know the content, each encounter, where to place which skill at which moment, where to switch bars/gear, etc. It is possible to make mNB work. The video above proves it. I use a different setup and playstyle; however, I don't share my build/rotation with anyone. I don't know how passionate you are about your Nightblade. But considering you're asking this question, you will probably have a tough time if you wanna compete.